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-   -   Murder Mystery - What's killing the tuner in my AVR??? (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/1512150-murder-mystery-what-s-killing-tuner-my-avr.html)

happy2Lurk 01-15-2014 03:05 PM

I have a Pioneer SC-1222-K and something has killed four AM/FM-tuners in it. My question is, is the killer in the AVR or in my home? eek.gif

The original, first tuner lasted about five months.

Warranty service replaced the tuner and HDMI board. From my service receipt, "Explanation of service: Replaced bad Digital and Tuner PCB'S. Part # / Description: -- AWX1200 / DIGITAL PCB -- AXX7282 / TUNER"

This second tuner lasted just 7-8 days. Warranty service replaced the tuner (Part # AXX7282).

The third tuner lasted 9-10 days. Warranty service replaced the tuner (Part # AXX7282).

The fourth tuner lasted 54-55 days. Now Pioneer wants to replace my AVR.

None of the tuners died while in use. Actually, I only rarely used the tuner.

For AM antenna, I only used the Pioneer provide loop.

For FM, I started with the provided wire antenna, had poor reception , so connected it to my outdoor TV antenna (via radio shack 75/300 adapter). Tuners 2 & 3 also used the TV antenna. With the fourth tuner I went back to the Pioneer provided wire antenna only.

Each time I took the AVR in for service, I asked if anything about my setup could have killed the tuner. The first visit, they just said it doesn't take much to kill the tuner. The second visit they said some times they get a bad tuner. After the third repair, they said there may be some kind of feedback loop on my outdoor antenna connection and recommended keeping the AVR separate by using rabbit ears if I need better reception.

That is why I only used the Pioneer antennas with tuner number four - it still died!

So, is it more likely that my AVR has some defect that randomly kills the tuner or could there be something in my home that is doing it? I need to know because I do not want to go through this with the replacement unit.

Can you help identify any suspects please???

Worf 01-15-2014 08:38 PM

It's quite unlikely that it's your house - probably a defect in your original receiver is the problem. Like say, a defective power supply is putting too much voltage to the tuner board and killing it.

Or it could quite well be that your receiver is a lemon. It happens.

Take the replacement, make sure it has a full warranty and not a chintzy 30 day one (at the very least, make sure it's covered to the end of your original warranty period) and have a go at it. Use the pioneer antennas only.

FMW 01-16-2014 06:30 AM

+1

arnyk 01-16-2014 06:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by happy2Lurk View Post

I have a Pioneer SC-1222-K and something has killed four AM/FM-tuners in it. My question is, is the killer in the AVR or in my home? eek.gif

The original, first tuner lasted about five months.

Warranty service replaced the tuner and HDMI board. From my service receipt, "Explanation of service: Replaced bad Digital and Tuner PCB'S. Part # / Description: -- AWX1200 / DIGITAL PCB -- AXX7282 / TUNER"

This second tuner lasted just 7-8 days. Warranty service replaced the tuner (Part # AXX7282).

The third tuner lasted 9-10 days. Warranty service replaced the tuner (Part # AXX7282).

The fourth tuner lasted 54-55 days. Now Pioneer wants to replace my AVR.

None of the tuners died while in use. Actually, I only rarely used the tuner.

For AM antenna, I only used the Pioneer provide loop.

For FM, I started with the provided wire antenna, had poor reception , so connected it to my outdoor TV antenna (via radio shack 75/300 adapter). Tuners 2 & 3 also used the TV antenna. With the fourth tuner I went back to the Pioneer provided wire antenna only.

Each time I took the AVR in for service, I asked if anything about my setup could have killed the tuner. The first visit, they just said it doesn't take much to kill the tuner. The second visit they said some times they get a bad tuner. After the third repair, they said there may be some kind of feedback loop on my outdoor antenna connection and recommended keeping the AVR separate by using rabbit ears if I need better reception.

That is why I only used the Pioneer antennas with tuner number four - it still died!

So, is it more likely that my AVR has some defect that randomly kills the tuner or could there be something in my home that is doing it? I need to know because I do not want to go through this with the replacement unit.

Can you help identify any suspects please???

Might be environmental. Perchance you live near broadcast towers or an industrial processing plant that might be leaking massive amounts of RF?

Do you have any other FM receivers in your house? How is their health?

mrjktcvs 01-16-2014 08:59 AM

Might be environmental. Perchance you live near broadcast towers or an industrial processing plant that might be leaking massive amounts of RF?
Do you have any other FM receivers in your house? How is their health?

A Russian scientist might ask, "How is YOUR health?"

happy2Lurk 01-16-2014 04:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Worf View Post

It's quite unlikely that it's your house - probably a defect in your original receiver is the problem. Like say, a defective power supply is putting too much voltage to the tuner board and killing it.

Or it could quite well be that your receiver is a lemon. It happens.

Take the replacement, make sure it has a full warranty and not a chintzy 30 day one (at the very least, make sure it's covered to the end of your original warranty period) and have a go at it. Use the pioneer antennas only.

If it is just the receiver, that would be good news - get replacement, problem solved. smile.gif

The service center I was using had said that Pioneer would likely replace with a new unit, but so far, all Pioneer has offered is likely a refurbished, lesser model with 90 day warranty. Because of this, I have not yet shipped my unit.

Unfortunately I wasted months before taking the AVR in with the first failure. I didn't use the tuner much and otherwise was enjoying the receiver. I didn't think it was going to turnout this way. I was only thinking one repair and done. Just didn't want to deal with the hassle of getting it in for repair or the down time, loss of use. So, now there is maybe two-weeks remaining on my warranty.

Pioneer customer service seems to be horrible. Long delays before responding - even with a direct email address. Currently, it has been two full business days without any response to my last message. I am beginning to think they are trying to run-out-the-clock on my warranty.

happy2Lurk 01-16-2014 04:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Might be environmental. Perchance you live near broadcast towers or an industrial processing plant that might be leaking massive amounts of RF?

No towers, residential area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Do you have any other FM receivers in your house? How is their health?

Do older clock radios, multi-band/portable radios count? If so, yes and all good. Been here for years, no problems I can recall with other equipment.

happy2Lurk 01-16-2014 04:40 PM

So the general consensus is that the AVR has a problem and not something to do with my location. That's good. After the repair tech had mentioned something about a feedback loop with the antenna connections, I was concerned.

Just to be sure, is it also unlikely that some other component could be feeding some signal/surge through HDMI or other cable that is killing the tuners? Is there any likely source outside of the AVR that could be causing the tuner failures?

Worf 01-16-2014 08:30 PM

Most likely it's just the receiver. Probably the power supply is feeding the tuner board too much voltage or something and killing them. Or maybe your electrical power might be bad and that receiver happens to be a bit more "delicate"?

Or just a lemon. It happens - if we knew why sometimes one unit out of thousands would have a significantly higher rate of failure, manufacturers would pay to fix their product lines. (warranty repairs are expensive - you probably already cost pioneer more than what you paid).

happy2Lurk 01-17-2014 01:47 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Worf View Post

Most likely it's just the receiver. Probably the power supply is feeding the tuner board too much voltage or something and killing them. Or maybe your electrical power might be bad and that receiver happens to be a bit more "delicate"?

I did wonder why they did not try replacing the power supply. Is the power supply expensive?

I have to believe the HDMI board was expensive. They replaced that even though all HDMI connections seemed fine - of course there may be a relationship with the tuner and HDMI board that I don't know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Worf View Post

Or just a lemon. It happens - if we knew why sometimes one unit out of thousands would have a significantly higher rate of failure, manufacturers would pay to fix their product lines. (warranty repairs are expensive - you probably already cost pioneer more than what you paid).

I don't doubt that, parts alone are probably about half of what I paid.

Worf 01-17-2014 09:09 PM

Well, one reason they probably didn't replace the power supply is well, the problem wasn't obvious. After all, replaced the malfunctioning parts and it works again. No reason to keep looking for problems - that's just wasted money.

Power supply problems are subtle. If the replacement doesn't let the magic smoke out immediately, then it's all good. But a malfunctioning power supply can cause a host of problems - many strange like oddball mysterious thumping to it not powering up once in a while (easy to miss - you just assume the remote control didn't quite send the signal or something).

Won't know about the HDMI board - maybe it was the instigator - some fault overloads the supply in some way that damages it without leaving a mark.

And parts are cheap - labor is expensive at $50+ per hour. Or why if there is a fault, they replace the bad part and move on because chasing all faults costs a lot of money.

happy2Lurk 01-18-2014 01:54 PM

Worf, thanks for all the info.

If Pioneer insists on replacing my AVR with the lesser model, I had considered just keeping mine. If the power supply is suspect though, I would be concerned that it might kill other functions over time. Now I just need to get the replacement worked out with Pioneer. Still no response to my email.

I called late Friday and got a rep that said with an opened case, I do not need to complete the exchange before my warranty expires. When I asked for that in writing, I was told she can't email. She did say she would add my concerns about the replacement unit and warranty to my case file (the assigned rep had not done that). Better than nothing I guess.

Worf 01-18-2014 08:26 PM

Well, what's the choice - a refurb exact model or a new lesser one? Would the lesser one be of the current model? Is there any concerns of what it doesn't have? Especially if it lacks a feature you use?

Sometimes a lower model inherits features from the higher end models over the course of a couple of years. If you know what they're replacing it with, check out the official thread here - maybe you'll be pleasantly surprised. Also inquire about the warranty on the replacement.

As for the replacement, the typical thing is as long as you're approved for a replacement, you can return it while the replacement approval is active. The important thing is to have the replacement approved before the warranty expires. Maybe just having a case open is fine, but I wouldn't count on it. If you have an RMA number, then it's fine - you usually have 30 days to return it even if the warranty expires the day after it's issued.

happy2Lurk 01-19-2014 12:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Worf View Post

Well, what's the choice - a refurb exact model or a new lesser one? Would the lesser one be of the current model? Is there any concerns of what it doesn't have? Especially if it lacks a feature you use?

Sometimes a lower model inherits features from the higher end models over the course of a couple of years. If you know what they're replacing it with, check out the official thread here - maybe you'll be pleasantly surprised. Also inquire about the warranty on the replacement.

As for the replacement, the typical thing is as long as you're approved for a replacement, you can return it while the replacement approval is active. The important thing is to have the replacement approved before the warranty expires. Maybe just having a case open is fine, but I wouldn't count on it. If you have an RMA number, then it's fine - you usually have 30 days to return it even if the warranty expires the day after it's issued.

Worf, thanks for continuing to take your time to try to help me. I have never gone through a warranty replacement.

I think I have the equivalent of a RMA# - I have a ARA# from a January 10th email.

What I have been told at this point, is that Pioneer currently has no SC-1222-K's, that my replacement would be a SC-1223-K or "comparable unit." I was also told that since it has been nearly a year since my purchase I would receive a refurbished unit with a 90 day warranty.

I have gone to Pioneer's site and reviewed specs. I found that the 1223 does not have full 7-channel pre-outs, just Front , L-R. When I bought the 1222, I was looking to replace a pre-amp that was failing. I have power-amps that I use with my 1222 that I will not be able to use with the 1223 - so yes, for me it lacks features. It is also a full 6-pounds lighter!

I have sent a message to Pioneer, saying that, "I do not consider the SC-1223-K comparable. I would not have considered it when shopping. I was replacing a pre-amp. I have power-amps that I run with the SC-1222-K. I need the full 7.1 channel pre-outs." And that, "Looking at Pioneer's site, the AVR most comparable is the SC-1323-K. I need to know that my replacement will be either a SC-1222-K or a SC-1323-K.

I do not have a problem with refurbished, as long as it is in "like new" condition with all accessories (remote, cables, antennas, disc, etc.) and paperwork (manuals, guides) - everything that is included in a new retail box. "
Adding that, other than the tuner, my unit could pass for new and that I will be returning it, in the original box, with all accessories.

I sent that message, January 14, so it has been three full business days and still no response. This lack of response has given me time to think. Although the, "1-year, so refurbished," seemed reasonable at first, after thinking about it, I am not so sure. The first tuner died after about 5-months of use. As I said above, I did put-off taking the unit in for repair the first time but after that, it's all just a matter of how long it took for the replacement tuner to die and the repair time - and now the time involved trying to get Pioneer to assure me I will get a truly comparable replacement.

The replacement process started December 30th (received case #) and I was given the ARA# January 10th. So, from what you said about the RMA & 30-days, both my warranty and ARA# are expiring in a matter of days - hence my concern with the lack of timely response from Pioneer.

Worf 01-19-2014 07:46 PM

The clock normally starts when you get the number, so it's been ticking since January 10, not December 30. After all, its possible that diagnosing takes a long time.

Do you have a phone number you can call? Email is great, but it's really easy to blow someone off (accidentally or otherwise). If Pioneer has a customer support number, give it a call - just quote your case number and they should be able to look it up and answer any questions you have.

And yes, mention that yes, you're missing a really critical feature in the unit they plan to send you on the phone as that information may not be in your case file.

Finally, re-send the email again to Pioneer, it probably got lost in the mess. Doesn't hurt.

happy2Lurk 01-20-2014 07:45 PM

I tried calling Friday (post 12) - no help. Only could add my concerns to the file - from post 12 - "I called late Friday and got a rep that said with an opened case, I do not need to complete the exchange before my warranty expires. When I asked for that in writing, I was told she can't email. She did say she would add my concerns about the replacement unit and warranty to my case file (the assigned rep had not done that). Better than nothing I guess."

Not very impressed with Pioneer customer support so far. I have resent. I had to resend before because of the lack of response to my first message. If you use Pioneer's web site form to ask a question, you get an auto response letting you know your question was received. When you send an email to Pioneer's Customer Support you get nothing. You are left waiting and hoping that your message was received and that someone will respond some day. Not a good experience, especially after sending my receipts with full name, address, phone, account number ... then no response for days ...

Worf 01-20-2014 08:15 PM

I say call again - CSR roulette is a very real thing and you might get actual service from the next one. Or at least be able to confirm that the other CSR actually did something.

happy2Lurk 01-21-2014 06:19 PM

Worf, thanks again for staying involved.

Actually, I was very surprised to receive a call today from Pioneer. They are now offering a New SC-72 Elite as a replacement for my unit.

As far as I can tell, this would be at least equal to my SC-1222-k, with a few new features. I have been unable to find any professional reviews of the SC-72 but I haven't found anything negative either.

I forgot to ask about the warranty while on the phone. After I was told they would email details, it seemed she was in a hurry to end the call. With details coming I wasn't too concerned. When I checked my email, "details" consisted of a message with the subject of, "SC-72 REPLACEMENT" and NOTHING ELSE - not even a "This space intentionally left blank" in the message body.

So, things are looking up. Other than trying to find out what kind of warranty I would get, I think I'm ready to swap.

Worf 01-21-2014 08:15 PM

Awesome. Find out the warranty and send that baby in!

Keep us in the loop.

happy2Lurk 01-22-2014 03:53 PM

I called Pioneer today to ask about the warranty. Learned a few things that others may like to know - of course confirm this applies in your case.

- ARA# - good for 60 days

- in cases like this, they add, in service center /repair time, to original warranty. So, XD = original warranty expiration date + "in shop time." In my case about 30-days.

- on this call, the rep offered to send me a shipping label, to cover the cost of return. I accepted of course.

- They will only offer a 90-day warranty on the replacement unit. I pressed on this and got nowhere.

Since this was all over the phone and I haven't had much luck getting details in writing, I sent a message ...

my current understanding is my ARA# is good for 60 days and that ...

1. I will be sent a FedEx shipping label, within the next few days, for the return of my unit, at no cost to me.

2. I will then box my unit and take to FedEx for shipment to Pioneer.

3. Once received by Pioneer, it will go through a review & approval process, taking about 7-business days.

4. Once approved, my replacement - a New, SC-72 Elite with 90-day warranty - will be shipped, at no cost to me.

5. There is a note in my case file to send me tracking numbers.

6. I receive the SC-72 and hope that it has no defect or if defective, it fails within the 90 day warranty.

7. I try to comfort myself with the thought, "what are the odds I get two defective receivers in a row." smile.gif

If any of this is incorrect, please let me know ASAP.


I will try to avoid a rant but going through this, I now realize how unfair the warranty defect process is.

If it is true, that my problem stems from a defective power supply, then, some man or machine, pulled this power supply from the bin, stuck it in the receiver, that went to the retail outlet, that I ordered from, where some man or machine, stuck my shipping label on it and sent it off to me.

Because I drew-the-short-straw, I unknowingly had this ticking time-bomb in my home. For my good fortune, what do I get?

First, I get to setup and enjoy my new AVR, then, about 5-months in, BOOM!, the tuner dies. So I get to learn how to do a factory reset, play with my connections ... when I run out of options, I contact Pioneer Support. I am told to send the unit in for service.

So now I get to search for a service center - in my case there were two, about the same travel time (hassle) - so I try to find-out if one is better than the other. After selecting the service center, I get to disconnect and box my unit and drive it the 40-plus miles for repair. Round-trip about 3-hours - traffic of course.

Then I wait, about 10-days for repair, so I can again drive up and back, reconnect everything, run MCCAC (multiple times) re-enter my preferences ... and of course, enjoy my new AVR, for a few days, until, BOOM!

Repeat the above. BOOM! again. Repeat the above. BOOM! ... Again!

After all this, I now get to deal with "Customer Support," which starts off telling me, for a replacement, I will get a refurbished, lesser model, that does not meet my needs - and to get this gem, I must pay to send them my defective unit.

After some long, drawn-out, back-and-forth (about 3-weeks, so far) I get the best trade I believe I can get (the above) - which now gives me the joy of waiting for a shipping label (better than me paying) followed by the disconnecting and boxing (which I'm getting pretty good at) and driving it off to FedEx (pretty close).

Then, the waiting, for review, for approval, for shipping -by my estimate about 3-4 weeks.

Followed by the un-boxing, connecting, setup, learning a new model (hopefully not too different) and of course, enjoying my new receiver.

For all this trouble, time and expense, I am offered, by Pioneer's good graces, a generous warranty of an entire 90-days on my replacement. Of course they can offer no assurance that my replacement will not come with a defect of its own. frown.gif Although, if I should have a problem, outside the 90-day warranty, the rep did suggest that I call and see if Pioneer will take pity on me. cool.gif

On my defective unit, I have a 1-year extension of the manufacturers warranty through my credit card. I may or may not lose this with the replacement unit. Oh joy, I also get to call the credit card company to check on this!

The price for this wonderful experience, is exactly equal to, what many others paid, to get a non-defective unit.

But wait, if you add my time and expenses, I paid more! Hey, that does sound unfair, doesn't it?

Here's hope'n I get a good one this time!

Okay, so maybe, I got a little ranty. smile.gif

happy2Lurk 01-22-2014 04:49 PM

I actually got reply confirming my understanding and the FedEx label email today - same day - never had service like that before today. Hopefully sending it off tomorrow.

Worf 01-22-2014 08:52 PM

Returns generally suck. Most warranties require you to pay for the return shipping back (it's right there in the warranty form). Sometimes you can get lucky and pre-pay for a shipping label that lets you take advantage of their lower shipping fees. Very few actually give you return shipping for free.

And it can be worse - a lot of the no-name "budget" brands (that no one on AVS would really even seriously consider) may even require you to return it to an overseas (usually China) facility. Of course, the real goal is to make it so they don't have to provide warranty service, because by the time you pay for shipping and all that other stuff, you'd probably be better off buying a brand new unit.

So at least console yourself with the fact that Pioneer finally caved and gave you a probably higher end (Elite series, after all) unit, brand new (though only 90 day warranty), and actually prepaid return shipping. Sure they probably could do more, but at least you got a little something for your troubles.

And these days, I weigh shipping vs. gas and time - even a local return to the depot, if it's going to only cost me $10 more to ship, I'll just ship it rather than make the trip there and back.

As for your old unit, it could be power supply, it could be a genuine lemon that rolled off the line (some products have lemon laws). If one could figure out what causes lemons, I think they'd get a Nobel prize. Hell, just being able to detect it scientifically would be good enough as it saves everyone (consumer and manufacturer) a lot of trouble, time and money. (And lemons are strange - I'm sure Pioneer could replace everything in your receiver and it STILL would fail...).

happy2Lurk 01-23-2014 01:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Worf View Post

And these days, I weigh shipping vs. gas and time - even a local return to the depot, if it's going to only cost me $10 more to ship, I'll just ship it rather than make the trip there and back.

I do that too. However, I was optimistic, thinking that the repair would be successful (each and everyone) - so I also factor in the greater chance of damage to the unit if shipped vs. me hand-carrying.

I have been buying electronics since the 70's and I cannot recall ever having warranty work done before this. Usually, if something failed, it failed during the retail return / exchange period. I know I have read that if electronics are going to fail it is usually early and that has been my experience.

The thing I do not understand about the 90-day warranty vs. offering a full warranty on new replacements, is that, if Pioneer really believed in their product, they would just offer the full warranty. After all, the odds of failure are (or at least should be) low. If Pioneer really thought units would fail, they would only offer 30, 60, 90-day warranties.

All warranties, insurance, guarantees are for things that are very unlikely to happen, during the coverage period. If you want a company to warrant or insure something that is likely to happen - that coverage is going to be very expensive. Most of the time, it's just words on paper, to give the consumer piece of mind.

I would think, Pioneer could offer to cover all costs on replacements and offer full warranties, then use this in marketing and sales and come out ahead.

Worf 01-23-2014 08:57 PM

True, most failures happen at the beginning or near the end, the middle being the lowest failure rate (the so-called "bathtub curve"). However, the failure rate is NOT zero, and there's always a chance it fails sometime in the middle. Crap happens, after all.

For the 90 day warranty, I'm not entirely surprised. Basically, you're getting a brand new boxed unit, but the company really would like to give you a minimal warranty because it's really to replace an existing thing under warranty (they do cost money, after all). So most places generally give you a warranty to the longer of the rest of the existing warranty period, or 30/60/90 days. Makes me wonder if Pioneer offers a way to extend the warranty for a small fee... might be nice to inquire. The general thinking is you paid for the original warranty period, and that's what you get, but for those that die near the end, they offer a small extension to cover infant mortality. Just the way the cookie crumbles thanks to intense competition and the need to cut corners and build to a price.

Anyhow,, warranties are also expensive to implement - most products are "throwaway" because if it fails, it's not economically feasible to repair. If you paid $500 for a receiver, and it fails, then to have a tech come around and basically test it out, open it up, try to see what's wrong, and then fix it, it could be a couple of hours work. Or around $100, if they're paid $50/hr. Plus the cost of the replacement part and associated ancillary costs. That basically eats all the profit from the sale and then some. (Consumer electronics has a very small margin - usually 5% or so for the store, and the manufacturer maybe 10%. There are exceptions like Apple who command 20-40%)

Heck, you have Europeans complaining about how much they pay for stuff in the EU - but the flip side is, everything "durable" has to come with a reasonable warranty - 2 to 3 years for consumer electronics. So part of the extra cost is the extra warranty period. It's a delicate balance between price of raw materials and assembly (you can build to different quality levels for the same product - just depends what you're willing to spend. E.g., cheap capacitors that die easily vs. premium brand-name caps that take a beating).

In the end, count yourself lucky that in 40 years, you only had one thing that died in the middle of its lifespan. And still under warranty. Lots more have undergone the "died the day after" issue smile.gif.

happy2Lurk 02-07-2014 02:00 PM

Well the fun continues with Pioneer.

After getting them to agree to give me a comparable replacement, I packaged and shipped my lemon unit. It was delivered to Pioneer on Monday, January 27, 2014 at 2;54pm (Direct Signature Required). So someone at Pioneer signed for it.

In correspondence with Pioneer, I had gotten a timeline, covering the time from delivery to Pioneer, to the shipping of my replacement:

"Once product is received and entered into the system which usually takes about 3-4 working days. The representative inputs the order in the system. Gets the necessary mgmt, approvals and order sent to warehouse for picking and shipping of the replacement to you. I think we can safely say that the product should get out of here on its way to you with seven working days."

I also had confirmed that there was a note in my file to send tracking information when shipped.

I waited a full 7-working days, not counting the day of delivery - and nothing.

After the end of the seventh working day, Thursday, February 5, 2014 at 4:47pm, I sent a message requesting the status of my case - still in process, shipped?

The only thing good about Pioneer's reply was that it was quick, arriving February 6 at 7:56am. Unfortunately, the response was disturbing:

"I don't show receipt of your product at Pioneer yet. I will have to get a message to our receiving department to locate the unit."

I wrote back, February 6 at 10:09am. I summed-up my experience and requested: "Please let me know when (if) you locate my unit. Please also let me know what my new timeline looks like - processing to shipment."

Again I received a timely response from Pioneer. At 11:49am I was told:

"I did contact our receiving department after receipt of your last e-mail and the product has been located. Once its placed in the system I will process the order for the replacement unit to ship to you."

Although this sounded good, I was not sure what it meant. So, at 2:32pm on February 6th, I wrote:

"Previously you said, "Once product is received and entered into the system which usually takes about 3-4 working days. The representative inputs the order in the system. Gets the necessary mgmt, approvals and order sent to warehouse for picking and shipping of the replacement to you. I think we can safely say that the product should get out of here on its way to you with seven working days."

Now you say, "Once its placed in the system I will process the order for the replacement unit to ship to you."

What does this actually mean to me? How many days before my replacement (new, SC-72), is shipped - leaves Pioneer? 3-4 working days? The full 7-working days? Other? Please let me know what my new timeline looks like - processing to shipment.

Given my experience so far, would it be wise for me to email or call daily, to make sure the "process" is actually progressing?


Currently, at nearly 24-hours, since my second request for a new timeline and no response. I guess I will be calling before they close today.

To sum my experience, I got a lemon. I got to take my lemon in for service (not repair, since it was never fixed) multiple times. I got to spend a few weeks negotiating for a comparable replacement (due to Pioneer's slow response). I got to package and ship my lemon off to Pioneer. I got to wait another couple weeks for my replacement to be sent, only to find that instead of processing my lemon, it was just sitting at Pioneer collecting dust. Finally, I am once again back in Pioneer limbo, not really knowing what will happen (if anything is happening) or how long it will take, before I hopefully get, what I thought I purchased, a year ago - a working Pioneer receiver!

Unfortunately, the saga continues ...

happy2Lurk 02-07-2014 04:08 PM

Called Pioneer, "my rep" actually answered. I asked for best & worst case - when will my replacement be shipped, leave Pioneer.

  • Best, Tues, 2/11/14, which should put it at my door, Thurs, 2/13/14.
  • Worst, Thurs, 2/13/14, which should put it at my door, Tues -- 2/18/14 - an extra day because, Mon, 2/17/14 is a holiday, President's day.


Said she was making a note to followup on, Wed, 2/12/14 and that she would send tracking information.

At this point, I'll believe it, when I see it. Also, I'm betting on the worst case because the holiday will drag this out one more day. Bonus! smile.gif

If it had gone the way I was originally told, my receiver would be here today, Monday at the latest.

happy2Lurk 02-13-2014 12:21 PM

Well, Wednesday, came and went with no message/update. However, Thursday AM I got a message saying, "still in process."

Worf 02-13-2014 08:26 PM

Dammmmmn... I guess your next receiver won't be a Pioneer...

happy2Lurk 02-14-2014 02:48 PM

Late Thursday, got another message, with tracking numbers, saying : "Good News.. There is no tracking information available yet, but Fedex has picked up the package. I hope this restores your faith in Pioneer."

So I do get the bonus holiday wait time frown.gif but at least "the package" is on its way. Should have my "replacement" on Tues, 2/18/14.

It only took 7-weeks, from first contact, to (estimated) delivery, of my "replacement." Add to that the roughly 4-weeks of down-time, while in for service and this has easily been the longest I have gone, in the last four-decades, without a sound system.

This is the first receiver I have ever had. Previously, I have always had separate components - pre-amp, power-amp(s) because if one fails, you don't lose the use of all. While shopping for a new pre-amp, a sales rep. suggested I consider a receiver with pre-outs. Ironically, when I decided to go this way, I looked at it as getting a tuner thrown-in.

As far as, restoring my faith in Pioneer or
Quote:
Originally Posted by Worf View Post

Dammmmmn... I guess your next receiver won't be a Pioneer...

that will depend on what happens with my "replacement." If all goes well, then all this will just fade away. If my "replacement" should fail, especially during the 90-day to 1-year window, then in the future, Pioneer will likely be a last resort.

I might have had a little more faith in Pioneer, during this process, if things had gone quicker, smoother and if they were not so reluctant to put specifics in writing/email. The fact that they keep referring to my "replacement" or the "package" makes me a little nervous. My "replacement" was specified as a SC-72 in only one message they sent. That message consisted of a subject only, no text in the body, saying, "SC-72 REPLACEMENT."

Over the phone I was told my "replacement" would be a new, SC-72. When I sent an email confirming what was agreed to, on the phone, all I got back was, "yes."

I can understand, that using generic terminology is easier for them, when communicating with multiple customers but because of my experience so far, it makes me nervous. It leaves me wondering, what will be in the "package" when it finally arrives? confused.gif

I guess I need more "faith" in Pioneer.

happy2Lurk 06-15-2014 01:37 PM

update - about 4-months in use
 
I did receive a new SC-72 on 2/18/2014.

Overall, I would have preferred that my original SC-1222-k had been good but so far the SC-72 has worked. I am now past the 90-day warranty - so hopefully it will continue to work. If not, I did contact my credit card extended warranty company and was told that I was covered for an additional year.

Recently, the SC-72 did give me a scare. It lost HDMI audio on all but one of the ports in use. I was going to do a "reset" but before doing the reset I wanted to see if the front HDMI port worked.

I connected my laptop to the front HDMI port and had 5.1 audio. I then checked the other ports - all good. All HDMI ports working. It had "fixed" itself. Maybe activating a new port had "refreshed" something in the AVR's HDMI processing.

This saved me from having to re-run MCACC and re-enter all of my settings. If you lose HDMI audio, you may want to try activating an unused port before resetting the AVR.

I should add, the best part about getting the SC-72 was iControlAV2013. For 2013 they added a music player/wifi streamer that really works - i haven't had any drops/breaks.

Now, Pioneer offers iControlAV5 which has everything in iControlAV2013 and iControlAV5works accross multiple years of Pioneer AVR's. If you haven't tried it, get it at Google Play (android). More info, iControlAV5 - Support & Guide and Instruction Manual.


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