The "Official" Sherbourn PA 7-350 Amp Discussion Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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Old 11-04-2013, 10:48 AM
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Impertore. Look up member Archaea. He did a meet with the Pendragons and 228 Noesis. Noesis owners prefer theirs to even the likes of a 100k pair of Wilson's. I watched Oblivion on a 7 channel Quintuple and triple 8 system. Amazing sound, B E A utiful!!! Detail everything. But the kicker for me was at -5 volume there was not once a touch of harshness. I HATE harshness in the high end of the dynamic range. And Oblivion has great dynamic range! I have only read the Noesis is even better so...

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Old 11-12-2013, 08:06 AM
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Hello all, I recently purchased this amp and installed it after I had an electrician run a single line 20a dedicated outlet for it. Once installed I too encounter a hum in the speakers. It is quite noticeable. (I can hear it from my seating position approximately 12 feet away.) I contacted Sherbourn / Emotiva and was advised to bridge the grounds from the new 20a outlet to the 15a outlet that powers the rest of my system. Here is the email from them:

1st Reply - The first thing to try is grounding both of the outlets together. The outlet that is feeding the equipment stack and the outlet that is feeding the amp. You do this by taking a piece of 16 ga. or heavier wire and pumping from 1 outlet screw plate over to the other. Back the screws in the wall plate out a little, then strip a little insulation off both ends of the wire and rap one end each around each screw, then tighten screws. The screws actually goes into the outlet to earth ground. This will eliminate any potential ground difference between the 2 circuits. If this doesn't help plug all of your equipment into the same 20 amp outlet.
My Reply - Thanks, I will give that a try. Question.... don't all the grounds meet in the electrical panel and one single ground goes to the grounding rod? Is it that the connected grounding happens closer to the amp?
2nd Reply - The earth ground (solid necked copper wire) coming into the panel should be all commonly bonded on a bus bar. But the problem maybe that the wire runs are different lengths for the 2 outlets and have a difference of potential. Or the outlet that was existing may run to different rooms and picking up noise from another outlet. Or the original outlet has "dropped" its earth ground. Or if it is a old home it may have never had a earth ground run, and someone may have used the neutral as the earth ground. In any of these instances jumping the ground over as I stated should help.

Now, I'm no electrician but the answer here appears to be ADDING a ground loop into the system. Could this be right?

Also, I'm thinking of moving all the equipment to the new 20amp circuit I added. Does anyone know how this could be done without potentially harming my equipment? I don't want to simply add a 20amp power strip and possibly have a surge that damages my other equipment. (I currently have an APC H15 power conditioner)

Again, I'm no electrician and thinking about all this is making my head spin!

On another note, my RCA connectors are brand new from Emotiva and the run is only 6 feet. But from what I'm reading here, this could also be the problem and switching to XLRs could be the solution. Where can I get decent XLR cables for a decent price. Are the monoprice $5 XLRs worthy. I'm cheap but not that cheap! biggrin.gif
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Old 11-12-2013, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tripppsta View Post

Hello all, I recently purchased this amp and installed it after I had an electrician run a single line 20a dedicated outlet for it. Once installed I too encounter a hum in the speakers. It is quite noticeable. (I can hear it from my seating position approximately 12 feet away.) I contacted Sherbourn / Emotiva and was advised to bridge the grounds from the new 20a outlet to the 15a outlet that powers the rest of my system. Here is the email from them:

1st Reply - The first thing to try is grounding both of the outlets together. The outlet that is feeding the equipment stack and the outlet that is feeding the amp. You do this by taking a piece of 16 ga. or heavier wire and pumping from 1 outlet screw plate over to the other. Back the screws in the wall plate out a little, then strip a little insulation off both ends of the wire and rap one end each around each screw, then tighten screws. The screws actually goes into the outlet to earth ground. This will eliminate any potential ground difference between the 2 circuits. If this doesn't help plug all of your equipment into the same 20 amp outlet.
My Reply - Thanks, I will give that a try. Question.... don't all the grounds meet in the electrical panel and one single ground goes to the grounding rod? Is it that the connected grounding happens closer to the amp?
2nd Reply - The earth ground (solid necked copper wire) coming into the panel should be all commonly bonded on a bus bar. But the problem maybe that the wire runs are different lengths for the 2 outlets and have a difference of potential. Or the outlet that was existing may run to different rooms and picking up noise from another outlet. Or the original outlet has "dropped" its earth ground. Or if it is a old home it may have never had a earth ground run, and someone may have used the neutral as the earth ground. In any of these instances jumping the ground over as I stated should help.

Now, I'm no electrician but the answers seem to make sense and the possible solution is cheap so I'm off to Home Depot for the wire. Luckily, my two outlets are right next to each other so snaking this wire between the two isn't a problem. I will report back once done.

On another note, my RCA connectors are brand new from Emotiva and the run is only 6 feet. But from what I'm reading here, this could also be the problem and switching to XLRs could be the solution. Where can I get decent XLR cables for a decent price. Are the monoprice $5 XLRs worthy. I'm cheap but not that cheap! biggrin.gif

I have the RCA to RCA since I have a Denon 3313. A future upgrade will be an Integra 80.3 and I will then use XLR. I happen to have 9 XLR 6 footers from better cables. Got them from a good friend.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0013HRKB6/ref=pd_aw_sims_3?pi=SS115

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Old 11-12-2013, 11:02 AM
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I have a loose binding post. Like the nut just inside the back wall is loose. Not a big deal cause I can just use the other two available

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Old 11-12-2013, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Oybub1952 View Post

Nice room... Has anybody tried bi - wire or bi - amping with the Sherbourn ?

Yes, i bi-wired my Polks LRC and then bi-amped the LR, needed the power on the LSiM707's' awesome now, effortless sound at 95db+
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Old 11-12-2013, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by BossHoggSocal View Post

That's what I did. Even though it may not make a difference, I figure at $5 each x5... $25 isn't too much to spend to use the XLRs. If you got them might as well use them for that price. I have pro XLRs from guitar center and the monoprice ones stand up to them.

Me too and i have ZERO hum or noise at the speakers on a shared 20 amp circuit. We use a lot of pro XLR at work and the Monoprice are right in there as far as quality.smile.gif
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Old 11-12-2013, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by BossHoggSocal View Post

From what I've heard bi amping with passive crossovers is a waste unless you really need the extra power. If your speakers are rated at 150 watts rms and the amp is 350, I don't see why you'd need any more. Believe me ive been pondering doing it since I have 2 unused channels on my 7-350. I'll just save money on speaker wire and have the 2 extra channels on standby in case one of the amps channels stops working ill have some backups.

Boss, try it with some inexpensive wire if your fronts allow it; i'll bet you hear the difference, you won't be out any money if you have a spool of 18 gauge wire around...and you will only be pushing each channel half as hard and have all the headroom in the world...
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Old 11-12-2013, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by DPMurphy View Post

Boss, try it with some inexpensive wire if your fronts allow it; i'll bet you hear the difference, you won't be out any money if you have a spool of 18 gauge wire around...and you will only be pushing each channel half as hard and have all the headroom in the world...

I guess I will try it to hear.... as for getting the inputs to the amp, I currently use all balanced XLR outputs and my processor doesn't have an option to make the surround back outputs to bi-amp fronts. Should I buy XLR splitters or just use RCA outputs from my processor? My processors balanced and unbalanced outputs are all on at the same time.
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:17 AM
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I have not grounded the two outlets together.... yet. I moved all my equipment into the 20amp circuit and still have the hum. I just ordered XLR cables from Monoprice. We'll see what I get then.

FYI - I'm running a Marantz AV7701 pre/pro into the Sherbourn (with Emotiva RCA interconnects) to my Aperion Versus Grand 5.1 system with an SVS SB-13 Ultra. Speaker cable is StraightWire Musical.
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Old 11-15-2013, 01:20 AM
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Originally Posted by tripppsta View Post

Hello all, I recently purchased this amp and installed it after I had an electrician run a single line 20a dedicated outlet for it. Once installed I too encounter a hum in the speakers. It is quite noticeable. (I can hear it from my seating position approximately 12 feet away.) I contacted Sherbourn / Emotiva and was advised to bridge the grounds from the new 20a outlet to the 15a outlet that powers the rest of my system. Here is the email from them:

1st Reply - The first thing to try is grounding both of the outlets together. The outlet that is feeding the equipment stack and the outlet that is feeding the amp. You do this by taking a piece of 16 ga. or heavier wire and pumping from 1 outlet screw plate over to the other. Back the screws in the wall plate out a little, then strip a little insulation off both ends of the wire and rap one end each around each screw, then tighten screws. The screws actually goes into the outlet to earth ground. This will eliminate any potential ground difference between the 2 circuits. If this doesn't help plug all of your equipment into the same 20 amp outlet.
My Reply - Thanks, I will give that a try. Question.... don't all the grounds meet in the electrical panel and one single ground goes to the grounding rod? Is it that the connected grounding happens closer to the amp?
2nd Reply - The earth ground (solid necked copper wire) coming into the panel should be all commonly bonded on a bus bar. But the problem maybe that the wire runs are different lengths for the 2 outlets and have a difference of potential. Or the outlet that was existing may run to different rooms and picking up noise from another outlet. Or the original outlet has "dropped" its earth ground. Or if it is a old home it may have never had a earth ground run, and someone may have used the neutral as the earth ground. In any of these instances jumping the ground over as I stated should help.

Now, I'm no electrician but the answer here appears to be ADDING a ground loop into the system. Could this be right?

Also, I'm thinking of moving all the equipment to the new 20amp circuit I added. Does anyone know how this could be done without potentially harming my equipment? I don't want to simply add a 20amp power strip and possibly have a surge that damages my other equipment. (I currently have an APC H15 power conditioner)

Again, I'm no electrician and thinking about all this is making my head spin!

On another note, my RCA connectors are brand new from Emotiva and the run is only 6 feet. But from what I'm reading here, this could also be the problem and switching to XLRs could be the solution. Where can I get decent XLR cables for a decent price. Are the monoprice $5 XLRs worthy. I'm cheap but not that cheap! biggrin.gif

From the sound of it I firmly do not believe that XLR's will solve your problem. First I would unplug everything and put system back together one wire at a time until you figure out what particular hookup is setting off the hum. Try setting the amp up with one speaker wired up only to see if there is hum. Plug amp directly into 20 amp receptacle, not APC. If you cannot locate a source from trying this call the electrician who did the install and explain there is a problem. Hopefully he can stop and look it over. There could be a shorted wire in the panel. Longshot but you never know. You prob either have a ground loop or something else going on. I'm not sure from your explanation that its any interference that a XLR will fix.
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Old 11-15-2013, 01:22 AM
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he simple design and it seems to be plenty sturdy for my intended usebyXwpo

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Old 11-22-2013, 04:37 PM
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Boss, i used inexpensive XLRsplitters from Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-YXM121-Female-Dual-Cable/dp/B000068O59

they seem to work great...

David
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Old 01-02-2014, 07:45 PM
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I figured my little experimentation might prove helpful to someone else so I'll post it here as well. (I posted this basic comment in Gorilla83's home theater thread, but figured it was more applicable here:)



I had some buzzing with my Sherbourn 7-350 and it wasn't too bad so I wasn't too worried about it, but I'm a tinkerer and am always messing with stuff. Whenever I'd unplug or plug in my Monoprice premium RCA cables I'd fear I was going to break one of the RCA jacks because the connectors are so tight. In the course of buying new RCA cables I learned that cables really DO matter for noise inductance. I would never have believed it mattered much myself, but here's my experience.

Being unhappy with the difficult tight connections on the monoprice RCAs. I bought this set of cables from Emotiva when it was on sale for $35, but tried to cancel when I found out the cables fit really tight like the monoprice cables. Ultimately Emotiva failed to cancel my order, even though they said they would when I called and I ended up with the cables a week later. Not that big of a deal, they are nice cables and an okay price.
http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/interconnects/products/mrca-7-1m

So when I tried to cancel the Emotiva's I intended to use this set of Hosa off Amazon, so I bought these.
http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-Cable-CRA802-Channel-Recording/dp/B000068O1S/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

Comparing the three - Monoprice Premium, Emotiva, and Hosa, they all had different noise levels. Who would have thought?

The quality of cable as relates to noise inuctance from best to worst was:

Emotiva > Monoprice > Hosa.

But even the Emotiva had a bit of noise. Probably detectable to my ears from a foot or two. The Monoprice had noise probably detectable to 2-3 feet to my ears. The Hosa cables could be heard from 6-8 feet away to my ears.

So ultimately I bought a Preamp, and am using true monoprice premium XLR cables from XLR out on the pre-amp to XLR in on the Sherbourn. Now the buzzing noise is gone unless my ear is like an inch or two from the speaker.

The best of the RCA cables all had a little buzz from no less than a foot or two away and with the worst set of cables the buzzing was horrible.

With the balanced XLR out on the Onkyo PR-SC5508 and monoprice XLR cables to the Sherbourn 7-350 XLR in I now have now have no distinguishable noise!

BUTTTTTTTTTTT, my Onkyo pre-amp can't calibrate Audyssey or AVR test tones to 75dB in my room because the amp's unmanageable gain setting of 29dB is too hot for the pre-amps voltage output and the minimum -12 channel trim is actually still like 83dB in my room at the listening position. This trim issue was not a problem with my previous Onkyo TX-NR1007 and the RCA outs, as it calibrated my speakers to about -9 or -10dB trim levels.

I give up. I can't win for losing.
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Old 01-02-2014, 08:13 PM
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Remember what N8 was saying though, just calibrate everything back to 85db and set reference level offset to 10. Of course a little extra on the sub, perhaps 90db. Ot get the in line things that cut the gain right?

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Old 01-02-2014, 10:13 PM
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Yeah I've been doing the offset reference lately. -10 is my zero.

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Old 01-02-2014, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Yeah I've been doing the offset reference lately. -10 is my zero.

Ok, do you bump sub trim? Can't remember.

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Old 01-02-2014, 10:29 PM
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I just put everything at 85dB. I always bump sub volume from there 4-6 dB at minimum.

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Old 01-03-2014, 01:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post


BUTTTTTTTTTTT, my Onkyo pre-amp can't calibrate Audyssey or AVR test tones to 75dB in my room because the amp's unmanageable gain setting of 29dB is too hot for the pre-amps voltage output and the minimum -12 channel trim is actually still like 83dB in my room at the listening position. This trim issue was not a problem with my previous Onkyo TX-NR1007 and the RCA outs, as it calibrated my speakers to about -9 or -10dB trim levels.

I give up. I can't win for losing.

I'm not sure I remember right but I recall the Emotiva's gain at 29db. I thought this Sherbourn was7 or 8 db lower? Possibly I think 21 or 23db?
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Old 01-03-2014, 07:01 AM
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I came from a emotiva xpa-3 and the 7-350 gain seems similar on my tx-nr1007.

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Old 01-03-2014, 09:53 AM
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I'm not sure I remember right but I recall the Emotiva's gain at 29db. I thought this Sherbourn was7 or 8 db lower? Possibly I think 21 or 23db?

Gen 1 Emo's are 32dB gain, their new Gen2's are 29dB along with the Sherbourn which is the same biggrin.gif

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Old 01-03-2014, 10:13 AM
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Just curious, have any of you tried the Sherbourn processor as well? It seems like a cheap price for good quality and XLR's.

I would be coming from a Denon 3313. I also use a mini dsp to eq my Submersives

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Old 01-03-2014, 12:58 PM
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Gen 1 Emo's are 32dB gain, their new Gen2's are 29dB along with the Sherbourn which is the same biggrin.gif

Ok I wasn't sure and didn't feel like looking it up. I do remember having a conversation with Nick over at Emotiva and him telling me the gain was lower on the Sherbourn and not as high as the 29db of the Emo which I also own. Does anyone have a link for us with this info. Sherbourn site took it down a while back after they sold all of them. I can tell you guys this. I prefer the Sherbourn PA 7 x 350 to the Emo's bc of that reason. I find that home theater is much more enjoyable and also gratifying at lower volume levels with the supposed lower gain of the Sherbourn. The transient special effect passages passed through to the surrounds and front heights is on a different level for me. Even when volume is set lower when family is sleeping the surround sounds come through in spades and make it an engrossing experience. Where as the Emotiva is louder at the same volume levels and when the surrounds go off at night it gets too loud and usually wakes my wife up. Much more in your face brute force. I still love my Emo for many other occasions and think they are awesome in their own right. I am lucky enough to own both versions and utilize them to which suites my tastes best.
I also enjoy the Sherbourn more with music that has multiple instruments and many background sounds. Orchestra, classical, blues and jazz, symphonic tracks are outstanding and not so in your face presentation. They are much wider and with pinpoint localization of each separate instrument throughout the track. I almost feel as if I can tell which seat the instrument is at in the performance. For example a live performance from Joe Bonamassa with my eyese closed makes my listening room sound bigger and a wider/grander soundstage with transparent separation and a cohesiveness of all the instruments playing much more pleasing than the louder more in your face Emo. You can calibrate the Emo and play around with settings to get it to sound great also but the Sherbourn PA 7-350 is just more pleasing to my tastes and a more gratifying starting point.
So even though they are essentially identical amps inside as the XPR line there is a slight difference with the chips calibration. I was just about certain the db gain was lower on the Sherbourn bc of this conversation I had with Nick (tech guy) at Emotiva. I could of sworn I also read in the past it was either 19, 21 or 23db gain. I have to call Emotiva for something anyway so I will ask for tech when I do and ask them again. Some external websites put up info about products and they just are not accurate. So I just don't trust any website. I will also look at my Sherbourn Manual to see if it is in there. Which it should be! In the end they are all great amps and happy listening to my fellow AVSforum smart guys!
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Old 01-03-2014, 05:10 PM
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Just curious, have any of you tried the Sherbourn processor as well? It seems like a cheap price for good quality and XLR's.

I would be coming from a Denon 3313. I also use a mini dsp to eq my Submersives

Yes and love it, hot discussion on this thread, most of not all concerns alleviated by page 8 http://www.avsforum.com/t/1476669/official-sherbourn-pt-7030-thread
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Old 01-03-2014, 10:49 PM
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Yes and love it, hot discussion on this thread, most of not all concerns alleviated by page 8 http://www.avsforum.com/t/1476669/official-sherbourn-pt-7030-thread

Yes plus 1 on the Sherbourn PT-7030 with the PA 7-350 combo. Phenomenal sound!
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Old 01-04-2014, 06:32 AM
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Just getting back to this thread. I'm remember reading Andrew Robinson review and there was some confusion to gain. Some said 29 but it tested 34 across the board..Supposedly it was an early production model. But personally I don't put much faith there..I will look up review and post link when I get home. ( mini vacation ) Truthfully don't know much and I did ask Keith on Emo forum and got nothing.. I looked up gain also but still seems to be over my head.
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Old 01-04-2014, 06:37 AM
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Old 01-04-2014, 06:55 AM
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Found another one.. Reread Robinson's review and he quotes gain at 32..http://www.audioholics.com/amplifier-reviews/sherbourn-pa-7-350-seven-channel-amplifier-preview/Sherbourn%207-350%20report-1.pdf

I don't have a horse in this race . Just trying to figure out how gain affects sound.?
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Old 01-06-2014, 08:46 AM
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Gain doesn't affect sound really. The issue some run into with higher (than 29dB) gains is the noise floor of the system creeps in that high. Coupling very high gain amps with highly efficient (98dB plus) speakers might be cause for concern. I couple my 7-350 with 99dB efficient speakers and have zero issues to speak of.

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Old 01-06-2014, 01:49 PM
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Thanks. Got to tell you. ( like you don't know ). Your Ht is over the top.. I did look at JTR .. Wait times are long but seem worth it ..
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Old 01-06-2014, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oybub1952 View Post

Thanks. Got to tell you. ( like you don't know ). Your Ht is over the top.. I did look at JTR .. Wait times are long but seem worth it ..

thx! I am hoping to update that avatar photo with the new bass arrays soon biggrin.gif Gotta build em out tho... And yes, the JTR are wonderful speakers biggrin.gif I has some before the Danley's and they were very impressive. the 212's are something special for sure.

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