Denon X4000 vs Onkyo TX-NR929 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 13 Old 09-03-2013, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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I need to decide between these two AVR to replace my aging Sony TA-E9000ES pre/pro. Spec wise these two are very close. XT32 and 4K upscaling is very important for the now and the future. They are both priced the same.

What would or did cause you to buy one of these AVR's over the other or some other AVR.

Thank you.
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post #2 of 13 Old 09-03-2013, 09:57 AM
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The 929 does not feature Sub EQ HT for dual sub EQ as does the X4000, although the 929 is a true 9CH AVR whereas the X4000 would require a 2CH external amp to expand to 9CH. Warranty on the X4000 is 3 years vice only 2 years with Onkyo and Onkyo must still overcome issue of bad HDMI boards on past year's models.
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post #3 of 13 Old 09-03-2013, 09:59 AM - Thread Starter
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The Onkyo NR818 is still in the running because it has XT32 and 4K upscaling. It is 400 less then the 4000 and 929. Do the others have anything that is worth 400 bucks. I will be using my ATI 1505 for my amp, so the AVR's amps will only be used for anything above and beyond 5.1. The 818 uses two video processing chips, a Vida VHD-1900 for 1080p upscaling and the same Marvell Qdeo as the 929 for 4K upscaling. Are the two chips of the 818 better then one of the 929? How does the Denon 4000's video upscaling compare to the Onkyo 818 and 929? It looks like the Denon uses the Analog Device 12-bit -ADV8003 for upscaling.

Thanks for your help
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post #4 of 13 Old 09-03-2013, 11:00 AM
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Video chips in AVRs aren't going to make as much of a difference as using an external video device (eg. DVDO Edge or Darby Darblett). AVScience sells both models though if interested.

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post #5 of 13 Old 09-03-2013, 11:40 AM
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I wouldn't buy an AVR for 4K support. When you run 4K through your AVR, you'll want to use HDMI 2.0 which isn't available yet. Plus any 4K tv will upscale everything to 4K so you won't need an AVR to do it.

I would get the Denon because, as mentioned above, Onkyo's have a bad history of HDMI board failures.
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post #6 of 13 Old 09-03-2013, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Video chips in AVRs aren't going to make as much of a difference as using an external video device (eg. DVDO Edge or Darby Darblett). AVScience sells both models though if interested.

And I'm pretty sure AVS sells Lumagen which certain models now contain a Darby processing stage and (IMHO) better upscaling than DVDO provides: I wouldn't use an AVR for upscaling anymore than I'd use a projector with built in speakers instead of a separate amp.

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
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post #7 of 13 Old 09-03-2013, 04:20 PM
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Indeed we do .... the lowest of three models being the 2022 ...

http://shop.avscience.com/Lumagen-Radiance-2022_p_561.html

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post #8 of 13 Old 09-03-2013, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Video chips in AVRs aren't going to make as much of a difference as using an external video device (eg. DVDO Edge or Darby Darblett). AVScience sells both models though if interested.
For most, they tend to not utilize the built-in video processor of a AVR. As its a lot more common to use the source (BD player for example) video processor, set AVR to pass through, not really use HDTV or projector video processing. Alternatively you might use source direct, set AVR to pass through, and use a external video processor with your projector.

But even though most don't use the built in AVR video processing, the QDEO or Analog Device 12-bit -ADV8003 is not bad for upscaling to 4Kx2K.

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post #9 of 13 Old 09-04-2013, 09:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Now I need to decide if it's worth waiting for HDMI 2.0 to future proof my purchase. I would think HDMI 2.0 will be around for a long time. I will be buying a 4K FP when they drop in price and there is content available.
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post #10 of 13 Old 09-08-2013, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ken7258 View Post

Now I need to decide if it's worth waiting for HDMI 2.0 to future proof my purchase. I would think HDMI 2.0 will be around for a long time. I will be buying a 4K FP when they drop in price and there is content available.

It is possible to upgrade a receiver to HDMI 2.0 with a simple firmware update if the manufacturer chooses.
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post #11 of 13 Old 11-05-2013, 07:20 PM
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Recently I had the same choice. Ultimately I went with the Denon X4000. Mostly I was afraid of the Onkyo HDMI board problems, I'm not 100% convinced Onkyo has killed that zombie yet.

Regarding HDMI 2.0, if history is any guide, it will be at least 2-3 years before the video display hardware comes down in price to make it truly affordable, and probably a year or two after that before 4k content becomes commonplace. If you think you'll still be using the same receiver in 4 years or more, you may want to wait until spring 2014 when some receivers might ship with HDMI 2.0 chips.
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post #12 of 13 Old 11-05-2013, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SolarE View Post

It is possible to upgrade a receiver to HDMI 2.0 with a simple firmware update if the manufacturer chooses.

HDMI chips are not firmware upgradable. The only way I know of to upgrade your HDMI is if you own a Sony VPL-VW1000ES (a $25,000 projector). Sony will sell you a video board upgrade for your projector that contains HDMI 2.0 chips once those chips are commonly available. Currently HDMI 2.0 chips are in very, very short supply.

If it was possible to upgrade HDMI chips via firmware, Sony would have done so.
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post #13 of 13 Old 11-05-2013, 09:19 PM
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A while back I was looking for a replacement for my Integra DTC-9.8 pre-pro and Outlaw 200 watt x 7 channel amp. Like many here I was leery of Onkyo HDMI boards. Personally I've had good luck with their products but I quizzed them extensively about the overheating and failing HDMI boards.Actually they did a poor job of convincing me about a fix, claiming it's proprietary information. Undeterred I went ahead with a purchase of the TX-NR929. I couldn't be happier.

Onkyo did something with those boards. My 929 with it's 9 channels of amplification is running 30 to 35 degrees cooler than my 9.8 pre-pro. Shame on Onkyo for not getting the word out. There are some on this thread and this important forum that are making the same uninformed claim that their boards are still running hot and will crap out two months out of warranty.

Honestly if I had two different subs I would have given more consideration to the X4000 and also the Marantz SR7008. Actually with the exception of the Audyssey Sub EQ HD, I think the 929 specs out more like the 7008 albeit for a lot less money.

Initially I thought I might be keeping my Outlaw amp but not necessary. This Onkyo is a power house. The biggest treat is that everything sounds better. Besides the extra channels, it handles the newer sound formats and the Audyssey XT32 is an audible improvement over XT. Also with the XT32 I have more well defined and tighter bass.

Yeah, it took a fair amount of research, but in the end I made the right choice for me. I knew I was bucking the trend toward the X4000 although I thought the SR7008 was more comparable but in the end I got a hell of a good AVR for the money.

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