Anthem MRX Receivers - 310, 510, 710 Owners Thread & Tweaking Guide - Page 43 - AVS Forum
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post #1261 of 2716 Old 03-01-2014, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by primetimeguy View Post

Thanks, that is what I guessed based on the measurements as your speaker/room are about 3-5db lower in the 3-6khz range which ARC brought up in it's correction.  Thanks for all your work and info!

Exactly. When I have more time I may test correction in some kind of steps all they way up to maybe 2 KHz or even 3.5 KHz however where as before I felt a great need for improvement when I first corrected to 5 KHz currently I have no such need now that correction to 200 Hz has yielded very satisfying results. My current guess is that there maybe further improvement in correction up to maybe 500 Hz.
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post #1262 of 2716 Old 03-02-2014, 03:39 AM
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Remember what Nick@Anthem said, sometimes a greater range where ARC is applied makes the correction easier. My guess is if there is one bit which way off, a larger range of correction allows for a better "average" curve.

 

As for brightness, what I find about is that higher range correction reveals more midrange details and enriches the soundstage. It may sound too forward. But where it would be useful is if the centre channel is placed in an awkward location such as extremes of height or recessed or behind a screen.

 

Maybe reference is too loud ;-)

 

I'm glad you guys are enjoying playing around with it. I think the benefits will apply most to setups using stereo hifi speakers. In reent years, the trend for higher end speakers has been to improve dispersion and imaging for off-axis listening. As such, I often find I get more "surround" from 2.0 sources using 2.1 when than when forcibly upmixing. The trickery behind it are probably phasing and frequency filters etc between the drivers. These things can confuse calibration mics

 

the other thing which is also worth playing with, if you have a sharp, precise, high frequency sub, is room gain. Contrary to my previous posts, perhaps as my sub has now run-in a bit, I have pushed my room gain to 5.375 from 2.5, which was what ARC set previously. Sub levels have gone up from -5.5 to -2.675.

 

I thought t would sound unnatural, but no, the whole sound stage has been lifted considerably. Bass details and attack are much better. Listening volume as a consequence is lower.

 

Go figure. But I'm a firm believer of this psychoaccoustics voodoo.

 

as I said, keep an open mind and while useful, don't rely on just a meter.

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post #1263 of 2716 Old 03-02-2014, 04:21 AM
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A small quirk with the surround modes. I don't know if it was mentioned before in a previous post or not.

In the setup mode under each available source you have the option for setting the surround mode. I selected "none" as I figured I would decide the mode after placing in the disc I wanted to listen to.

I put in a "CD" and decided to listen in the Music Logic mode. During the playback of the "CD" in between songs the Anthem switched out of "Music Logic" and back into "Stereo". I figured the gap in between songs was long enough to generate a "no signal" so the Anthem reverted back to the mode I set in the setup menu.

Using "last used" in the setup menu prevents this from happening.
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post #1264 of 2716 Old 03-02-2014, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank D View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by primetimeguy View Post

Thank you.  How would you describe the difference you hear between Config 1 and 2?  Config 2 too harsh for your liking?

Yes config 2 was more harsh, more bright (which was too bright and unpleasant for me) and sounded fatiguing after a while especially when listening at louder reference levels. I like to watch movies at reference levels where by my speakers are calibrated to 75 db.

This is a classic description of what happens if you ask ARC to correct to the higher frequency limit but where the mic is not hearing accurate higher frequency output from the speakers. Typically this happens because either the mic tip was not set at seated ear height, or because the speaker pointing was not accurate, particularly in the vertical direction. Speakers tend to have much more variability in off axis output at higher frequencies, and for many speaker designs the vertical direction is more critical than the horizontal direction.

It's also important to have the ARC mic pointing straight up to get accurate readings.
--Bob

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post #1265 of 2716 Old 03-02-2014, 06:46 AM
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I don't think we can say anything about mic placement from the results. We can see his speaker has a slight natural roll off that he prefers over ARC correcting it to flat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

This is a classic description of what happens if you ask ARC to correct to the higher frequency limit but where the mic is not hearing accurate higher frequency output from the speakers. Typically this happens because either the mic tip was not set at seated ear height, or because the speaker pointing was not accurate, particularly in the vertical direction. Speakers tend to have much more variability in off axis output at higher frequencies, and for many speaker designs the vertical direction is more critical than the horizontal direction.

It's also important to have the ARC mic pointing straight up to get accurate readings.
--Bob
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post #1266 of 2716 Old 03-02-2014, 06:48 AM
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Unfortunately, I have encountered what might be a show-stopper issue with my new MRX510.  When my Oppo BDP-93 is connected to the 510, the Oppo will not complete its boot-up, and becomes completely unresponsive.  I have tried the following trouble-shooting steps:

 

- Power-cycled the Oppo

- Connected the Oppo to different HDMI ports on the 510

- Swapped out the HDMI cable

- Toggled HDMI processing from "process" to "pass-through"

 

None of the above steps resulted on the Oppo completing its boot and becoming functional.  I could make the Oppo functional by:

 

- Disconnecting it completely from the 510 and connecting it directly to the display (not a good option for me)

- Connecting to HDMI 2 on the Oppo (which bypasses the QDEO video processing on the Oppo, also not desirable)

 

The fact that the Oppo works fine using HDMI 2 suggests some sort of video conflict between the Oppo and the 510 that isn't allowing the HDMI handshake to complete successfully.

 

The purpose of this note is to ask whether anyone else has experienced connectivity issues with an Oppo BDP-93.  I have reported the issue to both Oppo support and Anthem support, and will share any responses I receive, and a resolution, should I discover one.

 

Edit:  Bob P. help!

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post #1267 of 2716 Old 03-02-2014, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lokyc View Post

Remember what Nick@Anthem said, sometimes a greater range where ARC is applied makes the correction easier. My guess is if there is one bit which way off, a larger range of correction allows for a better "average" curve.

As for brightness, what I find about is that higher range correction reveals more midrange details and enriches the soundstage. It may sound too forward. But where it would be useful is if the centre channel is placed in an awkward location such as extremes of height or recessed or behind a screen.

Maybe reference is too loud ;-)

I'm glad you guys are enjoying playing around with it. I think the benefits will apply most to setups using stereo hifi speakers. In reent years, the trend for higher end speakers has been to improve dispersion and imaging for off-axis listening. As such, I often find I get more "surround" from 2.0 sources using 2.1 when than when forcibly upmixing. The trickery behind it are probably phasing and frequency filters etc between the drivers. These things can confuse calibration mics

the other thing which is also worth playing with, if you have a sharp, precise, high frequency sub, is room gain. Contrary to my previous posts, perhaps as my sub has now run-in a bit, I have pushed my room gain to 5.375 from 2.5, which was what ARC set previously. Sub levels have gone up from -5.5 to -2.675.

I thought t would sound unnatural, but no, the whole sound stage has been lifted considerably. Bass details and attack are much better. Listening volume as a consequence is lower.

Go figure. But I'm a firm believer of this psychoaccoustics voodoo.

as I said, keep an open mind and while useful, don't rely on just a meter.

Lokyc - your comments and room gain adjustments remind me of the fact that ARC, due to the sound sampling employed, may take a sound "snapshot" that does not capture all the "time domain" response variations that sum to the room sound . I have eq'd rooms that required subwoofer adjustments similar to yours to accommodate sound characteristics that I could not necessarily correlate to my room measurements. Loudspeaker designers also "voice" their loudspeaker designs, and I have totally destroyed the sound of a wonderful sounding speaker by trying to flatten a small response deviation in upper frequencies. This may also be a reason why some ARC results may sound better when the upper limit is set below 5000 hz. Makes it all fun. smile.gif
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post #1268 of 2716 Old 03-02-2014, 07:00 AM
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Well, this just isn't my day.  I am having issues with my Apple TV3 playing through the 510 as well.  The picture flickers on and off, as if it is conducting a repeated HDMI handshake.  I have tried adjusting the Apple TV video output parameters (resolution and color space), but I can't find settings that eliminate the flicker.

 

I have a Darblet on the HDMI1 output from the 510 to the Sony display.  The HDMI2 output has no Darblet.  Thinking the Darblet might be causing an issue, I switched to HDMI2, but the flickering persists.

 

Have there been any reports of HDMI issues with the MRX series?  Or could I simply have a defective unit?

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post #1269 of 2716 Old 03-02-2014, 07:42 AM
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I haven't had any hdmi problems at all. I have ps3, Apple TV, roku, and cable box.

Jerry you have the latest software update loaded into your receiver... Correct?

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post #1270 of 2716 Old 03-02-2014, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by JasonT35 View Post

I haven't had any hdmi problems at all. I have ps3, Apple TV, roku, and cable box.

Jerry you have the latest software update loaded into your receiver... Correct?

 

I have software version 1.1.4, which seems to be the latest version according to the Anthem web site.  I am having no issues with two DirecTV DVRs, just the ATV and the Oppo.

 

Is your ATV version 3?

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post #1271 of 2716 Old 03-02-2014, 08:03 AM
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I would make all your connections and then master reset the anthem. Reinstall the firmware. Go into the setup menu and configure each input and see if problem persists.

Did you install the software update yourself or did the receiver already have the latest version 1.1.4?

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post #1272 of 2716 Old 03-02-2014, 08:03 AM
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I have Apple TV 2

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post #1273 of 2716 Old 03-02-2014, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Unfortunately, I have encountered what might be a show-stopper issue with my new MRX510.  When my Oppo BDP-93 is connected to the 510, the Oppo will not complete its boot-up, and becomes completely unresponsive.  I have tried the following trouble-shooting steps:

- Power-cycled the Oppo
- Connected the Oppo to different HDMI ports on the 510
- Swapped out the HDMI cable
- Toggled HDMI processing from "process" to "pass-through"

None of the above steps resulted on the Oppo completing its boot and becoming functional.  I could make the Oppo functional by:

- Disconnecting it completely from the 510 and connecting it directly to the display (not a good option for me)
- Connecting to HDMI 2 on the Oppo (which bypasses the QDEO video processing on the Oppo, also not desirable)

The fact that the Oppo works fine using HDMI 2 suggests some sort of video conflict between the Oppo and the 510 that isn't allowing the HDMI handshake to complete successfully.

The purpose of this note is to ask whether anyone else has experienced connectivity issues with an Oppo BDP-93.  I have reported the issue to both Oppo support and Anthem support, and will share any responses I receive, and a resolution, should I discover one.

Edit:  Bob P. help!

HDMI 1 from my test 93 works just fine with the MRX 710. I don't have a 510, but I'd be surprised if there's any difference.

You may have a power on sequencing problem. Make sure you display is fully powered up, THEN turn on the MRX and wait for it to fully power up, THEN turn on the OPPO.

If that doesn't help, try forcing a new HDMI handshake. On the MRX, change it to a different HDMI input and then back to the one from the OPPO. On the OPPO use the Resolution button on the remote (and the Arrow and Enter buttons) to change the OPPO output to 1080i, and then back to 1080p.
--Bob

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post #1274 of 2716 Old 03-02-2014, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonT35 View Post

I would make all your connections and then master reset the anthem. Reinstall the firmware. Go into the setup menu and configure each input and see if problem persists.

Did you install the software update yourself or did the receiver already have the latest version 1.1.4?

 

The 510 came with that version already installed.

 

Since I am relatively new to the 510, can I save the settings customization when I do a master reset?  Please tell me how so I can learn from this experience.  Also, will I need to reload the ARC calibration?

 

Thanks.

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post #1275 of 2716 Old 03-02-2014, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post


HDMI 1 from my test 93 works just fine with the MRX 710. I don't have a 510, but I'd be surprised if there's any difference.

You may have a power on sequencing problem. Make sure you display is fully powered up, THEN turn on the MRX and wait for it to fully power up, THEN turn on the OPPO.

If that doesn't help, try forcing a new HDMI handshake. On the MRX, change it to a different HDMI input and then back to the one from the OPPO. On the OPPO use the Resolution button on the remote (and the Arrow and Enter buttons) to change the OPPO output to 1080i, and then back to 1080p.
--Bob

 

Thanks for your input, Bob.  As for the power sequencing, the display and MRX are already powered on when I select the activity "Watch Blu-ray" on my Harmony remote. 

 

As for forcing the HDMI handshake, I have swapped HDMI ports on the MRX.  And recall that the Oppo is completely unresponsive because it is failing to boot up, so using the Resolution button is not an option on the Oppo.

 

Edit:  My signal path is:

 

Oppo HDMI1 --> MRX510 HDMI1 In --> MRX510 HDMI1 Out --> Darblet --> Sony XBR65X900

 

I have also tried (unsuccessfully):

 

Oppo HDMI1 --> MRX510 HDMI1 In --> MRX510 HDMI2 Out  --> Sony XBR65X900

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post #1276 of 2716 Old 03-02-2014, 08:19 AM
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You won't be able to save your settings. Master reset will restore to factory. The arc file on your computer can be uploaded after you do the reset.

I would try what bob mentioned above before factory reset.

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post #1277 of 2716 Old 03-02-2014, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobAd View Post


Lokyc - your comments and room gain adjustments remind me of the fact that ARC, due to the sound sampling employed, may take a sound "snapshot" that does not capture all the "time domain" response variations that sum to the room sound . I have eq'd rooms that required subwoofer adjustments similar to yours to accommodate sound characteristics that I could not necessarily correlate to my room measurements. Loudspeaker designers also "voice" their loudspeaker designs, and I have totally destroyed the sound of a wonderful sounding speaker by trying to flatten a small response deviation in upper frequencies. This may also be a reason why some ARC results may sound better when the upper limit is set below 5000 hz. Makes it all fun. smile.gif

 

I thought they may have tried to get around that having 5 whoops each time ;-)

 

But definitely, a measured flat response may not always be the most desirable, This probably applies to Audyssey and REW.

 

I just came away with performing 10 measurements. Basically adding a height dimension. This time, achieved another step up in performance. Default room gain dropped to 2.25, default gain at -3.5.

 

In my experience, this makes for a stronger bass across the soundstage, and I wonder if this is a possible way to solve the "bass too thin" problem.

 

Still tweaking the crossovers and Room Gain before had to shoot off for work. Funny enough, I get more bass "attack" with slightly lower RG. So far results are promising.

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post #1278 of 2716 Old 03-02-2014, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by JasonT35 View Post

You won't be able to save your settings. Master reset will restore to factory. The arc file on your computer can be uploaded after you do the reset.

I would try what bob mentioned above before factory reset.

That is disappointing. I am used to being able to save all customizations to a disk file. Customizations are time-consuming.
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post #1279 of 2716 Old 03-02-2014, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Unfortunately, I have encountered what might be a show-stopper issue with my new MRX510.  When my Oppo BDP-93 is connected to the 510, the Oppo will not complete its boot-up, and becomes completely unresponsive.  I have tried the following trouble-shooting steps:

- Power-cycled the Oppo
- Connected the Oppo to different HDMI ports on the 510
- Swapped out the HDMI cable
- Toggled HDMI processing from "process" to "pass-through"

None of the above steps resulted on the Oppo completing its boot and becoming functional.  I could make the Oppo functional by:

- Disconnecting it completely from the 510 and connecting it directly to the display (not a good option for me)
- Connecting to HDMI 2 on the Oppo (which bypasses the QDEO video processing on the Oppo, also not desirable)

The fact that the Oppo works fine using HDMI 2 suggests some sort of video conflict between the Oppo and the 510 that isn't allowing the HDMI handshake to complete successfully.

The purpose of this note is to ask whether anyone else has experienced connectivity issues with an Oppo BDP-93.  I have reported the issue to both Oppo support and Anthem support, and will share any responses I receive, and a resolution, should I discover one.

Edit:  Bob P. help!

Yikes. I wonder if the Oppo 103 is affected as well? Certainly there are other Oppo/Anthem owners here, but this is the first report I've read like this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Well, this just isn't my day.  I am having issues with my Apple TV3 playing through the 510 as well.  The picture flickers on and off, as if it is conducting a repeated HDMI handshake.  I have tried adjusting the Apple TV video output parameters (resolution and color space), but I can't find settings that eliminate the flicker.

I have a Darblet on the HDMI1 output from the 510 to the Sony display.  The HDMI2 output has no Darblet.  Thinking the Darblet might be causing an issue, I switched to HDMI2, but the flickering persists.

Have there been any reports of HDMI issues with the MRX series?  Or could I simply have a defective unit?

Hmmmm....like others said, try a reset. If that doesn't work I'm thinking you might have a defective unit.

Keep us posted.

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post #1280 of 2716 Old 03-02-2014, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Have there been any reports of HDMI issues with the MRX series?  Or could I simply have a defective unit?

I've had a bunch of problems with my 510. Mixture of white static screens and just black nothingness. Usually turning off the unit will fix it, but between that and the loud crackles when skipping commercials on my PVR, it's getting a bit old. I've tried the 1.1.7 FW and it doesn't help. I may go back to my dealer and see if I can swap. Originally, moving my PVR cable down to HDMI 7 helped a bit with the pops and crackles, but they aren't gone.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

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post #1281 of 2716 Old 03-02-2014, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by MitchPope View Post


I've had a bunch of problems with my 510. Mixture of white static screens and just black nothingness. Usually turning off the unit will fix it, but between that and the loud crackles when skipping commercials on my PVR, it's getting a bit old. I've tried the 1.1.7 FW and it doesn't help. I may go back to my dealer and see if I can swap. Originally, moving my PVR cable down to HDMI 7 helped a bit with the pops and crackles, but they aren't gone.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

FW 1.1.7?  I only see 1.1.4 on the web site.  While certainly not insignificant, your issues seem to be quite different than what I am seeing.

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I too found the default correction 5k was producing less than ideal sound, especially for classical music concerts. For the past couple of weeks I changed config 2 to 550k, which produced far richer sound. I had config 1 at 2k. The effect was that some movie dialog was improved at the 2k setting, but not all. I just set the config 1 setting to 200, and will toggle between that and the 550k to see differences.
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post #1283 of 2716 Old 03-02-2014, 02:44 PM
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Hello. Has anyone compared the preamp section of the MRX710 with a Krell Showcase?
The MRX710 would be good paired with ProAc D18?
Thank you.
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post #1284 of 2716 Old 03-02-2014, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

FW 1.1.7?  I only see 1.1.4 on the web site.  While certainly not insignificant, your issues seem to be quite different than what I am seeing.

1.1.7 is the beta FW that Nick had posted about a few pages ago, it is supposed to improve the muting of digital inputs, but I haven't really noticed a difference. I have had the flickering on and off repeated handshake, but I think it was with my PS4, not my ATV or Oppo 93. I also have a Darblet. I'm not sure why it would lock up your Oppo, I haven't had that, but I do get blackouts and colour space errors when I switch activities across multiple devices. Not all the time, but enough to be a nuisance and think there may be something wrong with the HDMI boards in the 510..

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post #1285 of 2716 Old 03-02-2014, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

This is a classic description of what happens if you ask ARC to correct to the higher frequency limit but where the mic is not hearing accurate higher frequency output from the speakers. Typically this happens because either the mic tip was not set at seated ear height, or because the speaker pointing was not accurate, particularly in the vertical direction. Speakers tend to have much more variability in off axis output at higher frequencies, and for many speaker designs the vertical direction is more critical than the horizontal direction.

It's also important to have the ARC mic pointing straight up to get accurate readings.
--Bob

I actually used a small level to make sure my mic was pointed straight up. My centre channel is below my screen about 12 inches from the ground on a stand and tilted up so as to aim towards the mic. The mic tip was at about 33 inches or so off the ground at where my ear would normally be at the MLP.

I also tried to do a "quick" measure of my center channel by putting the mic about 3 1/2 feet away to see how flat it measured. I had put a 6" acoustical 4' x 2' panel on the floor between the mic and centre channel to help reduce reflection from the floor. I am sure I had some reflections but at least there where minimized to some degree. I think it measured fairly flat from that distance telling me that my speaker was fairly flat to start with.

Here is the quick measure of my centre channel from 3 1/2 feet away and mic tip pointed up but mic was lowered so to be in the speaker path:


Here is the quick measure of my centre channel from about 8 feet away at the MLP ear height (again mic fell in speakers path since I have my centre pointed up to achieve this):


Which brings me to a question on speaker placement. What is the rule of thumb to the closest that you can place your front and centre channels to the listener?
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post #1286 of 2716 Old 03-03-2014, 12:58 AM
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sorry if I missed that, what are the levels arc has determined for u, xover settings and what speakers u using?
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post #1287 of 2716 Old 03-03-2014, 05:05 AM
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Which brings me to a question on speaker placement. What is the rule of thumb to the closest that you can place your front and centre channels to the listener?

I know of no guideline that recommends a minimum distance for speaker placement. There are general guidelines, such as placing the left and right speakers and the MLP at the points of an equilateral triangle. I make sure the center is at the same distance as the other two speakers (9 feet in my case). There are other guidelines, like toe in the left and right speakers to point towards the MLP, and to angle the center so it points at the MLP as well. I also re-arranged the positioning slightly so that the distances are at an even foot, since that MRX doesn't accept fractions of a foot. These are all just general guidelines--you should experiment to find what sounds best, and measures flattest.
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post #1288 of 2716 Old 03-03-2014, 05:59 AM
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^ Speakers have different response if you are too close to them -- the "near field" response. I don't know of any Rule of Thumb on minimum speaker distance, but I would think 5 feet is verging on too close. Keeping some distance is particularly important for Subwoofers. Of course if you are viewing video, the fronts should be placed near the image plane of the Display.
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

I know of no guideline that recommends a minimum distance for speaker placement. There are general guidelines, such as placing the left and right speakers and the MLP at the points of an equilateral triangle. I make sure the center is at the same distance as the other two speakers (9 feet in my case). There are other guidelines, like toe in the left and right speakers to point towards the MLP, and to angle the center so it points at the MLP as well. I also re-arranged the positioning slightly so that the distances are at an even foot, since that MRX doesn't accept fractions of a foot. These are all just general guidelines--you should experiment to find what sounds best, and measures flattest.

Exactly - Best practices used to be that the distances between the left and right speakers should be 75% to 100% of the distance from the speaker to the listening position. This corresponds to roughly an 80 to 90 degree angle from MLP to both speakers (90 degrees giving the equilateral). Toe in is a whole other matter, depending on the dispersion characteristics of the drivers. I have found that some speakers can be very sensitive to this, and a few degrees change in toe in can drastically affect the sweet spot. I usually start with speakers facing straight forward, and then toe in a little at a time to judge the effect. Some speakers are even designed with a treble lift "on axis" (straight on), so that the off axis response will be flat, since most dome tweeters have reduced response off axis (one of the reasons why we toe them in). Have fun! smile.gif
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post #1290 of 2716 Old 03-03-2014, 06:42 AM
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I am still having HDMI handshake issues between the 510 and both the Oppo BDP-93 and the AppleTV3. At this point, I think I have an EDID issue with my Sony XBR65X900a display, which is a 4K UHDTV.

Any MRX owners who are also using a 4K display?
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