2 way Receiver - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 19 Old 01-11-2014, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
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My brother just bought a speaker that can do 2-way sound meaning left and right both have 4 wires (2+, 2-) areas.

However, The surround sound unit does not have 2 way left and right differentiation and he has to use this metal plate to string the same signal to the top and bottom speakers.

Anyways, i have pretty decent 2 way front and left speakers. The question is are there any receivers that can accommodate my need?
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post #2 of 19 Old 01-11-2014, 07:48 PM
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Huh? Perhaps you mean "bi-amp" and "bi-wire" posts?

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post #3 of 19 Old 01-11-2014, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by campdude View Post

My brother just bought a speaker that can do 2-way sound meaning left and right both have 4 wires (2+, 2-) areas.

Do these speakers have a make and model?
Quote:
However, The surround sound unit does not have 2 way left and right differentiation and he has to use this metal plate to string the same signal to the top and bottom speakers.

Does this surround sound unit have a make and model?
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post #4 of 19 Old 01-14-2014, 10:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I dont know the exact model of the receiver that my brother has. The speakers were bought separate.

That shouldnt be an issue. Its not the question. Alright... I'll try to explain it again.

On low end speakers there is only one connection on the back of the speaker. Positive and Negative.

However, If you have left and right speakers that contain 4 connections on the back of the speaker it has actually more than one left and right speaker. However, the bottom connection is usually for bass frequency and the top connection is for more treble frequencies.

So its like a speaker tower. However, its really just designed to be a Left and Right speaker it just needs a separation of frequencies.

Yes I just Google bi-am and bi-wire posts.


My current stereo separates the bi-amp posts (4 wires).

Sorry if I dont know all the correct terminology, Now that i know its called Bi-amp wires maybe i can find a receiver that does that.

If two wires go to all four posts then the same information is sent to treble as bass.

Just wondering if there is a receiver that separates it, that was my question.
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post #5 of 19 Old 01-14-2014, 10:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the correct terminology. I looked up my brothers model and it does not have a bi-amp mode.
He just needed the model that is 1 step higher for it.
If I ever go to purchase a receiver I will make sure it has Bi-amp mode.
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post #6 of 19 Old 01-15-2014, 01:27 AM
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Biamping and biwiring do nothing useful with modern solidstate receivers and amps.

Biamp and biwiring features are included in many receivers and speakers because they're cheap to provide and there are enough people who believe the mythologies. Passive biamping made some sense when the only amps available were tube amps with limited bandwidth and power. Active biamping, where each speaker driver has its own dedicated amp and external electronic crossovers are used between them, also has some advantages.

Biwiring has never made any sense at all except to snake-oil cable marketers -- like those who advertise "aligned copper crystals" and "cryogenic treatments". Some specialized cables made explicitly for biwiring actually distort the sound. The high-frequency wires are very thin, resulting in a high resistance. That limits the current available to the high frequency drivers in the speaker.

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post #7 of 19 Old 01-15-2014, 02:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by campdude View Post

Thanks for the correct terminology. I looked up my brothers model and it does not have a bi-amp mode.
He just needed the model that is 1 step higher for it.
If I ever go to purchase a receiver I will make sure it has Bi-amp mode.


Passive biamping, which is what you are talking about, has very minor benefits if any at all.

I wouldn't even look across the street to get an AVR with a biamp mode. There is a lot of misinformation about this on the web. Debunking it is pretty technical, but it is for all practical purposes, bunk.
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post #8 of 19 Old 01-20-2014, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Okay, I do know nothing about speakers and thought that different sounds was going to come from the top and bottom of the speaker.
Kind-of like a dedicated sub-woofer. But if its not doing that and something else I really dont know what its doing.
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post #9 of 19 Old 01-20-2014, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by campdude View Post

Okay, I do know nothing about speakers and thought that different sounds was going to come from the top and bottom of the speaker.
Kind-of like a dedicated sub-woofer. But if its not doing that and something else I really dont know what its doing.

That's what they're doing. What part of the discussion is confusing you?

The upper part of a two-way speaker contains a separate tweeter which is good for providing high frequencies. The lower part of a two-way speaker contains a separate woofer which is good for providing low frequencies. The generic name for them is a driver. Connecting them is a crossover network built of capacitors and inductors which separates out high frequencies for the tweeter and low frequencies for the woofer.

A receiver or amplifier outputs the full range of frequencies provided by the source material. The same signals are going to be driving the same speaker drivers and crossover networks whether the speaker drivers are connected together or are separated into a biamp configuration. As a result, each speaker driver produces exactly the same range of audio whether it's in a biamp configuration or not, so you'll hear exactly the same thing in both configurations.

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post #10 of 19 Old 01-20-2014, 10:18 PM - Thread Starter
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What I meant was... I thought the Receiver was separating the signals.
So what is actually happening is the speaker itself is doing magic even though the same signal is sent to both speakers and its the same as bi-amp.
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post #11 of 19 Old 01-20-2014, 10:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Which to me doesnt make sense because why send trebble stuff to the base speakers. Unless the speakers are really smart.
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post #12 of 19 Old 01-21-2014, 04:54 AM
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That's why passive bi-amping (which is what's being discussed) does nothing useful. Modern audio/video receivers and passive speakers aren't designed to do anything else. To do it right, you need to use external digital crossovers so exactly the right frequencies are amplified and sent to each speaker driver. This is often done in high-end "active" speaker systems which have separate amplifiers and filters built into the box for each individual speaker driver.

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post #13 of 19 Old 01-21-2014, 09:50 AM
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The speakers have an internal "crossover", which takes the full-frequency signal from the audio receiver or amplifier, and divides the frequencies into LOW and HIGH frequencies. It sends lows (bass) to the woofer, and sends the highs (treble) to the tweeter. It does quite a bit more, and is usually made up of a number of components.
If there are 4 sets of wire posts on the speaker, then one set goes to the tweeter part of the crossover, and the other set goes to the woofer part of the crossover. If you only have one set of wires from the amplifier, then there will be a metal strap joining the top and bottom posts together. Even in passive bi-amp or bi-wire mode, the same full-frequency is sent down both wires from the amplifier.
Hope this helps.
And, many very fine, high quality speakers only have 2 wire posts on them!wink.gif
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post #14 of 19 Old 01-21-2014, 06:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Yea Now i know thanks for the information. My Stereo had Bi-AMP speakers default. Then I think I removed the golden plate and used it in bi-amp mode since it was default on my speakers.

The funny thing is I really don't know where plates are anymore. I didn't know any better.
I'll have to deal with that when the time comes when i Move these speakers to a TV someday instead of a computer.
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post #15 of 19 Old 01-21-2014, 06:55 PM
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You don't need the plates. Standard speaker wire would work fine, so long as you're careful not to short out the wrong speaker binding posts.

But do bear in mind that biamping doesn't do any harm. It just doesn't do anything useful.

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post #16 of 19 Old 01-23-2014, 09:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the information. Now i am concerned about frying the speakers lol. But thats in the future.
Good stuff to know atleast. Now to look into 'active' bi-amping?
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post #17 of 19 Old 01-23-2014, 10:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Is there anything right now that does Active Biamp?
I already have 8 cables of good speaker wire cut. I might be looking for a receiver soon in the next year or so.
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post #18 of 19 Old 01-24-2014, 12:07 PM
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No receiver provides active biamping except for the special case of low frequency crossovers to subwoofers.

Active biamping requires speakers with carefully selected separate drivers (e.g. with appropriate overlapping frequency ranges and no passive crossover networks connected between them) plus active crossovers with crossover filter profiles carefully designed to match the capabilities of the individual drivers.

Here's one source of active crossovers: http://www.naimaudio.com/hifi-products/type/crossover
Naim is a respected company providing high quality, high end, high priced audio equipment. I'm sure similar crossovers are available from other suppliers.

I personally have no experience with doing this. It has always seemed too much work for too little gain.

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post #19 of 19 Old 01-25-2014, 08:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes probably too much work if its not build into the receiver.
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