Krell Foundation Owners Thread - Page 65 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 24Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1921 of 1925 Old 07-26-2014, 08:42 PM
Member
 
oldav's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by gulliBELL View Post

The Halcro makes my speakers dissolve, they just disappear from the room. The Foundation puts them back in the room. Time now to go back and unravel my cabling back to where it was. The Foundation does HT, the Halcro does music.

In closing just bear in mind the synergy the Halcro pre-amp/power amp combo has, the 2 pieces just have an uncanny capacity to yield an end result greater than the individual parts. Which is an unfair advantage the dm8 has over the Foundation when a dm88 is in the mix.
Not terribly surprising in a preamp showdown between the two. A top quality audio only preamp is a wonder to behold.

Quote:
I don't want to sound as if I'm rubbishing the Foundation 7.1, because I'm not. As a one-stop-shop piece it is outstanding value for the performance, and I'm very happy with mine. But it is clearly evident there is better stuff out there if your focus is 2ch, and you're prepared to drop $20k+ to get there. All the more reason to congratulate Krell for what they've delivered in the Foundation.
I feel you did a excellent job on the comparison/review with complete honesty. I also agree with your assessment that Krell has delivered on a great value with the Foundation.

It's funny that albums we may dislike are sometimes excellent for evaluating a system. One I used often was Yello, my wife hated it so much I believe she tossed it before I was able to get it on the server.

BTW, I love your tag line about annoying the wife!
oldav is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1922 of 1925 Old 07-26-2014, 11:10 PM
Senior Member
 
gulliBELL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 367
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldav View Post
BTW, I love your tag line about annoying the wife!
Ex-wife now

"My interest in home theater is not only that it annoys the wife, but if it was, then that would be enough"
gulliBELL is online now  
post #1923 of 1925 Old Yesterday, 03:40 PM
Member
 
Bulgogi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Massachusetts, U.S.A.
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by gulliBELL View Post
I was surprised as well. I was expecting it to be a long night trying a wide variety of different content to try and differentiate only subtle nuances of difference. Much like when comparing different interconnects or speaker cables or power cables because they can be difficult to reliably tell apart (which is why I don't use insanely expensive cables in my setup), and in any event I really don't have much motivation for these sort of tests.

After I wrote that initial piece I went back to the Foundation in pre-amp mode and listened for another hour, because sometimes initial impressions can be off the mark. But the more I listened the more I had to accept the Foundation as a 2ch pre-amp flies at a noticeably lower altitude in the performance airspace than the Halcro. Which is a finding consistent with what Paul McGowan said a few months back in the PS Audio forums, even talking down the sonic attributes of his own products when compared to a quality 2ch dedicated pre-amp.

I don't want to sound as if I'm rubbishing the Foundation 7.1, because I'm not. As a one-stop-shop piece it is outstanding value for the performance, and I'm very happy with mine. But it is clearly evident there is better stuff out there if your focus is 2ch, and you're prepared to drop $20k+ to get there. All the more reason to congratulate Krell for what they've delivered in the Foundation.
Thank you very much for the time and effort you put into this comparison and review! It's really helpful to read a comparison like yours that was obviously executed in the proper manner.

Though I don't hear what you are describing in the Krell, it's all relative of course, and to me the results aren't shocking when you consider what you are using for comparison. I have always been a preamp kind of guy. I have still not heard a dedicated 2 channel system sound better than when I had my Conrad Johnson Premier 17LS tube preamp hooked up to the CJ MF2250 ss power amp. And the 17LS, while more expensive than the Krell (given that it was a preamp-only and was $4,200 back in 2000), was nowhere near the price of your Halcro even if adjusted for inflation. I'm not even sure that I consider speakers as central to a system's overall musicality as I do a preamp (or preamp stage in a processor or integrated amp).

What's interesting to me is that I hear much of what you describe in your Halcro when using the Foundation as a preamp. I agree with both you and rhale that the soundstage is not very deep (at least with the Oppo analog input), but I find it very wide and enveloping, with imaging that makes the speakers vanish, to the point that I often have to confirm that the center and rear speakers are not on. And, I find it very musically engaging with my CJ MF2250. With the HDMI input, I do find the soundstange deeper, but not particularly wide, and with the coax input, I get the depth of the HMDI input with a wider soundstage, but not quite as wide as the analog inputs. I also find that internal DACs in the Foundation produce a smoother, somewhat richer texture than with the Oppo. To a certain extent, I prefer one over the other based on the recording I have chosen to listen to.

Your Halcro must be wonderful indeed! I am immune from an audio-nervosa reaction for now, though, as I find the Foundation quite magical for 2 channel music, especially given it's price and synergies in my system. Also, it's relatively simple to add a preamp with a theater loop back into the system if I ever feel the "need" in the future . . . and my dear wife allows it! Oh, and 20 large for a preamp may be a bit out of reach for me even if my dear wife were to allow it.

Thanks again for taking the time to do this. It's this kind of interaction that makes the hobby interesting, beyond the sheer joy of listening to music that is.
gulliBELL likes this.

Last edited by Bulgogi; Yesterday at 03:54 PM.
Bulgogi is offline  
post #1924 of 1925 Old Yesterday, 04:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
rhale64L7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Amherst,OH
Posts: 1,037
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Liked: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulgogi View Post
Thank you very much for the time and effort you put into this comparison and review! It's really helpful to read a comparison like yours that was obviously executed in the proper manner.

Though I don't hear what you are describing in the Krell, it's all relative of course, and to me the results aren't shocking when you consider what you are using for comparison. I have always been a preamp kind of guy. I have still not heard a dedicated 2 channel system sound better than when I had my Conrad Johnson Premier 17LS tube preamp hooked up to the CJ MF2250 ss power amp. And the 17LS, while more expensive than the Krell (given that it was a preamp-only and was $4,200 back in 2000), was nowhere near the price of your Halcro even if adjusted for inflation. I'm not even sure that I consider speakers as central to a system's overall musicality as I do a preamp (or preamp stage in a processor or integrated amp).

What's interesting to me is that I hear much of what you describe in your Halcro when using the Foundation as a preamp. I agree with both you and rhale that the soundstage is not very deep (at least with the Oppo analog input), but I find it very wide and enveloping, with imaging that makes the speakers vanish, to the point that I often have to confirm that the center and rear speakers are not on. And, I find it very musically engaging with my CJ MF2250. With the HDMI input, I do find the soundstange deeper, but not particularly wide, and with the coax input, I get the depth of the HMDI input with a wider soundstage, but not quite as wide as the analog inputs. I also find that internal DACs in the Foundation produce a smoother, somewhat richer texture than with the Oppo. To a certain extent, I prefer one over the other based on the recording I have chosen to listen to.

Your Halcro must be wonderful indeed! I am immune from an audio-nervosa reaction for now, though, as I find the Foundation quite magical for 2 channel music, especially given it's price and synergies in my system. Also, it's relatively simple to add a preamp with a theater loop back into the system if I ever feel the "need" in the future . . . and my dear wife allows it! Oh, and 20 large for a preamp may be a bit out of reach for me even if my dear wife were to allow it.

Thanks again for taking the time to do this. It's this kind of interaction that makes the hobby interesting, beyond the sheer joy of listening to music that is.
I also wonder if the preamp amp synergy is just awesome with the two Halcro products.

I bought a Citation amp a while back and thought it was forward sounding to the point I sold it about 4 months later. I was talking on the Internet and if I remember correctly I was actually talking back and forth with the designer of both. He said on its own with other brand preamps it could sound forward. He said the amp and preamp were voiced to sound perfect together. This would be the Citation amp with the preamp that got all the great reviews. I believe it was the Citation 7.1 which was a four channel amp.

Not saying you didnt hear what you did at all. I would suspect you did. What I am saying is hopefully when I get the Foundation and Chorus that I may get that it might bring it a little closer. At least I would like to hope.
rhale64L7 is online now  
post #1925 of 1925 Old Yesterday, 11:46 PM
Senior Member
 
gulliBELL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 367
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulgogi View Post

Your Halcro must be wonderful indeed!... Oh, and 20 large for a preamp may be a bit out of reach for me even if my dear wife were to allow it.
I wouldn't be surprised if Halcro, now under new management, might change direction away from the previous cost-no-object product models. They are no doubt working on new products, but what they are working on I have no idea. We might see a more affordable Halcro pre-amp in the future, I can't wait to see what they have in store!

"My interest in home theater is not only that it annoys the wife, but if it was, then that would be enough"
gulliBELL is online now  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Tags
Denon Avp A1hdci Ultra Reference A V Network Streaming Preamplifier

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off