Originally Posted by Blackmambakila
Well since a lot of speakers are driven in 8 ohms, how would the receivers compare if say powering in 5ch surround in 8 ohms being that this would be a popular setup?
they would be comparable up to the point where 5 channels are driven to same load at the same time, IOW, 5 ch driven.
at that point, assuming you attach validity to that kind of test, the Pioneer would win
while there are bench test results of the Pioneer's class D3 amps for 2 years running, finding bench test results for the Denon 4520 in the US is harder (I don't think I ever found any)
but, to the rescue is a German reviewer (hollywoodzuhause) who did very detailed and thorough reviews of both the Pioneer SC-LX86 (europe's SC-68) and the 4520, including oscilliscope test measurements. they are on You Tube -
here's one where he compared 4520, LX86, Onkyo 5010:
these are in German but You Tube has a beta translation tool; it's rough & I don't speak German other than a few words but I still was able to follow a lot of his comments & results. he really did a thorough job going thru design, features, operation, and results. I've also found other European reviews of both the 4520 & LX86 in print and in video form, links to 2 are at the end of my post.
and a screenshot from his comparison showing his measured test results for all 3:
from hollywoodzuhause review Pioneer Onkyo Denon.doc 1379k .doc file
if you look at the bottom of the chart on page 1 of my word doc, you'll see
Pioneer - 5 X 110 w @ 8ohm
Onkyo - 5 X 60 w @ 8 ohm
Denon - 5 X 35 w @ 6 ohm
you can debate the "accuracy" of the tests but they are made by the same guy using the same equipment. so the comparison is valid.
we can also debate whether 5 & 7 ch all ch driven measurements mean anything in the real world but they do give an idea of the total power capacity of the power supply
what's hurting the Denon in this comparison is the size of the transformer.
if you read the company specs, the power supply in the Onkyo 5010 is larger than the Denon 4520. both are class A/B amps so should have similar efficiency; that is why the 4520 sags more than the Onkyo in an all ch driven test.
in all fairness, in the individual reviews he does point out the downside of class D amps, namely some distortion components at high freq's when pushed. you can see it on his scope. but you can also read about it in US reviews of the SC-57 & SC-68 on http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/
this is just the nature of class D amps. so in my mind, I don't see a hidden agenda, trying to make the Denon look "bad". these are all as objective as they can be, IMO.
OTOH, he gives the Denon the highest ranking on overall audio smoothness/quality. it's broken down by bass & dynamics (Pio wins), midrange and treble (Denon wins). he's even thrown in a Bryston SP3 $9000 prepro for comparison - of course it wins them all - no surprise.
and I also have a power comparison between the Pioneer & its competitive flagship receivers which was given to me in confidence so I'm not allowed to share, sorry. basically it supports the conclusions of the hollywoodzuhause tests
but personally, I wouldn't rule out the 4520 based on a power test either. 5 & 7 ch is an indicator but in the real world, all channels don't require the same power at the same time. like I said, while I own & like Pioneer receivers, I would highly consider the 4520 as an alternative. what power is adequate depends on the speakers & room size. if I had DefTechs or Klipsch, I'd could be very happy with the 4520 as is. since I use very low efficiency, 4 ohm Magnepans (double whammy), I'd be looking at ext amps with a 4520. it all depends on your setup. what I've done is use a very hi pwr amp for the fronts, and use the receiver to drive all the rest.
more euro reviews: