Anything New At CEDIA With Trinnov Equalization System? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 6 Old 10-13-2013, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
mraub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Champaign, IL
Posts: 855
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Or at least anything in the affordable range. I'm still using a Sherwood R-972, but would prefer something more up to date and with fewer glitches.

For the life of me I cannot figure why some participant in the highly competitive AVR market would not adopt what many think is the best speaker optimization system around. Maybe Trinnov wants too much in licensing fees or maybe it is too difficult to implement with the processors most AVR manufacturers use. Whatever the problem, the free enterprise system doesn't seem to be working too well in making this feature easily available.

MIKE

For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
--H. L. Mencken
mraub is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 6 Old 11-19-2013, 09:13 AM
Senior Member
 
Curt_Trinnov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Huntington Beach, Ca
Posts: 291
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by mraub View Post

Or at least anything in the affordable range. I'm still using a Sherwood R-972, but would prefer something more up to date and with fewer glitches.

For the life of me I cannot figure why some participant in the highly competitive AVR market would not adopt what many think is the best speaker optimization system around. Maybe Trinnov wants too much in licensing fees or maybe it is too difficult to implement with the processors most AVR manufacturers use. Whatever the problem, the free enterprise system doesn't seem to be working too well in making this feature easily available.

 

Thanks for the interest and support.  Here is some telling insight as to  the issues involved in bringing Trinnov to a new product.  Read the few previous posts, including Steve's Amir quote.

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1313052/the-official-theta-thread/6090#post_23968594 

 

To have Trinnov integrated again in a new product will take the market asking for it.  It is a huge investment for both Trinnov and the licensee to take on, something that it will only happen because of market demand or the need for market differentiation.  

 

Cheers,


___________
Curt Hoyt
3D Audio Consultant

Trinnov Audio
USA

Curt_Trinnov is offline  
post #3 of 6 Old 11-19-2013, 10:37 AM
AVS Special Member
 
M Code's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Joshua Tree, CA
Posts: 9,779
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 108
Unfortunately...
The demand for higher end AVRs (SRP > $1599) has decreased dramatically... 😡
The enginering resource investments of manpower, time & $ are too costly...
Besides the major AVR brands are all losing $ except Yamaha..

Perhaps if Trinnov can lighten the MIPs load while working with a major DSP maker they can come up with a version that is more feasible & easier for the AVR brand to integrate..


Just my $0.05... 👍😉
M Code is online now  
post #4 of 6 Old 11-19-2013, 11:45 AM
Senior Member
 
Curt_Trinnov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Huntington Beach, Ca
Posts: 291
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

Unfortunately...
The demand for higher end AVRs (SRP > $1599) has decreased dramatically... 😡
The enginering resource investments of manpower, time & $ are too costly...
Besides the major AVR brands are all losing $ except Yamaha..

Perhaps if Trinnov can lighten the MIPs load while working with a major DSP maker they can come up with a version that is more feasible & easier for the AVR brand to integrate..


Just my $0.05... 👍😉

DSP load is not the issue, as Trinnov did that with Sherwood.  The issue is integration complexity (cost) vs demand.  As an example, customers demanded HD audio because there was an even bigger advertising budget promoting it.  Manufactures responded.  

 

The key here is that there isn't the big advertising budget to promote Trinnov, so the demand is really limited to those who have experienced or researched it.  We can consider that now that a pool of users have used Trinnov and love it- is that enough for a big manufacturer to make it happen? Consider the proposition: the manufacturer would have the cost of both integrating and promoting.  Whereas, with DD, DTS, SRS, and other technologies, they just have the burden of integration.  And when it comes to promoting- how does one easily describe the benefit- when the wow moment doesn't really come until you are listening and it dawns on you- "hey, I'm no longer listening to speakers, this is very cool."

 

So, if your a Trinnov user, spread the word.  If it goes viral, the manufactures will come and make it!

 

Cheers,


___________
Curt Hoyt
3D Audio Consultant

Trinnov Audio
USA

Curt_Trinnov is offline  
post #5 of 6 Old 11-19-2013, 02:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
M Code's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Joshua Tree, CA
Posts: 9,779
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt_Trinnov View Post

DSP load is not the issue, as Trinnov did that with Sherwood.  The issue is integration complexity (cost) vs demand.  As an example, customers demanded HD audio because there was an even bigger advertising budget promoting it.  Manufactures responded.  

The key here is that there isn't the big advertising budget to promote Trinnov, so the demand is really limited to those who have experienced or researched it.  We can consider that now that a pool of users have used Trinnov and love it- is that enough for a big manufacturer to make it happen? Consider the proposition: the manufacturer would have the cost of both integrating and promoting.  Whereas, with DD, DTS, SRS, and other technologies, they just have the burden of integration.  And when it comes to promoting- how does one easily describe the benefit- when the wow moment doesn't really come until you are listening and it dawns on you- "hey, I'm no longer listening to speakers, this is very cool."

So, if your a Trinnov user, spread the word.  If it goes viral, the manufactures will come and make it!

Cheers,

Curt..
My point about MIPs was to downsize the app, keep the crucial factors but delete some of the frills as in the Pro version....
We did quite abit of S/W development (code, debugging and validation) with TI & Dolby for Dolby Volume. The Dolby team (from Lake Research) in SF simplified certain functions while limiting some of the tweaky options, this than made the system integration of DSP and AVR CPU easier..
As you know well, the AVR brands are pushing the development timelines extremely hard to shorten these, as to deliver the finished AVR product sooner to the market ...


Just my $0.05... 👍😉
M Code is online now  
post #6 of 6 Old 11-19-2013, 02:26 PM
Senior Member
 
Curt_Trinnov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Huntington Beach, Ca
Posts: 291
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post


Curt..
My point about MIPs was to downsize the app, keep the crucial factors but delete some of the frills as in the Pro version....
We did quite abit of S/W development (code, debugging and validation) with TI & Dolby for Dolby Volume. The Dolby team (from Lake Research) in SF simplified certain functions while limiting some of the tweaky options, this than made the system integration of DSP and AVR CPU easier..
As you know well, the AVR brands are pushing the development timelines extremely hard to shorten these, as to deliver the finished AVR product sooner to the market ...


Just my $0.05... 👍😉

Thanks for your enthusiasm and interest.  Well appreciated!

 

Again, already done, we did exactly that, "downsize the app, keep the crucial factors but delete some of the frills."  We fit Trinnov on one DSP, years ago now, before Dolby Volume came out. The Trinnov DSP app for TI PAF is already scale-able to MIPS and channel count.   I'm now repeating myself to be specific: the issue is that integrating Trinnov is a disruption to to typical manufacturer integration:  the need for 4 channels of analog in for mic in," channel in to channel out" relationship lost, etc.    Something we can discuss in detail sometime... 

 

Trinnov will come again to a DSP based system- eventually.  Just a matter of when; currently it's still off in the distance.


___________
Curt Hoyt
3D Audio Consultant

Trinnov Audio
USA

Curt_Trinnov is offline  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Tags
Sherwood Newcastle R 972

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off