AVR Recommendation - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 8 Old 12-06-2013, 07:03 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
ravennevar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hello All!

I am looking to purchase an AVR to replace a 10-year-old Sony which was not the best to start with. I need it to have networking (ethernet at least, wi-fi a plus) and to be able to power a pair of Polk RTiA7 speakers which I've had for almost 2 years and have really not used since my receiver cannot power them appropriately plus it does not have networking or HDMI. These speakers handle up to 300W, so I was thinking about bi-amping them with the new AVR to get a good 200W in them. I want to be able to watch my movies and play my music using my current 2.1 setup with bi-amped front speakers. I do not foresee adding more speakers in the near future but would like to at least have a receiver capable of handling a 5.1 setup, including bi-amped front speakers. The capability of playing FLAC lossless format is also a requirement. I do have an HTPC running OpenELEC (XBMC) from which I play my movies. I still have not used it to play music since it requires my TV to be on to serve as a pass-through device due to the lack of appropriate receiver connections. I do not know how having this HTPC might change the selection of an AVR, especially when playing music directly from my NAS or from the NAS through the HTPC.

Any suggestions are welcome. I thought of the Denon AVR-x4000 or the Yamaha RX-A2020 (2012) but do not know if I am overdoing it or if I can get a setup that would do the same or better at a lower cost. That's why I am turning to you, the pros!

Thanks!
ravennevar is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 8 Old 12-07-2013, 04:21 AM
585-645-1006
 
jdsmoothie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 43,095
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 381 Post(s)
Liked: 1333
A lower cost AVR may meet your requirements as well although note that using the "passive bi-amp" feature on the AVR is neither going to double the power nor likely provide any improved audio benefit. If you want more power, you'll need to purchase an AVR with pre-outs and a more robust external amp (eg. EMOTIVA XPA-2, XPA-3, or XPA-5). In the Denon line the X4000 is the lowest model with pre-outs while with Yamaha, the RX-830 is the lowest model with pre-outs.

---------------------------------
"JD" – jd@avscience.com ; shop.avscience.com ; 585-645-1006, AVScience - AVSForum sponsor for 15 years  
Mon - Fri: 8am – 8pm EST (Sat/Sun too, will return call if I don't pick up)
Call for pricing on Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Onkyo, Klipsch, Def Tech, Oppo, Parasound 
** Think the AVR is defective?  Reset the microprocessor 4-5 times. 
jdsmoothie is online now  
post #3 of 8 Old 12-07-2013, 05:08 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
arnyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Grosse Pointe Woods, MI
Posts: 13,891
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 447 Post(s)
Liked: 1062
Quote:
Originally Posted by ravennevar View Post

Hello All!

I am looking to purchase an AVR to replace a 10-year-old Sony which was not the best to start with. I need it to have networking (ethernet at least, wi-fi a plus) it does not have networking or HDMI.

So far so good.

I have to admit that I have an AVR with a network receiver that I haven't even hooked up to my LAN because I have a similar feature in my BD player, so this may not be such a high priority.

Having an AVR with HDMI is a good thing if you want the AVR to be the centerpiece of your system, but you may have options in that area if only want to do 2.x multichannel and your TV has audio outputs.
Quote:
...be able to power a pair of Polk RTiA7 speakers which I've had for almost 2 years and have really not used since my receiver cannot power them appropriately

How do you know that you can't properly power those RTiA7's?

Comparing numbers on spec sheets doesn't answer that question accurately because spec sheets don't include some important influences like room acoustics, listening differences, speaker efficiency, and your actual preferences.

In reality amplifiers are more like water heaters. How do you know that your water heater is too small? Well, if you run out of hot water with any frequency, then your water heater is too small. The same applies to amplifiers. If you run out of power with any frequency, your amplifier is too small.

How do you know that your amplifier is running out of power? The answer is that an amplifier that is running out of power clips and makes some fairly distinct nasty sounds.

If your system sounds thin or harsh, the problem can easily not be about amplifier power. It could be about your system's apparent lack of a good subwoofer which oh, by the way offloads the system power needs from the AVR. It could be about room acoustics. It could be about system optimization by which I mean automated system tuning using features like Audyssey, MCACC, or YPAO.
Quote:
These speakers handle up to 300W, so I was thinking about bi-amping them with the new AVR to get a good 200W in them.

Biamp how? If you do active biamping that means re-engineering speakers which is a ton of skilled work that you probably don't want to invest your life in. If you do passive biamping you step into a big controversy which has fueled such aggravated controversy that some long term members appeared to be (hopefully) temporarily sidelined. Pardon me if I say that I don't want to go there without more reliable evidence than I have right now, but am gathering. But rule of thumb: if there is a heated controversy you probably don't want to stake your life on the issue.
Quote:
I want to be able to watch my movies and play my music using my current 2.1 setup with bi-amped front speakers. I do not foresee adding more speakers in the near future but would like to at least have a receiver capable of handling a 5.1 setup, including bi-amped front speakers. The capability of playing FLAC lossless format is also a requirement. I do have an HTPC running OpenELEC (XBMC) from which I play my movies. I still have not used it to play music since it requires my TV to be on to serve as a pass-through device due to the lack of appropriate receiver connections. I do not know how having this HTPC might change the selection of an AVR, especially when playing music directly from my NAS or from the NAS through the HTPC.

I'm a PC guy and I have no problems with putting an AVR into the system, but I don't know why you want to bypass the flexibility of the PC as a music player.

Most PCs either have coax or optical digital outputs that can be routed to an AVR to get multichannel audio without relying on HDMI. There are pluses on both sides of the issue, but I can't tell how they apply to your situation with more details.
arnyk is online now  
post #4 of 8 Old 12-07-2013, 06:41 AM
AVS Special Member
 
commsysman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,209
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Liked: 244
The sensitivity of those Polk speakers is 89 db per watt.

This means that one watt of power will produce an 89 dbA sound level one meter from those speakers. This is quite loud.

10 watts will produce 99 dbA, which is very very loud. Your current receiver has plenty of POWER for those speakers, but its sound quality is likely to be poor IMO.

Any amplifier with a power rating of 50 watts per channel or more is more than adequate to drive those speakers well. A larger amplifier would be of no particular use and a waste of money.

Bi-amping is only required for much larger speakers with low sensitivity. It would be a waste of time for your efficient speakers.

I suggest that you look at the Harman-Kardon AVR2650 and 2700, which have the features you want and plenty of power for your speakers (and 5 speakers in the future if you go to a 5.1 setup).

Harman-Kardon has far better sound quality than your Sony IMO, and you should be very pleased with either of those units.
commsysman is offline  
post #5 of 8 Old 12-07-2013, 10:44 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
ravennevar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thank you all for your replies. I know about the controversy of "passive bi-amp" so let's just say that this is not a requirement, but an added bonus, since you could most likely assign those speaker outputs to other areas. I know that by using "passive bi-amp" you do not double the output wattage, however, do you get a decent increase in output wattage when bi-amping with discrete amplifiers per channel? Or is this just not realistic or true?

In terms of my current Sony receiver (STR-DE895) and RTiA7 speakers, I say that the receiver cannot handle the speakers because to me they sound too soft, like underpowered. It may be the acoustics and size of the room, but with the tiny speakers that came with this receiver the sound was more filling and I rarely increased the volume of the receiver to 40/100 or 50/100, whereas now I can keep going up to 80 or more and it is still bland. Independent of this, I still need to replace this receiver as it does not satisfy my connectivity needs (HDMI, LAN, etc.).

The Denon AVR-X4000 sounds enticing, but most likely has features that I may never use. The Harman-Kardon looks good too. Again, thank you for your time and suggestions. I welcome any other recommendations.
ravennevar is offline  
post #6 of 8 Old 12-08-2013, 06:00 AM
585-645-1006
 
jdsmoothie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 43,095
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 381 Post(s)
Liked: 1333
Quote:
Originally Posted by ravennevar View Post

Thank you all for your replies. I know about the controversy of "passive bi-amp" so let's just say that this is not a requirement, but an added bonus, since you could most likely assign those speaker outputs to other areas. I know that by using "passive bi-amp" you do not double the output wattage, however, do you get a decent increase in output wattage when bi-amping with discrete amplifiers per channel? Or is this just not realistic or true?

If you are referring to the on board amps, likely little to none.

---------------------------------
"JD" – jd@avscience.com ; shop.avscience.com ; 585-645-1006, AVScience - AVSForum sponsor for 15 years  
Mon - Fri: 8am – 8pm EST (Sat/Sun too, will return call if I don't pick up)
Call for pricing on Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Onkyo, Klipsch, Def Tech, Oppo, Parasound 
** Think the AVR is defective?  Reset the microprocessor 4-5 times. 
jdsmoothie is online now  
post #7 of 8 Old 12-08-2013, 07:10 AM
FMW
AVS Special Member
 
FMW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,569
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 137 Post(s)
Liked: 643
Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post


10 watts will produce 99 dbA, which is very very loud. Your current receiver has plenty of POWER for those speakers, but its sound quality is likely to be poor IMO.

What caused you to develop that opinion?
FMW is online now  
post #8 of 8 Old 12-08-2013, 07:42 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
arnyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Grosse Pointe Woods, MI
Posts: 13,891
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 447 Post(s)
Liked: 1062
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post


10 watts will produce 99 dbA, which is very very loud. Your current receiver has plenty of POWER for those speakers, but its sound quality is likely to be poor IMO.

What caused you to develop that opinion?

No Audyssey! ;-)
arnyk is online now  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Tags
Polk Audio Rti A7 Floorstanding Speaker , Denon Avr X4000 7 2 Channel Home Theater Receiver , Yamaha Rx A2020 9 2 Channel Network Aventage Av Receiver , Emotiva Xpa 2 Stereo Power Amplifier , Emotiva Xpa 3 Amplifier , Emotiva Xpa 5 5 Channel Power Amplifier , Yamaha Rx A830 7 2 Channel Network Aventage Home Theater Receiver , Harman Kardon Avr 2650 Audio Video Receiver
Gear in this thread

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off