Krell Foundation Owners Thread - Page 57 - AVS Forum
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post #1681 of 1697 Old 07-09-2014, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Wolfgang Mozart View Post
I guess it looks for DoP flags in PCM data so if it detects DSD it recognises it as DSD and decodes it appropriately. All DSD DACs do it the same way. It does not matter how the data arrives, whether it is by HDMI or USB...

You lost me. Does this translate into DSD being converted to PCM for multi-channel play back?
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post #1682 of 1697 Old 07-09-2014, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by gbaby View Post
You lost me. Does this translate into DSD being converted to PCM for multi-channel play back?
No not at all. The DSD stream is encapsulated inside the PCM stream but not converted to PCM. It can then easily be reconstructed from this PCM data back to DSD without losing anything. This is what DSD DACs do.

As an analogy, think of how old data modems from the 80s and 90s used to modulate binary data into audio to transmit the data using ordinary telephone lines. Then the modem at the other end used this sound signal to reconstruct the binary data perfectly. It is sort of like this.

So when you play a DSD file using JRiver as an example, JRiver encodes that DSD data as PCM data using the DoP (DSD over PCM) algorithm. Then this PCM data is converted back to DSD by your DAC. Whether the data is two channel stereo or seven channel surround doesn't matter the same thing is done.

I hope this is somewhat clearer.
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post #1683 of 1697 Old 07-09-2014, 02:26 PM
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[QUOTE=rhale64L7;25594833]I spoke to Patrick at Krell yesterday and was told the 4k Foundation is not out yet.
You folks that are getting the upgrade are first. Then in probably September they will start shipping the 4k versions.



That is great news. Haven't heard from Krell yet about my "no sound" issue and when they will do the 4K upgrade. I did however pay for the 4K upgrade, guess it's just the waiting game again. I'm a little worried i must admit.
I read that you must registre the unit within 10 days i believe i was. I did not read that part in the beginning so i'm late on that. Hope it will work out anyways.

It's great to hear that your getting a new unit. And thank you for keep posting in here. I Really learn alot from that.
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post #1684 of 1697 Old 07-09-2014, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by rhale64L7 View Post
I spoke to Patrick at Krell yesterday and was told the 4k Foundation is not out yet.
You folks that are getting the upgrade are first. Then in probably September they will start shipping the 4k versions.

The amps Expecially the Chorus series had been held up do to supplier issues. They are trickling out one at a time now.

Asked about this Atmos. His reply if it becomes popular and a viable format they will support it in the Foundation.

So all the naysayers that have said that Krell can't come back. I think they have proven otherwise. And I will support them. An American company that was going down the toilet seams to have been resurrected.
Good info. Hopefully then I my upgrade will happen in August. Not long now.
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post #1685 of 1697 Old 07-09-2014, 09:03 PM
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As the kids would say, WTF??

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Originally Posted by rhale64L7 View Post
I spoke to Patrick at Krell yesterday and was told the 4k Foundation is not out yet.
You folks that are getting the upgrade are first. Then in probably September they will start shipping the 4k versions.
OK, this is absolutely bizarre! My Authorized Dealer, AudioDave in Belmont, MA, told me that the unit Krell shipped to him, that is now in my home for audition, is DEFINITELY a 4k version. Also, I could have sworn that a few days ago there was an announcement on Krell's Home Page that the 4k units are NOW SHIPPING, but that announcement is no longer appearing.

I will follow up with Dave, who is awesome, but something very strange is going on down in CT.

And as for the Chorus and supply issues, I wish them well and hope it's a smashing success, but looks like I'll be waiting at least until next year to make sure that the supply hiccups get a addressed, that the fans are silent, and that everyone's happy with the sound/reliability.

I'm still going to buy this Foundation - I think, but jeez, I feel like we're pawns! Why the friggin' mystery? Why no clear and consistent announcements? Why no updated User's Reference? Why are we on our own in this forum stumbling around in the dark? I am now officially really angry. Not cool to be getting such conflicting information from Krell.

Last edited by Bulgogi; 07-09-2014 at 09:08 PM.
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post #1686 of 1697 Old 07-09-2014, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by RBFC View Post
I'll test the Analog/Stereo selection this weekend and post results.

Lee
Hey Lee,

Were you able to do this? Still a mystery to me!

Josh
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post #1687 of 1697 Old 07-09-2014, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulgogi View Post
OK, this is absolutely bizarre! My Authorized Dealer, AudioDave in Belmont, MA, told me that the unit Krell shipped to him, that is now in my home for audition, is DEFINITELY a 4k version. Also, I could have sworn that a few days ago there was an announcement on Krell's Home Page that the 4k units are NOW SHIPPING, but that announcement is no longer appearing.

I will follow up with Dave, who is awesome, but something very strange is going on down in CT.

And as for the Chorus and supply issues, I wish them well and hope it's a smashing success, but looks like I'll be waiting at least until next year to make sure that the supply hiccups get a addressed, that the fans are silent, and that everyone's happy with the sound/reliability.

I'm still going to buy this Foundation - I think, but jeez, I feel like we're pawns! Why the friggin' mystery? Why no clear and consistent announcements? Why no updated User's Reference? Why are we on our own in this forum stumbling around in the dark? I am now officially really angry. Not cool to be getting such conflicting information from Krell.
Maybe more supply issues. This hdmi 2.0 has just come out. It was amazing that a small company like Krell could beat all the others to market with it. Even if they start shipping in September that is very good considering the others are probably going to start shipping there new stuff then.

I wondered why you didn't have onscreen display on your unit. That is supposed to be on the 4k Foundation.

You are in the home state of Krell. If it's not too far drive there and get some face to face answers. And please ask them to give us an real owners manual. And a real microphone.

Sorry I thought you were in Connecticut. Reread your post how long a drive to there factory?
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post #1688 of 1697 Old 07-09-2014, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by rhale64L7 View Post
Maybe more supply issues. This hdmi 2.0 has just come out. It was amazing that a small company like Krell could beat all the others to market with it. Even if they start shipping in September that is very good considering the others are probably going to start shipping there new stuff then.

I wondered why you didn't have onscreen display on your unit. That is supposed to be on the 4k Foundation.

You are in the home state of Krell. If it's not too far drive there and get some face to face answers. And please ask them to give us an real owners manual. And a real microphone.

Sorry I thought you were in Connecticut. Reread your post how long a drive to there factory?
Thanks for the response. I've sent an email to Dave and will straighten out the 4k question. I'd just as soon have the lower price of the pre-4k, but just want to know what's what.

Yes, I'm in Brookline, MA, which is just outside of Boston. My brother lives in Hartford, and I visit him from time to time. Orange is down near New Haven - Yankees Country - so it's probably about a 3 hour drive from our place and an hour or less from Hartford.

I'm sure these things will work themselves out, and I love the sound.

I am rooting for Post-Dan Krell to continue to succeed. I just hope their Private Equity owners are patient and generous with their funding and in this for the long haul and aren't looking to flip it to some faceless and perhaps foreign conglomerate. But those are topics for another day.
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post #1689 of 1697 Old 07-09-2014, 10:33 PM
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Yes I hope that Krell makes it. The Foundation is a wonderful sounding piece of equipment. One thing they haven't forgotten is how to make good sounding equipment.
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post #1690 of 1697 Old 07-10-2014, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhale64L7 View Post
Yes I hope that Krell makes it. The Foundation is a wonderful sounding piece of equipment. One thing they haven't forgotten is how to make good sounding equipment.
agree,

Anyone hear anything yet on the Chorus and fans we are all worried about, I really want a new 7 channel amp to pair with my Foundation.
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post #1691 of 1697 Old 07-10-2014, 04:36 PM
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I would like to make some comments here to try to clarify some topics. There are 2 upgrades. The DSD update and the 4k update. The DSD update is free and can be performed now, but the unit must go back to Krell for the update. According to Krell, the 4k update requires swapping out the video card and will be performed in the August-Septembertimeframe. If one purchases the 4k upgrade, the DSD is incorporated automatically at no additional charge when the unit is sent in for the 4k. I have an "older" unit (mfg'd June, 2013) and it has HDMI problems with s/w versions 1.21 and 1.22, but works fine with 1.20. I purchased the 4k upgrade today and received this info directly from Krell. The Foundation is by far the best processor I have ever auditioned, and I've had and a lot of processors (Lexicon MC-12 Balanced, Integra Research, B&K Signature 70, Marantz 7005, Emotiva UMC-1, Denon AVP A1HDCI), and all won't hold a candle to the Foundation in sound through an all Magnepan system. Why do I think it's the best for me? It is the ONLY preamp that fooled me many many times into pausing it because, a) the dogs outside were barking and I had to see what was bothering them, b) the doorbell was ringing and I had to get up to see who it was, c) someone came into the room and wanted to speak to me urgently d) lead guitars were being played by the Who from in front of but outside the speakers in a closet with the door shut on the CSI tv show. All of those sounds were in the recording and not really in my house, but never have I been surprised so much that caused me to stop the movie or music. It really sounds real to me, and that is why I think the Krell and the Magnepans will always be in my system to the rest of my days. Sure There have been some hiccups, that's why I went backwards in s/w revisions. But when it is playing, the sounds is so real.
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post #1692 of 1697 Old 07-10-2014, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by sefinnell View Post
I would like to make some comments here to try to clarify some topics. There are 2 upgrades. The DSD update and the 4k update. The DSD update is free and can be performed now, but the unit must go back to Krell for the update. According to Krell, the 4k update requires swapping out the video card and will be performed in the August-Septembertimeframe. If one purchases the 4k upgrade, the DSD is incorporated automatically at no additional charge when the unit is sent in for the 4k. I have an "older" unit (mfg'd June, 2013) and it has HDMI problems with s/w versions 1.21 and 1.22, but works fine with 1.20. I purchased the 4k upgrade today and received this info directly from Krell. The Foundation is by far the best processor I have ever auditioned, and I've had and a lot of processors (Lexicon MC-12 Balanced, Integra Research, B&K Signature 70, Marantz 7005, Emotiva UMC-1, Denon AVP A1HDCI), and all won't hold a candle to the Foundation in sound through an all Magnepan system. Why do I think it's the best for me? It is the ONLY preamp that fooled me many many times into pausing it because, a) the dogs outside were barking and I had to see what was bothering them, b) the doorbell was ringing and I had to get up to see who it was, c) someone came into the room and wanted to speak to me urgently d) lead guitars were being played by the Who from in front of but outside the speakers in a closet with the door shut on the CSI tv show. All of those sounds were in the recording and not really in my house, but never have I been surprised so much that caused me to stop the movie or music. It really sounds real to me, and that is why I think the Krell and the Magnepans will always be in my system to the rest of my days. Sure There have been some hiccups, that's why I went backwards in s/w revisions. But when it is playing, the sounds is so real.
I will echo this post. I've gotten up to answer a text on my phone, knocks on the door, etc. too many times to count. It's actually become a joke in our house. I, too, am having a few HDMI issues with 1.22, but I can easily go back to 1.20 that I have on a USB thumb drive if I wish. The display/HDMI/software landscape is so dynamic right now, that there are bound to be issues that arise. The folks at Krell, not a "giant" company, are good guys and are dedicated to getting each of these issues fixed. We must remember that when any of us have an "issue" with the processor, they must sort out if it is a problem with their product, with the customer's setup, with a third party's connected product, or a combination of the above. We all get frustrated by imperfection.... at least Krell is demonstrating commitment to improvement. I say hang in there and things will calm down.

Bulgogi, I haven't had time to research the issue we discussed, but should have an answer in the next few days.

Lee
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post #1693 of 1697 Old Yesterday, 07:09 AM
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I echo these two above comments also. I still remember the time on Ferris Beulers Day Off that both me and my dog thought there was a bird in my home theater. It was so crazy how distinct the sound was coming from an area well away from any speaker but so focused it had to be there.
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post #1694 of 1697 Old Yesterday, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by rhale64L7 View Post
I echo these two above comments also. I still remember the time on Ferris Beulers Day Off that both me and my dog thought there was a bird in my home theater. It was so crazy how distinct the sound was coming from an area well away from any speaker but so focused it had to be there.
I'll also echo those comments. I hope I'm not creating the impression that the Foundation is undesirable. Even on 2 channel sources, including Netflix streamed movies with a Stereo or Dolby 2.1 sound track, I've often had to check the center speaker and rear surrounds to confirm they're not on because the soundstage is so enveloping and the sound is so clear. While watching Andrei Tarkovsky's movie Nostalghia on Netflix last night, I kept thinking it had started to rain and that we'd left our windows open (if any of you are not familiar with his films, he's really into rain and water images). And it's a 1983 film with a mono or stereo soundtrack. That is a first for me.

I think my frustrations have a lot to do with the fact that modern processors do so much that it is hard to keep track of some of the operations - Like computer based audio, there is a very high learning curve which results in a love-hate relationship at times. For Krell to put out such a product that sounds so amazing as a processor, let alone one that it is worth it's price as a super high end two channel analog preamp alone, is quite impressive.

But I still reserve my right to grouse and moan from time to time when I'm stumped by something! I tend to do that. Just ask my wife!
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post #1695 of 1697 Old Today, 07:01 AM
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Ditto
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post #1696 of 1697 Old Today, 03:06 PM
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I finally purchased my Krell Foundation today. It is a demo unit used as a photo sample and is about a month old. So I am assuming that DSD capability is not on it. I have been reading this forum thread and am trying to get a handle on the DSD capability and firmware upgrades. I did ask a while back about the DSD upgrade requiring the unit to be sent back and was told most likely, but maybe not. What I don't understand is why would it need to be sent in? Isn't it a firmware issue? Is the firmware not user upgradeable? If not, that is seriously stupid that the unit would need to be sent in for firmware upgrades. I receive the unit on Tuesday and am really psyched. I just hope my enthusiasm doesn't get dampened.

The Cave: Sony VPL-VW600ES, 110" Elite Fixed, Oppo BDP-103D, Sony FMP-X10 (Pre-order), Apple TV 3, Krell Foundation, 7 x Emotiva XPA-1L, Sonus Faber Venere 2.5, Sonus Faber Venere Center, 4 x Emotiva ERD-1, 2 x Rythmik FV15HP
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post #1697 of 1697 Old Today, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Balthazar2k4 View Post
I finally purchased my Krell Foundation today. It is a demo unit used as a photo sample and is about a month old. So I am assuming that DSD capability is not on it. I have been reading this forum thread and am trying to get a handle on the DSD capability and firmware upgrades. I did ask a while back about the DSD upgrade requiring the unit to be sent back and was told most likely, but maybe not. What I don't understand is why would it need to be sent in? Isn't it a firmware issue? Is the firmware not user upgradeable? If not, that is seriously stupid that the unit would need to be sent in for firmware upgrades. I receive the unit on Tuesday and am really psyched. I just hope my enthusiasm doesn't get dampened.
Congrats on new unit. You'll keep enjoying the sound for a long time so your enthusiasm will not be dampened! Mine has to go back for the 4K upgrade but I also hope that the DSD can be done sooner via internet.
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