Krell Foundation Owners Thread - Page 58 - AVS Forum
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post #1711 of 2111 Old 07-13-2014, 06:26 PM
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Yes and my dealer told me that also. So I just called Krell. They wanted the old top plate back. They gave me a discount on the new rack mount one.
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post #1712 of 2111 Old 07-13-2014, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by RBFC View Post
Sending the unit back to Krell for the DSD update may allow them to inspect the unit for other issues that have been identified in certain lot numbers/manufacturing runs...
The problem here is for International customers, which is why we are hoping for an in-field DSD software update rather than a return to factory. The shipper that Krell uses charges outrageous International shipping rates, like 3 to 4 times the best market rate making the DSD upgrade uneconomic. I have asked the question twice about in-field upgrade, still waiting on a definitive answer.

If an EPROM needs to be re-flashed for DSD support (or whatever) I hope there is tooling made available to local distributors so units don't need to be returned to Krell. PS Audio do this for their Dectet power board, provide the connecting hardware to the distributor to re-flash on-board memory using a PC.

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post #1713 of 2111 Old 07-13-2014, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Deckard97 View Post
Not sure where you guys are getting this information from, but I've been to the Krell factory twice in the past month to drop off and pick up my refurbished amp. I stayed for a tour and listened to the cipher, and the " cheaper " models. The foundation processors are selling like hot cakes. There are stacks and stacks of them sold and ready for shipment. Looks like things are running smooth to me...
I also had an opportunity to meet with one of the VP's, and asked him specifically about Atmos. From what I heard, they are not excited about it. Although they are commercially involved in providing amplifiers for a new Atmos theater overseas.
A great crew at Krell, The place was pristine and they were busy as F&^%.


KRELL METAL....AMPS WITH NEAR LIMITLESS POWER
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What amps are they using in this new Atmos theater? And did you get to see a new Ibias amp? I am interested in one very much so. The full specs are up on krells website now. The 7200 actually weighs 100lbs and could heat my home theater. It isn't much different from there older amps in that regard.
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post #1714 of 2111 Old 07-13-2014, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by rhale64L7 View Post
What amps are they using in this new Atmos theater? And did you get to see a new Ibias amp? I am interested in one very much so. The full specs are up on krells website now. The 7200 actually weighs 100lbs and could heat my home theater. It isn't much different from there older amps in that regard.
Honestly not sure about the exact amps they are using, he just mentioned monoblocks. Didn't get a chance to see the new Ibais amp. I'm just lucky enough to afford the old Krell gear.....their new stuff is out of my league. ....but my speakers aren't


B
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post #1715 of 2111 Old 07-13-2014, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by gulliBELL View Post
The problem here is for International customers, which is why we are hoping for an in-field DSD software update rather than a return to factory. The shipper that Krell uses charges outrageous International shipping rates, like 3 to 4 times the best market rate making the DSD upgrade uneconomic. I have asked the question twice about in-field upgrade, still waiting on a definitive answer.

If an EPROM needs to be re-flashed for DSD support (or whatever) I hope there is tooling made available to local distributors so units don't need to be returned to Krell. PS Audio do this for their Dectet power board, provide the connecting hardware to the distributor to re-flash on-board memory using a PC.
I agree. Even from Canada shipping is very expensive. My Evolution 600e monoblock has to go back for repair and where I live it's difficult just to get someone to ship such a heavy product. And I was told they're not ready for the 4K upgrade so I can't ship both unit at same time.
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post #1716 of 2111 Old 07-13-2014, 08:22 PM
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I feel for you guys, and I'm right there with you. We all wish that the "issues" surrounding the Foundation (software update email/Facebook notifications, odd HDMI glitches, DSD/4K upgrades, etc.) were non-existent. I don't work for them. I simply feel that the value and performance of the unit so far has been worth the inconveniences. I don't believe you'll find a processor with sound like this one in this price range.

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post #1717 of 2111 Old 07-13-2014, 08:23 PM
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A little off topic from the most recent posts, but just thought I'd share something with you all.

On Friday, my local authorized dealer/integrator was back to install a Savant home automation system, which is pretty amazing so far, but not entirely complete - it's a pretty complex process on their end, so there are a few bugs to work out as well as additional functions to still add. We're getting it not only to control the entire HT system, which I use for LPs, Apple TV, Cable TV, all digital discs plus USB stick files on an Oppo 105D, and with various separate connections between the Oppo and the Foundation, but also to control lighting, alarm system and thermostat. And we live in a 1420 square foot condominium! I use a wheelchair though, so it'll make things easier for me . . . and for my wife more importantly! She jokes about the six remotes we have . . . not including her!

Anyway, I had the Oppo connected by RCA analog cables and by HDMI. I was using the RCA analog cables over the HDMI for 2 channel though because, at least to me in my system and room, I liked the results more than using the Foundation's internal DAC with the HDMI connection. So, while the dealer was here, I pulled out an decent s/pdif coax cable that I was not using and asked him to add that to the digital 1 input and assign it to "BD1" on the remote so I would have a third option, and I have to say it's now my favorite for 2 channel digital sources. While I still think the Oppo's internal DACs produces a wider sound stage, using the the Foundation's internal DACs with a decent s/pdif coax cable is very close in that regard and oh soooo much more refined in all other respects. Deeper sound stage front to back, and smoother, with no loss of detail. YMMV, of course, as it's all about system synergy and room interaction, and we all hear things slightly differently.

Also, I played a 2 channel SACD though the coax and the Foundation registered that it was receiving a DSD signal, so I need to follow up with my dealer or Krell on that since I thought DSD would only pass through the HDMI.
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post #1718 of 2111 Old 07-13-2014, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by RBFC View Post
I feel for you guys, and I'm right there with you. We all wish that the "issues" surrounding the Foundation (software update email/Facebook notifications, odd HDMI glitches, DSD/4K upgrades, etc.) were non-existent. I don't work for them. I simply feel that the value and performance of the unit so far has been worth the inconveniences. I don't believe you'll find a processor with sound like this one in this price range.

Lee
Yes, that's the thing. When you consider not only the amazing sound, but also what it does, it's price is quite remarkable. I can't see anyone buying the pricier Evolution processors now that the Foundation is out. I hope for their sake they come up with a pricier older brother, perhaps with a separate power source and such, to avoid cannibalizing their bigger margin pieces.

Also, I think they try hard to get the customer service right even though they may not hit all the marks, which I assume is because they're overextended. My dealer, Dave, sent an email or text to Bill McKiegan while he was here, and Bill called him back within a few minutes and took all the questions that I had. I didn't know who this "Bill" guy was until I asked Dave. Bill is the CEO. Wow. So, I should have answers to the issues I've posted here recently.

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post #1719 of 2111 Old 07-13-2014, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by rhale64L7 View Post
What amps are they using in this new Atmos theater? And did you get to see a new Ibias amp? I am interested in one very much so. The full specs are up on krells website now. The 7200 actually weighs 100lbs and could heat my home theater. It isn't much different from there older amps in that regard.
Actually, don't throw away that space heater just yet my man! My dealer told me that the iBias amps run so cool that you can stack the preamp or processor directly on top. In fact they are designed for that.
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post #1720 of 2111 Old 07-13-2014, 09:17 PM
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I know but if you look at the btu per hour it is up there. I guess thats what them 4 fans are for. To cool that baby down when installed close together in a rack.
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post #1721 of 2111 Old 07-13-2014, 11:21 PM
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@Bulgogi I also use the analog output from my source player direct to my pre-amp, bypassing the Foundation completely. This only works for CD content however as the analog outputs on the source player are disabled for higher-resolution content. I have found that when the source player is connected to the Foundation via HDMI the sound quality is virtually indistinguishable to source player analog direct to pre-amp, but ONLY if the display connected to the Foundation is also ON. If the display is off the sound is completely different. With my eyes closed I can tell whether my display is on or off simply by listening to a CD via Foundation HDMI connection. The difference is easy to pick, the HDMI display needs to be ON for the Foundation to sound it's best for HDMI sourced content.

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post #1722 of 2111 Old 07-14-2014, 04:43 AM
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@Bulgogi I also use the analog output from my source player direct to my pre-amp, bypassing the Foundation completely. This only works for CD content however as the analog outputs on the source player are disabled for higher-resolution content. I have found that when the source player is connected to the Foundation via HDMI the sound quality is virtually indistinguishable to source player analog direct to pre-amp, but ONLY if the display connected to the Foundation is also ON. If the display is off the sound is completely different. With my eyes closed I can tell whether my display is on or off simply by listening to a CD via Foundation HDMI connection. The difference is easy to pick, the HDMI display needs to be ON for the Foundation to sound it's best for HDMI sourced content.
That's certainly not good news. I do not plan on using the HDMI out on the processor. I will run the video directly from my Oppo/Sony FMP to the projector until 4K output is a reality on the Foundation. Have others noticed this oddity as well?

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post #1723 of 2111 Old 07-14-2014, 04:51 AM
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Originally Posted by gulliBELL View Post
@Bulgogi I also use the analog output from my source player direct to my pre-amp, bypassing the Foundation completely. This only works for CD content however as the analog outputs on the source player are disabled for higher-resolution content. I have found that when the source player is connected to the Foundation via HDMI the sound quality is virtually indistinguishable to source player analog direct to pre-amp, but ONLY if the display connected to the Foundation is also ON. If the display is off the sound is completely different. With my eyes closed I can tell whether my display is on or off simply by listening to a CD via Foundation HDMI connection. The difference is easy to pick, the HDMI display needs to be ON for the Foundation to sound it's best for HDMI sourced content.
I have the display on when I use the HDMI, and to me the difference between HDMI and analog out on my Oppo is readily apparent. I'll experiment some more, but am happy with the s/pdif coax connection in any event.
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post #1724 of 2111 Old 07-14-2014, 10:44 AM
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Figures one day after I bought my Foundation from AudioAdvisor, a used one shows up on Audiogon for a killer price. Oh well.

The Cave: Sony VPL-VW600ES, 110" Elite Fixed, Oppo BDP-103D, Apple TV 3, Marantz AV8801, 3 x Emotiva XPA-1 Gen2 , 4 x Emotiva XPA-1L, MartinLogan Motion 60XT, MartinLogan Motion 50XT, 4 x MartinLogan MotionFX, 2 x Rythmik FV15HP
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post #1725 of 2111 Old 07-14-2014, 11:23 AM
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Figures one day after I bought my Foundation from AudioAdvisor, a used one shows up on Audiogon for a killer price. Oh well.
Always the case, huh? At least you aren't buying any possible undisclosed problems.

Lee
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post #1726 of 2111 Old 07-14-2014, 01:46 PM
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The problem here is for International customers, which is why we are hoping for an in-field DSD software update rather than a return to factory. The shipper that Krell uses charges outrageous International shipping rates, like 3 to 4 times the best market rate making the DSD upgrade uneconomic. I have asked the question twice about in-field upgrade, still waiting on a definitive answer.

If an EPROM needs to be re-flashed for DSD support (or whatever) I hope there is tooling made available to local distributors so units don't need to be returned to Krell. PS Audio do this for their Dectet power board, provide the connecting hardware to the distributor to re-flash on-board memory using a PC.
High shipping rates will even out the otherwise fair priced Foundation. But i'm ok with paying extra for a high end product. That goes for maintenance as well. Mine needs to be shipped overseas for the 4k upgrade and repair. I own both McIntosh and PS Audio products and have always received responses pretty fast. That's my only concern with this Krell product. Sales and aftermarked goes hand in hand. The way their aftermarked is servicing the customer will determine if you will continue to purchase the product in the future.
Sorry if i'm being a bit hard here 😊
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post #1727 of 2111 Old 07-14-2014, 05:05 PM
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I've always had quick responses to my emails. Need to return my Evolution 600e for repair. Sent request for RMA Sunday evening and got reply by 9h50. With advice for the Foundation I've always got a next day reply. Maybe I'm just lucky or "special"... Haha. As said in many responses the sound of the Foundation makes up for a lot of frustration. I'm extremely happy with mine!!!
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post #1728 of 2111 Old 07-14-2014, 05:37 PM
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High shipping rates will even out the otherwise fair priced Foundation. But i'm ok with paying extra for a high end product...
The Foundation in Australia is $9,999 MSRP....a big price difference to US retail, and the difference is not all due to high shipping rates.
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post #1729 of 2111 Old 07-14-2014, 07:18 PM
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Does anybody know what Krells policy on buying used and then getting the upgrade? Do you still get the same price? Does the used upgraded Foundation now have a full 5 yr warranty in your name? All questions I would like to know.
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post #1730 of 2111 Old 07-14-2014, 07:34 PM
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Channel control via tcp or serial

Does anyone know if Krell updated the foundation to allow individual volume control of each channel via serial or tcp? When I looked last year they said there was not time to do it. I have Krell the 7.1 which has tons of control via serial which we use via roomie ipad. The foundation controls are about 1/4 of the hts 7.1. Anyway, I really would like to know if someone is controlling volume on each channel via serial or top. Thanks!
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post #1731 of 2111 Old 07-14-2014, 07:47 PM
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My Foundation is connected via high quality HDMI from Transparent Cables to my Oppo and sounds better than analog cables from Oppo. All HDMI cables are not the same. For my High Rez files I use Qsonix (that doesn't exist any more) with Audioquest Diamond USB to dCS Puccini with U-clock and then Transparent Ultra cables and that sounds just out of this world. I prefer the sound from the Qsonix but the Oppo doesn't sound bad through HDMI. Doesn't make much difference if display is switched on or off in my system. Foundation just rocks!
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post #1732 of 2111 Old 07-14-2014, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by vvuuren View Post
My Foundation is connected via high quality HDMI from Transparent Cables to my Oppo and sounds better than analog cables from Oppo. All HDMI cables are not the same. For my High Rez files I use Qsonix (that doesn't exist any more) with Audioquest Diamond USB to dCS Puccini with U-clock and then Transparent Ultra cables and that sounds just out of this world. I prefer the sound from the Qsonix but the Oppo doesn't sound bad through HDMI. Doesn't make much difference if display is switched on or off in my system. Foundation just rocks!
Although the Krell and the Oppo both use the ESS Sabre 9018 DAC chips, the analog output sections that follow the DACs are certainly different. Of course, some may prefer the sound of one vs. the other, but I mention this because sound quality is not merely an HDMI vs. analog issue.

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post #1733 of 2111 Old 07-14-2014, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by rhale64L7 View Post
Does anybody know what Krells policy on buying used and then getting the upgrade?
Shouldn't be an issue.

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Do you still get the same price?
I would expect so

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Does the used upgraded Foundation now have a full 5 yr warranty in your name?
The warranty clock starts ticking from the date of original purchase (5 years), or from the date of manufacture (6 years). But if you had an upgrade done just prior to the expiration of the warranty, or outside of warranty, I'd expect that work would need to be covered by some sort of warranty independent of the original warranty.

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post #1734 of 2111 Old 07-14-2014, 09:28 PM
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Does anyone know if Krell updated the foundation to allow individual volume control of each channel via serial or tcp?
Presumably you can use the center/surround/back/sub trim value function to adjust individual channel pair volume? ref page 22 of the manual.

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post #1735 of 2111 Old 07-14-2014, 09:29 PM
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So do you get a warranty if you buy used? I want to pull the trigger on that used one on audiogon
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post #1736 of 2111 Old 07-15-2014, 03:04 AM
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So do you get a warranty if you buy used? I want to pull the trigger on that used one on audiogon
The Krell warranty clearly states it applies from date of purchase/date of shipment...i.e. warranty stays with it for that duration, there is NO mention of warranty entitlement only to the original owner. Download the manual, page 23 refers. Make sure you get the original purchase invoice from the seller!

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post #1737 of 2111 Old 07-15-2014, 04:30 AM
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Ok thank you very much.
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post #1738 of 2111 Old 07-15-2014, 06:29 AM
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The Krell warranty clearly states it applies from date of purchase/date of shipment...i.e. warranty stays with it for that duration, there is NO mention of warranty entitlement only to the original owner. Download the manual, page 23 refers. Make sure you get the original purchase invoice from the seller!
That is how I read the warranty as well. Also, there is no language that I could find in the warranty description or elsewhere on Krell's website that stated the warranty is non-transferrable, which one often sees for other products. Nevertheless, because it also does not expressly state that the warranty is transferrable, I would still run this by Krell to make sure and then memorialize your conversation with written notes. In the U.S., at least, the default rules on warranties are governed by the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC), and I don't' recall whether product warranties are transferrable by default, so it's worth getting Krell's confirmation.

On a separate note, in reading the warranty language and related materials, I see reference to obtaining repairs under warranties from local distributors and i notice that in Australia they list the following as an authorized local distributor:

Audio Marketing Pty Ltd.
Unit 14 L
175 Gibbes Street
Chatswood, NSW 2067
TEL 612-9882-3877
FAX 612-9882-3944
info@audiomarketing.com.au
www.audiomarketing.com.au
Nigel Macara

Would it make sense for you to contact this fellow Nigel and inquire about whether Audio Marketing can do any upgrades or repairs for you so you don't have to literally ship the thing half the way around the globe?
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post #1739 of 2111 Old 07-15-2014, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by gulliBELL View Post
Presumably you can use the center/surround/back/sub trim value function to adjust individual channel pair volume? ref page 22 of the manual.
The only controls are the very limited ones on page 19, what you are looking at is feedback. So this is a bad thing for such a priced unit. We love our Krell stuff but this lack of remote control is very bad. Check the manual for the HTS 7.1 to see what real control is. Other units in this price range are fully controllable.
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post #1740 of 2111 Old 07-15-2014, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by rhale64L7 View Post
So do you get a warranty if you buy used? I want to pull the trigger on that used one on audiogon
I would highly recommend contacting Krell on this issue. My understanding is that the warranty is not transferable. I spoke to the guy on Audiogon about this issue and believes that is the policy as well. It is actually the reason I did not buy it (plus I didn't want to deal with the hassle of returning the one that already shipped.)

I spoke to another individual about a month back who was selling one and he said the same thing too.

UPDATE straight from the horse's mouth (I e-mailed Krell on the issue):

"If an end user (AKA: retail customer) trades in a unit that still has warranty coverage remaining to an authorized Krell dealer, that authorized Krell dealer can resell the unit with the remaining warranty intact. However if and end user purchases a unit that still has warranty remaining from another end user, the warranty is not transferable.

Regards,

Patrick Bresnahan
Sales, Technical Support, Service"
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Last edited by Balthazar2k4; 07-15-2014 at 09:31 AM.
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