Anthem MRX Receivers - 310, 510, 710 Owners Thread & Tweaking Guide - Page 111 - AVS Forum
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post #3301 of 3321 Old 11-21-2014, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palangitoy View Post
Hello.

I have just ran Arc on my MRX 310.

I notice that all 5 speakers and the sub woofer have negative trim levels. The sub is set at -13db which i think is the lowest trim setting.

Front Left: -5db
Center: -8db
Front Right: -8db
Surround Right: -3db
Surround Left: -4db
Sub woofer: -13db

So the first time I tried the new setup, I had to increase the master volume.

I would have expected that one set of speakers to have 0 db trim and the rest of the speakers be adjusted to level match with the strongest speaker?

Thoughts?

Thanks!
The gain knob on your sub is turned up way too high. Turn it down a bit and rerun ARC. Try to set it so that ARC sets it to within say 5 dB of 0.

The receiver will be trying to set each speaker to play at reference when the MRX volume control is set to a certain level, and not just relative to each other.

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post #3302 of 3321 Old 11-21-2014, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkeeler10 View Post
The gain knob on your sub is turned up way too high. Turn it down a bit and rerun ARC. Try to set it so that ARC sets it to within say 5 dB of 0.

The receiver will be trying to set each speaker to play at reference when the MRX volume control is set to a certain level, and not just relative to each other.
Thanks! The gain on the sub is at 12 o'clock position. Come to think of it, it's on the high side. I will lower it and re-run ARC. Thanks once again.
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post #3303 of 3321 Old 11-21-2014, 04:11 PM
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Hi all I have a question about the mrx510 .I just bought the 510 and I ran the arc 2 in automatic mode but after it finished and uploaded to the receiver I noticed that arc crossed all speakers over at 80hz.I used nad and marantz products before and the fronts were set to small 40hz or some set them to large .I ran arc again but before uploading it I changed the crossover point manually and all sounds well. my question is does the arc always cross everything over at 80hz.Also I used a mrx 500 and it didnt behave this way.This is my second 510 because the first had a bad power supply so the dealer exchanged it.The first receiver I had the same issue with arc the first time I ran it so I uninstalled the software from pc and installed it again and than i reran arc and bingo it crossed the fronts at 50hz and the other speakers accordingly .But this second 510 and arc2 software only crosses every speaker at 80hz. any suggestions ?

Anthem mrx510 Thiel cs2.2 and surrounds, arcam player ,xbox one
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post #3304 of 3321 Old 11-21-2014, 04:52 PM
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It usually crosses them at 80. It crossed my center at 60, mains at 80 first but after place adjustment it crossed those at 60 too. ARC is all about tinkering, so try out some options (and don't be afraid of 80 XO it sounds nicely in most situations. Just set the phase!).

2-channel is just multichannel done badly. - Frank Derks
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post #3305 of 3321 Old 11-22-2014, 09:12 AM
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Thanks for your response,the 510 and arc sound great and now I'm trying to learn the ins and outs.

Anthem mrx510 Thiel cs2.2 and surrounds, arcam player ,xbox one
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post #3306 of 3321 Old 11-22-2014, 01:05 PM
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I've been testing Anthem MRX 310, as I have always been intrested to try out ARC1M and compare it to Audyssey XT32.

I noticed some strange issue (bug?), or atleast would like to know if it works as intended.

My mains are bass managed and EQ'd to 40Hz.

Sub/LFE LPF is 120Hz.

I measured my system and noticed that there is higher bass output between 40 - 120 Hz.. I lowered LFE HPF 40Hz, and the curve was smooth and flat. Testing was done with 2 channel analog sweep.

To confirm this, I muted my active main speakers, left only subwoofer on, and there was signal going to sub up to 120Hz range. With HPF set to 40Hz things worked as I think they should with 40Hz crossover.

Why is it that? With 2 channel signal and 2.1 system with crossover of 40hz there shouldn't be going much over 40Hz to sub. And as I assumed that crossovers should handle what is put in to subwoofer, but is seems that only LPF limits it, and it is for all channels?

Last edited by quenthal; 11-22-2014 at 01:13 PM.
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post #3307 of 3321 Old 11-22-2014, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quenthal View Post
I've been testing Anthem MRX 310, as I have always been intrested to try out ARC1M and compare it to Audyssey XT32.

I noticed some strange issue (bug?), or atleast would like to know if it works as intended.

My mains are bass managed and EQ'd to 40Hz.

Sub/LFE LPF is 120Hz.

I measured my system and noticed that there is higher bass output between 40 - 120 Hz.. I lowered LFE HPF 40Hz, and the curve was smooth and flat. Testing was done with 2 channel analog sweep.

To confirm this, I muted my active main speakers, left only subwoofer on, and there was signal going to sub up to 120Hz range. With HPF set to 40Hz things worked as I think they should with 40Hz crossover.

Why is it that? With 2 channel signal and 2.1 system with crossover of 40hz there shouldn't be going much over 40Hz to sub. And as I assumed that crossovers should handle what is put in to subwoofer, but is seems that only LPF limits it, and it is for all channels?
Try lowering the room gain.
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post #3308 of 3321 Old 11-22-2014, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grasshoppers View Post
Try lowering the room gain.
Room gain is/was set to 0dB.

Currently it seems that even with 2 channel source it is LFE's LPF that says what gets to subwoofer, not crossover of main speakers. (I'll probably have to rerun my tests just to make sure).

EDIT: Crossover works as it should!

(However, as a minor annoyance, there seems to be time after uploading settings back to MRX that crossovers and LPF are acting strangely. At least in this case changing setting and back got rid of that.)

EDIT 2: I was happy too soon. With some familiar material I again noticed some imbalance at low frequencies. I confirmed this again, see pictures below:

Last edited by quenthal; 11-23-2014 at 04:16 AM.
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post #3309 of 3321 Old 11-23-2014, 04:23 AM
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There is definetly something strange going on with stereo sources and crossover setting <-> LPF filter for sub.

Stereo, but only subwoofer, crossover 40Hz, LPF 120Hz:


Stereo, but only subwoofer, crossover 40Hz, LPF 40Hz (this is what I want with crossover, setting LPF this low screws things with movies):


mains+sub, x-over 40Hz and LPF 120Hz


mains+sub, x-over 40Hz and LPF 40Hz
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post #3310 of 3321 Old 11-23-2014, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quenthal View Post
Room gain is/was set to 0dB.

Currently it seems that even with 2 channel source it is LFE's LPF that says what gets to subwoofer, not crossover of main speakers. (I'll probably have to rerun my tests just to make sure).

EDIT: Crossover works as it should!

(However, as a minor annoyance, there seems to be time after uploading settings back to MRX that crossovers and LPF are acting strangely. At least in this case changing setting and back got rid of that.)

EDIT 2: I was happy too soon. With some familiar material I again noticed some imbalance at low frequencies. I confirmed this again, see pictures below:
Couple of things...are you running the latest version of
ARC software? I remember a similar issue in this thread:
Archaea's Auto room EQ/AVR comparison G2G - November 8, 2014 - Kansas City
The user had not changed to the latest software and had the
Same result issue.

I've seen very few cases of zero room gain, I find it
Unusual.

Lastly, unfortunately. I am using an orginal MRX,
And the software (ARC) is radically different!
I try to help out where I can, but with no hands on
Experience my input is somewhat limited.

I will peer at your graphs some more and see what I
Can come up with. (It's VERY early in the western US)
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post #3311 of 3321 Old 11-23-2014, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grasshoppers View Post
Couple of things...are you running the latest version of
ARC software? I remember a similar issue in this thread:
Archaea's Auto room EQ/AVR comparison G2G - November 8, 2014 - Kansas City
The user had not changed to the latest software and had the
Same result issue.

I've seen very few cases of zero room gain, I find it
Unusual.

Lastly, unfortunately. I am using an orginal MRX,
And the software (ARC) is radically different!
I try to help out where I can, but with no hands on
Experience my input is somewhat limited.

I will peer at your graphs some more and see what I
Can come up with. (It's VERY early in the western US)
Everything should be latest versions (1.0.1.7 etc.), I updated both the software and MRX 310's firmware last week.

Room gain is 0, probably because my main speakers are designed for difficult rooms and the bass is dipole. I've also confirmed manually from ARC that room gain is 0.0.

I compared to my other receiver (Marantz SR7008, and LPF doesn't affect crossover with stereo sources).
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post #3312 of 3321 Old 11-23-2014, 05:41 AM
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If your Velodyne sub has a DSP equalization
Program (same as ARC?) it has been suggested
To run the sub EQ first the ARC.

Alternatively disable the sub EQ and then run
ARC.

I was able to achieve my best response by
EQ'ing the sub first then employing ARC.
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post #3313 of 3321 Old 11-23-2014, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quenthal View Post
Everything should be latest versions (1.0.1.7 etc.), I updated both the software and MRX 310's firmware last week.

Room gain is 0, probably because my main speakers are designed for difficult rooms and the bass is dipole. .
Now I am wondering if the bass dipole design is
Causing the anomalies. That kind of speaker design
Is unfamiliar to me.

Can you change the crossovers on your mains to
60hz and recheck your results?
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post #3314 of 3321 Old 11-23-2014, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grasshoppers View Post
If your Velodyne sub has a DSP equalization
Program (same as ARC?) it has been suggested
To run the sub EQ first the ARC.

Alternatively disable the sub EQ and then run
ARC.

I was able to achieve my best response by
EQ'ing the sub first then employing ARC.
Thanks for assist on these early hours!

About sub eq: yes, that's correct

However I just bypassed the whole sub EQ and used Velodyne's screen only to point out this issue with crossovers and LPF. As you can see from the pictures 1 and 3, that even when I'm using crossover of 40Hz, much higher frequencies are passed to subwoofer. For me it would seem that crossover only works as HPF for main speakers, but not as LPF for 2.0 -> 2.1 bass management. Instead it uses the global 120Hz LPF. This is different for example compared to Marantz I'm also using.
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post #3315 of 3321 Old 11-23-2014, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grasshoppers View Post
Now I am wondering if the bass dipole design is
Causing the anomalies. That kind of speaker design
Is unfamiliar to me.

Can you change the crossovers on your mains to
60hz and recheck your results?
Yeah, I thought about that too. That's why I powered them completely down (as they are active speakers) just to see what gets passed to subwoofer (pictures 1 and 2). As there are no main speakers active at all on those pictures (only sub), you can see LPF and crossovers in action there.
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post #3316 of 3321 Old 11-23-2014, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quenthal View Post
Yeah, I thought about that too. That's why I powered them completely down (as they are active speakers) just to see what gets passed to subwoofer (pictures 1 and 2). As there are no main speakers active at all on those pictures (only sub), you can see LPF and crossovers in action there.
The only other thing I can suggest is to
Experiment with the crossover for the mains.
Remember that a crossover point is not a brick
Wall..you will always have some bleed over.

You have a lot of variables to deal with...
(Sub EQ,active mains with dipole bass,ARC)

Almost to much!!
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post #3317 of 3321 Old 11-23-2014, 06:29 AM
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I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest
An alternative approach to help analyze your
Issues.

Give REW a whirl, it's a highly regarded room
EQ program that analyzes your system responses
Using free software and a calibrated USB microphone.

Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs

I haven't tried it,but many members swear by it.
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post #3318 of 3321 Old 11-23-2014, 06:37 AM
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From http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/audio...subwoofer.html :
Quote:
If you set any HPF frequency lower than the subwoofer LPF frequency, you will get an overlap and a peak in that range between the LPF value and the lower HPF value. You should never be setting the panel to create this condition.
Above text is about previous models, so hopefully this is not the same thing with MRX x10's?..

This would explain things I have observed.

Velodyne's graph is nowhere near REW, but it is trustworthy enough to confirm things. Also LPF / x-over works as expected with Marantz with same material and devices.

Maybe I should try to update MRX again.
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post #3319 of 3321 Old 11-23-2014, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quenthal View Post
From http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/audio...subwoofer.html :


Above text is about previous models, so hopefully this is not the same thing with MRX x10's?..

This would explain things I have observed.

Velodyne's graph is nowhere near REW, but it is trustworthy enough to confirm things. Also LPF / x-over works as expected with Marantz with same material and devices.

Maybe I should try to update MRX again.
I have always wondered which EQ systems/microphones
Are "truly" accurate...especially when facing differences
In graphs like you have. It's a slippery slope. That's why
I suggested REW.

I took me some time to get my system dialed in...and
At this time I am very happy with what I hear. I haven't
Run ARC in a couple of years.

You can check which firmare you have on
The MRX in the system menu.
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post #3320 of 3321 Old Yesterday, 04:39 PM
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So I adopted the MRX-510 that rboster posted about a bit ago on this thread. I've been primarily listening to FLAC tracks via HDMI sourced by my BDP-93 and using the stereo pre outs to a McCormack DNA-era amp. The initial track clipping sent me straight to this thread and an update to the software and firmware shortly thereafter resolved that issue.

I'm also experiencing the signal clipping that's very similar to what's been described here save for an extra facet of behavior I didn't see any mention of. The clipping was ephemeral for most material; usually just a bit too saturated/crushed in places but piano overtones on multiple tracks really exacerbated it beyond the breakup point, even at conservative listening levels (hence my signal clipping conclusion). The unusual bit is that, sometime when toggling between ARC On/Off, particularly right after uploading a new profile, the bass gets a very significant boost and, although the clipping goes away and returns each time I toggle, the bass bump remains throughout until I power cycle the 510.

I did catch that a beta version of either the software or firmware exists but I've failed to pin down exactly where to find it. Where can I get it and would it address the odd bass issues I experienced as well? I'm pretty excited to get this bit nailed down so that I can move on to my room treatment planning. (Yeah, I know: "cart before the horse" but....toys.)
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post #3321 of 3321 Old Yesterday, 08:04 PM
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Ok
I have the MRX-510 and only a pair of Paradigm Studio 20s v.5. I have Subwoofer off. Why does sub level still affect the bass ? Any suggestions on setup until I expand my system. It shows crossover off when I turn off sub.
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