"Official" Emotiva UMC-200 Thread - Page 22 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #631 of 710 Old 01-12-2015, 06:19 AM
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Markus,

Thanks. Missed it.

If I run the 176khz file this way would I be OK?:

computer ==> outboard dac usb ==> umc-200 2 channel analog

Thanks,

Jim

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post #632 of 710 Old 01-12-2015, 07:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Do you use bass management (you should)? In that case the UMC-200 would convert it to digital first and then convert it back to analog again.

Markus

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post #633 of 710 Old 01-12-2015, 07:47 AM
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My front speakers are full range so, no, I don't think I need bass management (this is a stereo FLAC file). I listen to stereo in stereo and never mess around with surround sound post processing. I have always gone direct (or Pure Direct with my previous setup with the Pioneer Elite receiver). Is this wrong?

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post #634 of 710 Old 01-12-2015, 08:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Everybody that listens to speakers in an acoustically small space like a living room needs bass management and sub(s)

But if you don't have a sub and use just your fronts then "Direct" is the mode you want to use for listening to your analog 2 channel input signal.
See post: 99 "Official" Emotiva UMC-200 Thread

Markus

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post #635 of 710 Old 01-12-2015, 12:06 PM
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Ha, yes, I might agree with you once I have the time and patience to sit down and do a full REW calibration. Right now, though, my ears tell me Direct sounds best for two-channel music.

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post #636 of 710 Old 01-12-2015, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamtheatre View Post
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Ha, yes, I might agree with you once I have the time and patience to sit down and do a full REW calibration. Right now, though, my ears tell me Direct sounds best for two-channel music.
I had the same resistance to room EQ, but even the very flawed Emo-Q calibration made a big difference (for the better). Music never sounded good in my home theater room even though I had pretty high-end equipment. The EQ makes it sound great. Emo-Q is highly flawed (the speaker size and sub crossovers were way off, for example, but you can manually tweak those), but it still sounds a lot better than direct. I haven't found time to do REW. I definitely recommend trying Emo-Q at least for a comparison.

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post #637 of 710 Old 01-12-2015, 05:28 PM
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Pcm 5.1

Listening to Elton John's 60 Birthday and it has this PCM 5.1 track, no Dolby no DTS, and it SOUNDS AWFUL like monophonic. And wondering whether it's a bad BR or the UMC-200. It automatically defaults to ALL STEREO which is what sound like it's suppose to be for PCM multi-channel signal.

Any other BR with PCM 5.1 that I can compare to?

TIA
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post #638 of 710 Old 01-12-2015, 11:56 PM - Thread Starter
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What sound format does the UMC-200 report?

Did you set up your UMC-200 like this?
"Official" Emotiva UMC-200 Thread

Markus

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post #639 of 710 Old 01-13-2015, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjp View Post
I had the same resistance to room EQ, but even the very flawed Emo-Q calibration made a big difference (for the better). Music never sounded good in my home theater room even though I had pretty high-end equipment. The EQ makes it sound great. Emo-Q is highly flawed (the speaker size and sub crossovers were way off, for example, but you can manually tweak those), but it still sounds a lot better than direct. I haven't found time to do REW. I definitely recommend trying Emo-Q at least for a comparison.
Actually, my speaker sizes and all crossovers save the subwoofer were dead on. The speaker distances were...creative lol. All channels were reported between 20 and 30 feet. No idea how it could be that far off as the front three are around 9 feet and the surrounds much less than that. Weird. Manually changed all the distances and the sub crossover (230hz to 80hz). Levels were also pretty dead on. Only minor adjustments needed.

I did play around with music surround modes and Stereo (fronts with sub and bass management). Pretty awesome results I must say. Depending on the music material I will definitely consider using these modes more often than I did on the Pioneer Elite receiver.

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post #640 of 710 Old 01-13-2015, 10:32 AM
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Here's a question and a theory...
I set my speaker distances manually at first, and with REW now. I've read that people are having Emo-Q Come up with settings of 20-30 feet when the true distance is a fraction of that. What I'm wondering is if by doing that, the UMC-200 is increasing it's resolution.
We know that it only gives settings to within several inches. For example, let's say the UMC-200 only gives feet, and odd decimal tenths, (.1, .3, .5, etc.) but not even decimal tenths. The closest setting is 7.3', which equates to about 7' 4". Well, say your head is actually only 7' 2" away. Combine that error over several speakers, and imaging becomes less than optimal.
What if the actual distances stay the same, but you multiply each distance by 3x in the UMC-200. The delay will still work on all speakers equally, but now it's resolution and accuracy can be increased, because the degree of error will be smaller. I.E. 21.5' would get closer to the actual time alignment we want (about 7' 2" rather than 7' 4").

Does that make sense? Is the UMC-200 that smart? Or is it just bad design and I'm way overthinking it?
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post #641 of 710 Old 01-13-2015, 12:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Absolute numbers don't matter, the relation between channel delays is what matters. If you can get a better match by increasing the delay distance for each speaker by the same amount then the error would indeed be reduced. But I doubt that you'll find a setting that would improve all speakers at the same time.

Markus

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post #642 of 710 Old 01-14-2015, 08:36 AM
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I wonder if there's a way to integrate it with REW, or figure it out on paper. I.E. make calc's for all speakers and decide whether the actual distance, or multiples of two or three will result in the closest actual distance/delay combination for all speakers.
After REW use, I have noticed improvements in soundstage - localized sounds are easier to point to, and generalized sounds seem to float in the room near my head, rather than being diffuse. This was with only slight adjustments to what I'd measured with a tape. IOW, small adjustments make big differences. I'm sure it could be further improved with greater accuracy, but how to do it... After all, this is why we have surround sound.
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post #643 of 710 Old 01-14-2015, 08:44 AM - Thread Starter
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What exactly do you mean by "REW use"?

Markus

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post #644 of 710 Old 01-14-2015, 09:20 AM
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Using REW's distance reccomendations seem to be better than what Emo-Q comes up with.
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post #645 of 710 Old 01-14-2015, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oatmeal769 View Post
Using REW's distance reccomendations seem to be better than what Emo-Q comes up with.
Emo-Q is not a very good room eq system. It's basic at best. However calculating distance/delay should be pretty simple.

If what you calculated with REW sounds better than what Emo-Q has come up with then use those numbers.
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post #646 of 710 Old 01-14-2015, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oatmeal769 View Post
Using REW's distance reccomendations seem to be better than what Emo-Q comes up with.
Are you using a loopback cable?

Markus

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post #647 of 710 Old 01-15-2015, 09:02 AM
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Are you using a loopback cable?
Yes.
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post #648 of 710 Old 01-17-2015, 03:48 PM
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I’ve read through this discussion a few times and have struggled a bit understanding the discussion of the umc-200’s limitations. So I’m hoping you all can verify a few things for me.


Here’s the system I have, for which I need a processor:

  • I have a 5.1 system (PSB speakers) and don’t expect that to change.

  • I’ve got an oppo 103 which I will use to play CDs and DVDs and also for Netflix and Vudu streaming. I’ll connect that to the processor via hdmi.

  • I’ve got an apple TV which I will also connect to the processor via hdmi.

  • I’ve got a mac mini which I’ll use as a HTPC media server (mostly lossless music) which I will connect to the processor via hdmi (I could also connect via toslink).

  • I have an old Emotiva 7-channel Amp (LPA-1) which I will connect to the processor.

So, its only 5.1, only digital input, and no headphone usage. My questions are about 2 channel music being played from a CD on my oppo or from my HTPC and being fed to the UMC-200 via hdmi (or, perhaps, in the case of the HTPC, via toslink). Is the following correct?

  1. Using STEREO mode, I could play the music out of my two fronts (set to large) without using the sub or having bass management engaged?
  2. Using DIRECT mode, I could play the music out of my two fronts and my sub, with bass management engaged? If so, could I do this with my fronts set to large or would I have to set them to small?

  3. Using ALL STEREO mode, I could play the music out of all my speakers (5.1) with bass management engaged? If so, would there be a way to turn off the center for that configuration – i.e., just play from the 2 fronts and 2 sides and the sub? Likewise, would there be a way to also turn off the sub, so just the 2 fronts and 2 sides are playing w/o the sub?


Any guidance would be appreciated.


Thanks,
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post #649 of 710 Old 01-18-2015, 03:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Depends on what signal your Oppo and Mac mini sends. The Mac mini can send 2 channel stereo as 2 channel PCM or as multichannel PCM. Check "Audio MIDI Setup" on the Mac mini.

To answer your other questions, what behavior are you trying to achieve?

Markus

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post #650 of 710 Old 01-18-2015, 06:17 AM
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Depends on what signal your Oppo and Mac mini sends. The Mac mini can send 2 channel stereo as 2 channel PCM or as multichannel PCM. Check "Audio MIDI Setup" on the Mac mini.

To answer your other questions, what behavior are you trying to achieve?

Thanks for the response. I just checked the mini settings and it is set to 2 channel (specifically 44100hz 2ch-24bit integer, there’s options to go up to 96000hz and 2ch-34 bit float). It’s not hooked up to a processor yet so I’m not currently using it as a HTPC but will once I get the new processor. I take it from your question that it can be set to multi channel. I currently plan on using it to play apple lossless music files and suspect all I want from it is two channel.


You asked what I’m trying to accomplish. I want to achieve the options (easily) of the things I mentioned in the questions, which perhaps I should have stated better. So, to restate:

  1. I’d like to play music (from Oppo or HTPC) out of my two fronts (set to large) without using the sub or having bass management engaged. Would the STEREO setting provide that?

  2. I’d also like the option of playing music out of my two fronts and my sub, with bass management engaged. Would the DIRECT setting provide that? If so, could I do this with my fronts set to large or would I have to set them to small?

  3. I’d also like the option of playing music out of all my speakers (5.1) with bass management engaged. This is sometimes called “party” mode or something similar. Would the ALL STEREO setting provide that? If so, would there be a way to turn off the center for that configuration – i.e., just play from the 2 fronts and 2 sides and the sub? Likewise, would there be a way to also turn off the sub, so just the 2 fronts and 2 sides are playing w/o the sub?


Hope that’s clear. Thanks for your help.
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If the input signal is 2 channel PCM then you would set the UMC-200 to "stereo" in both of the first two cases. The only way to switch from sub to no sub is to go into the menu and set your fronts to large. Quite cumbersome.

More on modes and signal routing:
"Official" Emotiva UMC-200 Thread

"Party mode" shouldn't be used by anyone, ever

Markus

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post #652 of 710 Old 01-18-2015, 06:52 AM
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"Party mode" shouldn't be used by anyone, ever
Ha! I knew you'd say that. And I recognize I'm venturing into a somewhat sensitive topic with you. But if I choose to use All Stereo mode is there a way to configure it to not play my center? Or to not play my sub?

And one more I just thought of . . . does the UMC-200 allow you to adjust individual speaker volume on the fly? For example, when playing a movie, perhaps you want to bump up the dialogue for a particular section by raising just the center speaker volume. Can you do that easily on the UMC-200. The very old Emotiva processor I have allows that from its remote for all speakers and the sub.

Thanks again.
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post #653 of 710 Old 01-18-2015, 06:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Ha! I knew you'd say that. And I recognize I'm venturing into a somewhat sensitive topic with you. But if I choose to use All Stereo mode is there a way to configure it to not play my center? Or to not play my sub?
If the input is a 2 channel signal: L and R is sent through EQ then L is split to all left side speakers and R is split to all right side speakers. L and R are both routed to the center speaker. No signal goes to the sub.
If you want to disable C then you need to got to the main menu. Cumbersome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spyrelx View Post
And one more I just thought of . . . does the UMC-200 allow you to adjust individual speaker volume on the fly? For example, when playing a movie, perhaps you want to bump up the dialogue for a particular section by raising just the center speaker volume. Can you do that easily on the UMC-200. The very old Emotiva processor I have allows that from its remote for all speakers and the sub.

Thanks again.
Yes, the remote allows you to change trims. Settings are reset after restart.

Markus

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post #654 of 710 Old 01-18-2015, 07:16 AM
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Thanks Markus, greatly appreciated.

As an aside, I'm thinking of getting the UMC-200 and pairing it with the DDRC-88A. This is because I'm not aware of a processor that comes in around the same price as the UMC-200 that offers that much quality and flexibility, and because having Dirac in a separate module is attractive to me (I'm a bit nervous about the XMC-1). What do you think?
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post #655 of 710 Old 01-18-2015, 07:37 AM - Thread Starter
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I think that is a very good idea and it's also what I did

Please see **miniDSP DDRC-88A Official Thread**8-channel AI/AO Dirac Live in a box

Now that the UMC-200 isn't produced anymore the Outlaw 975 is an alternative. From what I hear it is a solid performer.

The XMC-1 isn't good value now that Atmos has arrived.

Markus

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post #656 of 710 Old 01-18-2015, 08:33 AM
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Now that the UMC-200 isn't produced anymore the Outlaw 975 is an alternative. From what I hear it is a solid performer.

The XMC-1 isn't good value now that Atmos has arrived.
From what I've read and feature set, I like the UMC-200 a bit better than the Outlaw, and there are still a few UMC-200's left on Amazon, which is where I intend to go next

The XMC-1 makes me nervous not only because of lack of ability to expand to atmos or other things but more because Emotiva processors seem to have so many quirks and design issues that I somehow think a UMC-200/88A set up would actually be more user friendly. I guess we'll see.

Thanks
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post #657 of 710 Old 01-18-2015, 08:33 AM
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The XMC-1 isn't good value now that Atmos has arrived.
Except, of course, for those who have no interest in Atmos.

I love my iPhone, but it will never replace my turntable.

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Why would someone with an interest in multichannel reproduction have no interest in Atmos?

Markus

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post #659 of 710 Old 01-18-2015, 08:43 AM
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Why would someone with an interest in multichannel reproduction have no interest in Atmos?
Because my room isn't large enough to justify the expense of upgrading? My room is 10x18. I'm running 7.1. There are not really any holes for Atmos to fill. I've heard a demo. It was fine. It didn't make me itch to upgrade. I'm happy with my system the way it is. I feel like Atmos is something I can skip. Maybe end up with it when something else comes along and I want to upgrade to it, and Atmos happens to be included as well. It's not a must-have in my room. And I'm guessing a lot of other peoples' rooms as well. If you want it, great, I'm sure it will be successful. It's not going to be a game-changer for most people.

The thing I like about Atmos is, if I understand correctly, the discs will be playable on non-atmos gear, so I can purchase Atmos titles now and still view in 7.1, not having to repurchase if the day comes where I decide to upgrade. Perhaps if I move or build an addition to accommodate a larger theater.

So, long story short, it's not worth it to me. I don't really want to argue the merits of Atmos. That's been done to death already. Would I rule out any processor with Atmos? No. Would I rule out a processor withOUT Atmos? Absolutely not.
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I love my iPhone, but it will never replace my turntable.

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post #660 of 710 Old 01-18-2015, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Because my room isn't large enough to justify the expense of upgrading?
Room size has nothing to do with Atmos. Important is the angle of incidence at which audio hits the ears.

Markus

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Emotiva Umc 200 7 1 Home Theater Preamp Surround Processor , Onkyo Tx Nr3008 9 2 Channel Network Home Theater Receiver , Denon Avr 2312ci Receiver
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