24 Gauge Speaker wire for an Onkyo HT-s7500, 1000 watt system???? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 15 Old 12-06-2013, 08:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys, I recently purchased an Onkyo Theatre system.  A very decent Onkyo receiver with a set of 7.1 speakers.  I am insanely shocked to find 24 gauge wires, some of it being like 50 feet long to the satelites. 

 

i'm not one to bitch about stuff, but this system was NOT cheap.  Hell, even cheap ass speakers come with at least 16 gauge.  I'm not quite sure what to think of this... is this maybe a tell-tale sign of bad quality?  These speakers are being fed over 100 watts each.. how can this thin wire even be safe for the speakers and the Receiver??  We all know that thin wire pushes the components too hard.  IF they cheaped out like hell on the wire... what else are they cheaping out on?  I almost feel like I should be returning this.  Any feedback here would be appreciated.

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post #2 of 15 Old 12-06-2013, 08:45 AM
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I certainly can't comment on the quality of your sound from that system, but 24-gauge wire is certainly not what you want.

I suspect that there was a disconnect between the engineering department and the people who manage the shipping of the products.

In any case i would certainly get some 14-gauge wire very quickly.

Monoprice has 100 feet of their 14-gauge copper speaker wire for $25. Monoprice stock #2791.

The small wire does not "push the components too hard". That is nonsense.

What is does do is reduce the voltage at the speakers due to voltage drop in the wires. This lowers the volume, but since more current is required at lower frequencies (which means even more voltage drop at the lower frequencies), it especially reduces low-frequency response.

At normal volumes, you are NOT supplying the speakers with 100 watts each. Even with it turned up loud, they are probably using an average power of from 5 to 20 watts. An instantaneous PEAK might get near 100 watts for a few milliseconds.
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post #3 of 15 Old 12-06-2013, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

I certainly can't comment on the quality of your sound from that system, but 24-gauge wire is certainly not what you want.

I suspect that there was a disconnect between the engineering department and the people who manage the shipping of the products.

In any case i would certainly get some 14-gauge wire very quickly.

Monoprice has 100 feet of their copper speaker wire for $25. Monoprice stock #2791.
 
Thanks for the reply... Clearly no miscommunication, wires were neatly packed with everything else, color coated with the speakers... It makes me feel like this system, supposedly worth near 1 grand may have had some REALLY nasty corners cut, to the point where I feel like I should question the rest of the system... and return it.  It feels like... you buy a mercedes, but the seats are made of of fake Vinyl instead of leather...
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post #4 of 15 Old 12-06-2013, 09:06 AM
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Your system is certainly not quite the cheapest thing in town, but to buy a "Mercedes"-quality system, you would need to get a Cambridge Audio 651R receiver ($2000), a 5-speaker system costing around $3000-6000 dollars, and an OPPO BDP-105 player ($1200).

Your system is more like a base-model Ford Fiesta with a couple of options added.

My 2-channel stereo has well over $20,000 in it, and I have friends that have top-quality pro gear that cost 3 to 5 times as much.

If I were you I would get the 14-gauge speaker wire and enjoy what you have.

Happy holidays!
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post #5 of 15 Old 12-06-2013, 09:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

I certainly can't comment on the quality of your sound from that system, but 24-gauge wire is certainly not what you want.

I suspect that there was a disconnect between the engineering department and the people who manage the shipping of the products.

In any case i would certainly get some 14-gauge wire very quickly.

Monoprice has 100 feet of their 14-gauge copper speaker wire for $25. Monoprice stock #2791.

The small wire does not "push the components too hard". That is nonsense.

What is does do is reduce the voltage at the speakers due to voltage drop in the wires. This lowers the volume, but since more current is required at lower frequencies (which means even more voltage drop at the lower frequencies), it especially reduces low-frequency response.

At normal volumes, you are NOT supplying the speakers with 100 watts each. Even with it turned up loud, they are probably using an average power of from 5 to 20 watts. An instantaneous PEAK might get near 100 watts for a few milliseconds.

 

OK, I thought that only did it eat up voltage, I thought it caused strain due to heat build up from the thin wires.  Well, according to the docs, RMS rating is 87 RMS per channel... 135 peak.  Man, jsut makes me feel like either they're hiding something the system can't handle, or they are cheap as hell. 

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post #6 of 15 Old 12-06-2013, 09:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

Your system is certainly not quite the cheapest thing in town, but to buy a "Mercedes"-quality system, you would need to get a Cambridge Audio 651R receiver ($2000), a 5-speaker system costing around $3000-6000 dollars, and an OPPO BDP-105 player ($1200).

Your system is more like a base-model Ford Fiesta with a couple of options added.

My 2-channel stereo has well over $20,000 in it, and I have friends that have top-quality pro gear that cost 3 to 5 times as much.

Well, feels like this ford fiesta has wagon wheels and plastic wrappers for windows, 

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post #7 of 15 Old 12-06-2013, 09:09 AM
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Since you bought it from Onkyo as a system, they probably have the speakers and components fairly well matched.

Where that stupid speaker wire sneaked in is anyone's guess...lol.

I suspect you will be satisfied once you get the proper wire.

Monoprice.com

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post #8 of 15 Old 12-06-2013, 09:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Just hooked up two speakers and a sub up and no way in hell in this pumping out the mentionned power...  I'm gonna test this out right now... I installed quite a few badass car stereos and have a bit of 8 gauge oxygen free copper speaker wire left.  Let's see what happens. 

 

If I feel satisfied after, i'll take your suggestion and buy a couple rolls of that stuff

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post #9 of 15 Old 12-06-2013, 09:32 AM
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Those skinny tower speakers are not going to put out huge amounts of power no matter what you do.

Your expectations may not be realistic in that respect.

The Sensitivity of those front speakers is given as 79 db per watt; that is the lowest sensitivity I have EVER seen on any speaker in 50 years. IMO that really really sucks.

A typical speaker has a sensitivity of somewhere between 88 and 92 DB per watt.

Since the scale is logarthmic, that means these speakers take 10 TIMES as much power as a typical speaker to produce the same sound level (and then they give you tiny wires to supply all that power; something is wrong with this picture).

That low sensitivity would be enough to make me want to get rid of the whole system, if I had the option to return it.

I don't want to throw a wrench in your works, but that is really an unusual thing; to have speakers that will take so much power to drive them to barely usable levels.

I see that that system is no longer available at Amazon or some other websites. I wonder if Onkyo isn't backing off from a flawed design and discontinuing it.

I think that is probably the case.
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post #10 of 15 Old 12-06-2013, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SUPWECHARGE View Post

Just hooked up two speakers and a sub up and no way in hell in this pumping out the mentionned power...  I'm gonna test this out right now... I installed quite a few badass car stereos and have a bit of 8 gauge oxygen free copper speaker wire left.  Let's see what happens. 

If I feel satisfied after, i'll take your suggestion and buy a couple rolls of that stuff

That 8ga wire isn't really going to make a big difference - open up one of those speakers and you'll find (GASP) 24ga wire from the terminal block to the crossovers - then more 24ga running to the respective drivers. Save your money and get some 16ga wire. I doubt you can even shoehorn that 8ga wire onto the speaker's spring loaded terminals. Usual wire gage in these HTIB setups is 16-18ga wire. Are you sure you've been supplied with 24ga? As measured with a wire gage?

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post #11 of 15 Old 12-06-2013, 10:10 AM
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I hope you can return that Onkyo system and get a refund. I certainly recommend doing so.

Here's a recommendation for a system that will IMO be 1000% better:

1) A Harman-Kardon HKTS30 5.1 speaker system (around $700)

2) A Harman-Kardon AVR 2600 receiver ($300-Amazon)
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post #12 of 15 Old 12-06-2013, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Woooooww.... ok... ****ing insane... So... earlier I hooked up these old JVC SK303's to the receiver with the ****** supplied wire, and hardly got anything out of them.  Hooked up the 8 gauge wire, and holy ****!!!!!!  at least 5 times the power!!!  But as mentionned with one of the posters, the speakers that came with the system hardly had any change.  So the Receiver is great, pumps out great amounts of power, but the speaker system is ****. 

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post #13 of 15 Old 12-06-2013, 10:13 AM
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Yes; as I said in my post above, the sensitivity rating of those speakers is the lowest I have EVER seen in 50 years.

The speaker are indeed ****...lol.

That is crazy bad bad BAD.
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post #14 of 15 Old 12-06-2013, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Hmm... been doing lots of reading.  turns out this amp pumps 80watts RMS @8ohms, and 130@6ohms (speakers are 6ohms).  Is it possible they purposely reduced the sensitivity and wirring to avoid blowing the speakers, while still providing a strong amp?  Thinking it over... 130 watts in those small speakers... a bit excessive,,,

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post #15 of 15 Old 12-06-2013, 01:08 PM
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This is a generalization but the smaller the speakers the lower the efficiency.

When all else fails - RTFM!

♫♫♫ Two Channel Rules! ♫♫♫

GO SEAHAWKS!!!
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