What receiver to choose? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 27 Old 11-11-2013, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
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My old Sony receiver has kicked the bucket, it's time to look for new one. The features and options appear to be endless. I'm looking for some advice for what I can get on a budget of about $1000. My wish list of features are as follows, what would you recommend. I have no loyalty to any brand.

Stereo Receiver Wish List:
- 4K Ultra HD upscaling
- 7.2 Channel
- AirPlay compatible
- Stream Internet radio
- Multi-zone feature: different music playlists or videos can be in different rooms at the same time
- Network Ready
- DLNA Certified
- 3D Video Support
- HDMI 1.4 Support
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post #2 of 27 Old 11-12-2013, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
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I believe that I've narrowed it down to 4 receivers, what would you choose.

Denon AVR-X3000
Yamaha RX-A830
Onkyo TX-NR818
Onkyo TX-NR828
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post #3 of 27 Old 11-12-2013, 09:57 AM
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Of the four listed, IMO the TX-NR818 is the best equipped (including pre-outputs and Audyssey MultEQ XT32).

After that, it would be a toss-up between the TX-NR828 and the AVR-X3000 and - all other things being relatively being equal between them - whether you want:
- the Onkyo, which has Audyssey MultEQ (which is good) and pre-outputs; or
- the Denon, which has Audyssey MultEQ XT (which is better) but no pre-outputs.

The RX-A830 also has pre-outputs, but it uses Yamaha's proprietary auto room correction software (YPAO) which, IMO, isn't as good as Audyssey.


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post #4 of 27 Old 11-12-2013, 10:06 AM
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If you are using it for movies the Onkyo 818 is a beast, you will love it.  But if you plan to spend much time listening to music it can get real fatiguing real fast.  I ended up returning my 818 for a Marantz 6007 which sounds great on music, but I am still trying to get dialed in for movies.  I have not heard the others on your list.  The Onkyo does not have analog inputs for 5.1 or 7.1 so you have to use HDMI.  If you have older gear that may not work for you.

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post #5 of 27 Old 11-12-2013, 10:20 AM
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If you have 2 subwoofers, none of the models listed can eq them properly. In that case, I would consider stepping up to the denon AVR-X4000.
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post #6 of 27 Old 11-12-2013, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
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95% of the system use will be for watching movies. I have a powered Bose speaker system, does having a lot of power per channel make a difference for these speakers.

You are right Onkyo 818 is a beast, it's so big it won't even fit in my stereo cabinet.
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post #7 of 27 Old 11-12-2013, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdlklm View Post

.
You are right Onkyo 818 is a beast, it's so big it won't even fit in my stereo cabinet.

If you're putting the receiver inside a cabinet, I would avoid Onkyo. Based on what I've read on this forum, they seem to have a high failure rate when placed inside a cabinet. They don't handle lack of ventilation as well as other brands.
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post #8 of 27 Old 11-12-2013, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by doctor dumas View Post
 

If you are using it for movies the Onkyo 818 is a beast, you will love it.  But if you plan to spend much time listening to music it can get real fatiguing real fast.  I ended up returning my 818 for a Marantz 6007 which sounds great on music, but I am still trying to get dialed in for movies.  I have not heard the others on your list.  The Onkyo does not have analog inputs for 5.1 or 7.1 so you have to use HDMI.  If you have older gear that may not work for you.

I agree with this, I had an Onkyo 809 it was nice for movies but IMO it lacked SQ when it came to music, I didn't find it fatiguing but it lacked something. I replaced it with a Denon and both music and movies sound great. I also have a Marantz 5006 in my living room's 3.1 system. It also sounds great for music but I have not really tried to dial this in for movies so it would be unfair for me to comment on it.

 

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If you have 2 subwoofers, none of the models listed can eq them properly. In that case, I would consider stepping up to the denon AVR-X4000.

This is a great suggestion.

 

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Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post


If you're putting the receiver inside a cabinet, I would avoid Onkyo. Based on what I've read on this forum, they seem to have a high failure rate when placed inside a cabinet. They don't handle lack of ventilation as well as other brands.

I can attest to this first hand, it happened to my friend, twice. Where as I had my 809 in a place with good ventilation and it worked fine.

 

As far as the Yamaha goes I have never heard that particular model but my dad does have two lesser Yamaha models and I have to say after helping him set up his two systems, I think I find Audyssesy to be the better room calibration system (IMO). But, I think Yamaha has very good SQ overall.

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post #9 of 27 Old 11-12-2013, 01:31 PM - Thread Starter
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I really wanted to keep my budget to about $1000, but by the looks of things I'm going to be happier going with the AVR-4000, and it will give you more options for the future.
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post #10 of 27 Old 11-12-2013, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by kdlklm View Post

95% of the system use will be for watching movies. I have a powered Bose speaker system, does having a lot of power per channel make a difference for these speakers.

You are right Onkyo 818 is a beast, it's so big it won't even fit in my stereo cabinet.

The biggest improvement you can make would be to spend way less on an AVR and get new speakers. A Denon X4000 won't make your Bose speakers sound any better. It would be like putting lipstick on a pig if you know what I mean. wink.gif

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post #11 of 27 Old 11-12-2013, 02:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

The biggest improvement you can make would be to spend way less on an AVR and get new speakers. A Denon X4000 won't make your Bose speakers sound any better. It would be like putting lipstick on a pig if you know what I mean. wink.gif

In your opinion where would you rank Bose for sound quality.
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post #12 of 27 Old 11-12-2013, 02:29 PM
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In your opinion where would you rank Bose for sound quality.
Better put your flak jacket on! eek.gifwink.gif

Generally- and politely-speaking, BOSE is not very well-regarded on HT forum sites.


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post #13 of 27 Old 11-12-2013, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by kdlklm View Post

In your opinion where would you rank Bose for sound quality.

See the above post. Bose is a four letter word in more than one way here on this forum (and other forums too).

But don't take it personally. Many of us here have fallen to marketing promises. For example I paid WAY too much for a Def Tech sub that had a lot of marketing specs and promise before coming to my senses and getting a good sub.

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Def Tech SC8000
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post #14 of 27 Old 11-12-2013, 03:25 PM - Thread Starter
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My Bose are quite old and are just about ready to be replaced. What would you recommend.
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post #15 of 27 Old 11-12-2013, 03:35 PM
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I'm in the market for a new receiver, too. Personally, I like the Denon and Marantz systems because of their AirPlay support and Audessey firmware. Denon will give you more bang for the buck, but Marantz receivers look so cool! I think this year's Denon and Marantz systems can play Apple Lossless files via USB and DLNA, which much AV equipment can't do. The downside to Denon and Marantz is that they don't support Wi-Fi.

I trust my ears, rather than marketing, when shopping for equipment. My ears tell me that Bose is overrated and overpriced. Virtually all cube speakers are lacking in mid-bass.

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post #16 of 27 Old 11-12-2013, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdlklm View Post

- 4K Ultra HD upscaling
. . .
- HDMI 1.4 Support

Do you currently have a 4K TV or are you just planning ahead. Next year's receivers are likely to support HDMI 2.0, which is important for true 4K (4096×2160) at faster frame rates.

According to Wikipedia:
Quote:
HDMI 1.4 increases the maximum resolution to 4K × 2K, i.e. 3840×2160 (4K Ultra HD) at 24 Hz/25 Hz/30 Hz or 4096×2160 at 24 Hz (which is a resolution used with digital theaters). . . . HDMI 2.0 was released on September 4, 2013. . . . This allows HDMI 2.0 to support 4K resolution at 60 frames per second (fps).

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post #17 of 27 Old 11-12-2013, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by kdlklm View Post

My Bose are quite old and are just about ready to be replaced. What would you recommend.

For that we would need a budget and room size.

Klipsch RF-62II, RC-500, RS-400, SVS PC12+,
Def Tech SC8000
Harman Kardon AVR 1600
PS3, Apple TV, Sharp 70" Qattron
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post #18 of 27 Old 11-12-2013, 04:29 PM - Thread Starter
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I was planning ahead for the 4k and I did look at the Hdmi 2 specs but I think 1.4 will be fine for what I need. I will probably upgrade in 7 to 10 years. It's going to take 4k a while to get out there so it's more main stream.

I don't really care if it has wifi I have Cat6 throughout the house anywhere.
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post #19 of 27 Old 11-12-2013, 04:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdlklm View Post

My Bose are quite old and are just about ready to be replaced. What would you recommend.

For that we would need a budget and room size.

$2000 to $3000 might be what I would be willing to spend. The room is about 1000 sq ft but not optimal for a sound system, it's got 13 different sides.
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post #20 of 27 Old 11-12-2013, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by kdlklm View Post

$2000 to $3000 might be what I would be willing to spend. The room is about 1000 sq ft but not optimal for a sound system, it's got 13 different sides.

That's a huge room. Factor in a normal 8ft ceiling and it's 8000^3 ft. And all you had/have in there is some Bose speakers? eek.gif

There's a lot to chose from in that price range. I'll mention Klipsch because I'm now a fan. I just upgraded to a Klipsch RF system and it sounds really good for movies, TV and music.

Whatever you do or however much you spend for speakers try to spend at least half on the sub or subs especially important considering the size of your room.

AVS Science(this website) has really good prices on Klipsch (and other speakers) as well as SVS subs and various brands of AVRs. You need to call to get the correct price.

So for a 5.1 setup maybe three RB81s across the front and a pair of RS52s or 62s for the surrounds and a Rythmik FV15HP or SVS PC13 Ultra or a pair of PSA XV15s or similar.

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post #21 of 27 Old 11-12-2013, 04:53 PM - Thread Starter
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That's some good info thanks I will look into that.
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post #22 of 27 Old 11-12-2013, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
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It's been a long time since I have done much research on av equipment. It been lots of fun.
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post #23 of 27 Old 11-12-2013, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post


That's a huge room. Factor in a normal 8ft ceiling and it's 8000^3 ft. And all you had/have in there is some Bose speakers? eek.gif

There's a lot to chose from in that price range. I'll mention Klipsch because I'm now a fan. I just upgraded to a Klipsch RF system and it sounds really good for movies, TV and music.

Whatever you do or however much you spend for speakers try to spend at least half on the sub or subs especially important considering the size of your room.

AVS Science(this website) has really good prices on Klipsch (and other speakers) as well as SVS subs and various brands of AVRs. You need to call to get the correct price.

So for a 5.1 setup maybe three RB81s across the front and a pair of RS52s or 62s for the surrounds and a Rythmik FV15HP or SVS PC13 Ultra or a pair of PSA XV15s or similar.

Kini has some good information here. I agree with it but I would suggest two subs no matter which one you decide to buy because you have such a huge space to pressurize and it will do wonders to smooth out the bass throughout the room. 

 

I recently bought a PSA XV-15 and I have to say I love it. It's a beast. But the Rythmik FV15HP and SVS PC 13 are even more of a beast, but they are also more expensive and if you are going dual subs then you are looking at a lot of money. 

 

Finally, just as a counter point to the Klipsch suggestion, I will add that they are good speakers and a lot of people like them, but there are those who find them to be too bright and fatiguing to listen to. Speakers are something that you really should listen to before you buy. Spend some time trying out different brands of speakers because what sounds great to your ear may sound bad to somebody else and vice versa. 

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That room sounds problematic.You might find it difficult to fill it with music with an even frequency response, no peaks and valleys. I would have originally suggested the Onkyo TX-NR929 but the Denon X4000 does have your Airplay but more importantly it has Audyssey Sub EQ HD which will have separate control over two sub outputs and with that room that will likely be important. But like others have said, I would spend my biggest portion on speakers. With that said, at this point in time I would try to include the lowest end Golden Ear Technology speakers and a lesser AVR right now. Later those smaller speakers will blend nicely with bigger ones from the golden ears of Sandy Gross for all those extra channels. That would be the time to get the great AVR with 11 channels.

I think I've spent your money nicely.

BTW how high IS your ceiling?

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post #25 of 27 Old 11-13-2013, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Parsons View Post

I'm in the market for a new receiver, too. Personally, I like the Denon and Marantz systems because of their AirPlay support and Audessey firmware. Denon will give you more bang for the buck, but Marantz receivers look so cool! I think this year's Denon and Marantz systems can play Apple Lossless files via USB and DLNA, which much AV equipment can't do. The downside to Denon and Marantz is that they don't support Wi-Fi.

I trust my ears, rather than marketing, when shopping for equipment. My ears tell me that Bose is overrated and overpriced. Virtually all cube speakers are lacking in mid-bass.

I wouldn't say I'm on the market quite yet but I do see myself buying a new amp in the next year, so I really need to get up to speed. This is a great thread BTW, with great info. Thanks all.

Ever since I started coming across (Yamaha I think?) AC3 RF demodulator boxes online for dirt cheap, my only reason for wanting/needing a newer Pioneer amp with such feature has disappeared. I'm like the OP who has no brand loyalty whatsoever and is going to make a decision based on needs, value, and of course reliability/testimonials. That Onkyo 818 IS a beast! I searched for a HQ image of the back panel and it lists 8.1A as the power consumption - wow.

So are Denon and Marantz still owned by Philips? So much of my attitude about new amps is biased b/c of my former consumer sales experience from back in early 2000's... I use to sell Marantz once upon a time (I think when the model lineup was the 5200, 6200, 7200 and then 5300, 6300, etc.). From our demo experiences/stress tests in store and the rate of returns due to DOA, failure within warranty, or simply customer returns complaining they weren't "loud" enough, I don't see myself ever spending money on a Marantz. I agree the current lineup LOOKS great; its very reminiscent style of the Marantz receivers from late '90's just before I got into the industry, and from what I heard about those older (pre 6200/6300 lineup) units they were superb. Yamaha is another lineup I couldn't see myself considering again based on my experiences when selling them. We would routinely cook Yamaha receivers in store via speaker switches; they just could not drive anything lower than an 8ohm load. Now I totally realise that I sound like my father, who refuses to ever buy/own/drive a Chrysler product again based on his experiences and recollection from the 1960/70's; I'm sure a lot has changed in 10 years with companies like Marantz, Denon, Yamaha, etc. So its very interesting to hear everybodies experiences. Will be starting to follow threads like this.

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post #26 of 27 Old 11-13-2013, 08:09 AM - Thread Starter
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That room sounds problematic.You might find it difficult to fill it with music with an even frequency response, no peaks and valleys. I would have originally suggested the Onkyo TX-NR929 but the Denon X4000 does have your Airplay but more importantly it has Audyssey Sub EQ HD which will have separate control over two sub outputs and with that room that will likely be important. But like others have said, I would spend my biggest portion on speakers. With that said, at this point in time I would try to include the lowest end Golden Ear Technology speakers and a lesser AVR right now. Later those smaller speakers will blend nicely with bigger ones from the golden ears of Sandy Gross for all those extra channels. That would be the time to get the great AVR with 11 channels.

I think I've spent your money nicely.

BTW how high IS your ceiling?

It has a 12 foot vaulted ceiling.
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post #27 of 27 Old 11-13-2013, 08:45 AM
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I wouldn't say I'm on the market quite yet but I do see myself buying a new amp in the next year, so I really need to get up to speed. This is a great thread BTW, with great info. Thanks all.

Ever since I started coming across (Yamaha I think?) AC3 RF demodulator boxes online for dirt cheap, my only reason for wanting/needing a newer Pioneer amp with such feature has disappeared. I'm like the OP who has no brand loyalty whatsoever and is going to make a decision based on needs, value, and of course reliability/testimonials. That Onkyo 818 IS a beast! I searched for a HQ image of the back panel and it lists 8.1A as the power consumption - wow.

So are Denon and Marantz still owned by Philips? So much of my attitude about new amps is biased b/c of my former consumer sales experience from back in early 2000's... I use to sell Marantz once upon a time (I think when the model lineup was the 5200, 6200, 7200 and then 5300, 6300, etc.). From our demo experiences/stress tests in store and the rate of returns due to DOA, failure within warranty, or simply customer returns complaining they weren't "loud" enough, I don't see myself ever spending money on a Marantz. I agree the current lineup LOOKS great; its very reminiscent style of the Marantz receivers from late '90's just before I got into the industry, and from what I heard about those older (pre 6200/6300 lineup) units they were superb. Yamaha is another lineup I couldn't see myself considering again based on my experiences when selling them. We would routinely cook Yamaha receivers in store via speaker switches; they just could not drive anything lower than an 8ohm load. Now I totally realise that I sound like my father, who refuses to ever buy/own/drive a Chrysler product again based on his experiences and recollection from the 1960/70's; I'm sure a lot has changed in 10 years with companies like Marantz, Denon, Yamaha, etc. So its very interesting to hear everybodies experiences. Will be starting to follow threads like this.

Phillips sold off their stake in D&M Holdings in 2008 so Marantz is no longer associated with Phillips. Right now Marantz and Denon are usually considered reputable based on most posts I have seen here and in other Forums. But there will always be people who have had bad experiences with any brand and will want to stay away from them. Based on a quick look at some other threads, right now it seems it is Onkyo who is suffering with a lot of angry consumers because of their high rate of HDMI failures. 

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