Krell Foundation Owners Thread - Page 43 - AVS Forum
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post #1261 of 2132 Old 04-13-2014, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by jsetliff View Post

Anyone doing FLAC file streaming from their OPPO 95 or 105 to the Krell via HDMI? Display on Krell showing Full Range + Sub. Is my only option to have the Oppo perform the DAC? No way to send bitstream to Krell in this case? (Maybe something in Oppo setup? HDMI in Oppo already set to Bitstream) If it can't send bitstream in this case, maybe better to use the XLR Balanced inputs from Oppo to Krell for this. I have the Oppo 95, but wondering if 105 users are able to send bitstream thru HDMI from Oppo when playing network music files.

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Originally Posted by rhale64L7 View Post

You should have all options available for bitstream hdmi into Foundation. I used to listen to stereo all the time. If it is in 5.1 the Foundation will pick that up. I have the 105 the 95 is the same I think in this regard. I used hdmi for everything. The dac implementation in the Foundation sounded superior to me. More bass punch and superior depth of soundstage.
I don't stream from my Oppo but do stream from a Qsonix to the Foundation in WAV and FLAC with no issues. I love using Neo6:music for my FLAC files. Sounds amazing through the Foundation.
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post #1262 of 2132 Old 04-15-2014, 01:09 AM
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Hi Guys,

New foundation owner here. I'm having problems performing the software update via network. My current firmware is v1.08. I successfully check and commence the update process via Ethernet and the processor appears to successfully update the numerous files required. It finally gets to reporting "webpages.inf 100%" and then sits there. At this point, I have tried pressing enter, turning the power off via the front panel switch, and unplugging power completely all with a lack of success. When I check the firmware it still reports v1.08 and again finds an available update.

Am I missing something here -is there something else that I should be doing? I've so far wasted a good 2-3 hrs trying to get this to work to no avail and would really appreciate it if someone could please point me in the right direction.

Thanks!
Sean
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post #1263 of 2132 Old 04-15-2014, 02:54 AM
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Originally Posted by seanoo View Post

Hi Guys,

New foundation owner here. I'm having problems performing the software update via network. My current firmware is v1.08. I successfully check and commence the update process via Ethernet and the processor appears to successfully update the numerous files required. It finally gets to reporting "webpages.inf 100%" and then sits there. At this point, I have tried pressing enter, turning the power off via the front panel switch, and unplugging power completely all with a lack of success. When I check the firmware it still reports v1.08 and again finds an available update.

Am I missing something here -is there something else that I should be doing? I've so far wasted a good 2-3 hrs trying to get this to work to no avail and would really appreciate it if someone could please point me in the right direction.

Thanks!
Sean

Call Krell you cant update from that old a version to the new version. They have to send it to you. Or maybe someone in here can send it to you.
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post #1264 of 2132 Old 04-15-2014, 04:22 AM
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Thanks Ron. If anyone does have a copy of later firmware I'd sincerely appreciate it if you could PM me a copy. Thanks Sean
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post #1265 of 2132 Old 04-15-2014, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanoo View Post

Thanks Ron. I'm located in Australia so will drop them an email. If anyone does have a copy of later firmware I'd sincerely appreciate it if you could PM me a copy. Thanks Sean
Hi Sean, Have you tried your optical and coax inputs? If you have a model with that old firmware you might have one of the older models that might need to go back to Krell for repair. Models from before I think Sept '13 has that issue.
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post #1266 of 2132 Old 04-15-2014, 06:10 AM
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Yes, unfortunately, I have the same issue with digital coax -haven't tried optical. This is going to be a real pain as I purchased from a fellow AVS member and am unsure if the warranty is transferable
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post #1267 of 2132 Old 04-15-2014, 09:19 AM
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Great timely response from Krell regarding the software update issues. Now have the required software in hand.
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post #1268 of 2132 Old 04-15-2014, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by seanoo View Post

Great timely response from Krell regarding the software update issues. Now have the required software in hand.

Good deal.
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post #1269 of 2132 Old 04-17-2014, 08:44 AM
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I just read the review of the Foundation in May's Stereophile, and it will please owners that the review was very good indeed.
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post #1270 of 2132 Old 04-17-2014, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by gbaby View Post

I just read the review of the Foundation in May's Stereophile, and it will please owners that the review was very good indeed.
Thanks for info. I'm away from home for next two weeks so won't get my copy until then!
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post #1271 of 2132 Old 04-17-2014, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by gbaby View Post

I just read the review of the Foundation in May's Stereophile, and it will please owners that the review was very good indeed.

Kal's conclusion: I have no hesitation in recommending the Krell Foundation; its inherently excellent sound quality, the flexibility of its configurations, and its expanding capabilities make it competitive with cost-no-objection pre-pros.
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post #1272 of 2132 Old 04-17-2014, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark Harrison View Post

Kal's conclusion: I have no hesitation in recommending the Krell Foundation; its inherently excellent sound quality, the flexibility of its configurations, and its expanding capabilities make it competitive with cost-no-objection pre-pros.
Thanks!😄
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post #1273 of 2132 Old 04-18-2014, 04:37 AM
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I will be looking forward to the review. I haven't received my copy yet.frown.gif But it does sound as I had hoped. Thank you Kal
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post #1274 of 2132 Old 04-18-2014, 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted by gbaby View Post

I just read the review of the Foundation in May's Stereophile, and it will please owners that the review was very good indeed.

Thanks gbaby for the info. Now I really cant wait. wink.gif
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post #1275 of 2132 Old 04-18-2014, 08:38 AM
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Kal's review was helpful, though I was hoping for a more authoritarian verdict (or perhaps detailed comparison is more accurate) on it's sonic performance versus the cheaper pre/pro offerings from Marantz (AV8801) and Yamaha (CX-A5000), both of which he recently reviewed.

I currently have an ageing Denon 3808ci AVR paired with a Rotel RMB-1095 amp. I'm looking to improve the musicality of my setup, though my Klipsch RF-7's are not known for being as musical as they are loud (I watch 90% TV/Movies, so I figured I get noise-makers). Still, I think an upgrade in electronics will bring me significantly better sound. It doesn't help that I often listen to my father's pure analog stereo setup (Quad ESL-63 powered by a Classe DR-3b and Meitner preamp, Goldman Studio turntable) which quite frankly I'll NEVER come close to duplicating. Still, it can't help but be my reference system and a high bar it sets indeed.

My choices so far, in increasing order of cost are:
  • Anthem MRX-510: Cheap, probably sounds better than my old Denon, but likely only a marginal upgrade.
  • Yamaha CX-A5000. Very well reviewed, but uses Yamaha's room-correction system. I need serious bass-taming in my very live pine-panelled living-room, though my Paradigm Sub 15 has it's own EQ in the form of Anthem's "Perfect Bass Kit". Maybe that's all I need?
  • Marantz AV-8801: Still affordable, well reviewed, Audyssey XT32. Likely a noticeable upgrade, but will still be wanting for that extra sonic character.
  • Krell Foundation: No local dealer, hard to acquire, a significant investment for me. By all accounts, a noticeable improvement over the Marantz/Yamaha contenders but hard to quantify HOW MUCH of an improvement.
  • Anthem D2V (Used): Aging tech, but still highly regarded. Used units sometimes become available, but no warranty. Dealer available locally for servicing.

I've been leaning towards the Krell Foundation lately, and there's a used one available, but spending all that money and not having a local dealer for service is kind of scary. I could buy the Marantz (or Yamaha) tomorrow locally, but I fear it just won't meet my expectations. It's really hard to know if the Krell is worth the extra investment (and risk) for my ears to discern, though I suppose that's a question no reviewer can answer.

Denon 3808ci / Rotel RMB-1095 / Oppo BDP-93
Klipsch RF-7 II, RC-64 II, RS-62 II (5.1) / Paradigm Sub 15
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post #1276 of 2132 Old 04-18-2014, 09:03 AM
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I thought it was a very positive review! I'm wondering if Kal is considering a swap with his AV8801?

Dave

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post #1277 of 2132 Old 04-18-2014, 09:09 AM
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It is impossible to quantify the differences and, even if I tried, it would really be based on internal subjective bias and not likely equatable to anyone else's quantification.  I think your tabular comments are pretty much spot on.  I would suggest the Krell over all of the other options for pure sound quality (analog and digital) if the cost differential, the lack of 7.1 analog input*, the lack of OSD, the twitchy setup of the EQ and the lack of support for USB/streaming are acceptable to you.  

 

*Added in edit after being reminded by jsetliff.

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post #1278 of 2132 Old 04-18-2014, 09:27 AM
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I agree with Kal. I'm prepared to bet money that you'll hear a noticable difference in sound through the Foundation! It sounds truly amazing. I don't have a dealer locally either (and also from Canada, Alberta) and have been dealing directly with Krell with no issues.
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post #1279 of 2132 Old 04-18-2014, 09:40 AM
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Thanks, Kal. Your reviews and comments on my post are VERY much appreciated.

Denon 3808ci / Rotel RMB-1095 / Oppo BDP-93
Klipsch RF-7 II, RC-64 II, RS-62 II (5.1) / Paradigm Sub 15
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post #1280 of 2132 Old 04-18-2014, 10:46 AM
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I would add to the list of items used to make a decision if the Foundation is right for your setup might include lack of 7.1 analog input and lack of digital outputs to feed a zone 2. These are slight annoyances for me. As for audio quality I am completely satisfied.
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post #1281 of 2132 Old 04-18-2014, 10:53 AM
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Kal,

In your review of the Bryston SP3 you indicated a bit of "lack of synergy" with your Studio 60's metal tweeters if I remember correct. Did the Krell behave differently?

Jim

Main Kef: Reference 205/2 & 202/2c, Surrounds: Kef XQ40, Velodyne Optimum 12, Integra DHC 80.3, Oppo BDP-103, Bryston 4Bsst2, Parasound Halo A31. Second B&W: 685 (3), CCM618, Def Tech Powerfield 1500, Onkyo TX-NR1008, DBP 2010, Samsung BD-C7900, Zone 2 Klipsch AW650. Sitting still CCM616, Kef...
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post #1282 of 2132 Old 04-18-2014, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thezaks View Post

I thought it was a very positive review! I'm wondering if Kal is considering a swap with his AV8801?

Dave

Nope.  The CT system is going to remain a modest one.  ;)


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post #1283 of 2132 Old 04-18-2014, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

Kal,

In your review of the Bryston SP3 you indicated a bit of "lack of synergy" with your Studio 60's metal tweeters if I remember correct. Did the Krell behave differently?

Jim

Not much but I regard that as a speaker issue with which I intend to deal shortly.


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post #1284 of 2132 Old 04-19-2014, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by DrJazz View Post

Kal's review was helpful, though I was hoping for a more authoritarian verdict (or perhaps detailed comparison is more accurate) on it's sonic performance versus the cheaper pre/pro offerings from Marantz (AV8801) and Yamaha (CX-A5000), both of which he recently reviewed.

I currently have an ageing Denon 3808ci AVR paired with a Rotel RMB-1095 amp. I'm looking to improve the musicality of my setup, though my Klipsch RF-7's are not known for being as musical as they are loud (I watch 90% TV/Movies, so I figured I get noise-makers). Still, I think an upgrade in electronics will bring me significantly better sound. It doesn't help that I often listen to my father's pure analog stereo setup (Quad ESL-63 powered by a Classe DR-3b and Meitner preamp, Goldman Studio turntable) which quite frankly I'll NEVER come close to duplicating. Still, it can't help but be my reference system and a high bar it sets indeed.

My choices so far, in increasing order of cost are:
  • Anthem MRX-510: Cheap, probably sounds better than my old Denon, but likely only a marginal upgrade.
  • Yamaha CX-A5000. Very well reviewed, but uses Yamaha's room-correction system. I need serious bass-taming in my very live pine-panelled living-room, though my Paradigm Sub 15 has it's own EQ in the form of Anthem's "Perfect Bass Kit". Maybe that's all I need?
  • Marantz AV-8801: Still affordable, well reviewed, Audyssey XT32. Likely a noticeable upgrade, but will still be wanting for that extra sonic character.
  • Krell Foundation: No local dealer, hard to acquire, a significant investment for me. By all accounts, a noticeable improvement over the Marantz/Yamaha contenders but hard to quantify HOW MUCH of an improvement.
  • Anthem D2V (Used): Aging tech, but still highly regarded. Used units sometimes become available, but no warranty. Dealer available locally for servicing.

I've been leaning towards the Krell Foundation lately, and there's a used one available, but spending all that money and not having a local dealer for service is kind of scary. I could buy the Marantz (or Yamaha) tomorrow locally, but I fear it just won't meet my expectations. It's really hard to know if the Krell is worth the extra investment (and risk) for my ears to discern, though I suppose that's a question no reviewer can answer.



I've owned the Marantz AV8801 and now the Krell Foundation. The Marantz is more feature laden but many are duplicated in other devices (for me Oppo 103). The Krell, however, is head and shoulders above in pure sound quality -it's not even close in my view. I loved my Marantz for movies but it fell short on Music. The Krell is simply stunning on both. So much so that my dedicated CD/SACD player is now being moved on as the sound quality via digital into the Krell ever so slightly surpasses it. The Krell has finally given me the sound quality that I had been chasing for way too long. I am 110% satisfied with the purchase and can see myself sticking with this processor for many years to come.
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post #1285 of 2132 Old 04-19-2014, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by DrJazz View Post

Kal's review was helpful, though I was hoping for a more authoritarian verdict (or perhaps detailed comparison is more accurate) on it's sonic performance versus the cheaper pre/pro offerings from Marantz (AV8801) and Yamaha (CX-A5000), both of which he recently reviewed.

I currently have an ageing Denon 3808ci AVR paired with a Rotel RMB-1095 amp. I'm looking to improve the musicality of my setup, though my Klipsch RF-7's are not known for being as musical as they are loud (I watch 90% TV/Movies, so I figured I get noise-makers). Still, I think an upgrade in electronics will bring me significantly better sound. It doesn't help that I often listen to my father's pure analog stereo setup (Quad ESL-63 powered by a Classe DR-3b and Meitner preamp, Goldman Studio turntable) which quite frankly I'll NEVER come close to duplicating. Still, it can't help but be my reference system and a high bar it sets indeed.

My choices so far, in increasing order of cost are:
  • Anthem MRX-510: Cheap, probably sounds better than my old Denon, but likely only a marginal upgrade.
  • Yamaha CX-A5000. Very well reviewed, but uses Yamaha's room-correction system. I need serious bass-taming in my very live pine-panelled living-room, though my Paradigm Sub 15 has it's own EQ in the form of Anthem's "Perfect Bass Kit". Maybe that's all I need?
  • Marantz AV-8801: Still affordable, well reviewed, Audyssey XT32. Likely a noticeable upgrade, but will still be wanting for that extra sonic character.
  • Krell Foundation: No local dealer, hard to acquire, a significant investment for me. By all accounts, a noticeable improvement over the Marantz/Yamaha contenders but hard to quantify HOW MUCH of an improvement.
  • Anthem D2V (Used): Aging tech, but still highly regarded. Used units sometimes become available, but no warranty. Dealer available locally for servicing.

I've been leaning towards the Krell Foundation lately, and there's a used one available, but spending all that money and not having a local dealer for service is kind of scary. I could buy the Marantz (or Yamaha) tomorrow locally, but I fear it just won't meet my expectations. It's really hard to know if the Krell is worth the extra investment (and risk) for my ears to discern, though I suppose that's a question no reviewer can answer.
I just went from a Denon AVR 4810 that in my opinion sounded good. It too was used as pre/pro with mc intosh amps.
It's no match at all to the Foundation - two different worlds. I'm too at the end of my search and very satisfyed with both stereo and surround. Actually i can't still get my arms down- i can just sit there for hours.
The thing is: are you after better sound or something else? I was after sound and don't miss anything. I find the setup easy to live wtih now i have that fantastic sound. I never used the analog 5/7.1 inputs on any of my other pre/pros so i can't imagine i'll miss that. Also i live in Denmark and my guess is i have the only Foundation in the country. This thread convinced my and you all were right and then some.
Go ahead - you won't be sorry.
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post #1286 of 2132 Old 04-19-2014, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanoo View Post

I've owned the Marantz AV8801 and now the Krell Foundation. The Marantz is more feature laden but many are duplicated in other devices (for me Oppo 103). The Krell, however, is head and shoulders above in pure sound quality -it's not even close in my view. I loved my Marantz for movies but it fell short on Music. The Krell is simply stunning on both. So much so that my dedicated CD/SACD player is now being moved on as the sound quality via digital into the Krell ever so slightly surpasses it. The Krell has finally given me the sound quality that I had been chasing for way too long. I am 110% satisfied with the purchase and can see myself sticking with this processor for many years to come.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldbech01 View Post

I just went from a Denon AVR 4810 that in my opinion sounded good. It too was used as pre/pro with mc intosh amps.
It's no match at all to the Foundation - two different worlds. I'm too at the end of my search and very satisfyed with both stereo and surround. Actually i can't still get my arms down- i can just sit there for hours.
The thing is: are you after better sound or something else? I was after sound and don't miss anything. I find the setup easy to live wtih now i have that fantastic sound. I never used the analog 5/7.1 inputs on any of my other pre/pros so i can't imagine i'll miss that. Also i live in Denmark and my guess is i have the only Foundation in the country. This thread convinced my and you all were right and then some.
Go ahead - you won't be sorry.
I'm so happy I'm not the only one to enjoy the sound of the Foundation. Everyone can't be wrong. I personally don't have any of the issues some people had with setup and don't miss any of the functions some other pre-pros have. In my setup it works well the way it is!
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post #1287 of 2132 Old 04-19-2014, 07:26 PM
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I was one of the first to own and report here of the Foundation. I unfortunately had to part with mine. But I loved it so much I will definitely be buying another. Even if there is 15 other processors out there to choose from.

I had never found that perfect balance of sound from deep bass to the highest highs. The Foundation gave that to me.

It really is stunning how it can be so dynamic but so smooth at the same time. I have never heard a component that could do this.

And don't get me started on the dialog intelligibility. I have said it before, but it really is absolutely incredible.

The bass is awesome. Along with very good soundstage depth.

The only faults are owners manual is a joke. Finicky eq, and that cheap mic.

I had no problems with setup. To me it was pretty straight forward. I actually loved the remote. I used it fine while watching movies. I actually like the quality feel of it. And the button layout was good also.

I am not lying when I said I cried when I boxed it up after I sold it.

I have shed tears after reading the reviews. I knew I had a great product that many were saying was cheap china made emotiva junk. Way overpriced and so forth and so on. I didn't really care if I was the only person that ever bought one. I knew what I had and I am so so glad that the world knows now also. That is 6 reviews now and every single one has been simply fantastic. I I agree with all of them.

I would like to thank Kal Rubinson for sticking with the review of the Foundation. I know it took a long time to get one in for review. A lot of people trust your opinion more than most. So it meant a lot for you to give the Foundation high marks. So again thank you for the review. I would like to think I helped a little with the taping the mic to the stand part. wink.gif

Again anybody that wants a great sounding processor for music and movies try the Foundation I guarantee you wont be disappointed.
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post #1288 of 2132 Old 04-19-2014, 08:53 PM
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This is the graph of what ares room eq software did for stereophile magazine. The bass eq looks pretty bad.

Not only is the bass way too loud, it varies a lot. 15db amplitude spread from 25 to 40hz alone. And 25db spread from high to low up to 80hz.

The graph doesn't show the raw room eq so we don't know how much eq was done. The red line is 250hz and below eq. Not smooth at all. I would spend the $100 for a usb mic and hdmi cable to verify results. This will verify best speaker location, best crossover setting, any room changes and any manual filters that could help. Don't trust the auto room eq software. And average multiple mic positions to avoid anomalies for best results.
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post #1289 of 2132 Old 04-20-2014, 06:38 AM
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^ there was a couple times I ran ares and had similar results. Not measured, but could tell it sounded way jacked up. To the point my sub was actually bottoming out. But I ran and reran ares about 10 times trying different settings. When it got it close you could tell. Again not measured. So in the end I have to say I agree with you. This is exactly what I did. I used rew and set my speakers in there optimal spots then did ares. I think I actually do have a rew graph with ares on I will try to post later. In this graph I had to turn down the bass afterwards but the bass part of the graph is actually pretty smooth. Way smoother than Kals
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post #1290 of 2132 Old 04-20-2014, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kikkenit2 View Post

This is the graph of what ares room eq software did for stereophile magazine. The bass eq looks pretty bad.

Not only is the bass way too loud, it varies a lot. 15db amplitude spread from 25 to 40hz alone. And 25db spread from high to low up to 80hz.

The graph doesn't show the raw room eq so we don't know how much eq was done. The red line is 250hz and below eq. Not smooth at all. I would spend the $100 for a usb mic and hdmi cable to verify results. This will verify best speaker location, best crossover setting, any room changes and any manual filters that could help. Don't trust the auto room eq software. And average multiple mic positions to avoid anomalies for best results.

I agree it is pretty bad and that is why I chose it.  It is the front left speaker which was sitting in a corner within a meter of the front and side wall.  Unlike the other speaker positions, it suffers from a large peak at around 42Hz and a deep suck-out at 65Hz in the raw FR for any speaker placed in that position.  (I say suck-out and not null because it is correctable.)  The ARES EQ severely boosted the bass from the top of the 42Hz peak and extended it all the way down.  It also widened the 65Hz trough and didn't deal with the anomalies from 100-250Hz.  

 

The real point of the figure, however, is to show that moving the top of the EQ range from 250Hz to full range just sucked the life out of the treble.  This suck-out was apparent on all the speakers, not just this ornery one. 

 

I also agree that the Achille's Heel of autoEQ is that lack of verification and that any serious user should have an independent measurement system.  The published graph was derived from Omnimic V2 measurements.


Kal Rubinson

"Music in the Round"
Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile
http://www.stereophile.com/category/music-round

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