Anthem MRX Receivers - 310, 510, 710 Owners Thread & Tweaking Guide - Page 96 - AVS Forum
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post #2851 of 3366 Old 08-12-2014, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Nick @ Anthem View Post
So analog source doesn't get processed? (Set accordingly in input setup menu.) Or, so digital source can be played with and without ARC? (Add an input profile identical to the first except with ARC off, a different name, and stereo speaker configuration if applicable.)

With feature requests, it's easier to start by stating needs rather than solutions. Unrelated example but same idea...

Need: Digital-only source played multichannel in main zone and stereo downmix in zone 2 at the same time.

Solution 1: An AVR with DSP for zone 2.

Solution 2: Connect the passthrough optical/coax output of the MRX to a basic AVR using its main zone for the zone 2 speakers.
I didn't know we were submitting feature requests here...you have my attention now! Really glad you are following this.

So your reply has actually mixed two of my gripes with the MRX, which overall is a masterful piece of kit and it makes me happy every time I turn it on. That said...in user story format (software engineer here):

Story 1: As consumer of 5.1 content, I would like the ability to listen to down-mixed content in zone 2 without having to change my source to send the down-mixed version. (I already run a second digital audio source cable as per this limitation but this doesn't work with every source since some of them don't send 2.0 over TOSLink)

Story 2: As a critical listener, I would like the ability to have 2.0 played directly to my stereo mains without any processing in a mode that is distinct (or in addition to) the existing 2 configurations so that I can always have that mode available.

The latter, feature wise, maybe overly prescriptive in terms of implementation because simply having 3 or 4 speaker configs would allow having a 2.0 setup that doesn't conflict with other profiles.

The former, I have been told by support, isn't an option and will never happen (unless I misunderstood their reply).

Thanks for hanging out with us, Nick!
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post #2852 of 3366 Old 08-12-2014, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick @ Anthem View Post
Same. The difference is that if the LF amp is playing loudly enough to be clipping, the HF section isn't affected by it.
Hi Nick - as some of us were speaking of feat requests or biamping lately
AFAIK or understand the given infos correctly the biamp signal is for both channels the very same based on a split after prepro and ARC right before amp section. - however - it might be a neat feature to have a split before ARC and use its spare capabilities for an active xover - I could make use of it.
(although - ppl would just storm support with questions - maybe bad idea )
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post #2853 of 3366 Old 08-12-2014, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by OMRSC
Here's something else I would like to see: the inclusion of a variable "loudness" compensation feature similar to that provided by Yamaha and Mcintosh back in the '70s and '80s.


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Originally Posted by Nick @ Anthem View Post
Or, turn on Dolby Volume and set Leveler to 0. The loudness contour remains and is continually optimized according to input level and playback volume. Loud passage played loudly gets the least amount of contour because it needs it least. Soft passage played at low volume gets the most because it needs it most. Everything else goes between accordingly. This is what sets DSP loudness controls apart from traditional ones.

(I also used to have an 80s Yamaha receiver and like many users was always fussing with the contour amount depending on how softly I was playing music that hour.)

Thanks for the feedback, Nick, but I'm not sure we're discussing the same thing. Let me elaborate.

I've read Anthem's explanations for Dolby Volume and Volume Leveler functions, as well as Dolby's explanations on their website, and it's my understanding that these features primarily concern themselves with reducing wild extremes in volumes between various sources/programs (i.e., Dolby provides relatively equal volumes) while still maintaining high/low frequency balances of the original source material as intended by the sound engineers/producers/etc (at something near reference levels). Is my understanding correct?

I do use Anthem's Dolby features for TV (and, IMO, there should be a "standard" for volume levels for all broadcasters, especially for those annoying commercials), and I find it effective and useful. I'll occasionally use it while watching movies late at night and, again, it works fine. However, and since I'm a 90% "music" guy, I've never tried it for that. Soooo...it appears I need to play around with it a little.

Further, my mention of variable "loudness" compensation (the Yamaha & Mcintosh) dealt specifically with music, and its effects on the tonal balance, not the volume levels (though they are inter-related to some extent and I had total control of the volume). In the "good ole days" of early amps and receivers, most OEMs offered this feature via a push-button or switch...either ON or OFF...and since it was (mostly) a "fixed" amount, there was no degree of "in-between". While I could adequately/enjoyably control the tonality of the sound via the Bass and Treble controls, the inclusion of a potentiometer for loudness compensation provided the variability and control that allowed me to fine-tune my system regardless of overall volume. As I mentioned, this was the feature that convinced me to exchange a Marantz 3800 pre-amp for the Mcintosh C27 (and damn if I don't miss my Mac!).

Understand that I'm not being critical of Anthem in any manner as I couldn't be more pleased with my 310...just that a variable feature would probably interest me greatly should I ever decide to upgrade at some point in the future.

Comments and suggestions are always appreciated...from everyone.

Last edited by OMRSC; 08-12-2014 at 11:48 AM.
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post #2854 of 3366 Old 08-13-2014, 06:43 AM
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Might as well line up and be counted...Loving my 510. An improvement for me would be for finer gradation in the tone controls..Hardly a big deal...but an improvement I would appreciate.

OMRSC...question regarding loudness contour...I seem to remember that you could get similar effect by controlling bass and treble relative to volume...I know this isn't an Anthem particular question...but how did the loudness contour differ from other manual tonal control manipulation? It's been along time since I've played with loudness contour controls...perhaps I don't remember their effects correctly. I do remember my father's older Yamaha receiver, and in my misspent youth, I pretty much had it set full on all the time.! Like I've said before...if my kids had been anything like me, I would've had to kill them.....

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post #2855 of 3366 Old 08-13-2014, 07:48 AM
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I must be going crazy. I swear I saw a post about ARC sampling frequency, but I can't find it now... Anyways, I'm also interested in that, so is ARC working in, at most, 48khz, or 96 like on the higher-end receivers?

2-channel is just multichannel done badly. - Frank Derks
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post #2856 of 3366 Old 08-13-2014, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whodunnit View Post
Might as well line up and be counted...Loving my 510. An improvement for me would be for finer gradation in the tone controls..Hardly a big deal...but an improvement I would appreciate.

OMRSC...question regarding loudness contour...I seem to remember that you could get similar effect by controlling bass and treble relative to volume...I know this isn't an Anthem particular question...but how did the loudness contour differ from other manual tonal control manipulation? It's been along time since I've played with loudness contour controls...perhaps I don't remember their effects correctly. I do remember my father's older Yamaha receiver, and in my misspent youth, I pretty much had it set full on all the time.! Like I've said before...if my kids had been anything like me, I would've had to kill them.....
An observation you made - "An improvement for me would be for finer gradation in the tone controls.." - just about perfectly describes the benefit I heard with the variability I had with the Mac C27. As I mentioned, most Loudness controls were "fixed" in their contours, were either ON or OFF, and while the amount/level of contour did vary with volume, there was no "in-between" adjustment allowing for that "finer gradation". The older, "fixed" types of compensation were adequate (I guess) for low volumes, but I found them overpowering (too much) in the Bass regions with way too much attenuation in the Treble regions once I started listening at elevated volume levels (which was 75% of the time).

As a music guy, I've never been been a "bass-head" per se (even though I enjoy it to a large degree) but was always more into the nuances and detail provided with good treble response in most audio recordings. What the Mac allowed me to do was set the Bass controls where I wanted them (pretty much), run the Trebel a little "hotter" than I liked, and then use the "variability" of the Loudness control to find what amounted to the perfect (or nearly so) balance of both. It didn't take much compensation for me to find what I considered the "perfect" balance.

Just for grins, I dug out the Users Manual for the Mac and it has graphs for every important response curve. I'll pdf that page and send you a message with a more understandable explanation.

The fact that my 310 doesn't have this feature doesn't mean much...I'm still completely stoked with its performance. I can't wait to hear the difference once I run ARC.

Last edited by OMRSC; 08-13-2014 at 11:40 AM.
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post #2857 of 3366 Old 08-13-2014, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Barnahadnagy View Post
I must be going crazy. I swear I saw a post about ARC sampling frequency, but I can't find it now... Anyways, I'm also interested in that, so is ARC working in, at most, 48khz, or 96 like on the higher-end receivers?
Samples at 48khz...but (and I'm sure I'll get flack for this)...I doubt there's any real world audible difference...good for bragging rights though...

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post #2858 of 3366 Old 08-13-2014, 04:15 PM
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Just wanted to report that I received my replacement 710 today and the clipping noise is NOT present. Needless to say I am super happy that has been resolved. I can only conclude it was a faulty unit. Now I just need the rest of my new speakers to show up so I can run ARC.

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post #2859 of 3366 Old 08-13-2014, 04:15 PM
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I was just interested in the technical aspect. As the difference between 48 and 88.2/96 is very small (if any), but ARC is a clearly noticeable improvement, I would take that without question.

2-channel is just multichannel done badly. - Frank Derks
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post #2860 of 3366 Old 08-13-2014, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Barnahadnagy View Post
I was just interested in the technical aspect. As the difference between 48 and 88.2/96 is very small (if any), but ARC is a clearly noticeable improvement, I would take that without question.
Damn! and I was hoping to spark controversy! Oh well...better luck next time....
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post #2861 of 3366 Old 08-13-2014, 07:43 PM
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Just wanted to report that I received my replacement 710 today and the clipping noise is NOT present. Needless to say I am super happy that has been resolved. I can only conclude it was a faulty unit. Now I just need the rest of my new speakers to show up so I can run ARC.
I am looking forward to your report both on the MRX and the ML speakers.

So I read S&V's recent review on the MRX and I am wondering if anyone else has noticed the slight tendency to a bright top end that the reviewer commented on. It was something I noticed last September at CEDIA, which is the only time I have heard the MRX. It was running Paradigm's new Monitor series 7 speakers, and I attributed the "crisp" top end to them at the time.

I have heard also that the Motion series of speakers is ever so slightly bright. When you get everything set up, would you mind commenting on that aspect and whether you think the receiver and speakers are a good match for each other?
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post #2862 of 3366 Old 08-13-2014, 07:59 PM
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I am looking forward to your report both on the MRX and the ML speakers.

So I read S&V's recent review on the MRX and I am wondering if anyone else has noticed the slight tendency to a bright top end that the reviewer commented on. It was something I noticed last September at CEDIA, which is the only time I have heard the MRX. It was running Paradigm's new Monitor series 7 speakers, and I attributed the "crisp" top end to them at the time.

I have heard also that the Motion series of speakers is ever so slightly bright. When you get everything set up, would you mind commenting on that aspect and whether you think the receiver and speakers are a good match for each other?
I would be happy to give you my initial impressions of the MRX / ML combo. First off, let me say that the Anthem is not nearly as bright or edgy as my Pioneer Elite SC-75 was. With the Motions it was very much in your face. The MRX is actually quite a bit more reserved and laid back which is great for the Motion 60s as they can be a bit bright themselves. As a whole, prior to ARC, the combination sounds quite remarkable. I had previously tried a Krell Foundation, Yamaha CX-A5000, and Marantz AV8801, and before all of those I was using a Sherbourn PT-7030. While the MRX may not have all of the bells and whistles of some of those dedicated processors it more than holds its own in the audio quality department. Once I get ARC run next week I will report my findings further, but for now I am quite happy which I am relieved to say.

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post #2863 of 3366 Old 08-13-2014, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by OMRSC View Post
potentiometer for loudness compensation provided the variability and control that allowed me to fine-tune my system regardless of overall volume.
DV does this for you.

There are two components to Dolby Volume - leveling and modeling. The latter has the same goal as traditional loudness compensation (pushbutton or knob type). The difference is that it adapts to program and volume setting*. If leveler is set to 0, the modeling still applies which means you can have loudness compensation without the dynamic range compression. More info:

http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...turn-down-turn

A/B comparisons with DV on/off aren't always easy because some settling time may be needed as DV acquires the nature of the program. As a rough guide, give it 15 seconds of listening the first time you turn it on.

*speaker level calibration figures into this, so if system isn't calibrated to 75 dB SPL, the loudness curve won't be either

The most important noise floor is in your head. Always remember to protect your hearing.
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post #2864 of 3366 Old 08-13-2014, 09:23 PM
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it might be a neat feature to have a split before ARC and use its spare capabilities for an active xover
It would still be up to the user to figure out optimal crossover frequency and slope. Room correction and "automatic speaker designer" have conflicting scope, and since nearly all speakers in HT use a crossover made especially for them, the feature would be on the fringe from the start. Bypassing the internal crossover of a competently designed speaker is not recommended.

In general, every time a button, menu selection, or line of code is added it means more testing and UI complexity. No matter how innocent it seems in the beginning, everything has a cost and the ultimate question is, how many more units would be sold because of it. This is where wish list and reality meet.

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post #2865 of 3366 Old 08-13-2014, 09:37 PM
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I didn't know we were submitting feature requests here
Impromptu. Best to send all inquiries via "contact us" web page as my forum activity is extracurricular and irregular.

re story 1: (side note - our prepros have always done that) With your MRX, I'd say the best thing would be to connect a basic-as-it-gets AVR to the optical or coax output. Whatever comes in to the MRX via optical or coax will go out via optical or coax. If DD-5.1 is coming in and the slave AVR can decode DD-5.1, downmix it, and has ample power for the Z2 speakers, would it solve the immediate problem? Adding DSP to Z2 (not cheap) is something we've discussed internally many times, but the cost vs benefit has crossed it off the wish list consistently.

re story 2: Multichannel source or stereo? I'll guess stereo because downmix is a process. What are the main characteristics of your two existing configurations?

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post #2866 of 3366 Old 08-13-2014, 09:38 PM
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So I just received my Anthem 510 and decided to hook it up tonight. I hooked up all my connections and then ran ARC. After I did that I decided to test out how my system (Paradigm Studio 60's, CC590, and JL Audio Fathom F110) would sound. Well, here comes my problem and was wondering if anyone could help me out. After about 1 min of television, the receiver decides it's had enough and powers itself down. I tried it 10 more times to see if anything changed and it hasn't. I also swapped out power cables because of this and the same problem occurs. Lastly I changed outlets to see if that was the cause, it wasn't. Anyone have any idea what is going on? To say I'm not happy right now would be an understatement.
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post #2867 of 3366 Old 08-13-2014, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Barnahadnagy View Post
When using ARC, should I fiddle around with the phase settings, or should I leave it at 0?

Also Nick do you have any tips where should I "pump" air into the MRX?
After ARC is uploaded, select FM, select a non-station frequency so you get random noise, adjust sub phase until response in crossover region sounds most natural (or have a friend adjust while you're in main chair). At least that's a start... the finishing touch can be listening and making small changes until bass comes into perfect focus.

re cooling, hard to say in absence of the rack and your best bet may be to experiment with the help of an infrared thermometer or temperature probes, or start with the Hot Air books by Tony Kordyban, two entertaining semi-technical non-textbooks on this subject if you have the luxury of spare reading time.

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post #2868 of 3366 Old 08-13-2014, 10:06 PM
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So I just received my Anthem 510 and decided to hook it up tonight....After about 1 min of television, the receiver decides it's had enough and powers itself down. I tried it 10 more times to see if anything changed and it hasn't.
Always start with the basics - check for shorted speaker wire, and contact your dealer or tech support.

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post #2869 of 3366 Old 08-14-2014, 12:48 AM
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Faulty Unit

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Originally Posted by Balthazar2k4 View Post
Just wanted to report that I received my replacement 710 today and the clipping noise is NOT present. Needless to say I am super happy that has been resolved. I can only conclude it was a faulty unit. Now I just need the rest of my new speakers to show up so I can run ARC.
Happy to hear the great news, enjoy
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post #2870 of 3366 Old 08-14-2014, 03:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Nick @ Anthem View Post
DV does this for you.

There are two components to Dolby Volume - leveling and modeling. The latter has the same goal as traditional loudness compensation (pushbutton or knob type). The difference is that it adapts to program and volume setting*. If leveler is set to 0, the modeling still applies which means you can have loudness compensation without the dynamic range compression. More info:

http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...turn-down-turn

A/B comparisons with DV on/off aren't always easy because some settling time may be needed as DV acquires the nature of the program. As a rough guide, give it 15 seconds of listening the first time you turn it on.

*speaker level calibration figures into this, so if system isn't calibrated to 75 dB SPL, the loudness curve won't be either

Thank you for the feedback, Nick, and for your explanation and link to Dolby's implementation and usage. Regarding the S&V link (which was very informative), I've been a subscriber for many years to that mag and its predecessors but don't remember seeing that (and I read the articles cover-to-cover)...which might have been because my previous AVR didn't have those features.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I'm going to play around with Dolby as it pertains to broadcast TV and, to a lesser extent, movies, since these are the two sources where I find volume changes/extremes most annoying. Since I'm already extremely pleased with how my 310 sounds with music (just calibrated Bass Management and non-ARC at the moment), I doubt I'll incorporate Dolby at all.

In any event, thanks for following this thread and for your participation.
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post #2871 of 3366 Old 08-14-2014, 05:09 AM
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re cooling...
Thanks! As for cooling: No rack whatsoever, in a completely enclosed space. That's why I'll add some cooling to it (to not have to keep the door open). From the pictures / data I could find I know the heatsink / tunnel design, the areas at the front and around the transformer. The area under the amp stages however is unknown for me. Physics tells me giving it air from below should work, so I'm rolling with that. That should also give fresh air to the beginning of the heatsink. I may add more vents for fun, one on the right moving air out, and another one moving air in the cabinet.

To precisely ask I'm interested in the following: 1) Are there any tricks to the airflow of the amp section, or from below is ok? 2) What is the function of the grille on the right side behind the tunnel's, at the amp section? Should air be coming out or going in there?

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post #2872 of 3366 Old 08-14-2014, 06:04 AM
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It would still be up to the user to figure out optimal crossover frequency and slope. ..., everything has a cost and the ultimate question is, how many more units would be sold ....
The manual tuning would be the fun of it... combining or makin speaker sets on your own. OK, that doesnt match main MRX customer segment really. To me active xover fiddling would be new too, but perfectly integrating a sub is not that different, so not completely off the moon. Rather sth for pro setup services n geeks. Combine bookshelf and woofer spkrs or various inwalls as fronts as n example. A more flexible setup could make an additional differentiator in costly prepro segments like a new AVM series. OMG did I just ask for a AVM refresh again?pologize Ill keep the MRX for the forseeable future
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post #2873 of 3366 Old 08-14-2014, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Barnahadnagy View Post
Thanks! As for cooling: No rack whatsoever, in a completely enclosed space. That's why I'll add some cooling to it (to not have to keep the door open). From the pictures / data I could find I know the heatsink / tunnel design, the areas at the front and around the transformer. The area under the amp stages however is unknown for me. Physics tells me giving it air from below should work, so I'm rolling with that. That should also give fresh air to the beginning of the heatsink. I may add more vents for fun, one on the right moving air out, and another one moving air in the cabinet.



To precisely ask I'm interested in the following: 1) Are there any tricks to the airflow of the amp section, or from below is ok? 2) What is the function of the grille on the right side behind the tunnel's, at the amp section? Should air be coming out or going in there?



Regards.

Close to the front of the unit it wants airflow left to right from the sides for the amp, and I find the hottest bit at the top rear half where the hdmi boards are and use two 150mm fans ontop sucking hot air from within the unit
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post #2874 of 3366 Old 08-14-2014, 07:07 AM
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Appears that my celebration was premature. Decided to run ARC this morning and guess what? Yep, the noise is back. Looks like ARC is the culprit. Not real sure what to do now. I used the suggested settings in the software, but maybe that is a bad idea. Thoughts anyone?

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post #2875 of 3366 Old 08-14-2014, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Nick @ Anthem View Post
Always start with the basics - check for shorted speaker wire, and contact your dealer or tech support.
Well I got it to work for an hour not being able to go over -30 on the sound. I pushed it up to -25 and that is when it shut itself down again. I just order all new cables to see if that is the problem.
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post #2876 of 3366 Old 08-14-2014, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by TeRRoRiFiC35 View Post
I just order all new cables to see if that is the problem.
Hi TerrorGuy
I doubt speaker cables would be the problem since usually these are not twisted or coaxed ones so shortage inside the cable is not likely. I'd expect problems past the amp either on the connector panel having a few copper strings bent over to the other terminal or same at the speaker, if not so maybe a faulty speaker - or a faulty amp.
You could also just ad speaker by speaker to see if the shut down happens with a specific (speaker/cable) one or just in general with too many attached...
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post #2877 of 3366 Old 08-14-2014, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Balthazar2k4 View Post
Appears that my celebration was premature. Decided to run ARC this morning and guess what? Yep, the noise is back. Looks like ARC is the culprit. Not real sure what to do now. I used the suggested settings in the software, but maybe that is a bad idea. Thoughts anyone?
Obviously I wouldn’t have any technical tips for you but here are some thoughts. FYI, turning off ARC fixes my problem too.

#1 If you’re not confident with your troubleshooting abilities you could hire an expert company to come in and take a look at things. They might just tell you what you already suspect though.

#2 You could try a flat out return.

#3 And last, you could have the dealer come to your home and see for themselves. This option was not available to me but it’s almost like getting options #1 and #2 at the same time. Give them a ride if you have to.
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post #2878 of 3366 Old 08-14-2014, 11:25 AM
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Hi TerrorGuy
I doubt speaker cables would be the problem since usually these are not twisted or coaxed ones so shortage inside the cable is not likely. I'd expect problems past the amp either on the connector panel having a few copper strings bent over to the other terminal or same at the speaker, if not so maybe a faulty speaker - or a faulty amp.
You could also just ad speaker by speaker to see if the shut down happens with a specific (speaker/cable) one or just in general with too many attached...
Thanks for the idea, I'll try that when I get home from work. I do know I accidentally broke a small piece of one of the banana's that I thought wouldn't cause any problems and that might be it. These are the wires I was using: http://www.calabrine.com/collections...-standard-pair
You can see it splits at the tip into 4 pieces, i broke one of those.
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post #2879 of 3366 Old 08-14-2014, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by misterguy View Post
Obviously I wouldn’t have any technical tips for you but here are some thoughts. FYI, turning off ARC fixes my problem too.

#1 If you’re not confident with your troubleshooting abilities you could hire an expert company to come in and take a look at things. They might just tell you what you already suspect though.

#2 You could try a flat out return.

#3 And last, you could have the dealer come to your home and see for themselves. This option was not available to me but it’s almost like getting options #1 and #2 at the same time. Give them a ride if you have to.
Thanks Misterguy. Option #2 has been completed. Best of luck to all with issues.

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post #2880 of 3366 Old 08-14-2014, 01:09 PM
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Buggy Issues

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Originally Posted by Balthazar2k4 View Post
Thanks Misterguy. Option #2 has been completed. Best of luck to all with issues.
Issues, what issues? Anthem is perfect don't you remember
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