Overwhelmed at choosing a new receiver - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 31 Old 12-30-2013, 07:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Out of haste I sold my Denon 1910 about a month ago with plans to go with a soundbar, but after much debate decided against it. Now I am trying to choose a new avr. I have been completely obsessed the last few weeks trying to find the "perfect" new receiver and am starting to go out of my mind so I ask for help. My setup consists of a panasonic 60st60 plasma, fat ps3, and direct tv genie. My primary use is movies and tv with occasional music. My speakers are Kef Q300 for L and R and a Q600 center. I will eventually add a sub and possibly in ceiling speakers for use as surrounds. My living room is roughly 16' by 13' and opens to the kitchen and a lower family room on the right side. I would like the ability to have something capable of two zones so I can add outdoor speakers at a later date. Airplay would be fairly important as we are an apple family, iphones, imac, and ipad, but doesn't have to have wifi, have an apple airport extreme currently not being used that I could use as an extender. I took today off so that I could spend some time auditioning receivers and it turned out to be a complete waste of time. I first went to a local, 45 miles away, store that carries my speakers as well as yamaha and onkyo receivers hoping to be able to listen to my setup. The sales guy was completely rude and said it would take to long to hook up the kefs to the receivers, or any speakers for that matter as they were reorganizing their rooms so I left without getting to listen to anything. Down the street from this store was a Magnolia store that was almost as bad, I actually stood around for 25 minutes waiting for help until I finally just walked out.

I have no brand loyalty just looking for a good receiver that can push my speakers, they are rated at 87db so not super efficient. I was never real happy with the Denon that I had, always felt that it was lacking power. My budget is up to $1k. Sorry for the long post, but I am at my wit's end and for the sanity of my wife as well as myself I ask for input.
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post #2 of 31 Old 12-30-2013, 09:00 PM
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With your budget, I would be looking at brands such as NAD, Cambridge Audio, Anthem, perhaps Emotiva, and the like (I'm sure there are others worth a look).

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post #3 of 31 Old 12-30-2013, 09:16 PM
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Also may be able to get a Denon X4000 in that range. Audyssey XT32 would help in that setup. Give the guys here at the AVS Store a call or pm.
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post #4 of 31 Old 12-30-2013, 09:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the suggestions, I have been looking at the x4000.
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post #5 of 31 Old 12-30-2013, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 864runner View Post

Thanks for the suggestions, I have been looking at the x4000.

The X4000 would be an excellent choice due to all your Apple gear. The NAD would also be one to look into. That NAD T758 is nice but is not as Apple friendly out of the box as the X4000. With the Airport Express it may also work for that duty. Plenty of pure rated power on the 758. Get that sub ASAP to really liven up movies and music. Good luck.
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post #6 of 31 Old 12-31-2013, 03:06 AM
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Unless the 1910 was set to max volume and your speakers were clipping .. it likely wasn't "lacking power". I would suggest any of the Denon "X" series models to include the X2000, X3000, or X4000 as they are all 7CH models that can do 5.1 in the main zone and Zone 2 as well. They also feature a more advanced version of Audyssey than just the MultEQ used on the 1910. You can review post #2 of the Denon E/X Owner's thread linked below to get a better idea of the various features gained as you go up from the X2000 to the X4000.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1465528/the-official-2013-denon-e-series-x-series-avr-model-owners-thread-faq/0_100#post_23134186

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post #7 of 31 Old 12-31-2013, 06:43 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm sure you're right and the 1910 wasn't lacking power, but that's how it felt, lacking a crisp and clear sound as it all felt really muddled. I know the speakers aren't the issue as I auditioned them on multiple occasions and thoroughly enjoyed the mostly full range they provide. I was reading about the multieq xt32 on the x4000 and feel it could help a lot in my particular room.
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post #8 of 31 Old 12-31-2013, 07:00 AM
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It's important to note that the room dynamics account for 50% of the audio quality such that the room you "auditioned" the speakers in is likely very different from your own room.

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post #9 of 31 Old 12-31-2013, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 864runner View Post

I'm sure you're right and the 1910 wasn't lacking power, but that's how it felt, lacking a crisp and clear sound as it all felt really muddled. I know the speakers aren't the issue as I auditioned them on multiple occasions and thoroughly enjoyed the mostly full range they provide. I was reading about the multieq xt32 on the x4000 and feel it could help a lot in my particular room.

NAD and Cambridge Audio have crappy room correction so look at other options.
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post #10 of 31 Old 12-31-2013, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Badouri View Post

NAD and Cambridge Audio have crappy room correction so look at other options.

NAD uses Audyssey and if I read correctly from the Cambridge owners thread so do they. The NAD T758 uses Multi-EQ and their own version licensed by Audyseey called EARS. Not exactly sure of the versions of Audyseey on the Cambridge models. But it would seem that as with other brands it would also be a version higher as you go up the model.
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post #11 of 31 Old 12-31-2013, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom52 View Post

NAD uses Audyssey and if I read correctly from the Cambridge owners thread so do they. The NAD T758 uses Multi-EQ and their own version licensed by Audyseey called EARS. Not exactly sure of the versions of Audyseey on the Cambridge models. But it would seem that as with other brands it would also be a version higher as you go up the model.

MultEQ XT on a 3000$ receiver! Audyssey 2EQ on the Cambridge Audio Azur 751R!

http://www.audyssey.com/technologies/multeq/flavors

EARS: http://nadelectronics.com/articles/Some-NAD-Technical-Features
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post #12 of 31 Old 12-31-2013, 11:16 AM
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There's more to life than audyssey. For the mass consumer, it's great but it's not the only factor for choosing a receiver.
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post #13 of 31 Old 12-31-2013, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psychobrew View Post

There's more to life than audyssey. For the mass consumer, it's great but it's not the only factor for choosing a receiver.

Amen. I've lived perfectly happily all of my life without Audyssey.
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post #14 of 31 Old 01-01-2014, 02:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psychobrew View Post

There's more to life than audyssey. For the mass consumer, it's great but it's not the only factor for choosing a receiver.

The mass consumer at the very least which likely makes up 95% of all buyers ... so very much an important feature to be sure especially for ease of setup for better quality audio. smile.gif

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post #15 of 31 Old 01-01-2014, 02:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The mass consumer at the very least which likely makes up 95% of all buyers ... so very much an important feature to be sure especially for ease of setup for better quality audio. smile.gif

The point is that other manufacturers' room calibration routines also provide ease of setup for better quality audio.
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post #16 of 31 Old 01-01-2014, 04:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The mass consumer at the very least which likely makes up 95% of all buyers ... so very much an important feature to be sure especially for ease of setup for better quality audio. smile.gif

The point is that other manufacturers' room calibration routines also provide ease of setup for better quality audio.
Exactly as you're saying FMW smile.gif
For a good read: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1508694/should-we-be-recommending-audyssey-so-much

It'a not that YPAO, MCACC or others are not working.
Yes Audyssey XT32 has sub eq, but that's not everything, and if you need sub eq, external or internal eq inside the subwoofer itself is proven to be better in many occasions.

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post #17 of 31 Old 01-01-2014, 06:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post

The point is that other manufacturers' room calibration routines also provide ease of setup for better quality audio.

The point is that an auto room EQ of any flavor is better than a manual EQ by the consumer and exactly why it should be a primary factor in choosing an AVR.

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post #18 of 31 Old 01-01-2014, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Prietz0r View Post

Yes Audyssey XT32 has sub eq, but that's not everything, and if you need sub eq, external or internal eq inside the subwoofer itself is proven to be better in many occasions.

True, but I find frequencies below 80hz is where most rooms have issues so EQ on the sub is important IMO. However, this can be accomplished with a MiniDSP or comparable product. Yamaha's YPAO will also EQ the sub in their models 2xxx and up.

To answer the OP's original question, I like Denon and Yamaha receivers myself, but wouldn't discount an Emotiva setup unless you need networking and Airplay. Another line worth a look are the Anthem MRX receivers.
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post #19 of 31 Old 01-01-2014, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Prietz0r View Post

Exactly as you're saying FMW smile.gif
For a good read: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1508694/should-we-be-recommending-audyssey-so-much

It'a not that YPAO, MCACC or others are not working.
Yes Audyssey XT32 has sub eq, but that's not everything, and if you need sub eq, external or internal eq inside the subwoofer itself is proven to be better in many occasions.

Actually no ... Audyssey Sub EQ HT is a separate and distinct feature (Onkyo 818 and 929 both have XT32 but don't have Sub EQ HT) and has nothing to do with XT32 as it could be added to other models using lesser versions of Audyssey if the mfr's chose to add the feature to those models as well.

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post #20 of 31 Old 01-01-2014, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The mass consumer at the very least which likely makes up 95% of all buyers ... so very much an important feature to be sure especially for ease of setup for better quality audio. smile.gif

Good feature, but there are still much more important features that are often ignored with modern day receivers. The basics, for one.

Give me good, strong amps (every fiber of my body screams at me to run away from a receiver that advertises wattage at 1khz and 1% THD). Give me rock solid reliability (no handshake issues, no issues with HDMI boards or channels that stop working). Give me a product that was designed with the "do no harm" to the audio signal philosophy. When all that is done, we can start looking at extras such as room correction.

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post #21 of 31 Old 01-01-2014, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The mass consumer at the very least which likely makes up 95% of all buyers ... so very much an important feature to be sure especially for ease of setup for better quality audio. smile.gif

Don't think I've ever disagreed with anything you've posted. But IMO probably most of the buyers of AVR's aren't as fervent as we are here and other forums like this. Most probably don't know these AVR's have such a thing as REQ on their equipment and if they do have very little knowledge on how to setup properly or even go to the trouble. If they do set it up improperly(easy to do in some cases) and it sounds bad they either turn it off or say their AVR sounds like crap. They either live with it or return and try something else. Most aren't the sticklers we are. JMHO. No data of anything to back it up.
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post #22 of 31 Old 01-01-2014, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
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I have enjoyed reading everybody's responses and opinions and feel that everyone's points are valid. Obviously I am far from an audiophile expert but I do want the best performance and sq that I am able to achieve and this is where a top notch room calibration software benefits me but like another poster mentioned I don't want to give up quality of a receiver just because it has superior room eq, like buying an onkyo for instance. They have loads of power and features at better pricing but also with the likelihood of hdmi board failure.

One more question. How important and necessary is video quality in a receiver. My gut tells me that my ps3 or my plasma tv would be far better in video quality than a sub $1k receiver, but I may be wrong. Essentially should this aspect of a receiver be low on the "what to look for" list?
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post #23 of 31 Old 01-01-2014, 11:00 AM
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With your Panasonic I feel it should be low on your list. Have you looked at Marantz 5008?
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post #24 of 31 Old 01-01-2014, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
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I have looked at and read a lot about the marantz. I really like it and I feel the form factor may go over better with my wife. I actually just saw my local bb has a sr6008 open box for $999.
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post #25 of 31 Old 01-01-2014, 11:16 AM
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Sounds a little high to me. How was it used in the store, is everything for it there. Too many questions for that price. PM or call jdsmoothie or others here at the AVS Store for a NIB price on it and others on your list. You may be surprised with the prices.
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post #26 of 31 Old 01-01-2014, 11:18 AM
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If you don't want to go for one of the high end brands, Marantz is probably the best choice.

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post #27 of 31 Old 01-01-2014, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
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I didn't look at it in person, it was listed on their website. I've kind of been waiting to see if these receivers, marantz, denon, and yamaha, are gonna go on sale now that we are into the new year.
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Sounds a little high to me. How was it used in the store, is everything for it there. Too many questions for that price. PM or call jdsmoothie or others here at the AVS Store for a NIB price on it and others on your list. You may be surprised with the prices.
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post #28 of 31 Old 01-01-2014, 01:32 PM
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Misunderstood what I meant I think. The problem sometimes with open box items is you don't know how they were used. Sometimes there are also things needed such as remotes, cal. mikes, or other things missing. Then you get to purchase those over the "cost savings". Not worth it to me. Also as for the sales those will really begin to show up when new models hit the shelves or announced.
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post #29 of 31 Old 01-01-2014, 06:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah I get what you're saying. I went and looked at it, it was a floor model and they were missing the remote and setup mic, definitely not a good deal. I did finally get the chance to hear the x2000, rx-a830, sr5008, and an sc-71. I don't know how well they could actually be compared though given no room correction had been run, but given what I had there the marantz sounded fantastic! Even my wife felt it put out a better sound, better to us meaning crisp and clear dialogue and not overwhelming. Unfortunately, this store, bb, doesn't sell kef speakers so I had them paired to similar size b&w 685, even though I know their sound is different, but that's what I had to work with.
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post #30 of 31 Old 01-01-2014, 06:15 PM
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It might be worth waiting till after CES 2014. The newly announced products might help drive down current models and put things that were out of your budget back in.
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