Do most value priced surround sound receivers suck at pushing large speakers without a sub? - AVS Forum
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Old 09-05-2013, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi everyone, I'm new at the forum but have been trolling around and learned quite a bit. Here is current situation and it may be as simple as my receiver is "crap". I just bought my first house and in the process of setting up a second sound system(projector in the basement). For my upstairs I currently have a Sony STR-DG820 and a mixed bag of speakers(don't flame me). The speakers in questions are an old pair of Mcintosh XD715's(not super special, but I like them) with 10" drivers. I currently have them hooked up with a Klipsch Synergy Sub-12 and I have more than enough bass. But I would like to move the sub to the basement and run the systems upstairs without a sub, however this Sony sounds like it filters any bass signal to these speakers.

I've grown up with these speakers and had them hooked originally to an Adcomm and then an Outlaw and they had a nice full sound with plenty of bass, not earth shaking but nice enough for watching TV and football. But on the Sony they suck, My guess is modern value receivers are built to have a Sub and run tiny speakers so they reduce the power(or lack it) and filter the lows?

I've had this receiver for a few years and messed with every setting I could find but was forced to buy the Sub which was great for movies. But now I'm being cheap since I just dumped a lot of money into a new projector, screen, and Pioneer SP-BS22's and CS22(skipped their sub). Besides the wife is not a huge fan of that big black box in the living room.

Thank you in advance, I have tried looking for info but it seems like it's almost unheard of to run without a sub now days...
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Old 09-05-2013, 06:41 PM
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Could be that you haven't setup your avr properly as modern avrs can handle distributing bass between a sub and speakers....but you need to RTFM usually. smile.gif

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Old 09-05-2013, 07:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I have read the manual 2-5 times. I've made sure that all the filters and crossovers are shut off and set to "large" speakers I've set the bass eq to max and tried all eq and effect settings. When I bought this receiver a couple years ago I had bought and returned a couple other receivers and they all had similar results no more big sound. If I dragged in my 40 yr old Sansui from the garage these speakers would sound just like they should but with no surround and no HDMI.
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Old 09-05-2013, 07:40 PM
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amended...misremembered situation.

You sure not just your memory playing tricks on you?

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


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Old 09-05-2013, 07:52 PM - Thread Starter
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yeah it's not just my memory, it's the same reason I returned all the other receivers. I wanted all the new features so I bought the Sony and the sub and dealt with it.
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Old 09-05-2013, 08:00 PM
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So pull the old receiver out....but I do wonder if you had the bass response you think you did....hard to say without a proper comparison setup.

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


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Old 09-05-2013, 08:03 PM
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If there is no sub in the setup, the receiver will set the speakers to LARGE so they can only get a full range signal.

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Old 09-05-2013, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

So pull the old receiver out....but I do wonder if you had the bass response you think you did....hard to say without a proper comparison setup.

I suspect that his expectations have moved up a few notches after living with a subwoofer for a while. I know that happened to me after my first sub.
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Old 09-05-2013, 09:45 PM
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Yep, now that I've had subs don't think there are very many speakers out there I'd be satisfied with without a sub....

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


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Old 09-05-2013, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cutlass44 View Post

I have read the manual 2-5 times. I've made sure that all the filters and crossovers are shut off and set to "large" speakers I've set the bass eq to max and tried all eq and effect settings. When I bought this receiver a couple years ago I had bought and returned a couple other receivers and they all had similar results no more big sound. If I dragged in my 40 yr old Sansui from the garage these speakers would sound just like they should but with no surround and no HDMI.


Your two main speakers are set to large with crossovers "shut off".

How do you have the other speakers setup in the receiver? They should be set to small. I assume that you are trying to use a 5.0 speaker setup.
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Old 09-06-2013, 06:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post

Your two main speakers are set to large with crossovers "shut off".

How do you have the other speakers setup in the receiver? They should be set to small. I assume that you are trying to use a 5.0 speaker setup.

yes it's a 5.0 setup with the center and rears set as "small"
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Old 09-06-2013, 10:52 AM
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Are you feeding the Sony avr digitally? Makes a big different on some modern avr's -vs- analog inputs.

It really could be the Sony not driving the low end well I suppose. Some of those old Sansui receivers were monsters, performance wise, with the Sansui you would have to use analog inputs right?
Just make sure your feeding audio the same way when comparing. Often source devices don't put out good low end on their analog audio out these days either.
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Old 09-06-2013, 11:18 AM
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It's not large speakers that are more difficult to drive, but low efficiency speakers. Usualy, large speakers tend to be more efficient than smaller ones because the woofers have less difficulty in pressing their cone into the larger volume of air. Less resistance...

My B&W CMC center speaker benefitted the most from going from AVR (not a budget type, but the Yamaha RX-V2700) to separates with a power(full)amp. The CMC is about 4dB less efficient than the CM7 L+R speakers.

Building a HT with 7.2.4 layout and ◤SEOS-24◥ LCR.
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