need some help with choosing right amps. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 18 Old 01-22-2014, 07:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys,
you guys help me out so much in the past and I really appreciate everybody's help. I love the system that you guys help me put together and suggested but I feel the time has changed for what I need. I'm looking at purchasing two Cerwin-Vega XLS-215 and pairing it with a Cerwin-Vega XLS-6C.I plan on keeping my two rear Bic America FH-65B I also own one VTF-3 MK4 HSU Subwoofer, and I plan on purchasing another one.
Now I know this may seem like overkill… Hell who am I kidding it is overkill. But I really want to be able to hear my bass when I crank it and I want my neighbors to hate me and I want to shake my entire house.
Now here's where I'm curious, will I need a separate amplifier to power my two front speakers because they're so powerful. I also want to be able to set my sub woofer to hit at frequencies lower than 40 Hz Hz. The Cerwin Vegas go down to 20 Hz so I want them to cut out at around 20 Hz, let's say it's 35 Hz I want to have both my subs and my fronts to both it then all of a sudden an explosion happens that dips down to 19 Hz I want that to be strictly handled with my sub woofers. What would I need to do a setup like this receiver wise? I also want to incorporate a equalizer in there if I can or if it's practical nowadays. Any thoughts or ideas would be greatly appreciated thank you guys in advance.
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post #2 of 18 Old 01-23-2014, 02:50 AM - Thread Starter
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So Iv done some research and what I need is something like this for the front two speakers Amplifier! Now what I was wondering Is there something less expensive out there? I was looking at Cerwin Vega Pro Cv-1800 but when looking at the pics I dont see how to hook this up to 5.1 Receiver, The first one I linked hooks up with RCA. The Cerwin Amp has some weird looking hookup I have never seen before. Now if I get something like this and have my front speakers running thru a seperate amp will that free up my 2 front speakers hook ups on the 5.1 receiver? Because if it does I would also like to purchase 2 of these Klipsch RB-51 to the front L and R channel on my 5.1 receiver to boost that highs and mids coming from the Cerwin Vegas. Now if I could do that would a Klipsch RC-52 work for a center with having The Cerwins and the Klipsh Front Speakers?
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post #3 of 18 Old 01-23-2014, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
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anyone?
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post #4 of 18 Old 01-23-2014, 04:48 PM
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Just because your speakers can go down to 20Hz, doesn't mean you should make them if you have capable subs. Those CVs are fairly sensitive. At a 2m distance you will need less than 64W to drive them above reference levels full range. Any decent receiver can do that. Buying an external amp will be a waste of money for no audible difference. You say you have a HSU VTF-3 MK4 sub and will be getting another later on. The money wasted on the external amp should go to the second sub now. You'll get far better performance running the CV's small crossed over at 80Hz over to the dual HSUs.
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post #5 of 18 Old 01-23-2014, 06:45 PM
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For big impact with HT, get a 2nd sub before buying an amp. Running the front speakers as large with the sub could result in less deep bass! Set the speakers to small and let the subs do the heavy work.

Klipsch RF 7 based HT 7.4, Pioneer SC 35, Acurus Five 200 amp, Chase SS 18.2(2), VS 18.1(2), Samsung BDP F 7500, Asus/My Book Live HPC 4 TB

Yaquin VK 2100 amp, McIntosh XR 5 speakers, Samsung BDP F 7500
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post #6 of 18 Old 01-23-2014, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by twisterdude1009 View Post

anyone?

What AVR are you using? Have I overlooked it? I agree with the second sub first before amps though. Since you want to upset neighbors with bass the subs will do it before the amps will.
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post #7 of 18 Old 01-24-2014, 07:08 PM - Thread Starter
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What AVR are you using? Have I overlooked it? I agree with the second sub first before amps though. Since you want to upset neighbors with bass the subs will do it before the amps will.
I have a Yamaha RX-V373 and are you guys sure that purchasing a second sub first then going for the towers then amp would be good? I have Bic America FT-6T for my fronts.
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Running the front speakers as large with the sub could result in less deep bass! Set the speakers to small and let the subs do the heavy work.
Are you sure I have seen videos of these speakers on YouTube and they shake and hit harder then my hsu sub woofer. They say on the specs page the Cerwins go down to 20Hz and my HSU goes down to 18HZ. I cant say how low it goes because of microphone recording cant pick it up as anything but distortion. If I set them to small hardly any bass will go to them, so what would be a good pair of front towers that are around 500-700 each that would sound amazing with highs and mids with a separate amp?
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post #8 of 18 Old 01-25-2014, 04:29 PM - Thread Starter
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any ideal on speakers?
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post #9 of 18 Old 01-26-2014, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twisterdude1009 View Post

Are you sure I have seen videos of these speakers on YouTube and they shake and hit harder then my hsu sub woofer. They say on the specs page the Cerwins go down to 20Hz and my HSU goes down to 18HZ. I cant say how low it goes because of microphone recording cant pick it up as anything but distortion. If I set them to small hardly any bass will go to them...

So from watching a video you can tell that a pair of speakers hit harder than your sub? I don't know what to believe about these speakers. CV states it will hit "earth-shaking bass down to 24 Hz." in their product description, but lower down on the same page states the F3 point is 38Hz. and F10 is 36Hz. That's one heck of a brick wall slope that would be hard to overcome even with room gain . My speakers have an F3 of 23Hz and F10 of 17Hz. I've measured them flat to 18Hz in my room. Even with those numbers, they can't hold a candle to my home built, sealed 10" sub in the bass frequencies once I turn up the volume. I'm pretty sure your HSU sub will outperform my 12" sub as the HSU is rated down to 16Hz IIRC. I'm sure the CV will do well with mid bass, but I still think you should forget about getting a separate amp just so you can run them l full range. Your sub can do a better job and the money you spend on an external amp can go to a second sub where you will, no doubt, actually hear an improvement. You say you want house shaking bass that your neighbors will hate you for. Multiple subs will do that much easier than a pair of main speakers will.
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...so what would be a good pair of front towers that are around 500-700 each that would sound amazing with highs and mids with a separate amp?

Do they have to be towers? I would recommend a good pair of bookshelves and invest the rest on subs. For bookshelves look into Revel M106. How far do you sit from your speakers and how loud (in dBs) do you want to be able to listen to them? Just saying really loud is open to interpretation. Very loud to my GF is moderate to me. Not sure what your insistence on external amplification is. If there is no need, there is no need. Don't go out looking for a pair of speakers that require external amplification to sound good because they have low sensitivity. Buy a pair of good sounding speakers for their sound. I would much rather by a good pair of speakers for $1400 than a pair of mediocre speakers for $700 + amplifier for another $700.
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post #10 of 18 Old 01-26-2014, 07:57 PM
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any ideal on speakers?

Sure, theres the Paradigm Monitor 7 or 9. Floorstanders from Polk's Rti series and many others.
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post #11 of 18 Old 01-26-2014, 08:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Do they have to be towers? I would recommend a good pair of bookshelves and invest the rest on subs. For bookshelves look into Revel M106. How far do you sit from your speakers and how loud (in dBs) do you want to be able to listen to them? Just saying really loud is open to interpretation. Very loud to my GF is moderate to me. Not sure what your insistence on external amplification is. If there is no need, there is no need. Don't go out looking for a pair of speakers that require external amplification to sound good because they have low sensitivity. Buy a pair of good sounding speakers for their sound. I would much rather by a good pair of speakers for $1400 than a pair of mediocre speakers for $700 + amplifier for another $700.
The speakers for the fronts I want to be floor speakers. I was looking at the Polk Audio RTI A9 and JBL L890 What do you think?
I want to have amazing highs and mids that can be so loud you cant hear yourself talk. I want bass so low and loud when it hits your chest you feel your ribs vibrate lol.
I sit 11 feet from my speakers.
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post #12 of 18 Old 01-27-2014, 12:41 AM - Thread Starter
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this is my current setup.
1700 for the speakers and receiver and about 280 for Monster HTS 5100 Power Protector and filter.
Getting a 3D HD Projector soon and a 100-130 inch screen and glasses
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Sure, theres the Paradigm Monitor 7 or 9. Floor standers from Polk's Rti series and many others.
I like the 9s, I was also looking at the magnepan MG12 for the fronts.
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post #13 of 18 Old 01-27-2014, 12:42 AM - Thread Starter
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This is what is providing my audio and video
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post #14 of 18 Old 01-27-2014, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by twisterdude1009 View Post

this is my current setup.
1700 for the speakers and receiver and about 280 for Monster HTS 5100 Power Protector and filter.
Getting a 3D HD Projector soon and a 100-130 inch screen and glasses
I like the 9s, I was also looking at the magnepan MG12 for the fronts.

Those MG12's will be hard to drive with your current AVR. I don't think the Yamaha you have will do it to be honest.
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post #15 of 18 Old 01-27-2014, 07:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Those MG12's will be hard to drive with your current AVR. I don't think the Yamaha you have will do it to be honest.
Thats what im thinking what is a good 5.1 amp or and external amp I could hook up to the yammy to power the front two or possible even front 3 L C R? If the yammy and another amp couldnt do it, what would be a good amp+external amp or single amp to power the front two channels and center? I only want 5.2
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post #16 of 18 Old 01-27-2014, 09:24 PM - Thread Starter
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maybe this Sony STR-DN1040 7.2? But will the 7.2 play in 5.2 supporting these speakers?
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post #17 of 18 Old 01-28-2014, 06:07 AM
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maybe this Sony STR-DN1040 7.2? But will the 7.2 play in 5.2 supporting these speakers?

If you are not in Canada the one below would be a better choice IMO. You could buy it and try it out with the speakers you want. Would still possibly have problems with those 4 ohm speakers. But it does give you the option to add a 5 channel amp of your choice later if indeed it is needed. Price is hard to beat.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?gclid=CI6eydCEobwCFZTm7AodeEoAAw&Item=N82E16882115377&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-_-pla-_-Receivers-_-N82E16882115377&ef_id=UucMbwAAARoslRdz:20140128140331:s
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post #18 of 18 Old 01-28-2014, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twisterdude1009 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom52 View Post

What AVR are you using? Have I overlooked it? I agree with the second sub first before amps though. Since you want to upset neighbors with bass the subs will do it before the amps will.
I have a Yamaha RX-V373 and are you guys sure that purchasing a second sub first then going for the towers then amp would be good? I have Bic America FT-6T for my fronts.
Quote:
Running the front speakers as large with the sub could result in less deep bass! Set the speakers to small and let the subs do the heavy work.
Are you sure I have seen videos of these speakers on YouTube and they shake and hit harder then my hsu sub woofer. They say on the specs page the Cerwins go down to 20Hz and my HSU goes down to 18HZ. I cant say how low it goes because of microphone recording cant pick it up as anything but distortion. If I set them to small hardly any bass will go to them, so what would be a good pair of front towers that are around 500-700 each that would sound amazing with highs and mids with a separate amp?

Actually the only meaningful spec on the spec sheet is this one:

38 Hz - 20 kHz (-3 dB),

The general rule is that frequency response ranges mean nothing without a dB tolerance because without the dB tolerance how do you know that the range isn't taken at 10 or 20 dB down?

38 Hz - 20 kHz (-3 dB)

That's OK for a full range speaker, but its not even a blip in the world of good subwoofers. Let's talk 20 Hz. Let's talk 10 Hz!

As far as booming response goes, the goal of reproducing music and drama is to rattle people's guts when appropriate, not just make their chests boom with the bass.
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