PLEASE HELP ME "WARM UP" MY SOUND - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 39 Old 09-27-2013, 07:28 AM - Thread Starter
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I AM HAVING BAD LUCK ATTEMPTING TO MAKE MY HOME AUDIO BECOME WARM AND NOT AS FOWARD BRIGHT SOUNDING.
HERES WHAT I HAVE:
MONITOR AUDIO RS6 FRONT SPEAKERS
MONITOR AUDIO RS LCR CENTER
MONITOR AUDIO FXI REARS
POLK AUDIO PSW1000 SUBWOOFER
MARANT SR7007 RECEIVER USED AS PREAMP
ROTEL 1095 200X5 POWER AMPLIFIER
AUDIOQUEST INTERCONNECTS


LONG STORY SHORT, I TRIED USING A MARANTZ RECEIVER AFTER USING AN ONKYO AND FINDING IT TOO BRIGHT. MY SOUND STILL SEEMS TOO BRIGHT EVEN IF I DONT USE THE ROTEL AND ONLY USE THE MARANTZ! !
I CANT HEAR A DIFFERENCE IN SOUND WHEN USING MY ROTEL OR MY MARANTZ. . STILL BRIGHT USING ONE OR THE OTHER.
HERES MY QUESTION, HOW DO I WARM MY SPEAKERS A LITTLE? BY DUMPING THE ROTEL FOR A PARASOUND OR NAD AMPS? OR WILL I GET BETTER RESULTS IF I BUY THE OUTLAW 975 PREAMP AND MATE IT WITH MY ROTEL? ?
WHICH WOULD YIELD BETTER RESULTS?
PLEASE HELP!
PS I HAVE FOUND A GOOD DEAL ON A LEXICON TWO CHANNEL AMP TO POWER MY FRONTS.
IS LEXICON A WARM UNIT?
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post #2 of 39 Old 09-27-2013, 08:11 AM
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No. It isn't an equipment problem. It is a preference problem. If you want to reduce the higher frequency output of the system, you need to work with the EQ built into the receiver. It should have a routine that allows you to EQ manually. You can adjust the cut to your preference.
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post #3 of 39 Old 09-27-2013, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
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OK. . . BUT THAT WONT REALLY WARM UP MY SOUND. . IM LOOKING TO WARM THINGS UP. .
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post #4 of 39 Old 09-27-2013, 08:50 AM
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Easy. Get new speakers.
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post #5 of 39 Old 09-27-2013, 08:58 AM
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Looking at new speakers is good advice and the first thing I would suggest. I have never listened to Monitor Audio speakers as I have Klipsch and many regard them as bright and forward. I like them especially for live concert blu ray recordings. Some folks prefer tube hybrid amplifiers like the Butler 5150 with them.
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post #6 of 39 Old 09-27-2013, 09:33 AM
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Turn down the treble.

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post #7 of 39 Old 09-27-2013, 09:34 AM
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Unfortunately, you bought Monitor Audios. Did you get a good demo of them before purchasing? From prior experience with the RS6, the Monitors are a bit forward in the upper mid-range/low treble which can be fatiguing to certain listeners (like me) after a while. Yes, you can try using EQ (like Audyssey Pro) to specifically tame certain frequency ranges, but this will bring about it own tradeoffs (like decreased imaging/soundstage depth/etc).

My advice would be to stick with the Marantz and Rotel source gear and go find yourself some new speakers. If you are looking for a richer sound (without compromising much on accuracy), try brands like Sonus faber, Vienna Acoustics, Dynaudio, Legacy Audio. You might want to look at brands such as Aeriel or even the higher end (Reference and Signature) lines from Paradigm as well though they are more of a "neutral" sound as opposed to warm.

Best advice is to go to the audio shops and listen, preferably on similar source components. Learn what you like. It's fun.
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post #8 of 39 Old 09-27-2013, 09:35 AM
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The 800 lb gorillas in the room nobody is mentioning are the room acoustics, configuration of seating and speakers, and the disperson characteristics of the speakers on perceived spectral performance. You can chase products all day, but IF it's acoustics that are the source of what you are perceiving, then you will have an endless and expensive journey. Speakers and rooms have to be "matched." A speaker that sounds incredible in a moderate or smaller room that is acoustically-friendly may sound terrible in one that is moderate to large and not acoustically friendly, especially with regards to high-end spectral energy. Just sayin' smile.gif

Tell us about your "gorillas." biggrin.gif
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post #9 of 39 Old 09-27-2013, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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HOW DOES THE LEXICON 212 SOUND? IS LEXICON WARM OR BRIGHT?
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post #10 of 39 Old 09-27-2013, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitecamaross View Post

HOW DOES THE LEXICON 212 SOUND? IS LEXICON WARM OR BRIGHT?

No, one would assume it is accurate. You need to define what you mean by warm. The rest of us would define it as having less high frequency content relative to the low frequency content than normal. There is no way to achieve that other than by cutting the high frequencies or raising the low frequencies. How you do that is immaterial. You can buy inaccurate speakers or soak up some of the high frequency content with traps. The fastest, cheapest and easiest way to do it is to EQ the preamp so that you cut the higher frequencies. It isn't voodoo or rocket science. It is just an EQ adjustment. It is very simple. Why make a big case out of it. By the way, it is rude to post in capital letters.
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post #11 of 39 Old 09-27-2013, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitecamaross View Post

HOW DOES THE LEXICON 212 SOUND? IS LEXICON WARM OR BRIGHT?

Do you understand that nobody can tell you what a Lexicon 212 will sound in your room or any other piece of gear for that matter? The sound you get is very dependent on the acoustics of your room. That's why when you change from Marantz to Rotel you hear the same characteristics. What you are hearing is your room characteristics not the gear.

As Sanjay suggested try turning down the treble or look for something with good room correction.
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post #12 of 39 Old 09-27-2013, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post

The 800 lb gorillas in the room nobody is mentioning are the room acoustics, configuration of seating and speakers, and the disperson characteristics of the speakers on perceived spectral performance. You can chase products all day, but IF it's acoustics that are the source of what you are perceiving, then you will have an endless and expensive journey. Speakers and rooms have to be "matched." A speaker that sounds incredible in a moderate or smaller room that is acoustically-friendly may sound terrible in one that is moderate to large and not acoustically friendly, especially with regards to high-end spectral energy. Just sayin' smile.gif

Tell us about your "gorillas." biggrin.gif


Great post! I would also like to know if the OP has CORRECTLY run the
Audyssey room correction set-up?
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post #13 of 39 Old 09-27-2013, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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I DID THIS AND TO ME IT WAS SUPER WEIRD BECAUSE WHEN LISTENING IN PURE DIRECT MODE THROUGH THE MARANTZ, I HEARD MORE BASS THAN PURE DIRECT THROUGH THE ROTEL AND THEMARANTZ PRE AMP OUTPUTS. I RAN AUDESSEY ON 8 DIFFERENT POSITIONS , LISTENED TO IT THROUGH THE ROTEL AND THE BASS WAS OK KINDA FLAT SO THEN I UNPLUGGED THE SPEAKERS FROM THE ROTEL AND PLUGGED THEM INTO THE MARANTZ AND HEARD WAAAYY MORE BASS WITH IT? ? ? WHY? I DIDNT TOUCH ANYTHING ELSE BUT CONNECT THE SPEAKERS! !
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post #14 of 39 Old 09-27-2013, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
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SORRY GUYS IM POSTING FROM MY PHONE AND IT KEEPS ENGAGING CAPS !
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post #15 of 39 Old 09-27-2013, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitecamaross View Post

I DID THIS AND TO ME IT WAS SUPER WEIRD BECAUSE WHEN LISTENING IN PURE DIRECT MODE THROUGH THE MARANTZ, I HEARD MORE BASS THAN PURE DIRECT THROUGH THE ROTEL AND THEMARANTZ PRE AMP OUTPUTS. I RAN AUDESSEY ON 8 DIFFERENT POSITIONS , LISTENED TO IT THROUGH THE ROTEL AND THE BASS WAS OK KINDA FLAT SO THEN I UNPLUGGED THE SPEAKERS FROM THE ROTEL AND PLUGGED THEM INTO THE MARANTZ AND HEARD WAAAYY MORE BASS WITH IT? ? ? WHY? I DIDNT TOUCH ANYTHING ELSE BUT CONNECT THE SPEAKERS! !

The amps probably have different input impedances and that affects the volume which affects the sound in a subjective, sighted evaluation. In order to be sure they sound the same, they need to be level matched and tested blind.
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post #16 of 39 Old 09-27-2013, 11:00 AM
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Whitecamaross,


Are you saying that the only change you made was going from the ONKYO to MARANTZ?
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post #17 of 39 Old 09-27-2013, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post

The amps probably have different input impedances and that affects the volume which affects the sound in a subjective, sighted evaluation. In order to be sure they sound the same, they need to be level matched and tested blind.

The old gain structure thing. smile.gif It's useful after all. biggrin.gif Often overlooked.
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post #18 of 39 Old 09-27-2013, 11:43 AM - Thread Starter
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I THOUGHT ONKYO WAS BRIGHT AND I KEPT READING THAT MARANTZ ISNT. . SO I BOUGHT IT AND IT STILL SOUNDS BRIGHT. . NOW IM ATTEMPTING TO SEE IF THE LEXICON AMP WILL WARM MY FRONT SPEAKERS A LITTLE FOR TWO CHANNEL LISTENING AT THE VERY LEAST. . .
I WAS WONDERING IF THE OUTLAW PREAMP WOULD BE WARMER THAN THE MARANTZ?
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post #19 of 39 Old 09-27-2013, 12:04 PM
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Warmth comes from around the 200hz and even the 300hz area where we get a sense of fullness as well...

http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm

If you were to measure the frequency response of your room, I would bet you had some low areas or even possibly severe dips in those regions.

Until you actually measure the frequency response and see what you are actually dealing with... everything else is just a guess.

You can spend a lifetime of purchasing different equipment trying to fix the problem when in reality it could be a relatively simple and free fix.
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post #20 of 39 Old 09-27-2013, 12:24 PM - Thread Starter
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SO WHAT ARE YOU SUGGESTING?
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post #21 of 39 Old 09-27-2013, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post

Warmth comes from around the 200hz and even the 300hz area where we get a sense of fullness as well...

http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm

If you were to measure the frequency response of your room, I would bet you had some low areas or even possibly severe dips in those regions.

Until you actually measure the frequency response and see what you are actually dealing with... everything else is just a guess.

You can spend a lifetime of purchasing different equipment trying to fix the problem when in reality it could be a relatively simple and free fix.

Bulls-eye! Perfect post.
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Originally Posted by ivanpino View Post

Do you understand that nobody can tell you what a Lexicon 212 will sound in your room or any other piece of gear for that matter? The sound you get is very dependent on the acoustics of your room. That's why when you change from Marantz to Rotel you hear the same characteristics. What you are hearing is your room characteristics not the gear.

Also excellent.
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SO WHAT ARE YOU SUGGESTING?

You didn't ask me, but I'll chime in. As I said in post #8, you need to answer some questions about your room and your configuration before anybody can make a meaningful suggestion for help.
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post #22 of 39 Old 09-27-2013, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
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OK. . . .
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post #23 of 39 Old 09-27-2013, 12:35 PM
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As Sanjay suggested try turning down the treble or look for something with good room correction.
I think my suggestion wasn't expensive enough for the OP to try.
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post #24 of 39 Old 09-27-2013, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by whitecamaross View Post

SO WHAT ARE YOU SUGGESTING?

Download TrueRTA, spend a few dollars to unlock the higher resolution version. Use the calibration mic that came with your AVR and see what the frequency response of your room looks like.

(and I recommend TrueRTA over the more common REW because it works straight off the bat without all the fuss)
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post #25 of 39 Old 09-27-2013, 12:44 PM
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I think my suggestion wasn't expensive enough for the OP to try.

Reducing the treble can certainly lesson any harsh brightness but it won't affect 'warmth' which 200 - 300hz is responsible for.
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post #26 of 39 Old 09-27-2013, 01:07 PM
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Reducing the treble can certainly lesson any harsh brightness but it won't affect 'warmth' which 200 - 300hz is responsible for.
You're sure that the OP is using the term "warmth" to refer to a problem he's hearing specifically between 200 - 300Hz?

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post #27 of 39 Old 09-27-2013, 01:11 PM - Thread Starter
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IM REFERRING TO HIGH FREQUENCIES BEING TO HARSH WHEN PLAYED LOUDLY. THE FORWARDNESS THAT MAKES YOU CRINGE AS YOU CRANK IT UP . I LIKE THAT SOUND THAT NO MATTER HOW LOUD IT IS, YOU DONT WANT TO COVER YOIR EARS.
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post #28 of 39 Old 09-27-2013, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

You're sure that the OP is using the term "warmth" to refer to a problem he's hearing specifically between 200 - 300Hz?

My wild guess is that he's heard so many audiophiles singing the praises of "warmth" that he's lost the trail toward accurate sound reproduction.
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post #29 of 39 Old 09-27-2013, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

You're sure that the OP is using the term "warmth" to refer to a problem he's hearing specifically between 200 - 300Hz?

Adjusting EQ without first seeing the frequency response of your room is just guesswork. You really need to see what actual areas are high or low first.
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post #30 of 39 Old 09-27-2013, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitecamaross View Post

IM REFERRING TO HIGH FREQUENCIES BEING TO HARSH WHEN PLAYED LOUDLY. THE FORWARDNESS THAT MAKES YOU CRINGE AS YOU CRANK IT UP . I LIKE THAT SOUND THAT NO MATTER HOW LOUD IT IS, YOU DONT WANT TO COVER YOIR EARS.

A low 100 - 200 - 300 - 400hz can still be responsible for that as it makes a system sound thin and analytical. Warmth and fullness and body is lacking.
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