Krell Foundation Owners Thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 2614 Old 12-16-2013, 07:50 AM
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I always wondered why there wasn't much activity in here. I guess it was the original thread title. That wasn't my title by the way. I would never go as far as calling this set the next Death Star. No disrespect to the thread starter at all. I guess I am just not that bold. Lol opens up to much for debate.
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post #272 of 2614 Old 12-16-2013, 07:59 AM
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Yes Mark please do. Thanks so much
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post #273 of 2614 Old 12-16-2013, 08:00 AM
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I hate to admit it but The Bland was correct in his analysis of the Foundation. I have never heard a Krell processor that I liked. They sound too steely and shrill. I own a Krell KAV-500 amplifier. Imagine me paying 16k for the price of its then matching Dolby Prologic Home Theater Standard. eek.gifeek.gif
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post #274 of 2614 Old 12-16-2013, 08:04 AM
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Yes Mark please do. Thanks so much

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post #275 of 2614 Old 12-16-2013, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by gbaby View Post

I hate to admit it but The Bland was correct in his analysis of the Foundation. I have never heard a Krell processor that I liked. They sound too steely and shrill. I own a Krell KAV-500 amplifier. Imagine me paying 16k for the price of its then matching Dolby Prologic Home Theater Standard. eek.gifeek.gif

Have you heard the Foundation? I bet if you wait till May to get Kals opinion you might change your mind about all Krell processors sounding shrill. I think you need to go listen to it. It will surprise you.

You need to possibly read some of the Foundation reviews. It is very smooth sounding. If it was shrill trust me I would hate it.
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post #276 of 2614 Old 12-16-2013, 11:03 AM
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Have you heard the Foundation? I bet if you wait till May to get Kals opinion you might change your mind about all Krell processors sounding shrill. I think you need to go listen to it. It will surprise you.

You need to possibly read some of the Foundation reviews. It is very smooth sounding. If it was shrill trust me I would hate it.

No, I have not heard the Foundation. I have heard the Evolution, and I was not impressed. Big sound, but..... In any event, perhaps the Foundation is an improved sound over their past processors. I believe that Krell was recently purchased by another company so things may have changed.
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post #277 of 2614 Old 12-16-2013, 11:55 AM
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How long does it take to run the ARES calibration?
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post #278 of 2614 Old 12-16-2013, 01:34 PM
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Well, these days, You can't hear everything you want and I find that most owners of equipment as so biased - they all rave about their equipment - and that tells you nothing about its true performance.

Really, most pre/pros have EQ. I would bet my ADA Mach IV B is similar to the Foundation. It has rudimentary PEQ on board and all the surround modes yours has - but no room correction which is finally coming to the forefront of 'must have' technology in your theater. I wish my ADA had Neo X or Auro upgradability - but it won't. I didn't see that on the Foundation either. Being able to output more than 8 channels is very important with Neo X and Auro coming to the high end.
The Foundation costs about the same as the ADA and it appears that $6500 is the new normal for entry level SSPs. The ADA acquits itself well but it's EQ is a bit lacking comparatively but it's stable and really doesn't require software updates (a bonus - I want everything to work properly when I drop that kind of coin).

Listening to a piece is only important and significant if it is in your own room and with your equipment. Too many factors at trade shows in terms of the room, acoustical treatments, etc are factors in what you hear. That said, listening to them on site should give some sort of inkling of what to expect (but not always). I travel to many CEDIAs just to see and hear as much as I can before I buy. But these days, listening to a high end piece in your residence is pretty difficult.

This entry level Krell looks like a entry level SSP to me with nothing special on board (it's entry level for Krell). No DTS NEO X, no 4K, no mention of Auro and I don't think it can output more than 8 channels via HDMI 1.4a. I see it needs software updates for some bugs and a lot of promised future upgrades (e.g. 4K). Be wary of that...

But back to listening before you buy. I am currently auditioning a pair of Quested Loudspeakers for my theater. I had to call over to the UK to help arrange shipment for trial with my dealer. I'll have a pair for 2-3 weeks and be able to see how they do in my environment with my amps. I am also looking into Pro Audio Technology and Seatons and will likely have all in my room at some point to audition before I choose. I've eliminated many speakers based on what I've read and not having heard many... It's the only way. Fortunately, I can send these back.

I am also trying out a Trinnov MC room correction piece and have arranged for that to be on site as well. In fact, the USA rep for Trinnov will EQ in these Quested speakers remotely through the device so I get the best, most accurate listening session with them. It is a PITA as I have to pay Trinnov by the hour for the set up, but how else do you know? I do not own the Trinnov yet, but Trinnov will use the device to EQ my current set up so I can to A/B what it is doing (that said, I traveled to a couple of CEDIAs to hear it and am already sold on it - but why not hear it in my room)?

So, back to your, "you haven't heard it" remarks. I think that is somewhat of a cop out as then the only ones who could really comment on it are the folks that have already spent the $6500 and likely think highly of their purchase and are very biased - is there any owner in this thrad who thinks it's just mediocre? Some reviewers are better than others but, like you said, 'you haven't [personally] heard it'. I find that almost impossible to put into practice when shopping. So, you look at history of the company, components, features and price point. The Foundation appears to be a pretty standard SSP set up and likely preforms similarly to the ADA, McIntosh, Anthem, etc... and that's a pretty good (but I worry about software updates needed to fix bugs on a SSP - what they do is pretty simple). I've owned many, many high end pieces of equipment over the years and there are few world beaters. You, generally, get what you pay for and the company's history says a lot.

My Home Theater of the Month- Le Petit Trianon

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #279 of 2614 Old 12-16-2013, 02:55 PM
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You call most people biased and then praise what you own in comparison to something you haven't seen/heard.

I don't care about more than 7.1, because that is all I am likely to have for the foreseeable future. There are a few upgrades in the works, which should improve the Foundation and make it more appealing to more people. Maybe we will find out more from CES next month.

I'll be trying one in my own system very soon. It will be on loan, so I don't have to buy it and then 'pretend' it was worth the money. If it isn't better than what I already own I'll quite happily admit, as it will save me money not to buy one and confirm how good my current Processor is in comparison to one at around 2.5 times the price.

At certain points over the last 18 years I've avoided 4 Manufacturer's based on their reputation for quality, reliability and support of their Home Cinema products, to then try and buy one of their products after being well reviewed and highly praised by numerous people. The past does not always dictate the present or the future, as I have found out for myself.
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post #280 of 2614 Old 12-16-2013, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Well, these days, You can't hear everything you want and I find that most owners of equipment as so biased - they all rave about their equipment - and that tells you nothing about its true performance.

Really, most pre/pros have EQ. I would bet my ADA Mach IV B is similar to the Foundation. It has rudimentary PEQ on board and all the surround modes yours has - but no room correction which is finally coming to the forefront of 'must have' technology in your theater. I wish my ADA had Neo X or Auro upgradability - but it won't. I didn't see that on the Foundation either. Being able to output more than 8 channels is very important with Neo X and Auro coming to the high end.
The Foundation costs about the same as the ADA and it appears that $6500 is the new normal for entry level SSPs. The ADA acquits itself well but it's EQ is a bit lacking comparatively but it's stable and really doesn't require software updates (a bonus - I want everything to work properly when I drop that kind of coin).

Listening to a piece is only important and significant if it is in your own room and with your equipment. Too many factors at trade shows in terms of the room, acoustical treatments, etc are factors in what you hear. That said, listening to them on site should give some sort of inkling of what to expect (but not always). I travel to many CEDIAs just to see and hear as much as I can before I buy. But these days, listening to a high end piece in your residence is pretty difficult.

This entry level Krell looks like a entry level SSP to me with nothing special on board (it's entry level for Krell). No DTS NEO X, no 4K, no mention of Auro and I don't think it can output more than 8 channels via HDMI 1.4a. I see it needs software updates for some bugs and a lot of promised future upgrades (e.g. 4K). Be wary of that...

But back to listening before you buy. I am currently auditioning a pair of Quested Loudspeakers for my theater. I had to call over to the UK to help arrange shipment for trial with my dealer. I'll have a pair for 2-3 weeks and be able to see how they do in my environment with my amps. I am also looking into Pro Audio Technology and Seatons and will likely have all in my room at some point to audition before I choose. I've eliminated many speakers based on what I've read and not having heard many... It's the only way. Fortunately, I can send these back.

I am also trying out a Trinnov MC room correction piece and have arranged for that to be on site as well. In fact, the USA rep for Trinnov will EQ in these Quested speakers remotely through the device so I get the best, most accurate listening session with them. It is a PITA as I have to pay Trinnov by the hour for the set up, but how else do you know? I do not own the Trinnov yet, but Trinnov will use the device to EQ my current set up so I can to A/B what it is doing (that said, I traveled to a couple of CEDIAs to hear it and am already sold on it - but why not hear it in my room)?

So, back to your, "you haven't heard it" remarks. I think that is somewhat of a cop out as then the only ones who could really comment on it are the folks that have already spent the $6500 and likely think highly of their purchase and are very biased - is there any owner in this thrad who thinks it's just mediocre? Some reviewers are better than others but, like you said, 'you haven't [personally] heard it'. I find that almost impossible to put into practice when shopping. So, you look at history of the company, components, features and price point. The Foundation appears to be a pretty standard SSP set up and likely preforms similarly to the ADA, McIntosh, Anthem, etc... and that's a pretty good (but I worry about software updates needed to fix bugs on a SSP - what they do is pretty simple). I've owned many, many high end pieces of equipment over the years and there are few world beaters. You, generally, get what you pay for and the company's history says a lot.

I am in my car got to be brief. I am harder on products that are supposed to be better because of name or price.

You are entitled to your opinion. It doesn't sway me one bit. Look I had to sell mine. If it wasn't everything I thought it was I wouldn't go back for more. I could wash my hands of it and get out and look elsewhere.
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post #281 of 2614 Old 12-16-2013, 03:13 PM
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Also about the nothing special on board. I would think the Shark dac and all the wima caps are a little special. Only processor I know of with the top shark dac in it. This counts for quality not quantity.

I have owned Ada before. The rca connector pulled off the back. All of them were very cheap feeling. It sounded ok but to plain looking for my tastes.
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post #282 of 2614 Old 12-16-2013, 06:16 PM
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I like "thebland" have owned a Casablanca III and a Halcro SSP200 and 220. Unfortunatley Casablanca could never get their act together in time regarding HDMI and Halcro choose to leave the county. At that point I decided not to spend over 10k again for a prepro and purchased an Integra DHC 80.1. For the money it was a bargain as it did movies well, and then I purchased the 80.3. I never liked the 2 channel capabilities of the Integra although the 80.3 was much better than the 80.1. As a result I set up a dedicated 2 channel room instead. For movies the 80.1 and 80.3 were good although not as refined as the Halcro but very acceptable.

As far a Krell, I never liked the Krell processors and agree with many of the reviews, as they sounded a little shrill (digital) to me as well and lacked the warmth that I like. With all of that, the Foundation for movies has been night/day from the 80.3 and even better than the Halcros I have had. There is so much more detail in the front end and especially in the surrounds that I have never heard before.The bass is tighter, more dynamic and the voices are so much clearer. Overall, I am very pleased with the Foundation for movies.

The Foundation for 2 channel has been impressive as well, but not as warn as the Halcro and especially the Casablanca with extreme dacs. For the price point I think the Foundation has hit the mark, especially the street price. The Foundation for the price is a winner.

Just my 2 cents.
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post #283 of 2614 Old 12-16-2013, 10:35 PM
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Interesting conversations.

Folks,
My unit arrived safely today. Thankful for the same. It is always a concern if UPS/Fedex is going to mess up. I hooked up the unit and sounds good so far. Have not had a chance to do any critical listening and will take at least a couple of weeks for me to make any meaningful comment on sound quality so please bear with me. I did get thru the speaker and eq setup and I chose 250Hz. I ran into minor issues with controlling the unit with the web server using a Windows 8 Ultrabook. I was able to access the server as the UI showed up but I could not change any controls. I was using IE. What is the recommended browser OS that has a high success rate? I have an Android tablet and also another Win7 machine. Which do you recommend? I can tell you right away, that going through the setup without the OSD and the UI was a big pain. Also, the HDMI switching (between Oppo bluray player and dish receiver) is just normal, nothing spectacular. It maybe a little bit faster. Again, too early for me to tell and I will post real latencies when I try out more tests. I have a tuner on my Integra DHC 80.3 and had it in all other processors I have owned (Intergras, Lexicons, Anthems etc). Where is the FM/AM tuner rolleyes.gif? Did I just say a bad word smile.gif.
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post #284 of 2614 Old 12-16-2013, 10:42 PM
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jmcomp124 I threw in my 2 cents can't wait to hear yours
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post #285 of 2614 Old 12-16-2013, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by badbenzz View Post

jmcomp124 I threw in my 2 cents can't wait to hear yours
Hi Larry,
Solid unit so far. No negatives in terms of sound quality. It will be at least a couple of weeks before I can do any justice in listening and comment on sound quality. I still have the Integra DHC 80.3 that is pro calibrated. If it was 8 yrs ago I would have done an A/B this week, but I have too many other commitments at work that take higher priority. Seriously been at least 12 hr work days and I am reaching middle age smile.gif.
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post #286 of 2614 Old 12-16-2013, 11:27 PM
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There it is smile.gif.
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post #287 of 2614 Old 12-17-2013, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by ProAudioSlave View Post

How long does it take to run the ARES calibration?

Minutes that's it
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post #288 of 2614 Old 12-17-2013, 05:18 AM
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I had a problem with my windows 8 machine also. Use the android tablet. Put the web address into the browser. My phone actually saved it as an app when I book marked it. This was very cool.
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post #289 of 2614 Old 12-17-2013, 05:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MV_Cinema View Post

Just a note...i don't know how a brand like Krell offers a set such as Krell Foundation + S-1500 and the color of the devices is different.

Check the photo and please correct me if i am wrong! They didn't even bother to provide 2 perfect matching units mad.gif



When i say the color, i say the BLACK is different, i am not referring to the silver center of the Foundation.

How about this, my foundation and power amp.biggrin.gif

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post #290 of 2614 Old 12-17-2013, 05:23 AM
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Jmcomp I hope you like it. With two channel music the Foundation is a little harder to setup. Only because of the manual. With two channel on go into your menu and toggle eq on and off. To make it stick you need to highlight the on. Then push up button to where it says off. Then press enter. Then retreat out of the menu.
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post #291 of 2614 Old 12-17-2013, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by badbenzz View Post

I like "thebland" have owned a Casablanca III and a Halcro SSP200 and 220. Unfortunatley Casablanca could never get their act together in time regarding HDMI and Halcro choose to leave the county. At that point I decided not to spend over 10k again for a prepro and purchased an Integra DHC 80.1. For the money it was a bargain as it did movies well, and then I purchased the 80.3. I never liked the 2 channel capabilities of the Integra although the 80.3 was much better than the 80.1. As a result I set up a dedicated 2 channel room instead. For movies the 80.1 and 80.3 were good although not as refined as the Halcro but very acceptable.

As far a Krell, I never liked the Krell processors and agree with many of the reviews, as they sounded a little shrill (digital) to me as well and lacked the warmth that I like. With all of that, the Foundation for movies has been night/day from the 80.3 and even better than the Halcros I have had. There is so much more detail in the front end and especially in the surrounds that I have never heard before.The bass is tighter, more dynamic and the voices are so much clearer. Overall, I am very pleased with the Foundation for movies.

The Foundation for 2 channel has been impressive as well, but not as warn as the Halcro and especially the Casablanca with extreme dacs. For the price point I think the Foundation has hit the mark, especially the street price. The Foundation for the price is a winner.

Just my 2 cents.

Make sure you experiment with the eq for two channel music. You can save 3 memories. Make sure you save one without eq. And try that with two channel music. To me it was night and day. This is with the hdmi input. For two channel analog use analog/preamp mode. I was more impressed with using the Foundation dacs over even the mighty oppo 105. More depth to the soundstage.
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post #292 of 2614 Old 12-17-2013, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhale64L7 View Post

Make sure you experiment with the eq for two channel music. You can save 3 memories. Make sure you save one without eq. And try that with two channel music. To me it was night and day. This is with the hdmi input. For two channel analog use analog/preamp mode. I was more impressed with using the Foundation dacs over even the mighty oppo 105. More depth to the soundstage.
Did you like it with eq or without for 2-ch music?
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post #293 of 2614 Old 12-17-2013, 06:09 PM
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Does anyone know if there is a low-pass filter for the .1 LFE when you choose full-range plus sub? The manual says that it sends low frequencies, but from what frequency down? I prefer frequencies above 200, not set to the sub. I can see why this maybe beneficial. If you had 2 subs and then use the full-range plus sub mode, it will be like in effect there are 4 subs that even responses out. The more the subs the better. Co-located they will reinforce due to coupling, Not co-located, they will even out responses.
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post #294 of 2614 Old 12-18-2013, 01:01 AM
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Folks,
How do I get the stereo mode with FL+FR and Subwoofer where the FL and FR crossovers are engaged (mine is at 40Hz) redirected bass goes to the subwoofer for 2 ch sources?

The Stereo plus sub is not it and sounded veiled.
Stereo mode is not it as it is just FL and FR

DTS NEO6: Music sounded pretty good for 2 ch sources.
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post #295 of 2614 Old 12-18-2013, 03:03 AM
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Did you like it with eq or without for 2-ch music?

Without
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post #296 of 2614 Old 12-18-2013, 04:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcomp124 View Post

Folks,
How do I get the stereo mode with FL+FR and Subwoofer where the FL and FR crossovers are engaged (mine is at 40Hz) redirected bass goes to the subwoofer for 2 ch sources?

The Stereo plus sub is not it and sounded veiled.
Stereo mode is not it as it is just FL and FR

DTS NEO6: Music sounded pretty good for 2 ch sources.

Call Krell on that one. I only tried it once for a few minutes. This is where a well written manual would help alot. But this seems to be the norm nowadays.
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post #297 of 2614 Old 12-18-2013, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badbenzz View Post

I like "thebland" have owned a Casablanca III and a Halcro SSP200 and 220. Unfortunatley Casablanca could never get their act together in time regarding HDMI and Halcro choose to leave the county. At that point I decided not to spend over 10k again for a prepro and purchased an Integra DHC 80.1. For the money it was a bargain as it did movies well, and then I purchased the 80.3. I never liked the 2 channel capabilities of the Integra although the 80.3 was much better than the 80.1. As a result I set up a dedicated 2 channel room instead. For movies the 80.1 and 80.3 were good although not as refined as the Halcro but very acceptable.

As far a Krell, I never liked the Krell processors and agree with many of the reviews, as they sounded a little shrill (digital) to me as well and lacked the warmth that I like. With all of that, the Foundation for movies has been night/day from the 80.3 and even better than the Halcros I have had. There is so much more detail in the front end and especially in the surrounds that I have never heard before.The bass is tighter, more dynamic and the voices are so much clearer. Overall, I am very pleased with the Foundation for movies.

The Foundation for 2 channel has been impressive as well, but not as warn as the Halcro and especially the Casablanca with extreme dacs. For the price point I think the Foundation has hit the mark, especially the street price. The Foundation for the price is a winner.

Just my 2 cents.

Your comments sound like an honest and accurate assessment to me.
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post #298 of 2614 Old 12-18-2013, 03:03 PM
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The title still is misleading "Krell Foundation + Krell S-1500 Owners Thread". Really, I think it should be changed to "Krell Foundation Owners Thread" or someone please suggest a more matching name. I have a bunch of things I want to post after talking to Bill from Krell this morning but I don't want it lost in a thread where Foundation owners sparsely visit. Please address this ASAP.
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post #299 of 2614 Old 12-18-2013, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

done
Mark, Please see my most recent request regarding title. Thanks.
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post #300 of 2614 Old 12-18-2013, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by jmcomp124 View Post

Mark, Please see my most recent request regarding title. Thanks.
i agree. It should be Foundation owners thread. I for one would appreciate all the info and advice on setup etc.
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