Bought a receiver that was significantly less powered than my speakers... Suggestions on which one? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 8 Old 08-21-2013, 07:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Last October I bought a 7.1 system and speakers for my Home Theater room. I wasn't too knowledgeable on the technology at that point. I ended up getting a great deal on the whole setup, but was constantly wondering why the speakers didn't sound anything like they did in the Magnolia Theatre.

I bought:

2 Energy CF-70 Front Speakers
Energy CC-10 Center Speaker
4 Energy CB-5 Bookshelves for the 7.1
12 inch Klipsch Sub.

The receiver I bought was a Denon 2113-ci.

After talking to a bunch of people about this, it was pointed out to me that my speakers could utilize a 175-200 watt per channel receiver, instead of the current 55 watt per channel I get with the Denon. I went back to Best Buy today, and listened to my speakers with a couple of different medium and high end receivers, and I definitely noticed a HUGE difference between those and the lower wattage receivers.


Anyways, all this leads me to these questions...

A) Is it in my head, or was this receiver really that under-powered for the speakers that anyone who knows audio would recognize?

B) The CF-70's say they can handle up to 300 watts of power. The CB-5's say up to 100 watts. If I get a receiver that lets say has 200 watts per channel, will this damage the speakers that can only do up to a 100 watts, for instance? If so, I should probably ugrade the CB-5's to perhaps the CB-20's.

C) Any suggestions of receivers that would pair well with what I have? I would like to have a good Audyessey system built into it, and would prefer something a little cheaper, perhaps in the $500-$750 range.


Thank you for your time!
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post #2 of 8 Old 08-21-2013, 07:17 PM
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You're not gonna find a receiver that puts out 200 watts per channel and certainly not 200W/channel in a 5.1 setup. You wont need to swap your surrounds because they don't get much content unless your listening to 5.1 concert dvd's/blu rays.

The Pioneer SC receivers seems to have a lot of power in reserve, maybe see if you can get one on sale or clearance.

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post #3 of 8 Old 08-21-2013, 07:41 PM
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If you don't need to purchase at Best Buy you can get the Pioneer SC-1222 and SC-1522 at Costco for $469 and $599 respectively if your local warehouse has it in stock.

Amazon also has the 1222 for around $565.
http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-SC-1222-K-Channel-Network-Receiver/dp/B0083C8B30/ref=pd_sim_sbs_e_3


Mfr links to SC-1222 and SC-1522

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/AV-Receivers/Pioneer+Receivers/SC-1522-K

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/AV-Receivers/Pioneer+Receivers/SC-1222-K

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post #4 of 8 Old 08-22-2013, 01:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Those look great, I've been looking into them. Two issues it seems though, very limited quantities available (I'm going to call in the morning), and also, from what I saw, no Audyssey, which while not a dealbreaker, was something I was hoping for in a receiver as I am not that good at equalizing and on the Denon it was a nice useful feature to have.
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post #5 of 8 Old 08-22-2013, 01:48 AM
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The 2113CI is a 95W AVR and as those speakers are only using < 5W/CH on average has more than enough power. One difference is that in the store they don't run Audyssey which sets the reference level volume to 80/0db and most likely you have run Audyssey. Also if you are using Dyn Volume, try setting it to OFF.

It's also important to realize that if you were to go from the 2113CI (@95W) to using a 200W amp external amp, there would only be a 3db increase in volume which is the point that most folks can notice any difference in volume changing so you don't buy much by doubling the power.

For more helpful information on your new 2113CI, review posts #3-6 in the 2012 Denon AVR-XX13 Owner's thread linked in my sig. Also review the Audyssey 101/FAQ Guide as well.

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post #6 of 8 Old 08-22-2013, 02:29 AM
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JDS is correct. The problem is in your expectations. You are comparing two systems in different places at different times and expecting the one at the store to sound better. So it does. Nothing wrong with your AVR. It is good unit. Spend some time working with speaker placement and room acoustics. Amplification simply isn't your problem.
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post #7 of 8 Old 08-22-2013, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok thank you for the feedback. I have been convinced for the last few weeks that I should upgrage the receiver. I'm still not entirely knowledgeable on all of the audio terms, but I literally had a audioholic friend laugh at me for what he said was a low-mid grade receiver with somewhat high end speakers. He used the example of how something is only as strong as it's weakest link, and that my receiver was definitely it.

Don't get me wrong, I really do like the sound from my system. What I noticed when I went to Magnolia was the difference in, I dont know what it would be called, maybe kick? It's not the volume that I care about, mine gets plenty loud, in fact well over what I would typically use it for. It was something else, that's why I figured it might be in my head. But the best buy guy that helped me out with price matching my home theater last summer was pointing out the differences to me, such as how the cones on the cf-70's were barely moving with my receiver vs the higher end ones at the same volume, and just an overall sound difference that was definitely noticeable.

It is definitely noted though what you guys said about the calibration, room size, acoustics, interference by objects in my room, etc. I did not think about that and I'm sure that plays a good amount into the feeling I have had recently, but I do just get a feeling that my system could handle a lot more punch, strength, boom, whatever you want to call it than it has now.
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post #8 of 8 Old 08-23-2013, 02:29 PM
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Any higher end product from Denon, Pioneer, Onkyo or Yamaha should be able to drive your speakers. I do not know your Receiver, but to me, I usually don't cheap out on Amp, and try to get the ones in the top 3rd of each company's range (being Pioneer, Denon, Onkyo, etc...).

Pioneer SC Amps are fantastic and probably better value per wattage than Denon (which is also great). Do NOT be put off by lack of Audyssey in Pioneer, they have their own auto-tune setup call MCACC that to some is even better than Audyssey and usually gets fantastic reviews.

The ONLY thing you can do is to bring one home and audition to see if it gives you what *you* perceive to be HiFi sound! Just make sure you have some return policy to play with.

PS. I just looked at the Denon specs, not too bad, and it should drive most speakers but I don't know how power hungry you speakers are. One crude way to gauge Amp power is to look at the weight, *usually* the heavier the receiver, the Power Supply is larger hence has more power and headroom. The one step-up from yours (3313ci) goes up by 7 pounds and the one above that is 10 pounds heavier! Which is quite significant, so you might have just bought one step down of what you should have. BTW, this is not always true, and Digital amps are lighter, and this is just one way of guessing.

Pioneer Elite Kuro 111FD, Elite BDP-05FD, Elite 72TXV, B&W 805/XTC/M1.
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