"Official" Emotiva UMC-200 Thread - Page 28 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 01-12-2016, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
REW's auto-matching algorithm is optimized for real acoustical responses not constructed cases like the one you're presenting. If you think it should be changed get in contact with the author John Mulcahy.
thank you. I will bring this to his attention. I think there is room for improvement here. reason i say this is because -to my ears- emoq is producing more pleasing results than rew auto eq.

having said that, Im also going to step up and donate to the cause as there is a lot of good the REW does.

64 base level speakers $10k
28 height speakers $10k,
14 subwoofers $10k
90% of the movie sound coming from the center channel - priceless.
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Old 01-12-2016, 08:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 1201 View Post
thank you. I will bring this to his attention. I think there is room for improvement here. reason i say this is because -to my ears- emoq is producing more pleasing results than rew auto eq.

having said that, Im also going to step up and donate to the cause as there is a lot of good the REW does.
Great. Please report back what John said.

Markus

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Old 01-13-2016, 08:14 AM
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i wonder if one could just as easily raise the level of the subs 6dbs and get the same response.
That would be nice except for 2CH material e.g. CD's, there is no sub signal to raise 6db. My subs are fed by the .1 output from the UMC-200. The subs only receive a signal with .1 material, unless you engage the Bass Enhancement.

Sony HW40 ES, Oppo BDP-103, Gallo Classico CL-4/ Classico CL-C Center/ CL-10 Sub/ Classico CL-2 surrounds, Emotiva UMC-200/ XPA-5/ XPA-3, Toshiba HD-A3. Roku X, Darbee Darblet, Silver Ticket 110" White Screen  "All rooms, speakers and ears are different, trust your own ears."
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Old 01-13-2016, 09:47 AM
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That would be nice except for 2CH material e.g. CD's, there is no sub signal to raise 6db. My subs are fed by the .1 output from the UMC-200. The subs only receive a signal with .1 material, unless you engage the Bass Enhancement.
if you set the speakers to small, the info below your chosen crossover point will go to the subs and then you can use the sub volume on the remote to control as you please.

I have full size tower speakers but mine are set to small and crossover at 60hz

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90% of the movie sound coming from the center channel - priceless.
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Old 01-13-2016, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by 1201 View Post
if you set the speakers to small, the info below your chosen crossover point will go to the subs and then you can use the sub volume on the remote to control as you please.

I have full size tower speakers but mine are set to small and crossover at 60hz
With a -3dB at 26Hz I prefer to run my L&R full. There's a cohesiveness with just L&R that I don't hear when I roll them off with the subs, imagined or not. :rolleyes

There is so little musical information below 26Hz, and I like how Enhanced Bass sounds when needed.

Sony HW40 ES, Oppo BDP-103, Gallo Classico CL-4/ Classico CL-C Center/ CL-10 Sub/ Classico CL-2 surrounds, Emotiva UMC-200/ XPA-5/ XPA-3, Toshiba HD-A3. Roku X, Darbee Darblet, Silver Ticket 110" White Screen  "All rooms, speakers and ears are different, trust your own ears."
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Old 03-18-2016, 06:26 PM
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enjoying emotiva umc-200. sound quality is amazing when I play bluray movies with DTS and dolby digital. Games sound great too.

It is with videos of lower quality and streaming videos where you clearly hear the difference.

It is really disappointing to hear after you heard a bluray.

Sometimes you have to settle with the media you have at the time and bluray or higher quality media of the video you want to watch just isnt available.

For these lower quality types of videos you need to adjust your EQ.

press menu on your remote--> setup-->EMO-Q/EQ-->choose a manual EQ slot-->
for channels L,R,C,LS and RS change: (make sure to reset each channel before changing values)
band 5-set Fc to 293.15Hz, set gain to -2dB
band 8-set Fc to 2.47KHz, set gain to +3 dB
band 9-set Fc to 4.98KHz, set gain to +3 dB, set Q to 0.25
band 10-set Fc to 7.88KHz, set gain to +3 dB
band 11-set Fc to 14.66KHz, set gain to +3 dB

for subwoofer change: (make sure to reset subwoofer before changing values)
band 1-set Fc to 31.22, set gain to -4
band 2-set Fc to 78.14, set gain to -4
band 3-set Fc to 99.62, set gain to -4

when watching lower quality vids - choose manual EQ slot with above settings --> ENJOY!!!

use Flat setting when you watch high quality videos like blurays
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Old 03-18-2016, 11:38 PM - Thread Starter
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You can't just apply EQ settings from one room to another. Rooms acoustics, speakers and listening position vary a lot. You need to measure to make useful EQ adjustments.

Markus

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Old 03-19-2016, 07:22 PM
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"you can't equalize a room."~quote by Brian McCarty.

You should play with no eq or flat...your ears will adapt to the room acoustics.

Stop chasing the mythical x-curve.

home theater geeks episode 195 33:00

above settings are to improve the compressed audio in low quality vids.

Last edited by Chad Djsinger; 03-19-2016 at 07:28 PM.
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Old 03-20-2016, 12:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad Djsinger View Post
"you can't equalize a room."~quote by Brian McCarty.

You should play with no eq or flat...your ears will adapt to the room acoustics.

Stop chasing the mythical x-curve.

home theater geeks episode 195 33:00
Not enough information to be comprehensible (to me).

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Originally Posted by Chad Djsinger View Post
above settings are to improve the compressed audio in low quality vids.
Care to elaborate why and how the EQ settings you've posted "improve the compressed audio in low quality vids"?

Markus

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Old 03-20-2016, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Chad Djsinger View Post
enjoying emotiva umc-200. sound quality is amazing when I play bluray movies with DTS and dolby digital. Games sound great too.

It is with videos of lower quality and streaming videos where you clearly hear the difference.

It is really disappointing to hear after you heard a bluray.

Sometimes you have to settle with the media you have at the time and bluray or higher quality media of the video you want to watch just isnt available.

For these lower quality types of videos you need to adjust your EQ.

press menu on your remote--> setup-->EMO-Q/EQ-->choose a manual EQ slot-->
for channels L,R,C,LS and RS change: (make sure to reset each channel before changing values)
band 5-set Fc to 293.15Hz, set gain to -2dB
band 8-set Fc to 2.47KHz, set gain to +3 dB
band 9-set Fc to 4.98KHz, set gain to +3 dB, set Q to 0.25
band 10-set Fc to 7.88KHz, set gain to +3 dB
band 11-set Fc to 14.66KHz, set gain to +3 dB

for subwoofer change: (make sure to reset subwoofer before changing values)
band 1-set Fc to 31.22, set gain to -4
band 2-set Fc to 78.14, set gain to -4
band 3-set Fc to 99.62, set gain to -4

when watching lower quality vids - choose manual EQ slot with above settings --> ENJOY!!!

use Flat setting when you watch high quality videos like blurays
Hi Chad,

The settings you're recommending for the manual peq aren't wrong but they aren't going to be helpful for each and every room. Audio settings aren't a one size fits all thing, like Marcus said, they are dependent on listening position, speakers, etc.

To get the most out of the umc-200 you'd have to get a mic and take measurements in your room from your listening position using room eq wizard. Then you could get some eq numbers specific to your room that you can plug into the peq settings.

There's a lot to learn but if you have the patience it's well worth it! People on the forums here and at home theater shack are very helpful for people getting started taking measurements.

Enjoy!

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Old 03-20-2016, 10:03 PM
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Not enough information to be comprehensible (to me).



Care to elaborate why and how the EQ settings you've posted "improve the compressed audio in low quality vids"?
Ok. this is what audio compression does to the original uncompressed audio. These are the common artifacts of compression:

> rumbling, and other low end noises - brought down the subwoofer frequencies below 100Hz to -4dB

> boomy dialog- lower 300Hz to -2dB

> weak dialog- raising the 2.5KHz and 4KHz to +3dB with q=0.25 will brighten up dialog and increase vocal presence

> loss of clarity and crispness - increase frequencies above 4KHz to +3dB
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Old 03-20-2016, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad Djsinger View Post
Ok. this is what audio compression does to the original uncompressed audio. These are the common artifacts of compression:

> rumbling, and other low end noises - brought down the subwoofer frequencies below 100Hz to -4dB

> boomy dialog- lower 300Hz to -2dB

> weak dialog- raising the 2.5KHz and 4KHz to +3dB with q=0.25 will brighten up dialog and increase vocal presence

> loss of clarity and crispness - increase frequencies above 4KHz to +3dB
If EQ could so easily improve lossy coders, they would include such EQ. But it doesn't, so they don't.

Just curious, where did you find this alleged list of deficiencies? To which codec did it refer?

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Old 03-20-2016, 11:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Chad Djsinger View Post
Ok. this is what audio compression does to the original uncompressed audio. These are the common artifacts of compression:

> rumbling, and other low end noises - brought down the subwoofer frequencies below 100Hz to -4dB

> boomy dialog- lower 300Hz to -2dB

> weak dialog- raising the 2.5KHz and 4KHz to +3dB with q=0.25 will brighten up dialog and increase vocal presence

> loss of clarity and crispness - increase frequencies above 4KHz to +3dB
That's not how it works. First there are numerous compression algorithms with numerous settings that influence the outcome. You can't just generally EQ something from which you don't know how it was recorded, processed and encoded.
"clarity and crispness is in the range above 4kHz" etc.pp. are just general guidelines in production but it has no value for reproduction. As Roger said, if EQ could generally improve lossy encodings then it would be part of the decoder but it isn't. It's not just an oversight. EQ can't bring back information that was lost during the encoding process.

Markus

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Old 03-21-2016, 07:39 AM
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That's not how it works. First there are numerous compression algorithms with numerous settings that influence the outcome. You can't just generally EQ something from which you don't know how it was recorded, processed and encoded.
"clarity and crispness is in the range above 4kHz" etc.pp. are just general guidelines in production but it has no value for reproduction. As Roger said, if EQ could generally improve lossy encodings then it would be part of the decoder but it isn't. It's not just an oversight. EQ can't bring back information that was lost during the encoding process.
compressed audio is a chaotic mess...you got dolby digital, dts, ---dts sounding better, with dolby digital cutting off frequencies losing alot of what is in the original uncompressed audio. In the home theater geeks episode 195 (20-30 minutes in, actually listen to the whole netcast)...listen to brian mccarty about the 400 sound engineers A/Bing dolby digital and dts at the hitchcock theater in universal studios in california. He talks about how the equalization all started 40 years ago and how they are trying to change or remove it completely like a bad habit.

then you have videos ripped from bluray and other media compressed again into another format for internet streaming...algorithms processed over other algorithms - lowering the quality of the audio

The AES is pushing toward a new standard for audio...flat at all frequencies, no equalization, uncompressed audio, same volume level.

we can't bring back the original information but with the eq settings we can make it TOLERABLE at least.

The settings are just for the low quality movies you find on streaming websites, the ones with ads, or other obvious low quality vids that arent on original media like bluray or game consoles

they are general setting used in film production, tips on how to rescue bad recordings of audio when retakes cannot be redone and the sound mixer has no choice but to equalize.

as recommended by brian mccarty, chair of the AES technical committee - flat, no equalization, regardless of room (size, shape or acoustics)
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Old 03-21-2016, 07:57 AM - Thread Starter
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You're confusing a couple of topics.
McCarty is talking about the X-Curve not about audio encoding.
Your EQ settings might be beneficial in certain cases when applied to a specific single track. But first, this is the job of the mixer. Second, once all separate tracks are mixed into a stereo or multichannel master your EQ will ultimately distort sounds that already have been equalized during production.

Markus

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Old 03-21-2016, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
You're confusing a couple of topics.
McCarty is talking about the X-Curve not about audio encoding.
Your EQ settings might be beneficial in certain cases when applied to a specific single track. But first, this is the job of the mixer. Second, once all separate tracks are mixed into a stereo or multichannel master your EQ will ultimately distort sounds that already have been equalized during production.
McCarty is talking about alot of topics - x-curve, encoding - dts, dolby digital as compared to uncompressed audio (which he is pushing for), even binaural recording.

the eq settings are beneficial for low quality audio, like in those types of videos i mentioned
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Old 03-21-2016, 08:44 AM - Thread Starter
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McCarty is talking about alot of topics - x-curve, encoding - dts, dolby digital as compared to uncompressed audio (which he is pushing for), even binaural recording.
Yes, but he's not talking about the EQ settings you proposed.

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Originally Posted by Chad Djsinger View Post
the eq settings are beneficial for low quality audio, like in those types of videos i mentioned
Maybe you like that kind of EQ curve (which is totally fine) but there's no data to support the notion those EQ settings would be generally beneficial when applied to "low quality audio".

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole

Last edited by markus767; 03-21-2016 at 08:56 AM.
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Old 03-21-2016, 09:02 AM
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Yes, but he's not talking about the EQ settings you proposed.

Maybe you like that kind of EQ curve (which is totally fine) but there's no data to support the notion those EQ settings would be generally beneficial to any kind of "low quality audio".
He's talking about eliminating EQ...using equlaization for playback should be avoided.

I only use the EQ settings for really bad audio from the sources I mentioned. For bluray, game consoles, i use flat EQ. Not a fan of EQ calibration for the room. One change in the room, like the moving of a chair or side table can change the whole EQ, and different areas of the room if you did do measurements will never be the same. Your ears will already adapt to the room's acoustics and just setting your system to flat EQ will be better than playing around with the EQ settings and making it worse.
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Old 03-21-2016, 09:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad Djsinger View Post
He's talking about eliminating EQ...using equlaization for playback should be avoided.
He's entitled to have his own opinion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad Djsinger View Post
I only use the EQ settings for really bad audio from the sources I mentioned.
Understood, but why would those specific EQ settings you've listed be generally beneficial? Or is it just your personal preference?

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Originally Posted by Chad Djsinger View Post
For bluray, game consoles, i use flat EQ. Not a fan of EQ calibration for the room. One change in the room, like the moving of a chair or side table can change the whole EQ, and different areas of the room if you did do measurements will never be the same. Your ears will already adapt to the room's acoustics and just setting your system to flat EQ will be better than playing around with the EQ settings and making it worse.
The room evidently distorts the sound coming out of your speakers. So there is no question that any room represents a filter in itself. Our hearing is able to "hear through" some of that distortion but a) this does work only to some extend (e.g. you can't hear through ringing bass notes) and b) sound quality will increase when your brain is relieved of doing permanent "error correction". Whether and to what extend EQ or room treatments help in reducing such distortion is still debated. Good read: "Sound reproduction" by Toole.

Markus

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Old 03-21-2016, 09:29 AM
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Yes, but he's not talking about the EQ settings you proposed.

Maybe you like that kind of EQ curve (which is totally fine) but there's no data to support the notion those EQ settings would be generally beneficial to any kind of "low quality audio".
He's talking about eliminating EQ...using equalization for playback should be avoided.

I only use the EQ settings for really bad audio from the sources I mentioned. For bluray, game consoles, i use flat EQ.

Not a fan of EQ calibration for the room. One change in the room, like the moving of a chair or side table can change the whole EQ, and if you did measurements at different areas of the room you will never get the same results.

Your ears will already adapt to the room's acoustics and just setting your system to flat EQ will be better than playing around with the EQ settings and making it worse.

I'ts not that I like the EQ settings i posted, a simple google search for sound frequency spectrum will describe to you the different frequencies in Hz

30-500 low bass notes
500-2000 human speech
2000-8000 vocal presence
8000-16000 brilliance, sibilance in speech
16000-32000 airy sound

google search film production eq and you will find several results talking about equalization to rescue the sound

compressing video files will always result in inferior audio...compression removes information from the original.

i am just using the EQ to increase and decrease frequencies that were changed after all the compression done to the original
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Old 03-21-2016, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Chad Djsinger View Post
I'ts not that I like the EQ settings i posted, a simple google search for sound frequency spectrum will describe to you the different frequencies in Hz

30-500 low bass notes
500-2000 human speech
2000-8000 vocal presence
8000-16000 brilliance, sibilance in speech
16000-32000 airy sound

google search film production eq and you will find several results talking about equalization to rescue the sound

compressing video files will always result in inferior audio...compression removes information from the original.

i am just using the EQ to increase and decrease frequencies that were changed after all the compression done to the original
You're confusing topics. Where's the connection between "film production eq" and "using the EQ to increase and decrease frequencies that were changed after all the compression done to the original"??

P.S. When you use the word "compression", are you referring to dynamic compression of lossy codecs?

Markus

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Old 03-21-2016, 11:58 AM
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You're confusing topics. Where's the connection between "film production eq" and "using the EQ to increase and decrease frequencies that were changed after all the compression done to the original"??

When you use the word "compression", are you referring to dynamic compression of lossy codecs?
When I use the word compression, i refer to a 30-50gb bluray compressed to 1gb

I used film production in the search because that result will show you the frequencies you need to boost or lower...that would be dialogue, deep bass, sound effects, etc

if you use musicin your search, you would get the frequencies of instruments, but you will notice similarities for both film and music

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Old 03-21-2016, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Chad Djsinger View Post
When I use the word compression, i refer to a 30-50gb bluray compressed to 1gb
So again, what references can you cite that would support the notion that the EQ settings you've shown would improve each and every compressed video file regardless of compression settings and codec?
And, how is this related to Brian McCarty talking about the X-Curve? By the way, here's something you might want to read: http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=17839

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Old 03-21-2016, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Chad Djsinger View Post
I used film production in the search because that result will show you the frequencies you need to boost or lower...that would be dialogue, deep bass, sound effects, etc

if you use musicin your search, you would get the frequencies of instruments, but you will notice similarities for both film and music
No, you don't need to boost or lower anything. That's the job of the mixer and mastering engineer. By applying the EQ settings you've posted you are simply distorting the sound. If you like it that way, that's fine but in no way these settings will generally improve playback.

Markus

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Old 03-23-2016, 06:11 AM
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Bluetooth dongle

Hello, I don't know if this has been answered before. I just got my "new" UMC-200, and seeing that it is almost impossible to obtain the bluetooth dongle, was wondering whether someone had found a compatible one? Or where it could be found!

Thank you all.
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Old 03-23-2016, 06:22 AM
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Bluetooth

Did you try calling/emailing Emotiva? They are pretty responsive.

Also, bluetooth dongles are available all over the internet, here is one:
Outlaw Audio's Model BTR-100 Bluetooth Receiver with aptX, NFC and AAC
outlawaudio.com/products/btr100<dot>html
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Old 04-17-2016, 08:01 PM
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My UMC-200 just exploded (no... literally exploded) and I'm finding reports of other Emotiva components sharing the same fate.

Guess what brand its replacement won't be.
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Old 04-18-2016, 12:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by compcond View Post
My UMC-200 just exploded (no... literally exploded) and I'm finding reports of other Emotiva components sharing the same fate.

Guess what brand its replacement won't be.
Which part exploded? Got a picture?

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole
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Old 04-18-2016, 08:00 AM
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Which part exploded? Got a picture?
Sorry... not yet.

I had foot surgery 3 weeks ago, am non-weight bearing and can't walk.

Rather difficult to maneuver the carcass into a position where I can disembowel it.
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Old 05-02-2016, 08:28 PM
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I recently picked up a crown xls-1500 and umc-200. I really wanted the peq. So far so good. I'm running 2way econowave speakers and dual 18" funk audio sealed subs. For more refined listening I substitute Merlin TSM's... just lovely.

I read through the entire umc thread and have a question for a particular scenario which didn't seem to come up.

What I’d like to do now is to implement a gentle bass boost bell curve that will effect both the subs, and the mains (ie, a single house curve that emcompases frequencies on both sides of the crossover between the LR's (set to small) and the subs).

I crossed my subs to my mains at 100 hz (LR set at small 100hz , enhanced bass is off), and I used all 3 available subwoofer parametric slots to correct the 3 worst room modes using sharp cuts, with high Q's (as notch filters), and I now have very good sub integration. I used REW to measure.



So, in 2.1 stereo mode, if I were to put an eq like +3db at 120hz (using one of the 11 peq's for each of the LR mains) with a gentle Q on the R,L, main speakers , will the curve carry over into the sub output and be superimposed over the eq settings I’ve implemented for the subs? Or, will the left side of the curve be truncated at the 100hz crossover (mains HP) point? What I'm hoping to get is a smooth bell curve centered around 120hz for quiter listening (fletcher munson compensation), and for poorly mastered music that could use a bass bump.
cheers

Last edited by drumzy; 05-02-2016 at 08:36 PM.
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Emotiva Umc 200 7 1 Home Theater Preamp Surround Processor , Onkyo Tx Nr3008 9 2 Channel Network Home Theater Receiver , Denon Avr 2312ci Receiver
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