Pioneer Elite SC-68, SC-77, SC-79 or Denon 4250CI? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 121 Old 08-28-2013, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Looking for a few AV and I am in-between the above mentioned AV receivers...

  • Zones: 5CH HT, 2CH Kitchen, 2CH Bedroom, 2CH Bathroom
  • Speakers:
  • Front: B&W 804S, Center: B&W XTC, Rear/Kitchen: B&W M1, Sub: B&W PV1, Bed/Bath: In-celling
  • TVs: 4 (2 can be operated at same time)
  • Source Feeds: HD Box (2), iPod, IPad, HTPC, Internet Radio, Pandora, CD/Bluray
  • Networking: Control sound from anywhere in the house, turn on/off, change sources, volume control, and ability to change speakers (5 ch, 7ch, all, etc...)


So, for those purposes, I am now in-between Pioneer Elite SC-68, SC-77, SC-79 or Denon 4520CI? I am more familiar with Pioneer products and like them, but Denon is also fantastic all around. I cannot figure out if new SC-series has much advantage over old, and at this point the SC-68 looks like a better deal (if discounted) over new SC-77. SC-79. But how does Denon compare? I guess they all can provide the power I need for my system, but which is more flexible, easier to manage in a distributed system? Pioneer has a cool App that might tip the scale but I like to know more about Denon and what it could do?

Any help is appreciated.

PS. Attached is the diagram of my place

Pioneer Elite Kuro 111FD, Elite BDP-05FD, Elite 72TXV, B&W 805/XTC/M1.
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post #2 of 121 Old 08-28-2013, 08:40 PM
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Those are all great models I suppose it would come down to what deal you can get personally I like the SC-77 for its features and remote capabilities using an iPad/iPhone and so far the D3 amps keep impressing me on installs.
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post #3 of 121 Old 08-29-2013, 11:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, I found an old stock SC-68, and a demo Denon 4520CI for the same price (brand new Denon is $400 or so more where I am). What do you guys recommend? Which is the better deal?

Thanks

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post #4 of 121 Old 08-30-2013, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by alexb76 View Post

Ok, I found an old stock SC-68, and a demo Denon 4520CI for the same price (brand new Denon is $400 or so more where I am). What do you guys recommend? Which is the better deal?

Thanks
Take a listen to each, personally I like the more natural/neutral sound of the 4520 over the SC-68. The build, 3 year warranty not tied to specific dealer, feature set, and XT32 room equalization make for a very flexible AVR for your situation. I compared the SC-77 to the 4520, went with the 4520 because I could get quotes from non-local authorized dealers that made the final price a real deal. smile.gif

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post #5 of 121 Old 08-30-2013, 07:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

Take a listen to each, personally I like the more natural/neutral sound of the 4520 over the SC-68. The build, 3 year warranty not tied to specific dealer, feature set, and XT32 room equalization make for a very flexible AVR for your situation. I compared the SC-77 to the 4520, went with the 4520 because I could get quotes from non-local authorized dealers that made the final price a real deal. smile.gif

I can't listen to both side by side, and also don't have a demo SC-68 around, although I could listen to 4520.

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post #6 of 121 Old 08-30-2013, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by alexb76 View Post

I can't listen to both side by side, and also don't have a demo SC-68 around, although I could listen to 4520.
Just a thought most dealers ( real hi-fi ) will have demo units they can let you try at home with the promise you will purchase one of them it saves you both on returns and makes the sell since we all hear things slightly different some for the better some not so much.
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post #7 of 121 Old 08-30-2013, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by oztech View Post

Just a thought most dealers ( real hi-fi ) will have demo units they can let you try at home with the promise you will purchase one of them it saves you both on returns and makes the sell since we all hear things slightly different some for the better some not so much.

If it's an item in stock. SC-68 has to be ordered, since it's 2012 model.

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post #8 of 121 Old 08-30-2013, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by alexb76 View Post

I can't listen to both side by side, and also don't have a demo SC-68 around, although I could listen to 4520.
Thats not unexpected since that is the past model, just listen/operate the Denon 4520 vs the equivalent Pioneer SC-77/79 at same or different stores. See which you prefer.

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post #9 of 121 Old 08-30-2013, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

Thats not unexpected since that is the past model, just listen/operate the Denon 4520 vs the equivalent Pioneer SC-77/79 at same or different stores. See which you prefer.

+1

all the models mentioned are excellent choices, so which one to buy depends on which one a person prefers in features and sound. and sound differences are heavily influenced by the room EQ systems.

alex,

if you really want to make a fair comparison, you'll have to find a way to compare Pioneer MCACC with Audyssey, and the only way that can be done objectively is same speakers in same room smile.gif

do you know the differences between how Audyssey does things vs MCACC? each one has its advantages & yes, some disadvantages. if you don't know the basic differences, let us know. but how each will work for you, only doing some objective listening can say...arming yourself with all the facts is great, but forum members have very personal and differing opinions when it comes to room EQ. many will tell you Audyssey 32XT is the best, most advanced. but there are folks who prefer the Pioneer approach & sound. plus, Pioneer has a couple of things that help level the playing field....Phase Control & Standing Wave Filters. your ears will have to be the judge smile.gif either system can do great things, if you know its strengths & its weaknesses. all Audyseey implementations so far have to downsample 96Khz/192khz/SACD sampling to 48Khz due to the DSP resources it requires not to. whether that's important audibly is controversial and subject to debate and opinion. the contention is the benefits of using Audyssey outweighs the disadvantage. Pioneer MCACC doesn't downsample but it doesn't do sub EQ. >> every system has trade-offs so there is no one "best" system for everyone's needs.

with Denon, you'll get the full bore Audyssey, sub EQ, built-in ethernet switch, but no optical digital output and the changed Denon-Link if you want to buy a Denon player, you'll have to buy a new one, because the Link connection was changed, rendering the older models incompatible for that jitter-free connection.

with Pioneer SC-68, you'll get the USB-DAC, DSD file support (not in the 4520), probably somewhat higher power @ 5 & 7 channels driven at once, THX processing if that's of any interest (I don't use it myself but some do want it), opt dig output.

SC-79, you add the new HDBaseT capability but lose the multichannel analog inputs, if you want to use all analog connections from an Oppo 105, you lose that. but you gain Sabre DAC's, and better DSD file support.

choices & trade-offs

I usually don't like posting in these "which one is best or should I buy" kind of posts. because no one can be completely objective in giving you opinions on which one to buy. you probably know I'm a Pioneer enthusiast but if I were to change to another brand/model, I'd pick a Denon 4520 or Marantz 8801. both have tempted me wink.gif

deciding between a 4520 & SC-68/79 is a hard choice. each one is excellent and has its strengths.

hopefully, you can find both of them somewhere & give them a listen smile.gif

Steve
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post #10 of 121 Old 08-30-2013, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks again Steve for your detailed explanation.

I am aware of MCACC vs. Audyssey and owning a Pioneer Elite am familiar with it. I've read about both, but have only tried one. Parents Denon with Audissey did not impress me as much although it's a much older non-HDMI receiver. I once compared that Denon (2850) vs. my Elite 72TXV and preferred Pioneer sound. Again, very different components, so not sure if I can expand beyond the two.

I own both a Pioneer Kuro, and Blu-ray player, which both will work better with Elite receiver. and the USB-DAC sounds interesting to me. SC-79 is out of my price range, so that's out and I am between SC68 and 4250. Denon came to attention after a few reviews and a demo unit available locally that I can have at a small discount making it same price as SC-68. I am still not sold 100% on D-amps, but I know Amp is easily resolved with externals.

Feature-wise, they both are very similar. I think not having Sub-Eq might hurt me, although I have only one sub, and larger speakers and may not need to tweak the sub as much. Most critical items for me are:

1. Audio Quality (both seem equal)
2. Ease of use with different sources (playing from PC server, iPod, iPad, CD, USB, Pandora), etc.. in a very nice easy to control fashion. To me, these days with having large libraries and different sources of material it is more important to be able to manage and play the library in a quick and easy way (such as an app)
3. Multi-zone support (not sure which is better) - controlling A/V in different zones
4. Build quality and warranty
5. Other features such as sound processing modes, etc..

In terms of SC-68 USB-DAC, I asked this question on SC68 thread, I think you own one, can you explain this?

When someone connects their PC, installs the driver, and then it's all setup, HOW do you then navigate the music?

- Can it only be done through PC?
- Can it be done via Pioneer menu/remote?
- Can it be controlled via Pioneer iControlAV App?
- Can you see the list of music, albums, playlists, Album art on the device? or only though PC?

To me, as much as this is a fantastic feature, unless music access is easy and through the receiver, it'd be quite difficult to use/manage, no?

Thanks

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post #11 of 121 Old 08-30-2013, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexb76 View Post

In terms of SC-68 USB-DAC, I asked this question on SC68 thread, I think you own one, can you explain this?

When someone connects their PC, installs the driver, and then it's all setup, HOW do you then navigate the music?

- Can it only be done through PC?
- Can it be done via Pioneer menu/remote?
- Can it be controlled via Pioneer iControlAV App?
- Can you see the list of music, albums, playlists, Album art on the device? or only though PC?

it's an input to a DAC, audio signals only, and not the same as the USB port in the front. PC & PC software is required.

alex, I suggest you read pg 42, 54 in the SC-68 manual for USB-DAC and pg 52 for the USB front port. it's all described there. you can select the USB-DAC input by remote or app but there would be no way to nav files from it, since they are running from the PC software.

pg 42
"note, this unit cannot be used to play audio files from a PC unless Media Player is installed on the connected PC"

pg 54

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

a key phrase is: "Begin playback on the PC." that makes the answers to your question pretty obvious wink.gif

you can use Win Media Player, J River, itunes, probably Foobar. etc. but you'll play the files from the PC just you would normally.

you play files on a USB drive using the front port & you navigate those files using the receiver's own nav GUI. USB-DAC was not designed to work as a flash drive input, it's just an input to the DAC for async audio transfer. you still need to play & nav the files with a media player.

I don't recall any file info being displayed on the receiver or OSD when I tried it out many months ago. and if you check the input assignments, again in the manual, you'll see that you cannot assign HDMI to the USB-DAC, so no video, audio signals only, & no way to get metadata thru the receiver to a TV.

suggest you PM soniky if you still need help on this, he's uses the feature a lot.

Steve
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post #12 of 121 Old 08-30-2013, 05:31 PM
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I've had a pioneer Sc-71 for 2 months now and overall it's performed we'll. I just returned it today for the Denon-4520CI. The reason for this is because I will be able to eq 2 subs individually while the pioneer can't. Also the audyssey eq system for the surrounds will be much better. When I played bluerays loud the safety on the pioneer would turn the receiver off, which got annoying. Supposedly this Denon should be a step up in some areas so I'm eager to see once I get it delivered Wednesday.

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post #13 of 121 Old 08-30-2013, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post

I've had a pioneer Sc-71 for 2 months now and overall it's performed we'll. I just returned it today for the Denon-4520CI. The reason for this is because I will be able to eq 2 subs individually while the pioneer can't. Also the audyssey eq system for the surrounds will be much better. When I played bluerays loud the safety on the pioneer would turn the receiver off, which got annoying. Supposedly this Denon should be a step up in some areas so I'm eager to see once I get it delivered Wednesday.
You do realize the comparison for the Denon 4250 would have been the Pioneer Elite SC 77/79 not the SC-71.
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post #14 of 121 Old 08-30-2013, 06:32 PM
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You do realize the comparison for the Denon 4250 would have been the Pioneer Elite SC 77/79 not the SC-71.

I just wanted to point out that with the Denon, one could had some advantages with the Adyssey MultiEQ XT 32 and Adyssey sub EQ dual subwoofer EQ processing which pioneer elites don't have. Why pay that much for an elite and only get a MCACC cal which with the one I had did a decent job much still had room for plenty of improvements and does not compare with what you could do with the Denon 4520CI. I still have yet to receive the Denon but looking through specs, features, and reviews, it seems like the Denon would be a good choice.

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post #15 of 121 Old 08-30-2013, 06:36 PM
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I still like pioneer, I just noticed that this Denon 4520CI seems like it'd suite my needs a little better in the long run.

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post #16 of 121 Old 08-30-2013, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post

I just wanted to point out that with the Denon, one could had some advantages with the Adyssey MultiEQ XT 32 and Adyssey sub EQ dual subwoofer EQ processing which pioneer elites don't have. Why pay that much for an elite and only get a MCACC cal which with the one I had did a decent job much still had room for plenty of improvements and does not compare with what you could do with the Denon 4520CI. I still have yet to receive the Denon but looking through specs, features, and reviews, it seems like the Denon would be a good choice.
I will say the 4250 is a very nice AVR but xt-32 will down convert all my 192KHz 24bit and DSD music to 48KHz 24bit something I can live without and MCACC does what I need it to do besides being very Apple friendly but we all have our favorites.
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post #17 of 121 Old 08-30-2013, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by oztech View Post

I will say the 4250 is a very nice AVR but xt-32 will down convert all my 192KHz 24bit and DSD music to 48KHz 24bit something I can live without and MCACC does what I need it to do besides being very Apple friendly but we all have our favorites.

Yeah it is a hard choice but since my setup is mainly used for blueray movies and I'm adding a 2nd sub, the Denon seems like it could help me on the Eq area more. I guess it comes down to the individuals needs and goals. I do like the fact that the Pioneer elites use a d3 class amp system, but I couldn't figure out how to get the safety to stop activating every time I cranked up the volume. You can toggle safety off, safety 1, and safety 2 but it would still shut the receiver off so I was a little frustrated about it. Also once my 2nd sub arrives I can't do any eq one either of them with the elite receiver, which I didn't realize until someone on this forum pointed it out, so that was a bummer. I like pioneer products though, I used their receivers a lot in car audio set ups in the past.

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post #18 of 121 Old 08-30-2013, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post

Yeah it is a hard choice but since my setup is mainly used for blueray movies and I'm adding a 2nd sub, the Denon seems like it could help me on the Eq area more. I guess it comes down to the individuals needs and goals. I do like the fact that the Pioneer elites use a d3 class amp system, but I couldn't figure out how to get the safety to stop activating every time I cranked up the volume. You can toggle safety off, safety 1, and safety 2 but it would still shut the receiver off so I was a little frustrated about it. Also once my 2nd sub arrives I can't do any eq one either of them with the elite receiver, which I didn't realize until someone on this forum pointed it out, so that was a bummer. I like pioneer products though, I used their receivers a lot in car audio set ups in the past.
The reason I said the 77/79 they are Ultra ll spec'd meaning more power all the way around over the SC-71 and possibly exceeding the 4250 all channels driven in 4 ohms but thats a guess till they get bench marked.
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post #19 of 121 Old 08-30-2013, 07:15 PM
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The reason I said the 77/79 they are Ultra ll spec'd meaning more power all the way around over the SC-71 and possibly exceeding the 4250 all channels driven in 4 ohms but thats a guess till they get bench marked.

Well since a lot of speakers are driven in 8 ohms, how would the receivers compare if say powering in 5ch surround in 8 ohms being that this would be a popular setup?

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post #20 of 121 Old 08-30-2013, 07:50 PM
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Well since a lot of speakers are driven in 8 ohms, how would the receivers compare if say powering in 5ch surround in 8 ohms being that this would be a popular setup?
More complicated than that most speakers are 8ohm but they don't stay there they ALL very with frequency and some mfg's will supply an impedance and phase shift chart to help with amp selection some such as mine dip to 2.8ohms at 150Hz.
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post #21 of 121 Old 08-30-2013, 07:59 PM
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More complicated than that most speakers are 8ohm but they don't stay there they ALL very with frequency and some mfg's will supply an impedance and phase shift chart to help with amp selection some such as mine dip to 2.8ohms at 150Hz.

I didn't realize that eek.gif Let me ask you this, what kind of amplifier system does the Denon 4520ci use, I can't find any info on this. I know the elites are running d3s so are the denons 4520ci using a-b class?

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post #22 of 121 Old 08-30-2013, 08:44 PM
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I didn't realize that eek.gif Let me ask you this, what kind of amplifier system does the Denon 4520ci use, I can't find any info on this. I know the elites are running d3s so are the denons 4520ci using a-b class?
Yes they are using a Class AB and usually their flagship line does very well with 4ohm how well will depend on test bench but from the owners thread they seem capable but remember you can push any amp into clipping or shut down by turning the volume to high not to mention hearing damage something i think will happen to a lot of posters younger than I if they keep cranking things to high levels for extended periods.
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post #23 of 121 Old 08-30-2013, 08:51 PM
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Yes they are using a Class AB and usually their flagship line does very well with 4ohm how well will depend on test bench but from the owners thread they seem capable but remember you can push any amp into clipping or shut down by turning the volume to high not to mention hearing damage something i think will happen to a lot of posters younger than I if they keep cranking things to high levels for extended periods.

I like turning the volume high for movies, everything else just the norm. I hope this Denon 4520ci works out, I just want my setup to be up to par for when some blueray movies that I'm waiting for get released. biggrin.gif

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post #24 of 121 Old 08-30-2013, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

I will say the 4250 is a very nice AVR but xt-32 will down convert all my 192KHz 24bit and DSD music to 48KHz 24bit something I can live without and MCACC does what I need it to do besides being very Apple friendly but we all have our favorites.
Here we go again. Go ahead put those blindfolds on and then listen to your 192khz 24 bit content and downconverted to 48 khz 24 bit content and tell me which is which. biggrin.gif
A true audiophile prefers not to have any room correction and no additional processing in a pure direct mode to listen to 2 ch and multi-channel hi res audio content. If your not using XT32 with direct or ultra direct modes its not involved. wink.gif

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post #25 of 121 Old 08-30-2013, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

Here we go again. Go ahead put those blindfolds on and then listen to your 192khz 24 bit content and downconverted to 48 khz 24 bit content and tell me which is which. biggrin.gif
A true audiophile prefers not to have any room correction and no additional processing in a pure direct mode to listen to 2 ch and multi-channel hi res audio content. If your not using XT32 with direct or ultra direct modes its not involved. wink.gif
I paid for it so why take it away if you don't notice a difference well then carry on and besides the poster did not seem interested in SACD or DVD-A so it would be a moot point for him.
I install a lot of systems and I am not completely sold on XT-32 like a lot of posters as a matter of fact the only one I am sold on its out of my budget as DIRAC has spoiled me so in the meantime I would just prefer most of them to get out of the way of my music.
I see before and after curves and sometimes the room is so bad the RC had to bump the dip so much I wonder how this will affect its headroom.
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post #26 of 121 Old 08-30-2013, 10:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Please let us know how it works in your setup. Although your comparison is not to the same level Pioneer amp but I'd be curious to know.
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Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post

I like turning the volume high for movies, everything else just the norm. I hope this Denon 4520ci works out, I just want my setup to be up to par for when some blueray movies that I'm waiting for get released. biggrin.gif

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post #27 of 121 Old 08-31-2013, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by alexb76 View Post

Please let us know how it works in your setup. Although your comparison is not to the same level Pioneer amp but I'd be curious to know.

Yeah I figure if this time im not satisfied then I can always add a good 3ch ex amp and be good, I figure atleast give this denon a try and see. Ima def post how it goes and sounds

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post #28 of 121 Old 08-31-2013, 04:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post

Well since a lot of speakers are driven in 8 ohms, how would the receivers compare if say powering in 5ch surround in 8 ohms being that this would be a popular setup?

they would be comparable up to the point where 5 channels are driven to same load at the same time, IOW, 5 ch driven.

at that point, assuming you attach validity to that kind of test, the Pioneer would win smile.gif

while there are bench test results of the Pioneer's class D3 amps for 2 years running, finding bench test results for the Denon 4520 in the US is harder (I don't think I ever found any)

but, to the rescue is a German reviewer (hollywoodzuhause) who did very detailed and thorough reviews of both the Pioneer SC-LX86 (europe's SC-68) and the 4520, including oscilliscope test measurements. they are on You Tube -

4520:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NB7hiRRo7po

SC-LX86:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_tRCMDj1tM

here's one where he compared 4520, LX86, Onkyo 5010:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEnkJhDvmxg

these are in German but You Tube has a beta translation tool; it's rough & I don't speak German other than a few words but I still was able to follow a lot of his comments & results. he really did a thorough job going thru design, features, operation, and results. I've also found other European reviews of both the 4520 & LX86 in print and in video form, links to 2 are at the end of my post.

and a screenshot from his comparison showing his measured test results for all 3:

from hollywoodzuhause review Pioneer Onkyo Denon.doc 1379k .doc file

if you look at the bottom of the chart on page 1 of my word doc, you'll see

Pioneer - 5 X 110 w @ 8ohm
Onkyo - 5 X 60 w @ 8 ohm
Denon - 5 X 35 w @ 6 ohm

you can debate the "accuracy" of the tests but they are made by the same guy using the same equipment. so the comparison is valid.

we can also debate whether 5 & 7 ch all ch driven measurements mean anything in the real world but they do give an idea of the total power capacity of the power supply wink.gif what's hurting the Denon in this comparison is the size of the transformer.

if you read the company specs, the power supply in the Onkyo 5010 is larger than the Denon 4520. both are class A/B amps so should have similar efficiency; that is why the 4520 sags more than the Onkyo in an all ch driven test.

in all fairness, in the individual reviews he does point out the downside of class D amps, namely some distortion components at high freq's when pushed. you can see it on his scope. but you can also read about it in US reviews of the SC-57 & SC-68 on http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/ this is just the nature of class D amps. so in my mind, I don't see a hidden agenda, trying to make the Denon look "bad". these are all as objective as they can be, IMO.

OTOH, he gives the Denon the highest ranking on overall audio smoothness/quality. it's broken down by bass & dynamics (Pio wins), midrange and treble (Denon wins). he's even thrown in a Bryston SP3 $9000 prepro for comparison - of course it wins them all - no surprise.

and I also have a power comparison between the Pioneer & its competitive flagship receivers which was given to me in confidence so I'm not allowed to share, sorry. basically it supports the conclusions of the hollywoodzuhause tests wink.gif

but personally, I wouldn't rule out the 4520 based on a power test either. 5 & 7 ch is an indicator but in the real world, all channels don't require the same power at the same time. like I said, while I own & like Pioneer receivers, I would highly consider the 4520 as an alternative. what power is adequate depends on the speakers & room size. if I had DefTechs or Klipsch, I'd could be very happy with the 4520 as is. since I use very low efficiency, 4 ohm Magnepans (double whammy), I'd be looking at ext amps with a 4520. it all depends on your setup. what I've done is use a very hi pwr amp for the fronts, and use the receiver to drive all the rest.

more euro reviews:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.areadvd.de/hardware/2012/pioneer_sc_lx86.shtml&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dsc-lx86%2Breview%26start%3D20%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DIH3%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26channel%3Dnp%26biw%3D1024%26bih%3D629%26prmd%3Dimvns&sa=X&ei=EyJbUMu8LoKs8AT8joFQ&ved=0CDMQ7gEwAjgU

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.areadvd.de/hardware/2012/denon_avr4520.shtml&prev=/search%3Fq%3Ddenon%2B4520%2Breview%26start%3D20%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DN%26tbo%3Dd%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26channel%3Dnp%26biw%3D1024%26bih%3D629&sa=X&ei=s7PRUPGCM4eq8AS9uYDwDA&ved=0CEcQ7gEwADgU
Attached Files
File Type: doc from hollywoodzuhause review Pioneer Onkyo Denon.doc (1.35 MB, 23 views)

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post #29 of 121 Old 08-31-2013, 04:57 AM
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information overload wink.gif

and this is why, alex, after you're comfortable with your research, you really need to just go take a listen & try them out for yourself smile.gif

while I would agree with the obvious advantage of Audyssey doing sub EQ, saying Audyssey "better EQ's surrounds" is a questionable conclusion wink.gif on what basis can someone make that statement? unless actual room measurements with measuring software and a calibrated mic were used, it's all opinions. just because a receiver shuts off, doesn't mean the room EQ system is "better". the 2 have nothing to do with each other, sorry.

not being critical per se, just pointing out the pitfalls of listening to opinions (including mine) and making decisions on that basis.

go do some demos and take a laptop with you so you can try out the USB-DAC for yourself. that way you'll know how it works wink.gif

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post #30 of 121 Old 08-31-2013, 06:45 AM
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Well it looks like I prob bought another receiver that will disappoint me, I really thought the Denon would give me more power. If the 4520ci isn't an improvement then ill just buy a very good 3 ch amp, slap in on and be done with buying more receivers. Sorry it's just getting frustrating because I read on all the choices and just get confused sometimes on what to buy then I get stuck always exchanging equipment eek.gif

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