Krell vs Classe vs McIntosh - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 59 Old 08-23-2013, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello everyone,

I need help here, please.

I'm looking at two Amps from Krell. The Evolution 2250e and the Evolution 302e. From Classe I'm looking at the Delta Series CA-M600.
And from McIntosh, I'm looking at the MC452.

I have listen to the McIntosh MC452, Krell 2250e and the Classe CA-M600. I was told by the rep of Krell that the 302e its by far better than the 2250e. But the price is also much higher.

they all sound great. And I would like to get a non bias feed back please.

I also wanted to share this with you all. I have two sets of speakers that I have.

Focal Grande Utopia speakers. Those are for listening to classical music, a little jazz and classic rock. I mainly listen to them with my family, a few friends.

I also have Definitive Technology BP7000SC Speakers. These are use two to three times a year. When we have parties. Why do I use these speaker over my Focals? Because in case people get a little drunk I don't want to damage my Focal, and the Definitive's are plenty powerful for dance music.

Can any of you help?smile.gif
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post #2 of 59 Old 08-23-2013, 10:33 AM
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IMO you can not go wrong with McIntosh as they keep on running and as far as I know I have never seen a failed amp from them notice I did say amp.
I think when you reach this quality all three would be an audiophiles dream but the McIntosh does post specs at 2ohm and that would indicate they are built to take whatever you throw at them not that the others would not its just they spec out to 4 ohm.
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post #3 of 59 Old 08-23-2013, 10:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Oztech,

Thank you for your feed back. Yes I noticed that about the McIntosh. They do display the specs at 2 ohms, which I like.

Thank you.
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post #4 of 59 Old 08-23-2013, 10:55 AM
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From what I've read the 452 seems like a sweet spot in the Mac's SS amp line which I would love to have.

Main Kef: Reference 205/2 & 202/2c, Surrounds: Kef XQ40, Velodyne Optimum 12, Integra DHC 80.3, Oppo BDP-103, Bryston 4Bsst2, Parasound Halo A31. Second B&W: 685 (3), CCM618, Def Tech Powerfield 1500, Onkyo TX-NR1008, DBP 2010, Samsung BD-C7900, Zone 2 Klipsch AW650. Sitting still CCM616, Kef...
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post #5 of 59 Old 08-23-2013, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
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jima4a,

So you also like the Mac better?
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post #6 of 59 Old 08-23-2013, 11:08 AM
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I am a fan of Krell so the 302e would be of great interest. Also the Classe' 600 monoblocks are highly regarded so another great choice. The Macs are likely a bit warmer so I think for Kef Reference or B&W Diamond, that would be an excellent match. I don't have any first hand knowledge with any of them but based on what I've read and discussions with folks I trust, the Mac would be my choice for my speakers. Not sure where the Focals lie. If your speakers are a bit laid back then perhaps the Classe' but all great options.

Main Kef: Reference 205/2 & 202/2c, Surrounds: Kef XQ40, Velodyne Optimum 12, Integra DHC 80.3, Oppo BDP-103, Bryston 4Bsst2, Parasound Halo A31. Second B&W: 685 (3), CCM618, Def Tech Powerfield 1500, Onkyo TX-NR1008, DBP 2010, Samsung BD-C7900, Zone 2 Klipsch AW650. Sitting still CCM616, Kef...
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post #7 of 59 Old 08-23-2013, 01:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you Jim
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post #8 of 59 Old 08-23-2013, 02:34 PM
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You are looking at three great amps, so quite honestly it's hard to go wrong with either of them. But I'm curious, since you are considering the CA-M600, why are you looking at the MC452 from McIntosh rather than the MC601? I'd think it would be more comparable power wise.
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post #9 of 59 Old 08-23-2013, 02:47 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm sorry for the Classe is actually the 2300 not CA-M600. I want a 2 channel amp. If price was no object I would go with a mono blocks.
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post #10 of 59 Old 08-23-2013, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOUIE0227 View Post

I'm sorry for the Classe is actually the 2300 not CA-M600. I want a 2 channel amp. If price was no object I would go with a mono blocks.

Ah, ok. That makes more sense. smile.gif
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post #11 of 59 Old 08-23-2013, 05:35 PM
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The pre-Asian Delta series Classé amplifiers are in class of their own.

Having auditioned both the monoblock and 5 channel versions I can say
they are truly amazing.

Still, wanting to keep with a monoblock construction 5 channel amp, and
needing 9 channels of amplification in my biwired setup (Classe CP700 stereo
preamp in processor bypass mode for those MoFi adn Universal Japan SACDs on
my Signature 8s, hehe) I believe 2x of the Bryston 9B series are the only worthy
successor when the caps fry in my 2x Sherbourn 5/1500A machines.
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post #12 of 59 Old 08-24-2013, 11:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you Bobpaule,

I was leaning towards the Classe amps, but I have heard the Krell 302e for the first time, and I must say I was very impressed. I also heard that the company is not the same anymore since the founder left or was force out. The McIntosh was very nice as well.
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post #13 of 59 Old 08-25-2013, 11:17 AM
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Just another thought after reading through the posts here, you mentioned wanting a 2 channel amp. another amp to perhaps give a little thought to would be the Bryston 14B-SST Squared. it's more powerful then even the 452. I'm just not sure where it stacks up price wise against the McIntosh however it'll be cheaper then the Krell as the Evolution series is priced at a whole other level then Classe, McIntosh and Bryston.

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post #14 of 59 Old 08-25-2013, 05:59 PM
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How efficient are your speakers? I'd try to listen to each amp to see if it compliments my speakers. This is something you want to do one time.
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post #15 of 59 Old 08-25-2013, 06:55 PM
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Those Utopia's show to be 94db which is very efficient but they also state they dip to 3ohm just something to consider.
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post #16 of 59 Old 08-26-2013, 04:23 AM
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The 3 amps that you mentioned are very nice, and I don't think you can go wrong with either one that you select. If money was no object, then the Krell 302e would be a very nice choice. That thing is a beast along with a beast price smile.gif. However, you may also want to look into build quality, warranty, and support because that's very important when you are talking about spending this kind of money. Since your interest is in two channel amps and you like the fact that some of the amps, Krell 302e and McIntosh 452, can handle loads down to 2 ohms, you should also look at the Anthem P2. The Anthem P2 is a Stereo Amp with the following specs: 325 watts into 8 ohms, 500 watts into 4 ohms, and 675 watts into 2 ohms.

Good luck to you.
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post #17 of 59 Old 08-28-2013, 08:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post

Just another thought after reading through the posts here, you mentioned wanting a 2 channel amp. another amp to perhaps give a little thought to would be the Bryston 14B-SST Squared. it's more powerful then even the 452. I'm just not sure where it stacks up price wise against the McIntosh however it'll be cheaper then the Krell as the Evolution series is priced at a whole other level then Classe, McIntosh and Bryston.

Rod,

Thank you for your input. I wanted to share that I did take a look at their website and found my local dealer here. I also wanted to share that I had a chance to listen to Mark Levinson and it was nice. Not the greatest. Not like in the old days. I don't know why

Thank you
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post #18 of 59 Old 08-28-2013, 08:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

Those Utopia's show to be 94db which is very efficient but they also state they dip to 3ohm just something to consider.

Hi Oztech,

Do you think it might be a problem when it dips to 3 ohms?

Thank you
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post #19 of 59 Old 08-28-2013, 08:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninja12 View Post

The 3 amps that you mentioned are very nice, and I don't think you can go wrong with either one that you select. If money was no object, then the Krell 302e would be a very nice choice. That thing is a beast along with a beast price smile.gif. However, you may also want to look into build quality, warranty, and support because that's very important when you are talking about spending this kind of money. Since your interest is in two channel amps and you like the fact that some of the amps, Krell 302e and McIntosh 452, can handle loads down to 2 ohms, you should also look at the Anthem P2. The Anthem P2 is a Stereo Amp with the following specs: 325 watts into 8 ohms, 500 watts into 4 ohms, and 675 watts into 2 ohms.

Good luck to you.

Hi Ninja,

Found them and wow very impressive. What are your thoughts on the P5?
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post #20 of 59 Old 08-28-2013, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOUIE0227 View Post

Hi Oztech,

Do you think it might be a problem when it dips to 3 ohms?

Thank you
I would strongly consider an amp that is well rated to 2 ohms for a speaker of that magnitude since it will be running full range unfortunately I could not find a chart showing the impedance curve to know exactly where that dip resides but most likely its near the crossover point for the woofer and since low impedance for the upper Hz limit is not hard on an amp in the lower range it separates the great from the good.
Did they provide you with a chart from the mfg with impedance curve and phase shift?
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post #21 of 59 Old 08-28-2013, 09:26 AM
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You asked for non biased feedback. Mine is that all these amps and others will do the same thing the same way. Pick whichever one suits your fancy.
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post #22 of 59 Old 08-28-2013, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

I would strongly consider an amp that is well rated to 2 ohms for a speaker of that magnitude since it will be running full range unfortunately I could not find a chart showing the impedance curve to know exactly where that dip resides but most likely its near the crossover point for the woofer and since low impedance for the upper Hz limit is not hard on an amp in the lower range it separates the great from the good.
Did they provide you with a chart from the mfg with impedance curve and phase shift?

I did not get one from the dealer where I got the Focal speakers. But called the rep for Focal and he said he can definitely email me that info. He said the diagram is very specific and to the point.

Thank you for your advice
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post #23 of 59 Old 08-28-2013, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOUIE0227 View Post

Hi Ninja,

Found them and wow very impressive. What are your thoughts on the P5?
The P5 has the same specs as the P2. I don't see them having any problem driving any speaker. If you can get a chance to listen to either and/or both, you should definitely do that.
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post #24 of 59 Old 08-29-2013, 07:25 AM
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Since your interest is in two channel amps and you like the fact that some of the amps, Krell 302e and McIntosh 452, can handle loads down to 2 ohms, you should also look at the Anthem P2.Jim would like a mac:)65pFOd
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post #25 of 59 Old 08-29-2013, 07:44 AM
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Since we are making other recommendations, I can recommend the Yamaha P3500S. It delivers at least 500 watts per channel into two ohms (20hz-50Khz (0db, -1.5db) with THD of .1%. The 8 ohm rating is 350 watts per channel, the 4 ohm rating is 450 watts. It is heavy and rugged and costs about $500.00. I can recommend it because I own one. I use it to power my stage piano. I don't need anything like that for my home audio but it would do a superb job - easily as good or better than the home audio amps you prefer. The only downside is that it won't fit in the typical spaces a 14" wide home audio amp will fit because it has an 18" rack mount chassis.
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post #26 of 59 Old 08-29-2013, 09:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ninja12 View Post

The P5 has the same specs as the P2. I don't see them having any problem driving any speaker. If you can get a chance to listen to either and/or both, you should definitely do that.
I'm actually going to listen to it tonight, amongst other amps. They have the P5 there, so I'm looking forward to it.
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post #27 of 59 Old 08-29-2013, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariabx1e View Post

Since your interest is in two channel amps and you like the fact that some of the amps, Krell 302e and McIntosh 452, can handle loads down to 2 ohms, you should also look at the Anthem P2.Jim would like a mac:)65pFOd
I'm actually going to listen to it tonight, amongst other amps. They have the P5 there, so I'm looking forward to it.
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post #28 of 59 Old 08-29-2013, 09:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post

Since we are making other recommendations, I can recommend the Yamaha P3500S. It delivers at least 500 watts per channel into two ohms (20hz-50Khz (0db, -1.5db) with THD of .1%. The 8 ohm rating is 350 watts per channel, the 4 ohm rating is 450 watts. It is heavy and rugged and costs about $500.00. I can recommend it because I own one. I use it to power my stage piano. I don't need anything like that for my home audio but it would do a superb job - easily as good or better than the home audio amps you prefer. The only downside is that it won't fit in the typical spaces a 14" wide home audio amp will fit because it has an 18" rack mount chassis.

To be honest with you, I wasn't thinking about a Yamaha. Although I do have an old Yamaha EQ and still works great. The Yamaha amp you're talking about is it a 2 channel amp?
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post #29 of 59 Old 08-29-2013, 12:26 PM
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Yes sir. It is a high quality pro audio stereo amplifier that is good down to 2 ohms, is as clean as a whistle. And since they are made and sold by the 10's of thousands compared to exotic home amplifiers, they are quite affordable. The pro audio amps have the advantage of being more rugged than home audio amps and most of them, including this one, have flat frequency response and inaudible distortion just like any high quality home audio amp. I would use it in my system if I needed an amp. My receiver handles my system just tine. You can read about the Yamaha S series here.
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post #30 of 59 Old 08-29-2013, 03:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes sir. It is a high quality pro audio stereo amplifier that is good down to 2 ohms, is as clean as a whistle. And since they are made and sold by the 10's of thousands compared to exotic home amplifiers, they are quite affordable. The pro audio amps have the advantage of being more rugged than home audio amps and most of them, including this one, have flat frequency response and inaudible distortion just like any high quality home audio amp. I would use it in my system if I needed an amp. My receiver handles my system just tine. You can read about the Yamaha S series here.

Very impressive; and an affordable price.
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