Official Pioneer SC-75/77/79 Thread - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 983 Old 08-06-2013, 08:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Bought a 77 from authorized dealer in my area. He sold it to me for retail with a 10% discount for paying with check. It was installed last week along with outdoor speakers and a sonos box. I haven't spent a great deal of time with it but I do have some first impressions. I upgraded from an SC-05. He installed 4 outdoor speakers. I have 5.1 in the viewing room, the other 4 channels are being used for the outdoor speakers. 2 in Zone 2 and 2 in Zone 3.

Also installed a sonos box for content. Idea is to use icontrolav for turning zones on/off and adjusting volume, and using the sonos app/box for content. All is hardwired.

Pros:
Big upgrade in sound from the SC-05. Sounds better/fuller at all volume levels. Ridicoulous good. Met every expectation in this regard.
MCAAA set-up (or whatever) was easy and very similar to the SC-05 with a few additional options.

Limitations:
1. Still unable to have seaprate video and audio in viewing room. Would be nice to be able to listen to sonos and have ballgame on TV. In order to do it I have to run a hdmi from cable box to tv and bypass AVR. Its a hassle and unsightly.
2. Quirky thing with sonos optical out. I can't use optical and hear the sonos box in zone 2/3. I have to use analog. Optical works fine in viewing room. Lose all the DAC goodness by having to use analog in zone 2/3.
3. Because of the above I thought I could use the AVR to play pandora and media server content when using zones 2/3 (I wanna use the DACs I paid for darn it!). Pandora works OK, I can't get the media server content to play. Says folder empty. This is most likely a user issue but I've spent some time on it and still haven't figured it out. I would consider myself a pretty advanced user. It shouldnt be that hard (any ideas to help would be welcomed.) I can see why the installer sold me on sonos...content via AVR is cluncky at best. Coupled with #2 I'm pretty dissapointed with the multi zone capabilities.
3. icontrolAV recognition of the AVR is intermittent. It may be the AVR needs to be on before you open the app. Gives an network error...AVR not found error. Seems like when I turn the AVR on then open app it works. Have not had time to fully diagnose the issue. Far from flawless...again would not really need it other than zone control.

Summary:
AVR for viewing room is AMAZING. There are limitations for multi zone use. There are current media server/icontrolav complexities that I hope to overcome leaving the only dissapointment #1. Work in process.
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post #2 of 983 Old 08-06-2013, 12:22 PM
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I just got my SC-77 today and I'm in the process of unboxing it. May I suggest the addition of the SC-75 here as well since it holds many similarities to the SC-77 & 79?
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post #3 of 983 Old 08-06-2013, 01:07 PM
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congratulations to both of you...you are the early adopters on these smile.gif

leeford,
on the multizone issue, are you just using B speakers or have a different receiver-amp in the other room & speakers connected to it? you should be able to independently select different sources for the 2 rooms, but it might depend on your specific setup. might want to check the manual again, because how to do different sources is described in it...try pg 82-83.

you can use the front panel buttons or the remote but you have to select each zone's source independently and when in that zone's mode. IOW, have to put the remote into zone 2, zone 3 or zone 4 mode, that's what on pg 83 smile.gif

if you already have done that, probably something in the setup or a restriction on a specific source or signal connection. sources that can be selected for zones are listed on pg 39. you may have to use the SIG SEL button on the remote to force receiver from auto detect to analog. or if speakers are attached to the 77, you may have to switch to speaker B, all that is also described in the same multizone pg's.

but in theory it should work but depends on your setup wink.gif

Steve
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post #4 of 983 Old 08-06-2013, 02:17 PM - Thread Starter
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thx for the thoughts ss!

Have G-1 set up as described on pg 28. All speakers wired to 77. Main reason for upgrade was to go to a 9 channel unit...5 inside...4 outside. Did not want additional amp. Looks like speaker B is N/A to the G-1 set up...only 7.1+Speaker B...not what I have going. The outdoor speakers do work as long as the sonos output is analog and zones 2/3 are on with sonos selected as input.

on pg 39 i now see for zones 2 and 3 "(outputs analog audio..." digital/optical is not listed. frown.gif

i'll try to sigselect to analog for zones 2 and 3..goal now would be to play sonos optical in viewing room, analog to zones 2/3, vs all analog. don't think that is possible..but I'll take a look this evening.

media server content no longer an issue for me....going with sonos for content now that i know zone 2/3 audio signal is analog only. sonos streams music from PC flawlessly.
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post #5 of 983 Old 08-07-2013, 09:23 AM
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Is there a true pure audio analog bypass on these?

Stan
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post #6 of 983 Old 08-07-2013, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gostan View Post

Is there a true pure audio analog bypass on these?

still has Pure Direct as they have had for past 10 yrs. how much digital processing or all of it is turned off is not 100% known but I'd be willing to bet it is pure analog since the SC-09TX displays Analog Direct when you select Pure Direct on an analog source. The SC-68 does the same.

I think Denon/Marantz implement their Pure Direct mode in a different way, shutting off display, video circuitry & other processing but it's not a true analog bypass according to some advanced Denon AVP/5308/5805 owners. there were other steps needed to really bypass everything & get to analog.

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post #7 of 983 Old 08-07-2013, 08:00 PM
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After several hours of moving cords, re-routing speaker wire though my basement, replacing speaker cords that were too short, etc., I finally have the SC-77 up and running. I ran the MCACC and I'm now downloading the firmware update.
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post #8 of 983 Old 08-08-2013, 12:40 PM
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Hi All,

I am moving to Bangalore. India from Denver, Co and am getting a home theater professionally done in my basement ( basements are very uncommon in India. But I am lucky to buy a property with one). Here is the configuration:

LCR - Definitive technology UIW RLS 2
4 surround -speakers Definitive technology UIW RSS 3
Subwoofer - definitive technology SC6000
Screen - Acoustically transparent 165inch screen
Projector - Epson EH TW 8100 Projector (I believe same as 5020 in USA).
50 inch HDMI cables - 2.

In my basement in Denver I have pretty much similar configuration except for cheaper surround speakers and Epson 5010 projector. For the AV receiver I have Yamaha A2000, which I bought in A stock (previous year model then). I am very happy with the receiver and the only issue I had was that the microphone got stuck during setup(someone perhaps stepped on the cable) and the YPAO setup menu always came up during startup. This was resolved by local dealer, who replaced the microphone.

Now the question is what receiver should I choose? The like the latest Yamaha A2030 since I am pretty familiar with it from previous model. The guys who is doing my basement theater etc is really pushing for Marantz SR7007. I went to local best buy and the guy was suggesting not to use Marantz with a long HDMI cable and Projector. He theory was that Marantz video processor will burn out. His recommendation was Pioneer SC-75. The home theater guy in Bangalore was saying that SC-75 is available but SC-77 is going to be released soon and the same price as A2030. But he was saying that the Pioneer service is very poor in India and hence really pushing for Marantz. Any thoughts?
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post #9 of 983 Old 08-08-2013, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venithekat View Post

Hi All,

I am moving to Bangalore. India from Denver, Co and am getting a home theater professionally done in my basement ( basements are very uncommon in India. But I am lucky to buy a property with one). Here is the configuration:

LCR - Definitive technology UIW RLS 2
4 surround -speakers Definitive technology UIW RSS 3
Subwoofer - definitive technology SC6000
Screen - Acoustically transparent 165inch screen
Projector - Epson EH TW 8100 Projector (I believe same as 5020 in USA).
50 inch HDMI cables - 2.

In my basement in Denver I have pretty much similar configuration except for cheaper surround speakers and Epson 5010 projector. For the AV receiver I have Yamaha A2000, which I bought in A stock (previous year model then). I am very happy with the receiver and the only issue I had was that the microphone got stuck during setup(someone perhaps stepped on the cable) and the YPAO setup menu always came up during startup. This was resolved by local dealer, who replaced the microphone.

Now the question is what receiver should I choose? The like the latest Yamaha A2030 since I am pretty familiar with it from previous model. The guys who is doing my basement theater etc is really pushing for Marantz SR7007. I went to local best buy and the guy was suggesting not to use Marantz with a long HDMI cable and Projector. He theory was that Marantz video processor will burn out. His recommendation was Pioneer SC-75. The home theater guy in Bangalore was saying that SC-75 is available but SC-77 is going to be released soon and the same price as A2030. But he was saying that the Pioneer service is very poor in India and hence really pushing for Marantz. Any thoughts?
I would do some research as to what brands have the best support in the area your moving to because electronics can and will fail at some point.
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post #10 of 983 Old 08-09-2013, 12:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venithekat View Post

Hi All,

I am moving to Bangalore. India from Denver, Co and am getting a home theater professionally done in my basement ( basements are very uncommon in India. But I am lucky to buy a property with one). Here is the configuration:

LCR - Definitive technology UIW RLS 2
4 surround -speakers Definitive technology UIW RSS 3
Subwoofer - definitive technology SC6000
Screen - Acoustically transparent 165inch screen
Projector - Epson EH TW 8100 Projector (I believe same as 5020 in USA).
50 inch HDMI cables - 2.

In my basement in Denver I have pretty much similar configuration except for cheaper surround speakers and Epson 5010 projector. For the AV receiver I have Yamaha A2000, which I bought in A stock (previous year model then). I am very happy with the receiver and the only issue I had was that the microphone got stuck during setup(someone perhaps stepped on the cable) and the YPAO setup menu always came up during startup. This was resolved by local dealer, who replaced the microphone.

Now the question is what receiver should I choose? The like the latest Yamaha A2030 since I am pretty familiar with it from previous model. The guys who is doing my basement theater etc is really pushing for Marantz SR7007. I went to local best buy and the guy was suggesting not to use Marantz with a long HDMI cable and Projector. He theory was that Marantz video processor will burn out. His recommendation was Pioneer SC-75. The home theater guy in Bangalore was saying that SC-75 is available but SC-77 is going to be released soon and the same price as A2030. But he was saying that the Pioneer service is very poor in India and hence really pushing for Marantz. Any thoughts?

hi all of u,
Pioneer lxsc 57 sc 77 sc 87 r 2013 models is not yet available in india lxsc 75 is 2011 model dont ask for 75 tell them 57 bcoz in india models r from europe and in US they call it sc75 ,77,97
.pioneer lxsc 56, 76 ,86 is there right now ,all three 2012 model r available and dont listen that guy that service is bad infact ur setup is in banglore there r pioneer reputed service: centers in banglore .even im waiting for pioneer lxsc 77.buy from an authorized center ,many in banglore u can get demo of sc 86 .most home theater shops in india dont sell Pioneer and r not aware about elite series and how good they r so they will say any crap.
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post #11 of 983 Old 08-09-2013, 04:06 AM
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Yes you can IF you use component video for that option. Use HDMI when you just watching cable but if you want audio and video to be different , use component into the receiver and then use the analog of your Sonos Connect into that same input and your golden. Or you could assign the Digital coax or Optical to the input you assign the component video input to and do it that way.
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post #12 of 983 Old 08-09-2013, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venithekat View Post

I went to local best buy and the guy was suggesting not to use Marantz with a long HDMI cable and Projector. He theory was that Marantz video processor will burn out.

It's been a while since I've heard anything that ridiculous out of Best Buy, but I have heard ridiculous things from them before. I'd be really tempted to ask him if elevating the Marantz above the projector would help (so the video processor in the Marantz wouldn't have to push the electrons uphill to the projector). That's not to say that there couldn't be other reasons for problems with the video processor in the Marantz. I haven't researched that aspect of them.

My research led me to the conclusion that the reviewers who noted a difference placed the sound quality of the Pioneer and Yamaha receivers slightly above those of Marantz, Onkyo, etc. I wanted some of the THX features so I went with the Pioneer. I also had a bad experience with trying to help a friend setup a lower end Yamaha several years ago that slightly soured me on the brand. The Class D technology in the Pioneer is also what got me interested in looking for a replacement for my 10 year old Sony. It also has Class D amps and I liked it enough that I wasn't very excited about taking a step back to Class A/B.
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post #13 of 983 Old 08-09-2013, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venithekat View Post

I went to local best buy and the guy was suggesting not to use Marantz with a long HDMI cable and Projector. He theory was that Marantz video processor will burn out.

utter nonsense tongue.gif
but what can you expect from Best Buy? rolleyes.gif

for sure, get something that will be supported in India but don't rely on BB blue shirts for technical knowledge.

Steve
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post #14 of 983 Old 08-09-2013, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
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GOT SEPARATE AUDIO/VIDEOTO WORK...
Thx Mantis!

Tivo Input Setup
Audio - OPT 1 (Sonos)
Video - HDMI -1

sisselect to "Digital" and Good to go!

Video From HDMI 1 (Tivo)
Audio from OPT -1 (Sonos)

Niiiiice.
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post #15 of 983 Old 08-09-2013, 12:28 PM
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I have an SC-79 that I am selling. Listed in the classified section on AVS if interested. Brand new in box straight from the factory. Free shipping to anywhere in the USA with my asking price. Price in the ad -- do not want to break any rules by listing it here -- not sure if I would be. Feel free to PM me anytime. Cheers.
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post #16 of 983 Old 08-09-2013, 03:35 PM
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someone just asked me if I had the receipt and full warranty. I am NOT a dealer, just someone who bought it and is having second thoughts. I am more than willing to include a copy of the original purchase receipt so that you can use it if need be. Not sure if that would help, but it might. Of course I would have to block out my credit card number.
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post #17 of 983 Old 08-12-2013, 12:22 PM
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Just lowered the price on my new in box SC-79 in the classified section here on AVS. If it does not sell at this price, I guess I will just keep it. Just FYI.
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post #18 of 983 Old 08-12-2013, 11:24 PM
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I've spent some more time listening to the SC-77 and exploring it's functions. The first time I ran MCACC I did the full auto and let it pick the speaker size. It set all of my 5 satellite speakers to "large". That was also recommended by the speaker manufacturer, but they start dropping off quite a bit around 60 hz, so I prefer to set them to small. MCACC set the subwoofer channel to +5dB. So I turned up the volume controls on the subs to get them 5dB higher (using a SPL meter) before I ran it again. Running MCACC again retaining the small speaker size then resulted in the subwoofer channel being set to +7dB, which really surprised me. I'm setting the microphone on top of a cardboard box on the couch to get it near ear level, and I'm wondering if the box may be resonating enough to throw off the readings for the subwoofer.

One thing I'm finding interesting is the "Auto Sound Retriever" function. It certainly brings Pandora radio to life. Pioneer explains it as: "The Auto Sound Retriever feature employs DSP technology to restore sound pressure and smooth jagged arti- facts left over after compression." Restore sound pressure and smooth jagged artifacts? PFM?

I do really like using iControlAV on the iPad to access and control the various functions on the SC-77, particularly the Sound Explorer options. I'm not quite sure what the point of the view with the random dropping and bursting bubbles is though, other than to be cute. The list view makes a whole lot more sense to me than even the organized bubble view.
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post #19 of 983 Old 08-13-2013, 04:25 AM
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Well I had a quite different experience last night at best buy. The most knowledgable home theater guy almost ever including high end stores. We went through the differences between the 77 and the Denon 4520. I was greatly impressed by him. I came an ace of buying the Denon.
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post #20 of 983 Old 08-13-2013, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
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Well I had a quite different experience last night at best buy. The most knowledgable home theater guy almost ever including high end stores. We went through the differences between the 77 and the Denon 4520. I was greatly impressed by him. I came an ace of buying the Denon.
What was the swaying point?
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post #21 of 983 Old 08-13-2013, 10:32 AM
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What was the swaying point?

+1 I'd be interested in reading that too smile.gif

Steve
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post #22 of 983 Old 08-13-2013, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
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What was the swaying point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

+1 I'd be interested in reading that too smile.gif

+1 more.
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post #23 of 983 Old 08-13-2013, 01:04 PM
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+1
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post #24 of 983 Old 08-13-2013, 03:44 PM
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I just got the SC-77, I'll give it a couple of days but I think I should of bought separates. I sold my Onkyo 5009 mistake. Sound is not warm and I have to ramp the volume up higher. If some one is looking for one pm me ,give you a deal or trade for a onkyo 5509 preamp.
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post #25 of 983 Old 08-13-2013, 11:04 PM
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I just got the SC-77, I'll give it a couple of days but I think I should of bought separates. I sold my Onkyo 5009 mistake. Sound is not warm and I have to ramp the volume up higher. If some one is looking for one pm me ,give you a deal or trade for a onkyo 5509 preamp.

Mine didn't sound particularly warm after the first MCACC run either. I ran it again a couple of days after I got it, with all of my satellites set to small (and with MCACC set to retain the speaker size settings). After that it sounded warmer. There was a review on the SC-68 that said that it had a harsh high end, but that started to smooth out at the end of their testing. Also try turning on the Auto Sound Retriever function if you are playing back anything with lossy compression. I can't compare to the Onkyo or separates though.
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post #26 of 983 Old 08-15-2013, 06:49 PM
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+1 I'd be interested in reading that too smile.gif

Well, for one $300 bucks. Also I've always been partial to Pioneer Elite. I like the sound and I'm intimately familiar with MCACC. The SC07 has been outstanding. If you guys told me you didn't like yours, I'll change. I have time yet!
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post #27 of 983 Old 08-15-2013, 06:56 PM
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Mine didn't sound particularly warm after the first MCACC run either. I ran it again a couple of days after I got it, with all of my satellites set to small (and with MCACC set to retain the speaker size settings). After that it sounded warmer. There was a review on the SC-68 that said that it had a harsh high end, but that started to smooth out at the end of their testing. Also try turning on the Auto Sound Retriever function if you are playing back anything with lossy compression. I can't compare to the Onkyo or separates though.

Pioneer has always endeared me because of its particularly clean sound. Some describe that as not warm. You can make a Pioneer sound warm by properly using the MCACC. Some folks just like a warm sound. To me it colors the music and I prefer the sound of the Pioneer. On the other hand, in the last 5 years, I have also been able to tune a Denon to sound less warm, more like a Pioneer. I really think these two are the best receivers on the market. I won't buy a Yamadog. Reminds me of their motorcycles, trumpets, and other endeavors that are good but not great.
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post #28 of 983 Old 08-15-2013, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
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Pioneer has always endeared me because of its particularly clean sound. Some describe that as not warm. You can make a Pioneer sound warm by properly using the MCACC. Some folks just like a warm sound. To me it colors the music and I prefer the sound of the Pioneer. On the other hand, in the last 5 years, I have also been able to tune a Denon to sound less warm, more like a Pioneer. I really think these two are the best receivers on the market. I won't buy a Yamadog. Reminds me of their motorcycles, trumpets, and other endeavors that are good but not great.

What I'm really hoping to do with my system is replicate as closely as possible what the sound engineer heard in the mixing room/theater, etc. when the recording was made. I want my system to sound as much like the studio monitor system as possible, whether that be cold, warm, or in-between. Secondly, I enjoy being able to discern the various individual sounds, elements, and instruments in music. Hearing a subtle detail that I've never noticed before is a magic moment. However, I don't particularly enjoy overly harsh bright sound, and I have been amazed in the past just how much different various audio components that have a supposedly flat frequency response can sound in this respect.

Being a long time user of MCACC, what are your thoughts on Pioneer's Auto Sound Retriever?

I'm also curious if your apparent disdain for Yamaha is based on more on sound quality, or other aspects of their audio equipment (ease of installation, setup, etc.). My listening tests prior to buying the Pioneer (which were by no means fair or scientific) put the Yamaha in a very close second place to the Pioneer, with Denon and Marantz as the other contenders. Also the reviews I read that expressed a preference between those 4 brands based solely on sound quality placed the Yamaha and Pioneer above the other two. I helped a friend set up a Yamaha receiver about 5-10 years ago, and found difficulties with making and retaining speaker/channel level settings. I also was not impressed with the analog potentiometer tone controls.
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post #29 of 983 Old 08-15-2013, 08:26 PM
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It is impossible to duplicate what sound engineers heard in the studio. They make adjustment after everything is recorded to take into consideration of public media playback. What you do want is a system that can reproduce the detail and dynamic range very well. The piano, cymbals and kick drum are a good indicators of the fidelity of the system. Depending on the source, the sound retrieve feature has a role in improving the overall SQ of a source. The two features that I do not use a lot are pure direct and direct since most rooms are not perfect and these mode will not get me a better sound. Some people feel MCACC mask some of the sound but, this is volume dependent and a simple turn of the dial is all that is needed IMHO.

When people talk about warm sound they are talking about coloration by the avr or distortion. I own tube and SS gear and they sound very similar at low and moderate volumes. The warmer sound from the tube gear is more noticeable at higher volume. The thing I like about tube gear is the vacuum tubes glowing, not that is pretty cool, lol.smile.gif

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post #30 of 983 Old 08-15-2013, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derrickdj1 View Post

It is impossible to duplicate what sound engineers heard in the studio.

Regardless of how possible that is, I do consider accurate reproduction of the source material to be the purpose of all audio and video equipment. I don't buy into the just adjust everything to where ever I think it sounds and looks good mentality.
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