Dolby Digital Plus and Netflix on Various AVRs - Page 18 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #511 of 529 Old 06-11-2015, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by mcwheels View Post
Also the article link above pertaining to the issue when using Sony receivers is kind of strange, it just says you should switch the audio feed on Netflix from 5.1 to stereo, which doesn't solve the issue. Unless I'm missing something and somehow doing so will still broadcast in 5.1?
Netflix will broadcast in stereo and the AVR can simulate 5.1 audio using one of several simulation modes depending on the brand/model: DD PLII, Dolby Surround, DTS Neo:6, or DTS Neo:X.

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post #512 of 529 Old 06-13-2015, 04:38 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Netflix will broadcast in stereo and the AVR can simulate 5.1 audio using one of several simulation modes depending on the brand/model: DD PLII, Dolby Surround, DTS Neo:6, or DTS Neo:X.
But this doesn't solve the issue. If 5.1 is broken, then listening to 2 channels in simulated 5.1 isn't a fix, it's a workaround, and a poor one in my opinion. (from a manufacturer/Netflix point of view)

It seems this is just going to continue to be an issue for many of us. My work around is streaming via ChromeCast instead of Apple TV, which seems to help.
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post #513 of 529 Old 06-13-2015, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Chewieez View Post
My work around is streaming via ChromeCast instead of Apple TV, which seems to help.
That seems unusual. Is it using DD+ when you're streaming via Chromecast? From what I can tell typically the issue occurs primarily with Chromecast since it only uses DD+ if the receiver supports it.
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post #514 of 529 Old 06-15-2015, 10:57 AM
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Use stereo stream as an alternative, seriously?

I can confirm I have this problem on my Denon AVR-790, but not my Onkyo TX-SR308. I contacted Denon support; Rep claimed they haven't seen any issues with DD+ specifically. I know that's a lie, and I politely told him so.
I see people on this forum offering the following solution: "Use the stereo stream and then run simulated surround on your receiver."
There are two major flaws with this 'solution'.
As others have pointed out, that isn't as good as real studio mixed discrete surround sound. But more importantly to me:
Has anyone actually listened to the stereo mix on a decent system? With or without a simulation up-mixer, it sounds like garbage! The digital compression artifacts make most films nearly unwatchable IMO. In fact, I much prefer the DD+ stream down-mixed to stereo over the actual stereo stream for headphone/stereo use because the DD+ has less noticeable compression.
One solution is to have the playback device do the decoding to MultiCh PCM. Many lower cost devices can't, unfortunately. Netlfix for Windows 8 can, though. Just go into the sound settings in Windows and set to output 5.1 PCM over HDMI, and turn off the two exclusive/priority options. That disables the ability to bitstream, so Windows has to do the DD+ decoding.
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Last edited by kitti; 06-18-2015 at 10:03 AM. Reason: clarified model #
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post #515 of 529 Old 06-16-2015, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by sourworm View Post
That seems unusual. Is it using DD+ when you're streaming via Chromecast? From what I can tell typically the issue occurs primarily with Chromecast since it only uses DD+ if the receiver supports it.
Yes, DD+ on ChromeCast. I don't notice the issue as much as I do when streaming through appletv so it works for me. I generally stream from android phone, to ChromeCast.

So I'd add for me, the problem is much worse with Appletv and Netflix.

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post #516 of 529 Old 06-17-2015, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Chewieez View Post
I don't notice the issue as much as I do when streaming through appletv
I am confused why apple tv is causing an issue for you, it doesn't support dolby digital plus (just plain dolby digital). I often use it for Netflix instead of my TiVo to avoid the distortion on my older Denon 889.
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post #517 of 529 Old 06-18-2015, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by shoeboo View Post
I am confused why apple tv is causing an issue for you, it doesn't support dolby digital plus (just plain dolby digital). I often use it for Netflix instead of my TiVo to avoid the distortion on my older Denon 889.
Hmm you're right, however, it clips heavily in the center channel frequently. Maybe a totally separate problem.

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post #518 of 529 Old 06-30-2015, 03:28 PM
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First time posting, just want to add my experience with this issue:

I have a Marantz NR1403 and was experiencing bad issues in the center channel on Netflix DD+ (and no problem other DD+ sources or Netflix Dolby or stereo sources), streaming from both Roku3 and Samsung Smart Blu-Ray player.

There's an article on Marantz support recommending a firmware update for this issue, which I had done recently.

This solved that main issue, but I do still hear audio artifacts in the surround channels, both front and rear. Marantz support concluded that there must be something wrong with the Netflix stream. That would surprise me. From what I'm reading and my experience, it seems like Netflix just uses a slightly different encoding/streaming of DD+ that messes with some receivers.

Workarounds that don't work for me:
-Roku 3 PCM: apparently this always downsamples to stereo, not sure if that's by design? Even when I set it not to.
-5.1 PCM from Blu-Ray player: for whatever reason, it will decode DD+ from disc and send it as PCM signal, but will only bitstream from streaming sources
-Simulated 5.1: not great on this AVR

Hopefully I didn't mess up my first post too much, just wanted to add my experience to the conversation.
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post #519 of 529 Old 06-30-2015, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by metalvan View Post
I have a Marantz NR1403 and was experiencing bad issues in the center channel on Netflix DD+ (and no problem other DD+ sources or Netflix Dolby or stereo sources), streaming from both Roku3 and Samsung Smart Blu-Ray player.

There's an article on Marantz support recommending a firmware update for this issue, which I had done recently.

This solved that main issue, but I do still hear audio artifacts in the surround channels, both front and rear. Marantz support concluded that there must be something wrong with the Netflix stream. That would surprise me. From what I'm reading and my experience, it seems like Netflix just uses a slightly different encoding/streaming of DD+ that messes with some receivers.
Thanks for posting and sharing your experience with the NR1403 here. From the users that have posted here, the DD+ audio artifacts that sound like chirps/beeps in the surround speakers seem to be an issue only with the Denon & Marantz AVRs. I don't think I have seen anyone post here with that specific complaint with any other brand of receiver. I have the Denon X4000 myself, and have been struggling to get any resolution from Denon on the issue since reporting the problem back in November of 2014.

In my case, I actually had a very helpful customer service rep take my phone call the second time I called about it, and he was willing to take note of a few scenes in shows that were particularly bothersome to me and try listening to them on their setup rather than trying to blame the source content. I had also explained to him that I didn't hear the issue when I used my PS3 to decode the DD+ instead of bitstreaming it to the AVR. In a few hours, he called me back saying he heard the same problem with their unit and agreed there was a problem with the decoding happening in the receiver, and would escalate the issue to the engineering team.

Unfortunately, 7 months later, and that's still where this problem is sitting. Actually, if you go back further in the thread, you'll see that someone else has had an open case with Denon regarding this problem since July of last year. It's been about a month since I last called them, so I'm probably due for my monthly check-in with their customer service team to see if they can give me any update or ETA. I wouldn't expect any news from their side based on my past experience, but if I do hear something, I'll be sure to let you know back here. I'm not sure if Marantz and Denon have the same engineering team for these kind of issues, but it might be helpful for you to call back and tell them that Denon has already reproduced the issue and has had at least 2 open cases sitting in their engineering team's queue for several months now. Good luck, and keep us posted on any news from the Marantz side!
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post #520 of 529 Old 07-05-2015, 03:33 PM
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Just adding my two cents.
PS3 to Pioneer receiver - sibilance with Netflix Dolby Digital. Some programs I don't notice it, others are completely unbearable. 9 times out of 10 I just go old school and select stereo then up-convert to Pro-Logic. A compromise for sure, and part of the reason I still by Blu-rays even when the movie is on Netflix. Some frustrations just aren't worth the hassle to resolve.
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post #521 of 529 Unread 07-25-2015, 01:05 PM
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Is this problem still happening for Denon receivers? I thought a firmware update during ~Feb/Mar/APr 2015 fixed it for Denon receivers.

I just got a Denon X2200W. Its a recently released model, so no updates were shown when I checked for firmware updates. I was planning to buy a Roku 2 device soon primarily for Netflix and hoped to get DD+.

Did firmware updates solve this for 2014 and older Denon receivers and therefore a new model should be okay, or are some Denon receivers still having this problem even after recent firmware updates?

Last edited by checker9; 07-25-2015 at 01:10 PM.
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post #522 of 529 Unread Yesterday, 06:57 AM
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I have an X2100W and DD+ works fine
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post #523 of 529 Unread Today, 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by checker9 View Post
Is this problem still happening for Denon receivers? I thought a firmware update during ~Feb/Mar/APr 2015 fixed it for Denon receivers.

I just got a Denon X2200W. Its a recently released model, so no updates were shown when I checked for firmware updates. I was planning to buy a Roku 2 device soon primarily for Netflix and hoped to get DD+.

Did firmware updates solve this for 2014 and older Denon receivers and therefore a new model should be okay, or are some Denon receivers still having this problem even after recent firmware updates?
The original issue of a distortion mostly from the center channel on "S" and "F" sounds was fixed from that firmware update. Now the issue with DD+ is a "chirping" noise from the rear left channel. I'm still currently hearing this issue on my E300 (2013 model) and have the latest firmware update.
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post #524 of 529 Unread Today, 05:58 AM
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Thanks for replies. So far (about 4 hours) I have noticed nothing unusual with DD+ Netflix content via Roku 2 on X2200W.

Last edited by checker9; Today at 06:01 AM.
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post #525 of 529 Unread Today, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by checker9 View Post
Is this problem still happening for Denon receivers? I thought a firmware update during ~Feb/Mar/APr 2015 fixed it for Denon receivers.
I have an older Denon that is not firmware update-able by the customer, so I assume the problem will remain forever/until Netflix changes the way they encore DD+
Too bad Denon doesn't stand behind their products. If this was an American automobile, there would likely be a recall to fix it for free.
I would almost think it is class-actionable (even out of warranty); them advertising DD+ decoding and the truth being that it can't do so properly.
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post #526 of 529 Unread Today, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by kitti View Post
I have an older Denon that is not firmware update-able by the customer, so I assume the problem will remain forever/until Netflix changes the way they encore DD+
Too bad Denon doesn't stand behind their products. If this was an American automobile, there would likely be a recall to fix it for free.
I would almost think it is class-actionable (even out of warranty); them advertising DD+ decoding and the truth being that it can't do so properly.
I agree but it might be a case of Netflix adjusting the format and it is not really DD+ (I think I read that Netflix modified it.)
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post #527 of 529 Unread Today, 01:39 PM
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I believe the problem occurred when Dolby updated the DD+ specification to reduce the bandwidth requirements of the format, which they announced back in April of 2012. Netflix (and most likely some other streaming services) were quick to update to the new standard to conserve bandwidth, while some of the AVR manufacturers lagged behind. Several users reported center channel distortion on dialogue, especially on "S" and "F" sounds. Denon made an announcement about the issue and began rolling out firmware updates around February of last year. So in this case, Netflix was compliant to the latest DD+ spec, and it took Denon, Sony, and maybe others a year or so to catch up. Since that time, several here have reported artifacts in the front and back surround channels on DD+ encodings that sound like "chirps" or "beeps". This seems to only affect Denon and Marantz receivers. Denon customer service has confirmed the issue, but no official announcement has been made about whether there will be a fix.

If you purchased your received after the format was updated to it's current specification, I'd think Denon would be on the hook to offer you a fix if they advertised it as DD+ capable. Receivers purchased earlier than that may not have the hardware or networking capabilities required to update to the current standard, so those users might have to upgrade to a newer AVR if they depend on that format.
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post #528 of 529 Unread Today, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Cheesebach View Post
I believe the problem occurred when Dolby updated the DD+ specification to reduce the bandwidth requirements of the format, which they announced back in April of 2012. Netflix (and most likely some other streaming services) were quick to update to the new standard to conserve bandwidth, while some of the AVR manufacturers lagged behind. Several users reported center channel distortion on dialogue, especially on "S" and "F" sounds. Denon made an announcement about the issue and began rolling out firmware updates around February of last year. So in this case, Netflix was compliant to the latest DD+ spec, and it took Denon, Sony, and maybe others a year or so to catch up. Since that time, several here have reported artifacts in the front and back surround channels on DD+ encodings that sound like "chirps" or "beeps". This seems to only affect Denon and Marantz receivers. Denon customer service has confirmed the issue, but no official announcement has been made about whether there will be a fix.

If you purchased your received after the format was updated to it's current specification, I'd think Denon would be on the hook to offer you a fix if they advertised it as DD+ capable. Receivers purchased earlier than that may not have the hardware or networking capabilities required to update to the current standard, so those users might have to upgrade to a newer AVR if they depend on that format.

The Dolby Digital + algorithm was upgraded for better compatibility with smart phones and tablets, as these make up a very large share of the streaming content users. Dolby gave their licensees 18 months notice so they would have adequate time to integrate this into their product lineups.
Unfortunately a couple of brands namely Denon and Samsung failed to move fast enough and just keep loading the older, outdated Dolby Dolby Digital + algorithm into products. Next certain major content providers such as NetFlix started to encode their streams with the updated Dolby Digital + algorithm and the incompatibility was very apparent. It took Denon almost another 6 months before they took things seriously... By then there was truckloads of complaints and 000s' of Denon AVRs in the distribution channels with outdated/incompatible DSP Dolby Digital + code. Denon did repond with some firmware updates but it took several months for these to become available and validated...

Just my $0.02..
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post #529 of 529 Unread Today, 04:40 PM
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More FUD from M Code He has a bone to pick with Samsung and Denon for some reason. Who had a problem with Netflix and DD+? Off the top of my head...

Denon, Samsung, Apple, Roku, Amazon, Google, Sony, Sonos, Intel, More that I cant think of.

M Code would have you believe its just the two companies he doesnt like, but the fact is Netflix released a version of DD+ that broke in one fashion or another most devices in the industry. Meanwhile these same devices had no issue with Amazon, Vudu and other DD+ implementations.

There are to this day still problems with Roku and Sony. Where is the criticism of them?
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