When using Audyssey do you use Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
View Poll Results: When using Audyssey do you use Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume?
Audyssey with Dynamic EQ off. 39 25.49%
Audyssey with Dynamic EQ on with Dynamic Volume off. 78 50.98%
Audyssey with Dynamic EQ on with Dynamic Volume on. 23 15.03%
Audyssey with Dynamic EQ on with Dynamic Volume on or off varies with the source. 13 8.50%
Voters: 153. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1 of 44 Old 10-15-2013, 07:17 AM - Thread Starter
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I have been using Audyssey with Dynamic EQ off with my 4311. But after watching football on Fox over the weekend with the volume differences during commercials I decided to try it. I found D EQ with D Volume (Day) enabled helped with the volume issues. But with music I disabled D Volume as I felt it wasn't needed. Being new to using D EQ and D Volume I found that the volume level setting differences were quite higher than without. So I thought I would start my first poll to see if others used D EQ with or without D Volume. If those taking the poll could post what their thoughts are on D EQ and D Volume that would be great smile.gif.

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post #2 of 44 Old 10-15-2013, 07:23 AM
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I use DEQ without Audyssey. It's a great functionality to main perceived loudness at all volumes. Don't use Dynamic Volume.

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post #3 of 44 Old 10-15-2013, 07:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

I use DEQ without Audyssey. It's a great functionality to main perceived loudness at all volumes. Don't use Dynamic Volume.

I thought you had to have Audyssey on to use D EQ?

Bill

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post #4 of 44 Old 10-15-2013, 07:43 AM
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I have an AVR-X4000 and I don't use either Dynamic EQ or Dynamic Volume:
- the former because I don't like how it boosts surround levels and seems to bloat* bass; and
- the latter because I don't have concerns about volume swings (I'm either watching a movie or listening to music).

(*It's not really bloated but - to my ears, and for lack of a better way to describe it - it sounds unnaturally weighted.)
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post #5 of 44 Old 10-15-2013, 08:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

I have an AVR-X4000 and I don't use either Dynamic EQ or Dynamic Volume:
- the former because I don't like how it boosts surround levels and seems to bloat* bass; and
- the latter because I don't have concerns about volume swings (I'm either watching a movie or listening to music).

(*It's not really bloated but - to my ears, and for lack of a better way to describe it - it sounds unnaturally weighted.)

eljay,

Thanks for your thoughts smile.gif. I'm listening to Lyle Lovett's Joshua Judges Ruth DTS CD and I tried listening with D EQ on and off. I have to agree with you in that bass levels are somewhat enhanced. If you wouldn't mind could you select the "Audyssey with Dynamic EQ off" poll selection. I'm going to have to give this some thought as to if using D EQ is the way to go. How does one change their poll choice if they change their mind?

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post #6 of 44 Old 10-15-2013, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
If you wouldn't mind could you select the "Audyssey with Dynamic EQ off" poll selection.
I'll do that when I get home this evening, as I can't select an option here at work. (The way the web servers have been set up, some of the scripting on this site - and on other sites - is disabled. frown.gif )

-- Edit --
I've cast my vote. smile.gif
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post #7 of 44 Old 10-15-2013, 08:16 AM
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I thought you had to have Audyssey on to use D EQ?

You are right; but I have CA Azur 751R receiver, which allows using DEQ without audyssey. And that's a fantastic provision on CA.

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post #8 of 44 Old 10-15-2013, 08:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

I'll do that when I get home this evening, as I can't select an option here at work.

(The way the web servers have been set up, some of the scripting on this site - and on other sites - is disabled.)

Thanks smile.gif.

Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

You are right; but I have CA Azur 751R receiver, which allows using DEQ without audyssey. And that's a fantastic provision on CA.

That's a nice option on the CA smile.gif.

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post #9 of 44 Old 10-15-2013, 08:27 AM
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... I have CA Azur 751R receiver, which allows using DEQ without audyssey.
Interesting. According to pg. 20 of the owner's manual (PDF):
- if you don't run the three-position Audyssey 2EQ - if you run just the one-position Audyssey Autosetup - you can select Dynamic EQ anyway; but
- if you do run the three-position Audyssey 2EQ, it must be 'ON' in order to select Dynamic EQ.
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post #10 of 44 Old 10-15-2013, 08:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

Interesting. According to pg. 20 of the owner's manual (PDF):
- if you don't run the three-position Audyssey 2EQ - if you run just the one-position Audyssey Autosetup - you can select Dynamic EQ anyway; but
- if you do run the three-position Audyssey 2EQ, it must be 'ON' in order to select Dynamic EQ.

That is interesting. If Dynamic EQ works in tandem with MultEQ then is using D EQ without MultEQ like using a basic loudness setting? In other words does D EQ boost all frequencies at the same levels?

Bill

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post #11 of 44 Old 10-15-2013, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Interesting. According to pg. 20 of the owner's manual (PDF):
- if you don't run the three-position Audyssey 2EQ - if you run just the one-position Audyssey Autosetup - you can select Dynamic EQ anyway; but
- if you do run the three-position Audyssey 2EQ, it must be 'ON' in order to select Dynamic EQ.

Forget about what the manual says; DEQ works without even touching audyssey. I don't use audyssey anyway. Just level match the speakers, set distances, and engage DEQ. Fantatstic performance!!!

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post #12 of 44 Old 10-15-2013, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
If Dynamic EQ works in tandem with MultEQ then is using D EQ without MultEQ like using a basic loudness setting?

Yes; you can call it the good old Loudness button.
Quote:
In other words does D EQ boost all frequencies at the same levels?

I think so. I once checked it in REW. It does pick up low quite a lot when DEQ is engaged sort of like a house curve; but I only checked it on 15-150Hz sweep. It wasn't a full range sweep.

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post #13 of 44 Old 10-15-2013, 03:07 PM
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I only just started using DEQ yesterday: I picked up an Onkyo 818 just over a week ago and find that BluRay sound is very good using Audyssey (after an 8 point calibration) along with an external power amp to drive my MK150 series speakers.

However I find that lower level TV listening is a bit 'thin' sounding, so the lowest setting, which seems to be 'ON' and the 15dB option (from 0/5/10/15dB choices) just adds a small amount of 'warmth' to the sound. However this is just using -25dB below reference level. When watching films/concerts on my projector I tend to listen at -10dB and DEQ on spoils the sound IMHO, but since I tend to use a THX setting for BluRay this automatically turns off DEQ for me,so a neat solution to get the sound I want at the levels I want to listen at.

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post #14 of 44 Old 10-15-2013, 04:20 PM
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Being in a condo I use the Dynamic Eq all the time. Dynamic volume for TV watching, however I try not to use it when watching blu-rays. However for late night viewing dynamic volume is nice to have. I also use dynamic volume to boost soundtracks that have low dialog mixes.
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post #15 of 44 Old 10-16-2013, 12:36 AM
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I tend to use Dynamic EQ with movies a lot more than music. With music I feel that with Dynamic EQ the bass feels bloated.
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post #16 of 44 Old 10-20-2013, 07:51 PM
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Yup, both on. I don't know why, but dynamic volume massively increases dynamics/detail of everything with my current speaker, it is so awesome.
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post #17 of 44 Old 10-20-2013, 09:09 PM
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D volume actually decreases dynamics. A little compression can sound exciting and will pull low level details forward
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post #18 of 44 Old 10-20-2013, 10:01 PM
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I'd leave both Off generally.

 

I believe Dynamic EQ is based on the Fletcher–Munson curves of loudness and frequency sensitivity of human hearing and calibrated against the AVRs 0db Reference Level.  So if your source input is too loud and you turn down the level on your AVR, say to -30db, there'll be too much (mainly Bass) compensation applied.  You'll notice with DVDs over HDMI cable (digital audio input) you have to bring your AVR to -10db, -5db or even higher. This is because DVDs are calibrated to a standard reference level.  Audio CDs and digital downloads don't have any universally-agreed reference level and all try be be louder than their competition, thereby overloading the calibration and causing your sound to be (primarily) Bass heavy, muddy and unclear.

 

You can use one trick to calibrate your audio: play the DVD and CD of the same recording and adjust the source output of the CD system so both are at a similar loudness.  That way you have a sort of reference going forwards, and if an audio file is louder or softer than another, adjust the source levels, not the AVR level.  Make the change in Input Settings, Source Level.

 

The other solution, since CDs vary in loudness, is to use MediaMonkey as your playback source and set it's Volume Leveling to 85db.  You might be shocked to see many recordings are on average more than 13db louder than they should be - what a waste of the potential dynamic range digital recordings can offer!

 

Or turn On Dynamic EQ only for DVDs.

 

Re the Dynamic Vol settings, it reduces the differences between the loudest and softest sounds.  Great if you're watching an action movie late at night and don't want that bomb blast to wake the rest of your family or your neighbors   I even use it with background music for when I'm having a dinner party.  Turn it Off of course when you want the full dynamic range of your music and movies to come through.

 

Cheers

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post #19 of 44 Old 10-20-2013, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coli View Post

Yup, both on. I don't know why, but dynamic volume massively increases dynamics/detail of everything with my current speaker, it is so awesome.
nope tongue.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHAz View Post

D volume actually decreases dynamics. A little compression can sound exciting and will pull low level details forward
yup wink.gif

i used dynamic eq for pretty much everything. dynamic volume gets turned on when extreme low level listening is required...mostly really late at night.

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post #20 of 44 Old 11-19-2013, 08:25 AM
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I was getting awful results with DEQ at first. It made everything boomy and harsh and voice unintelligible. Then, when I got everything set up properly - multiple subs, MultiEQ more focused at the MLP, speakers on stands, sub level offset at 0db, and some sound treatment. Now DEQ sounds spectacular for movies and music. I think if there are other problems it can make things worse, but once the problems are solved it can make things great.

I'm not using dynamic volume, but I think I will make the presets select it for those times when I want to dial back the dynamics (late at night or not in the mood for high dynamics). Not my default setting, though, and never for music.
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post #21 of 44 Old 02-10-2016, 01:34 AM
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Audyssey Dynamic EQ

I have set up 3 systems with proper Audyssey setup and Dynamic EQ ALWAYS makes the sound boomy, bloated, and with unintelligible dialog. Dynamic EQ off always sounds cleaner, more focused, and more detailed. To me it sounds worse than the older "loudness" control on many receivers and/or preamplifiers. Maybe its just me. I admit that none of the rooms I set up had absorption panels or acoustic treatment.
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post #22 of 44 Old 02-10-2016, 08:00 PM
 
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Both OFF, always OFF.

Those two things are Sound Destroyer. ...Not natural.

Hey, that's my two
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post #23 of 44 Old 02-11-2016, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Both OFF, always OFF.

Those two things are Sound Destroyer. ...Not natural.

Hey, that's my two
I think people who dismiss "those two things" are usually ignorant to what they think they actually do to the sound. I'm all in favor of Dynamic EQ as no one I know listens to 0db reference level. I listen at -15db or -10db at most and it brings out what I'd be missing from not listening at 0db. Dynamic volume on the other hand is the real no no in daily listening, unless you want clarity at a low volume level such as with the kids sleeping.

Dynamic EQ is supposed to help the sound be presented as the best it could be. We can argue reference vs. preference here however, for a long time.
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post #24 of 44 Old 02-11-2016, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCoolDoc View Post
I think people who dismiss "those two things" are usually ignorant to what they think they actually do to the sound. I'm all in favor of Dynamic EQ as no one I know listens to 0db reference level. I listen at -15db or -10db at most and it brings out what I'd be missing from not listening at 0db. Dynamic volume on the other hand is the real no no in daily listening, unless you want clarity at a low volume level such as with the kids sleeping.

Dynamic EQ is supposed to help the sound be presented as the best it could be. We can argue reference vs. preference here however, for a long time.
Even when I watch a movie at -10 it is obvious how much dynamic EQ exaggerates the LFE and Surround channels to levels way beyond what it should. I did a lot of A-B listening to parts of films I know very well such as storming the beach in Saving Private Ryan, the asteroid chase in Star Wars Ep 2 Attack of the Clones, the bank robbery opening scene in The Dark Knight, The rescue of Morpheus in The Matrix, the club scene from John Wick, and the Korean club scene in Collateral. In every instance the bass was exaggerated, bloated, and didn't have the distinction and control it should have. It sounded wild and out of control even at the -15 setting which is supposed to be the lowest amount of EQ. The surrounds were overly exaggerated to the point that it drowned out the front presence in some areas. Now maybe if I was watching at even lower volume levels it would have worked out differently but in my experience it simply doesn't have the crisp and precise sound I am used to. I gave it a solid try and when I turned it off it was a real eye opener to see the detail that I was missing. Your experience may differ or you may prefer a heavily weighted bass response. Your equipment may differ widely from what I use as well. If you like it by all means use it, but I know what it does and it simply doesn't work for me. It doesn't bring out anything, in fact I'd say it hides a lot of details behind overpowering bass and surrounds that sound too hot.
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post #25 of 44 Old 02-11-2016, 06:30 PM
 
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Quote:
I think people who dismiss "those two things" are usually ignorant to what they think they actually do to the sound. I'm all in favor of Dynamic EQ as no one I know listens to 0db reference level. I listen at -15db or -10db at most and it brings out what I'd be missing from not listening at 0db. Dynamic volume on the other hand is the real no no in daily listening, unless you want clarity at a low volume level such as with the kids sleeping.

Dynamic EQ is supposed to help the sound be presented as the best it could be. We can argue reference vs. preference here however, for a long time.
It's a poll asking us if we use them when Audyssey is engaged. I participated in the poll. And I briefly commented with two words on what it does to my sound from my ears @ home. I know what it supposed to do, so I'm not ignorant of that. I don't think about what they supposed to do, I just experimented extensively and came to my own calculated observation.

I consider myself well educated in what my ears tell me from Audyssey DEQ and DV. ...Scientifically and in real life experience.
I made a wise choice according to my listening experience...for me this is far of being ignorant.

It's ok.
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post #26 of 44 Old 02-12-2016, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockydj View Post
I tend to use Dynamic EQ with movies a lot more than music. With music I feel that with Dynamic EQ the bass feels bloated.

Same for me


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post #27 of 44 Old 02-14-2016, 11:42 PM
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When Audyssey dEQ and dVOL

Interesting in that the poll shows less than 10% of us have selected the option "depends on the source" when it comes to Audyssey's Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume.

I, too, am in the 'depends' group. Mostly. Because there are variations in recording quality. For movies off DVD or BlueRay, dEQ is always On. dVOL? Off (unless it's late at night).

One CAN get it right (and use dEQ all the time), but it means careful setting up of your non DVD/BlueRay players.

First the definitions.

dVOL - Dynamic Volume is a Leave It Alone, Reduce It Slightly, or Reduce It Heavily setting to the loudness variations of a (movie) source. You could use this with music too (<gulp> go the audiophiles)! The key is in understanding what Audyssey dVOL is is doing. This is VERY handy when you are watching a movie with soft dialog and very loud explosions and (a) it is the middle of the night or (b) you have very thin walls and want to keep your neighbors happy.

dEQ - Dynamic EQ is related to the fact that our ears are sensitive to bass, mid and treble sounds differently depending on how loud they are. If played at 0dBFS (maximum loudness where peaks hit 100+ dB) one will hear the bass mid and treble sounds correctly of a properly engineered recording. Great for a movie night. But if you play the whole thing at -20dBFS (at 80dB) bass will appear to be 'missing'. Dynamic Loudness being On will then correct for that.

However it can cause problems. If the INPUT loudness from your source into your AVR is too high it will mess with this, for example if your AVR is set to -20dBFS and the room sound is not at 80dB but at 100dB. So if you have to turn it down to -40dBFS to get 80dB loudness in the room, dEQ will be adding too much Bass.

The problem is not Audyssey or with Dynamic Loudness! Fix your source (usually an analogue source that is set to too high output).

Turn the output down not at the AVR but on your CD, DVD, BlueRay, laptop, PC or media player device.

How can one determine the correct setting?

You can use a DVD (or BlueRay) pop music disc as a guide since they are engineered to SMPTE standards which Audyssey adheres to. Also it must be connected to your AVR via a raw digital (coax, TosLink or HDMI) connection, not analogue.

Play the video disc. Then play your other source and (raise or) reduce it's output volume to match. You will now have a roughtly correctly setup analogue input source (but remember -variations of up to 20dB can exist in audio CDs and YouTube files). If it's too loud or too soft - leave your AVR at -20 (80dB) or -30 (70dB) that you want to be listening at and - adjust the level control of the source player. A cheap analogue dB meter will be really useful for this - set it to C weighting and Slow response.

The first thing after you get your Audyssey set up is to play a DVD or BlueRay disc through a digital not analogue input, not anything else. Bass will be right and tight. Not missing or too much. Yet we have personal preferences: feel free to increase or decrease the level on your sub a TINY bit, no more. But that is the only thing you should do. And only the once (or if you realise later you changed it just a little to much or not enough). Not every time. Thereafter if the bass is wrong, it's the recording itself (some have too much, others too little bass) or your source levels, not Audyssey or dEQ you should be looking at.

Enjoy!
skris88

Last edited by skris88; 02-14-2016 at 11:48 PM.
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post #28 of 44 Old 02-14-2016, 11:55 PM
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Even when I watch a movie at -10 it is obvious how much dynamic EQ exaggerates the LFE and Surround channels to levels way beyond what it should. I did a lot of A-B listening to parts of films I know very well such as storming the beach in Saving Private Ryan, the asteroid chase in Star Wars Ep 2 Attack of the Clones, the bank robbery opening scene in The Dark Knight, The rescue of Morpheus in The Matrix, the club scene from John Wick, and the Korean club scene in Collateral. In every instance the bass was exaggerated, bloated, and didn't have the distinction and control it should have. It sounded wild and out of control even at the -15 setting which is supposed to be the lowest amount of EQ. The surrounds were overly exaggerated to the point that it drowned out the front presence in some areas. Now maybe if I was watching at even lower volume levels it would have worked out differently but in my experience it simply doesn't have the crisp and precise sound I am used to. I gave it a solid try and when I turned it off it was a real eye opener to see the detail that I was missing. Your experience may differ or you may prefer a heavily weighted bass response. Your equipment may differ widely from what I use as well. If you like it by all means use it, but I know what it does and it simply doesn't work for me. It doesn't bring out anything, in fact I'd say it hides a lot of details behind overpowering bass and surrounds that sound too hot.
Are these movies off a DVD or BlueRay player with a raw digital audio connection (eg. coax, TosLink or HDMI), or analogue?

Thanks!
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post #29 of 44 Old 02-15-2016, 07:37 AM
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Are these movies off a DVD or BlueRay player with a raw digital audio connection (eg. coax, TosLink or HDMI), or analogue?

Thanks!

HDMI from a Panasonic player bdt330 playing the blu-Ray. The same can be heard from my .mkv files on a plex server playing back from a PC via wasapi pass trough to bitstream.

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HDMI from a Panasonic player bdt330 playing the blu-Ray. The same can be heard from my .mkv files on a plex server playing back from a PC via wasapi pass trough to bitstream.
Interesting. And unusual (that you are not getting a satisfactory sound). And I expect you set up your Audyssey calibration at multiple seating positions.

Can you check your sub level as indicated within the Audyssey settings? Does it show -12dB by any chance. That is it's limit (so I read).

If your sub's output is too high Audyssey cannot reduce it to any lower, you will have to reduce the level control on the sub itself. I had to tweak this so my Audyssey's sub setting was within a -6dB and +6dB range.

Please try and let us know.

Hope this helps!
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