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post #1 of 24 Old 08-09-2013, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm shopping for receiver and amp if required. Pardon for the miss communication.

Hoping to get a few suggestions. I don't really know anything at all about amps recievers at all. I bought a pair of Polk TSx 550T. I just want a stereo system for now. I don't want to add a sub/center etc right now but I would like to expand to a 5.1 system in the long run. I'm not interested in 5.1+ systems at the moment.

These are my immediate needs to power:
http://www.polkaudio.com/products/tsx550t

I don't know about amp reciever features but I'm interested in things/features that integrate with a HTPC system well... like CEC, wifi remote, wifi streaming... other things? I also want to appropriately power these things so I can enjoy them the best/get good clean sound out of them.

Price wise I can go up to around 800... I want something that isn't junk that I can grow into.

Thanks for any help you can offer.


Speaker specs:
Driver Complement
Tweeter
Quantity 1
Diameter 1" (2.54cm)
Type silk/polymer Dynamic Balance dome
Mid / Woofer
Quantity 2
Diameter 5 1/4" (13.34cm)
Type Dynamic Balance bi-laminate cones
Subwoofer
Quantity 2
Diameter 8" (20.32cm)
Type Dynamic Balance bi-laminate cones
Electrical
Total Frequency Response 26Hz-25kHz
Upper -3dB Limit 24kHz kHz
Lower -3dB Limit 36Hz Hz
Nominal Impedance 8 ohms
Efficiency 91 dB
Recommended Amplifier Power 20-300 watts per channel
Inputs Dual gold-plated binding posts
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post #2 of 24 Old 08-09-2013, 02:43 PM
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It sounds like you're shopping for a receiver not just an amplifier. If $800 is your limit you might be able to find a good deal on some Denon or Marantz units that are on sale because the new lines have been released.
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post #3 of 24 Old 08-09-2013, 02:47 PM
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Denon AVR-X2000. It's a great receiver that will last you a long time.

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post #4 of 24 Old 08-09-2013, 03:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Corrected what I could from my phone. Yes a receiver is what I want. Will I also need an amp to power these? Or is that receiver dependent?
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post #5 of 24 Old 08-09-2013, 03:06 PM
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A receiver is a combination unit that has an amplifier, preamp, often a tuner, audio/video switer and more. Pair that up with your source like a CD or Blu Ray player and you are set.

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post #6 of 24 Old 08-09-2013, 08:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, the source is in the bag I guess.

I guess the primary question(s) is will a receiver power these speakers appropriately? They aren't the most crazy things out there power wise, I just don't know. My first goal is to get a receiver that can push these things with finesse and gusto and in future push 5.1.

I've set my budget at around 800, mostly arbitrarily, again because I don't know. If the towers can receive up to 300 Watts should I be looking to feed them that? Where is the balance point power wise and budget wise.

And yes, bonus features like wifi streaming/remotes, bluetooth streaming/remotes etc are nice but primary concern is making sure I have something to grow into etc. No gimmicks required, just useful basics.

I hope this cleans things up.... too bad I can't change the sbject line. lol Forever a noob now.
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post #7 of 24 Old 08-09-2013, 08:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BllDo View Post

Denon AVR-X2000. It's a great receiver that will last you a long time.

I read up on the receiver a little bit. With a two speaker system that I have would Bi-amping (which I just read a bit on) be worth the time?

Also, how would the cross over stuff work in this setup? Does the receiver handle that or is that something the speaker does?
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post #8 of 24 Old 08-09-2013, 08:26 PM
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Get a receiver with pre-outs for at least the front channels so you could at least add a more powerful poweramp in the future if you wanted to.
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post #9 of 24 Old 08-09-2013, 08:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post

Get a receiver with pre-outs for at least the front channels so you could at least add a more powerful poweramp in the future if you wanted to.

This might sound dumb but how do I know if it has preouts? Is that a setting in the receiver, or a different jack. For instance, the Denon AVRX2000, has pre-outs? I couldn't find anything on the site I was reading about it.
Best Buy AVRX2000
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post #10 of 24 Old 08-09-2013, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nilism View Post

how do I know if it has preouts?

The quickest way is maybe to just search for images of the backs of the receivers and look for any pre out jack section.

The X2000 doesn't have any other than for sub and zone 2... http://www.audiot.co.uk/images/product/main/Denon-AVRX2000-rear.jpg

It looks like you would have to go to at least the X4000 in the Denon range to get pre outs for the front's channels... http://www.avland.co.uk/aasp/denon/1320/avrx4000/rearlrg.jpg

Yamaha tend to offer pre outs lower down in their model range.
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post #11 of 24 Old 08-09-2013, 09:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post

The quickest way is maybe to just search for images of the backs of the receivers and look for any pre out jack section.

The X2000 doesn't have any other than for sub and zone 2... http://www.audiot.co.uk/images/product/main/Denon-AVRX2000-rear.jpg

It looks like you would have to go to at least the X4000 in the Denon range to get pre outs for the front's channels... http://www.avland.co.uk/aasp/denon/1320/avrx4000/rearlrg.jpg

Yamaha tend to offer pre outs lower down in their model range.

I had a look at that, thanks. I looked over the back of the AVRX2000 and didn't find anything, but that's cause there aren't any. lol

So I am still wondering how much power I actually need to run these towers. Manufacturer says 20-300W per channel. Is that peak or RMS to the speaker? Also what does per channel mean? If it's a 5 Way speaker are there 5 channels? or do they really just mean, "per tower" by channel?
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post #12 of 24 Old 08-09-2013, 09:48 PM - Thread Starter
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I looked at yamaha. I was somewhat impressed with the new RX-A830. The 730 was closer to my price point but the 830 has a lot of stuff I might be interested in and I just can't see yself out growing it for a long long time.

Just to throw out another question, is there something similar to the 830's feature set at a lower price point or is Yamaha already doing a great job at features for value?
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post #13 of 24 Old 08-09-2013, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nilism View Post

So I am still wondering how much power I actually need to run these towers.

Use this calculator down near the bottom of the page to get an a proximate idea.

Quote:
Manufacturer says 20-300W per channel. Is that peak or RMS to the speaker?

It's just a general guideline of using a 20 to 300w rated amp.

Quote:
Also what does per channel mean? If it's a 5 Way speaker are there 5 channels? or do they really just mean, "per tower" by channel?

When looking at AVRs, 90w per channel for example doesn't necessarily mean much. Its rating at '2 channels driven' is more significant.
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post #14 of 24 Old 08-09-2013, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nilism View Post

I looked at yamaha. I was somewhat impressed with the new RX-A830. The 730 was closer to my price point but the 830 has a lot of stuff I might be interested in and I just can't see yself out growing it for a long long time.

Just to throw out another question, is there something similar to the 830's feature set at a lower price point or is Yamaha already doing a great job at features for value?

Well the 830 is the lowest model in the Aventage series to offer pre-outs.
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post #15 of 24 Old 08-09-2013, 11:59 PM
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shopping for a receiver. i'm not a knowledgeable audiophile by any means, but like an immersive sound experience. i have some decent equipment already and need a decent receiver to run it. i like gadgets and have lots of hdmi stuff i like to play with. min of 6 hdmi in. hope for something with a good user interface and or tablet app, get frustrated with oldschool button interfaces to program everything. don't have any older stuff with non hdmi or usb hookups. airplay is of possible interest, but also have appletv. have ethernet hookup so i don't think wifi isn't imperative. $550max.


equipment i already own:
60" vizio m601 3d tv
have polk satellite speakers (rm202, rm20, rm10)
yamaha yst-sw315 subwoofer.
stuff to plug in (mac mini, roku, blu ray, apple tv, xbox chromecast, whatever is next)
harmony smart control (wondering if i need to swap it for the ultimate)

receivers i'm looking at
yamaha rx-v675 for $445 ( 6hdmi, this year, new)
yamaha rx-v775 for $519 (6hdmi, this year, new)
yamaha rx-a820 for $399 (8hdmi, last year, open box @newegg)
yamaha rx-a720 for $299 (6`hdmi, last year, open box @newegg)
sony str-dn1040 for $549 (8hdmi, this year, new)
denon avr-x2000 for $500 (7hdmi, this year, new)
-open to anything else in the price range

your thoughts...???
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post #16 of 24 Old 08-10-2013, 12:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nilism View Post

I read up on the receiver a little bit. With a two speaker system that I have would Bi-amping (which I just read a bit on) be worth the time?

Also, how would the cross over stuff work in this setup? Does the receiver handle that or is that something the speaker does?

Bi-amping won't hurt anything, but probably won't get you much benefit. It's not until you using amplifiers with seperate power supplies that you would begin to hear a positive result.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nilism View Post

This might sound dumb but how do I know if it has preouts? Is that a setting in the receiver, or a different jack. For instance, the Denon AVRX2000, has pre-outs? I couldn't find anything on the site I was reading about it.
Best Buy AVRX2000

Given your budget, I wouldn't bother with pre-outs. You will do just fine with a good quality receiver for your budget. Your speakers are 8 ohms and have an efficiency of 91, meaning that they are relatively easy to drive. The X2000 is a great amp for the price, Onkyo also makes some good products.

Here is a link that might muddy the waters for you a little more. rolleyes.gif
http://www.audioholics.com/how-to-shop/best-budget-receiver-2013

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post #17 of 24 Old 08-10-2013, 01:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BllDo View Post

Onkyo also makes some good products.

Ummm... "I want something that isn't junk that I can grow into"
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post #18 of 24 Old 08-10-2013, 05:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post

Ummm... "I want something that isn't junk that I can grow into"

Just heading off to work, so the reply will be short for now. The budget was arbitrary, I'd rather meet my above statement before the budget.

I have to look at Allegro calcs in detail yet.
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post #19 of 24 Old 08-10-2013, 08:03 AM
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Everyone has their personal brand preference. I tend to feel about Yamaha the way you apparently do about Onkyo. Regardless of your personal opinions, all three brands mentioned so far do offer options that would well suit the OP needs. Starting a flame war over your pet brand isn't going to help the OP meet his needs.

Nilism - for $800 - $1000 you will get a very good quality receiver regardless of brand that will meet you needs for a long time. Take a look a few models and see what options they offer and how they might or might not work for you. If you wanted to push your budget +$1000, you can start to get into the realm of separates. There you would buy a preamp/processor unit and a separate amplifier unit. This offers you more flexibility by way of upgrades and will generally get you a better experience. Yes, you can use some receivers with preamp outputs as a pre-pro, but if this is what you are looking for long term and can afford it now, I would just go that route. You will be happier in the long run. Check out Emotiva for separate offerings.

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post #20 of 24 Old 08-10-2013, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeuxCV View Post

shopping for a receiver. i'm not a knowledgeable audiophile by any means, but like an immersive sound experience. i have some decent equipment already and need a decent receiver to run it. i like gadgets and have lots of hdmi stuff i like to play with. min of 6 hdmi in. hope for something with a good user interface and or tablet app, get frustrated with oldschool button interfaces to program everything. don't have any older stuff with non hdmi or usb hookups. airplay is of possible interest, but also have appletv. have ethernet hookup so i don't think wifi isn't imperative. $550max.


equipment i already own:
60" vizio m601 3d tv
have polk satellite speakers (rm202, rm20, rm10)
yamaha yst-sw315 subwoofer.
stuff to plug in (mac mini, roku, blu ray, apple tv, xbox chromecast, whatever is next)
harmony smart control (wondering if i need to swap it for the ultimate)

receivers i'm looking at
yamaha rx-v675 for $445 ( 6hdmi, this year, new)
yamaha rx-v775 for $519 (6hdmi, this year, new)
yamaha rx-a820 for $399 (8hdmi, last year, open box @newegg)
yamaha rx-a720 for $299 (6`hdmi, last year, open box @newegg)
sony str-dn1040 for $549 (8hdmi, this year, new)
denon avr-x2000 for $500 (7hdmi, this year, new)
-open to anything else in the price range

your thoughts...???

I'd give a preference for AVRs with Audyssey Multieq or higher. I just bought an AVR, that's what I did, and I'm happy. I'd look hard at manufacturer refurbs.

Generally you have to move so far up the food chain to get preamp outputs that it probably makes more sense to buy another AVR if you actually ever need that feature.
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post #21 of 24 Old 08-10-2013, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
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I had a PM from what looks to be a reputable long term member to buy used Marantz AV7005, for a decent price. That with something like an XPA-200 would probably be a very nice start, which is great value in the end, coming in at around $500.

The MM7025 seems nice and would keep everything in the same family but the brand might be a bit high end for me, as this amp is about $800
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post #22 of 24 Old 08-10-2013, 09:55 AM
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Today's receivers, unless you spend BIG BUCKS, are severely lacking in the amp department. Getting a receiver with amplifier pre-outs is a no-brainer if you want a base unit with a lot of features plus the ability to add more power down the road. Yes. You CAN go separates but I find that the pre-amps lack in features, again, unless you spend BIG BUCKS on one. Only pre-amp in my price range that I would consider owning is the Marantz AV8801, which is basically a Denon AVR-4520ci without the amps, but it is $3000.

I commented in another post but your cheapest route for a receiver with pre-outs would be Marantz, which is a sister company of Denon and share a lot of internal parts. Getting a decent Marantz ( or Onkyo ) receiver for under $800 refurbished is certainly doable. Of course, you'd be lucky to see 45-60 watts per channel with 7 channels driven with ANY receiver under $1000, but you'd have the ability to pick up something like the new Emotiva XPA-5 for $900 that will deliver an honest 200 watts with 5 channels driven. You WILL NOT find any receiver with those power ratings at ANY price these days. You can use the receiver to drive any additional channels beyond 5.1 and take A LOT of load off the receiver's internal amp section. It is pretty-much what I've been doing for the last 12 years or so since pre-amps don't get near the amount of refreshes as receivers do.

Receivers with a FULL SET pre-outs.

Onkyo > TX-NR7xx
Denon > AVR-3312/3313/x4000
Marantz > SR5xxx

A refurbished Marantz SR5007/8 plus Emotiva XPA-5 ( if you catch one of their sales ) would probably be around $1200 tops.

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post #23 of 24 Old 08-10-2013, 10:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jevans64 View Post

Today's receivers, unless you spend BIG BUCKS, are severely lacking in the amp department. Getting a receiver with amplifier pre-outs is a no-brainer if you want a base unit with a lot of features plus the ability to add more power down the road. Yes. You CAN go separates but I find that the pre-amps lack in features, again, unless you spend BIG BUCKS on one. Only pre-amp in my price range that I would consider owning is the Marantz AV8801, which is basically a Denon AVR-4520ci without the amps, but it is $3000.

I commented in another post but your cheapest route for a receiver with pre-outs would be Marantz, which is a sister company of Denon and share a lot of internal parts. Getting a decent Marantz ( or Onkyo ) receiver for under $800 refurbished is certainly doable. Of course, you'd be lucky to see 45-60 watts per channel with 7 channels driven with ANY receiver under $1000, but you'd have the ability to pick up something like the new Emotiva XPA-5 for $900 that will deliver an honest 200 watts with 5 channels driven. You WILL NOT find any receiver with those power ratings at ANY price these days. You can use the receiver to drive any additional channels beyond 5.1 and take A LOT of load off the receiver's internal amp section. It is pretty-much what I've been doing for the last 12 years or so since pre-amps don't get near the amount of refreshes as receivers do.

Receivers with a FULL SET pre-outs.

Onkyo > TX-NR7xx
Denon > AVR-3312/3313/x4000
Marantz > SR5xxx

A refurbished Marantz SR5007/8 plus Emotiva XPA-5 ( if you catch one of their sales ) would probably be around $1200 tops.

How about going with an XPA-2 and if I wanted to upgrade to 5.1 or 7.1 I could add a 5 for big power all around? If the Marantz AV7005 thing worked out I think I'd be in good shape with lots of flexibility and scalability of the system. Also, I feel like completely pulling the amps away from the pre/pro side is a good choice.
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post #24 of 24 Old 08-10-2013, 09:00 PM - Thread Starter
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accidental repost
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