Denon 2113CI problems, am I the idiot or is it broke? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 08-14-2013, 07:33 PM - Thread Starter
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I got my 2113 in 2 weeks ago.

My ARX bookshelves arrived (A1b) and the rest will be here any day now.

Problem:

#1) I have to get to about "25" on the dial before I can hear any sound. For day-day listening I'm having it between 55-80 on the dial depending on the music. Anything below the 55 seems soft.

#2) I have a MAC and it used to be routed through the TV. I tried to route it through the AVR and no dice. I finally got video but I cannot get sound. I HAVE run the Audyssey for the time being. No matter what I try, I can get video on the TV but no sound if I use the HDMI on my mac to ANY hdmi on the Denon.

3#) When I used my netflix through the WII using the analog option L/R and video, I can get video to the TV via the HDMI output and I get sound. the BAD: The lip sync is horrible. WTF is up w/ that. I had an old HK and ran the video to the TV and the analog to the old receiver and things sync'd up fine.

#4) Same as above but I used the analog output on the 2113 to the analog video input on the TV. The lip sync is still way off.


The 2113 was a refurb. I'm starting to have some buyers remorse. I have had it in my possession about 11 days on the 30 day return but I"m wondering if the item is defective. I got the 2113 as I read about the sound quality and reliability. I read several posts about the newer Onkyo having issues, same w/ the Yamaha and that the Denon supposedly had better audio quality. Since my hearing sucks w/ movie dialogue that was a big concern.

I'm wondering if I should get a refund and find another HK.

Thoughts????

BTW, the ARX sound really awesome, can't wait for the rest to arrive. biggrin.gif

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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post #2 of 22 Old 08-15-2013, 07:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Well I've been reading the manual and I believe I've followed all the instructions but I'm hoping I'm over looking something simple. It appears that you have to go through the set up screen everytime you want change the video source vs just selecting the buttons on the remote. Maybe I'm not getting it.

It was suggested in a seperate thread, when I mentioned that I got the 2113, that the Marantz 5007 would be better. If they are made by the same parent company I worry about the complexity of use.

I found a HK AVR 3650 on ebay sold by Harmon-Audio. 110w/chn 7.1. I did notice the Denon 2113 has no cooling fan, whereas the HK 3650 and the Marantz do. I also found a Yamaha HTR-7065 on A4L.com. I paid 399ish for the 2113 so I'd like to not go much above that if possible if I need to use a different receiver.

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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post #3 of 22 Old 08-15-2013, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
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I called the 855-693-3666 Denon # and a rep gave me some info:

The volume question I had is normal.

He suggested a micro processor reset:

1-Power off w/ the power button on the front panel.

2- Hold the buttons + / - on the left simulantiously and while holding them, press the power button once. While holding all three, the front panel will flash approximately 4-four times, then release the buttons.

I already did the firmware update.

I'll update the findings later should someone else have a lip sync issue.

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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post #4 of 22 Old 08-15-2013, 05:53 PM
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Much of what you're asking about is discussed in posts #3-6 of the Denon AVR-XX13 Owner's thread linked below ...

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1409431/the-official-denon-avr-xx13-model-owners-thread-faq/0_100

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post #5 of 22 Old 08-15-2013, 08:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Much of what you're asking about is discussed in posts #3-6 of the Denon AVR-XX13 Owner's thread linked below ...

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1409431/the-official-denon-avr-xx13-model-owners-thread-faq/0_100

I didn't see anything about the volume/sound level but Denon said it was normal.


Quote:
3. If there have been no previous HDMI handshake issues with either a cable or sat box connected via HDMI to the AVR, and suddenly either audio or video issues start occuring with the cable/sat box, check to see when the last time the cable/sat box got a firmware update and whether the issue started immediately after the update as firmware updates to the cable/sat box have been known to cause both audio (dropouts) and video (loss of GUI) issues. The work around until another firmware update can be issued to the cable/sat box to resolve the issue is to either connect cable/sat box (HDMI) directly to the TV with cable/sat box (optical) to the AVR, or cable/sat box (component/optical) to the AVR.

4. If there is a sudden loss of power to the unit, while powered ON, it's possible the Audyssey configuration will revert to the previous configuration, although other settings should remain current (noted by a 3313CI owner). If it becomes necessary to do a soft reset, be sure to set the unit to Standby first and then remove the power cord for a few minutes.

5. Although not always repeatable, a few owners (2113CI, 2313CI) have noted that occasionally after playing a network audio source (eg. Pandora, Airplay), changing to a different source (eg. CBL/SAT, BD) results in the loss of video from that source. Power cycling (off/on) the AVR will resolve this issue.


I performed the reset per Denon.
All firmware is up to date as of yesterday. I even tried to "update" and it keeps telling me firmware up to date.

After the reset the audio video lip sync wasn't as bad when using the analog Wii input however I was able to make adjustments that worked.

Re #3- So far it won't "handshake" at all w/ my laptop. I can use the HDMI from my Mac to the TV no problem. I CANNOT use the hdmi from my Mac to the AVR 100%. I can get video, great video at that BUT no audio. Everything is set to AUTO and it still happens. I set everything to HDMI, no sound. Went through and made adjustments per the manual and nothing. I read all 174 pages and no resolution.
I have no way to connect the mac video vs audio seperately but why spend good money and still have to jerry-rig my audio components.

Re #4, thats lame resolution. If my car dies randomly and I have to cycle the ignition to get it running again I will repair or replace the defective part and or vehicle.

Re #5, again, lame. Sounds like a quality control issue.

The sound w/ my Arx is great, all 5 speakers work fine and it's plenty clear and loud for my needs.

I'll call Denon again tomorrow to see what else they suggest. I cannot find anything in the manual.

It is unfortunate that the "fix" may be to cycle on/off. Sounds like Windows OS...........
Hopefully it is something simple.

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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post #6 of 22 Old 08-17-2013, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerlifter405 View Post

I didn't see anything about the volume/sound level but Denon said it was normal.

Guess you missed this section on the Master Volume setting ....

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1465528/the-official-2013-denon-e-series-x-series-avr-model-owners-thread-faq/0_100#user_B4

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post #7 of 22 Old 08-17-2013, 08:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Guess you missed this section on the Master Volume setting ....

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1465528/the-official-2013-denon-e-series-x-series-avr-model-owners-thread-faq/0_100#user_B4

Yep smile.gif

But that still doesn't solve the other HDMI issue I'm having. Denon doesn't know either. And while the 2-ch stereo, multi-ch, dolby, etc.. do sound very good, while working out last night the AVR shut off. The volume was at the 70 level. It sounded clear and precise running all 5 speakers. Tone/Bass/Treb were 0 and it was very very hot. I could run my old HK and Sansui a lot higher volume wise w/o shut off.

So either way I'm returning this one.

I'll see if I can find something with a bit more power and it was suggested to find something w/ 2 sub outputs if possible for future growth.

Ac4less has a 3311 w/ some extra power and inputs/outputs. http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/DENAVR3311CI/DENON-AVR-3311CI-7.2-Channel-Network-Home-Theater-Receiver/1.html

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Shop/Specials/Home+specials/VSX-33+REFURBISHED

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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post #8 of 22 Old 08-17-2013, 04:49 PM
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Extra power will be moot and dual sub pre-outs can be replicated by connecting a $5 "Y" splitter RCA cable.

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post #9 of 22 Old 08-17-2013, 09:58 PM - Thread Starter
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What makes the 3311 better than the VSX-33?

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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post #10 of 22 Old 08-18-2013, 05:18 AM
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They are both fine AVRs, the 3311CI can EQ the subwoofer while the VSX-33 cannot. frown.gif

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post #11 of 22 Old 08-18-2013, 10:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

They are both fine AVRs, the 3311CI can EQ the subwoofer while the VSX-33 cannot. frown.gif

The Inuke I'm going to use for my subs has DSP http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=248-6706 and from what Jay was saying that should work to EQ the subs so for now I'm not terribly concerned.

Does the 3311 have a cooling fan?

Aside from doing the HDMI handshake, this one has shut off several times. I'm not sure if it's heat related or not but it very hot when it does. The dial was under 60 each time but I had it in dolby stereo pushing all 5 channels when I was listening. It was even lower when it shut off on the wife twice.

My Arx A5 is 6 ohm and the A1 are 8 ohm nominal and 6 ohm minimum. The 2113 specs show it should be able to handle it but w/ the heat it is producing I'd be concerned either way. It is sitting on a shelf all by itself w/ nothing near it so it has plenty of air flow. I'm guessing it is just a bad refurb.

I wanted to stay under 400 for a AVR but I'd reluctantly go up to 500 if I can find something that will meet my needs and be maintenance free. Its the same reason I eventually went to Macs, simple, easy and it works w/o constant tweaking.

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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post #12 of 22 Old 08-18-2013, 02:57 PM
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No cooling fan in the mid/lower level Denon AVRs 3313 and lower. Also note that although Denon AVRs are designed for 6-ohm speakers, running them in Multi CH Stereo mode is likely to cause it to shut down at higher volume levels as you noted. Also note the heat of the AVR is more often related to the "video chip" and not the amps themselves. Hard to say whether the refurb is a dud or not.

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post #13 of 22 Old 08-18-2013, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

No cooling fan in the mid/lower level Denon AVRs 3313 and lower. Also note that although Denon AVRs are designed for 6-ohm speakers, running them in Multi CH Stereo mode is likely to cause it to shut down at higher volume levels as you noted. Also note the heat of the AVR is more often related to the "video chip" and not the amps themselves. Hard to say whether the refurb is a dud or not.

Since I purchased through Ac4less I was hoping, if I stuck w/ the Denon to get the 3311 they had. Good to know, if possible i'd like a fan if there is going to be cooling issues. As far at the vid-chip, I wonder why it was getting that hot when I was listening to the radio when it shut down.

I'll call Denon and see what they suggest.

At a minimum I'll post my findings.

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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post #14 of 22 Old 08-18-2013, 05:19 PM
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Denon AVRs generally don't have "cooling" issues providing there is sufficient ventilation around the unit and not running at excessive volume levels.

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post #15 of 22 Old 08-19-2013, 05:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Denon AVRs generally don't have "cooling" issues providing there is sufficient ventilation around the unit and not running at excessive volume levels.

Short of putting a fan directly on the unit, ventilation couldn't be any better and music was crisp, clear and volulme was far from excessive. When it shut down w/ my wife listening I know there has to be an issue. If it can't handle the paltry 50-60 absolute on the volume control then I either purchased the wrong AVR for my application or this one is faulty. There was no Red Light indicator flashing either.

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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post #16 of 22 Old 08-19-2013, 07:55 AM
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Refurbs units often have issues which are not found when the products are rapidly gone through with a qwick checkout before reboxing..

IMHO...
I would return the unit...

Just my $0.02... 👍😉
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post #17 of 22 Old 08-19-2013, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by M Code View Post

Refurbs units often have issues which are not found when the products are rapidly gone through with a qwick checkout before reboxing..

IMHO...
I would return the unit...

Just my $0.02... 👍😉

Sending it back.

I found both at nearly the same price; Integra DTR-30.3 A/V or Marantz SR5007?

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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post #18 of 22 Old 08-19-2013, 03:33 PM
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The Marantz as it features the same Audyssey MultEQ XT as does the 2113CI whereas the Integra features only the most basic Audyssey 2EQ found on the lower level Onkyo/Integra models which cannot even EQ the subwoofer.

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post #19 of 22 Old 08-20-2013, 10:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The Marantz as it features the same Audyssey MultEQ XT as does the 2113CI whereas the Integra features only the most basic Audyssey 2EQ found on the lower level Onkyo/Integra models which cannot even EQ the subwoofer.

Ok good to know. I was staying away from Onkyo cause of several threads concerning failures.

Sherbourn has the Sr-120 on sale for http://www.sherbourn.com/products/sr-120-home-theater-receiver and the SR-8100. How do those compare quality wise to the SR5007? I see they lack ethernet connectivity but I can stream on my laptop if I went that route.

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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post #20 of 22 Old 08-22-2013, 08:37 AM - Thread Starter
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SR-120 ordred. The 5007 shows 10% THD at 6 ohms. Couldn't beat the price or the 4ohm specs on the SR-120, $50 bucks cheaper and 5 year warranty NIB.

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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post #21 of 22 Old 08-22-2013, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerlifter405 View Post

SR-120 ordred. The 5007 shows 10% THD at 6 ohms. Couldn't beat the price or the 4ohm specs on the SR-120, $50 bucks cheaper and 5 year warranty NIB.

The Sherbourn AVR is a well-built product..
Designed/assembled @ the same China factory that does Cambridge and NAD products...
We have visited there many times...

Just my $0.02... 👍😉
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post #22 of 22 Old 08-22-2013, 07:32 PM - Thread Starter
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The Sherbourn AVR is a well-built product..
Designed/assembled @ the same China factory that does Cambridge and NAD products...
We have visited there many times...

Just my $0.02... 👍😉

Just about everything is built in china so that doesn't scare me as long it is built to spec. I've read a lot of positive about the Cambridge and NAD so I hope this one fills the bill.

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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