Anthem MRX Receivers - 310, 510, 710 Owners Thread & Tweaking Guide - Page 157 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4681 of 4694 Unread 07-11-2016, 01:24 PM
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Yeah. 720 has the same issue in terms of clarity for Dolby modeler setup. I used to stay away from Dolby volume until I realized you could turn off leveler but still keep modeler function on.


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post #4682 of 4694 Unread 07-26-2016, 06:17 AM
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Strange ARC2 PC program behaiour

Something I don't understand. I have a 5.0 system (the sub-woofer is next step). I have ran ARC several times and here what surprised me.
Leaving ARC2 default (Autodetect), with Front EQ cutoff detected at 90 Hz, I get the following curve (1)
If I change the Front Equalization Cutoff from 90 Hz to 50 Hz I get the following one (2):

Quite interesting that it happened during my test to have (2) as default (this is the reason I have at the end chosen the value 50 Hz as Front cutoff). Not really clear to this different detection of value (I have only moved surrounds)

Anyhow, what mainly puzzles me is how is that, with a front EQ cutoff of 90 Hz, ARC cannot fix the red circled zone!

PS: I have also attached a zip of the .arc file (have a look only to config 1)
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Attached Files
File Type: zip MRX 510 25 07 2016 with center 7 pos front.zip (295.8 KB, 5 views)

Media Server Audio: Teufel Connector 2 Media Server Video: XBMC TV: Panasonic TX-L37ET5E BD/DVR:Panasonic BMR-BWT735 Media player: Teufel Connector 2, WD TV Live (Remoto/cucina), HT Rec: ANTHEM MRX 510, Front: Woofer & Tweeter, Center: 2 Woofer & Tweeter, Surround: Bose acoustimass 5 series II
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post #4683 of 4694 Unread 07-26-2016, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ebr9999 View Post
Something I don't understand. I have a 5.0 system (the sub-woofer is next step). I have ran ARC several times and here what surprised me.
Leaving ARC2 default (Autodetect), with Front EQ cutoff detected at 90 Hz, I get the following curve (1)
If I change the Front Equalization Cutoff from 90 Hz to 50 Hz I get the following one (2):

Quite interesting that it happened during my test to have (2) as default (this is the reason I have at the end chosen the value 50 Hz as Front cutoff). ....
^^never tried a setup without subs. i wonder it tries to set a cut off freq for the mains at all then. well when the cutoff is 90 there is no eq below that where your circled area is.
so just guessin: i'd try a flat setting (no eq cut off) for the mains to see how it goes. The surrounds will/should transfer the low freq to the mains i would assume. in the end you wanna extend the low freq as much as possible without stressing these speakers too much a target rolling off below 50 looks about right. the eq will try to match the target but only where you say it shall/may do so.... i doubt there is much more in it as seen in your fig. 2. not too bad i'd say.
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post #4684 of 4694 Unread 07-26-2016, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mazpri View Post
^^never tried a setup without subs. i wonder it tries to set a cut off freq for the mains at all then. well when the cutoff is 90 there is no eq below that where your circled area is.
so just guessin: i'd try a flat setting (no eq cut off) for the mains to see how it goes. The surrounds will/should transfer the low freq to the mains i would assume. in the end you wanna extend the low freq as much as possible without stressing these speakers too much a target rolling off below 50 looks about right. the eq will try to match the target but only where you say it shall/may do so.... i doubt there is much more in it as seen in your fig. 2. not too bad i'd say.
I agree fig. 2 is OK.
With flat setting the corrected response is similar to the one in fig 2 (the target is obviously flat, but SPL missing from 15 to 30 Hz can be bosted only to a certain amount)



The same with defaults (i.e. eq=90 Hz) gives the following:
I don't understand the eq curve till 60 Hz: I would expect some more attenuation to compensate the peak at 40 Hz (that in the flat case works well).

Maybe the issue is why that 90 Hz has been detected in a configuration without sub-woofer
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post #4685 of 4694 Unread 07-27-2016, 02:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ebr9999 View Post
I agree fig. 2 is OK.
With flat setting the corrected response is similar to the one in fig 2 (the target is obviously flat, but SPL missing from 15 to 30 Hz can be bosted only to a certain amount)

The same with defaults (i.e. eq=90 Hz) gives the following:
I don't understand the eq curve till 60 Hz: I would expect some more attenuation to compensate the peak at 40 Hz (that in the flat case works well).

Maybe the issue is why that 90 Hz has been detected in a configuration without sub-woofer
well there is nothing there that could be corrected below 40hz, but for front speakers that is not too bad either. I guess there is a fixed filter in the speakers to cut off below that.
I wonder if the filter settings for sub would effect the target curve in your case or if the target curve is only dependent on cut off freq. setting.

But regardless - in case you can't tell a difference between the 50hz cutoff and the flat target setting I'd call it a day. Depending on your hearing capabilities you might prefer a roll off, but it really depends. You might got have used to that peak at the lower end. There is not much content where it would be very obvious you have a too hard cutoff on that corrected all flat settings, certainly not with movie soundfx.
For a future upgrade an additional sub must be really capable below 40hz. A perfect integration at typical 80hz should be easily doable with ARC then. You then might enjoy the lower freq and better performing mains in the lows. But you also might come to the conclusion you don't need an extra sub at all - better try before buying.
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post #4686 of 4694 Unread 07-27-2016, 11:01 AM
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ARC optimization

longshot try: Try lowering the upper frequency max considered for ARC, say to 1000 or500 Hz.

I think there may only be just "so much" filter capacity/coefficients, and if it can use it all in the bass region you may get better results?
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post #4687 of 4694 Unread 07-27-2016, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mazpri View Post
....
I wonder if the filter settings for sub would effect the target curve in your case or if the target curve is only dependent on cut off freq. setting.
Yes, I guess so, as front Crossover would be not set to off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mazpri View Post
.....
For a future upgrade an additional sub must be really capable below 40hz. A perfect integration at typical 80hz should be easily doable with ARC then. You then might enjoy the lower freq and better performing mains in the lows. But you also might come to the conclusion you don't need an extra sub at all - better try before buying.
I agree with your suggestion.
Indeed I have tried using the central of my Bose I use as surround: good integration with front, but little effect. But it was quite a poor sub.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drchaos View Post
longshot try: Try lowering the upper frequency max considered for ARC, say to 1000 or500 Hz.

I think there may only be just "so much" filter capacity/coefficients, and if it can use it all in the bass region you may get better results?
Many thanks for the suggestion, but it has not worked out.

I have done some listening testing between the two config. i.e detected with front eq=90 vs. modified with front eq=50 (I have done some manual editing of the .arc file you in in my first post ):
  1. with a test sound of 40 Hz test tone the 90 Hz (detected) config has higher perceived volume.
  2. Default configuration does not rumble (as I was afraid of) and quality of sound is richer on detected
  3. Default is better centered (it looks like ARC is optimized for its detected)
So I have switched to detected, only changing center eq to 50 (from 40) as producing a little to much bass

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post #4688 of 4694 Unread Yesterday, 10:36 AM
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Power Amp Needed? Volume Question

Hey All,

I just scored an MRX 510. I have a ARC kit coming in the mail, so I haven't been able to run the ARC yet. I'm running 3.1 for speakers, plus a 2.1 speaker setup in Zone 2. I've only tested the main zone so far.

I'm finding the volume/loudness to be a good deal lower than I expected. The MRX 510 replaced a Denon 2312 - so nothing fancy, but so far I feel the Denon was putting out more volume. When I wanted to watch a concert DVD and really get it pumping and feeling good, I had the volume all the way up to -12 to get the output level that I wanted. Even with regular (not loud) tv viewing, I'm running at about -47. That seems really high just to be getting a normal tv viewing volume? I am using speakers with a 6ohm load (and a powered sub). I have the MRX speaker config set with front, center, and sub = ON. The MRX 510 replaced a Denon 2312 - so nothing fancy, but so far I feel the Denon was putting out more volume.

My questions:

Is this apparent lack of power/volume output likely to be correct by the optimizations that ARC performs?

Would an Anthem PVA7 get me additional power/output - or would that only get me improved clarity and definition?

If one is running a 100w AVR (75w all channels driven), how much power would you need in a power amp to make it worth getting a power amp? I was curious about adding a power amp even with the Denon.

Thanks!

So far I don't think anything is wrong with the MRX 510, but I do want it to be louder.

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post #4689 of 4694 Unread Yesterday, 10:49 AM
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it seems to depend on the source

on my 510 i play satellite tv at say -25

records at -15 to -20

cd's/sacd's range between -30 and -15 depending on hotness of mastering.

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post #4690 of 4694 Unread Yesterday, 02:52 PM
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From Denon manual I see there is a relative volume (scaling from -80.1 to 18) and an absolute one (scaling from from 0 to 99.0). MRX volume scaling from -90 to 10. Assuming absolute volume is used (Denon), you should add 10 to the volume used on MRX to compare. Assuming instead relative volume is used you should subtract around 10 instead.
This obviously under the assumption the two systems have the same response curve.

I think that to compare maximum power you should measure SPL at maximum value on both systems (never tried on my MRX).
Then you shoudl consider also distortion.

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post #4691 of 4694 Unread Yesterday, 03:03 PM
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@ebr9999 : Thanks for that. I was under the impression that the MRX only we "up" to 0, I didn't realize it the volume would go through 0 up to 10 db. I just confirmed in the manual as well. I stopped upping my volume at -12, because I didn't want to blow it up. So as it turns out, I have more room than I thought.
@bcugk : Your numbers are more understandable to me now that I realize I was looking through a broken lens. Thanks for sharing.
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post #4692 of 4694 Unread Today, 03:27 AM
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I went up to -2 with some SACDs, general movie volume is between -10 and -20 here. It doesn't even heat up that much, even if I turn off the fans providing airflow for it. With them I have not seen its own fans spin up at all. Then again this all depends on the speakers pretty much, and I doubt many here heard of Quadral, let alone own some .

2-channel is just multichannel done badly. - Frank Derks
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post #4693 of 4694 Unread Today, 06:17 AM
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Add a Power Amp?

Thanks all. Sounds like I'm having a normal experience regarding the volume level. So what about adding a power amp? From what I gather, a 125-150w per channel power amp would only be a teeny bit louder than the internal amps on the MRX 510? Is that true? Have any folks added a power amp, and if so, why? And what was the result? Would an Anthem 125wpc power amp sound better than the internal amp on the MRX 510?

Thanks
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post #4694 of 4694 Unread Today, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jujo View Post
Thanks all. Sounds like I'm having a normal experience regarding the volume level. So what about adding a power amp? From what I gather, a 125-150w per channel power amp would only be a teeny bit louder than the internal amps on the MRX 510? Is that true? Have any folks added a power amp, and if so, why? And what was the result? Would an Anthem 125wpc power amp sound better than the internal amp on the MRX 510?

Thanks
I guess your goal is to increase quality rather than SPL (as you don't want to blow it up). Clearly increasing power you can decrease THD (as you will be listening at lower volume).
I have tried connecting my old (valid) ADCOM GFA 545 II, rated 100 W at 0.04 THD (vs. internal rated 100 W at 0.1 THD). The volume level was a little lower (I thing it depends on pre-final level coupling) and if there was a difference in sound I could not hear it. So I am planning to put my Adcom on sales.

IMO you should at least double the power to hear something of appreciable. I think you should also investigate if it is the case of changing amplifier class. And I am not even sure you might catch it.

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