Yamaha recievers that shutdown during loud passages (Might be the entire product line) - Page 2 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Does your Yamaha reciever shutdown when play scenes with loud bass such as explosions when volumes a
Yes 3 10.71%
No 21 75.00%
I bough my reciever to listen to music and movies at low volumes and I'm not going to risk my hearing or equipment to give you an answer. 4 14.29%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

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post #31 of 119 Old 01-30-2014, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony.tam View Post

Please let me know if you can tell me how to get into the self-diagnostic's I cant seem to find that anywhere. While trying to adjust the volume right on the 773 I did actually shutdown 3 or 4 times and now it wont turn back of. I would appreciate it if you can tell me how to clear it.

I don't have the 673 Service Manual, but the 667 SM is here (link). The section "SELF-DIAGNOSTIC FUNCTION" should tell you how to find out the reason for the shutdowns. Hopefully the method of entering the self-diagnostic mode is the same on the 673.

Page 27 of the 667 SM seems to say that just entering the diagnostic mode will allow you to turn on a unit that went into protection. If the method described doesn't work on the 673, you might find some other posts that are more relevant (I'm pretty sure someone did post the instructions at one point).
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post #32 of 119 Old 01-30-2014, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon S View Post

The Yamaha 663 is only rated at 95watts/channel. I have a 2400 which is rated at 120watts. In a magazine, with all channels driven, the actual power output was tested at only 35 watts before clipping. Your 663 weighs 25 lbs. Obviously the amp has a small power supply so figure the real power would be in the 20-watt range with all channels driven. It's not going to take much to clip the amps into protection, especially with B&W speakers which usually are low impedance speakers which taxes most amps.

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/yamaha-rx-v663-av-receiver-measurements

According to the measurements, it hit 47W x 7 at 0.1% THD. S&V tests are down at 1KHz, obviously it won't manage 47W x 7 at 20Hz, but if you've got a subwoofer and run a >80Hz crossover the receiver should be able to hit it's measured benchmarks during movie playback, although obviously video and audio processing takes some power consumption as well.

Also if a 25lb receiver was only capable of 20W/channel, then that would apply to most Marantz, Denon, Yamaha, or Pioneer receivers under $1000...which obviously isn't the case.
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post #33 of 119 Old 01-30-2014, 10:08 PM
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I will disregard all the information about at what point we can actually hear THD. With that said, since when is the gold standard .1% let alone 1%. The rx v663 makes 46w@ .09% , I have a pioneer amp 35yrs old that puts out 65w @ .009% thd. A real world standard that manufactures must legally adhere to is badly needed so we can all compare apples to apples.

AS for the OP's original inquiry, it would seem that the pre-outs are exceeding the limits of its design, perhaps a line level booster like used in automotive car stereo arena would help drive the amp to its limits..
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post #34 of 119 Old 01-31-2014, 05:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

I don't have the 673 Service Manual, but the 667 SM is here (link). The section "SELF-DIAGNOSTIC FUNCTION" should tell you how to find out the reason for the shutdowns. Hopefully the method of entering the self-diagnostic mode is the same on the 673.

Page 27 of the 667 SM seems to say that just entering the diagnostic mode will allow you to turn on a unit that went into protection. If the method described doesn't work on the 673, you might find some other posts that are more relevant (I'm pretty sure someone did post the instructions at one point).

Thanks the self-diagnostic mode was successful in turning my 773 back on, and I was able to see in the history that the shutdown reason was DC, values 30, 31, 29, and 31.

Cause: DC output of the power amplifier is abnormal.
Supplementary information: The protection function worked due to a DC voltage appearing at the speaker terminal. A
cause could be a defect in the amplifier.
Turning on the power without correcting the abnormality will cause the protection function to work in 3 seconds and the
power supply will be shut off.
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post #35 of 119 Old 01-31-2014, 05:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony.tam View Post

Nope, you don't even need to use a amp. You can do the test with just the Yamaha receiver and disconnecting the speakers. I did the test with the 2 higher end Yamaha units with the speakers disconnected. The sales person also though it was weird and did not feel that should happen.

I see no place in the user guide where disconnecting speakers fully disables the AVR's power amps. If you find such a feature, please let me know so that I might inform myself better.

If the power amps are connected to the preamps in the AVR , then they are producing voltage at their output. No load = no current, but the voltage waveform is still being produced.

The protection circuits in an AVR are almost always hooked to the AVR's power amplifier outputs.

If you are overdriving the AVR's amplfiers even with no load attached, its protection circuits may be activated for any number of reasons. A DC residual may be generated, for example. This may be miinimized if the amps are driving load resistors of a suitable resistance and wattage. Or not.

My best advice is: "Don't do that!" ;-)
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post #36 of 119 Old 01-31-2014, 07:18 AM
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These AVR companies just need to start making affordable pre-amps instead of having these amps burning in the background... People just don't want to spend 5k on a overpriced boutique preamp with outdated tech and no better sound quality...
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post #37 of 119 Old 01-31-2014, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Emig5m View Post

These AVR companies just need to start making affordable pre-amps instead of having these amps burning in the background...

It is all about economies of scale.

BTW an unloaded amp does not burn when it is not loaded.
Quote:
People just don't want to spend 5k on a overpriced boutique preamp with outdated tech and no better sound quality...

It is all about economies of scale. ;-)
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post #38 of 119 Old 01-31-2014, 08:57 PM
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It's also about price points - the cheap amps people buy they don't want preamps only. I. Fact, if you make a $300 preamp, people will say ot's absolutely lousy because you need another component to go along with it, when they could buy a complete receiver with power amp for the same price. The people who buy the cheap stuff are a completely different market with different expectations.

Hell, I bet any manufacturer who does gets dropped post haste as people buy it and return it because it isn't complete.

And no, those guys also don't generally read avs.
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post #39 of 119 Old 01-31-2014, 10:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, that's why I like the Yamaha's. I've been able to get them about a year or so old from Newegg for about 1/2 price of retail.

Well the expensive units do have better SQ, however I've found the higher end RX units being able to do most of what I need. Now that I got my 773 running again I able to look for the sweet spot and actually found that I can set my 773 at 0 and not have issues. I think the issues start happening around +10 with movies and +3 on Pandora. So this is a big improvement over the 765 which had issues at -7. I'm able to get enough volume and have my noise floor low enough!

Thanks everyone for providing a wealth of information.

SDV5, looks like the preamp section appears to be improved over the 765.
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post #40 of 119 Old 01-31-2014, 10:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

I see no place in the user guide where disconnecting speakers fully disables the AVR's power amps. If you find such a feature, please let me know so that I might inform myself better.

If the power amps are connected to the preamps in the AVR , then they are producing voltage at their output. No load = no current, but the voltage waveform is still being produced.

The protection circuits in an AVR are almost always hooked to the AVR's power amplifier outputs.

If you are overdriving the AVR's amplfiers even with no load attached, its protection circuits may be activated for any number of reasons. A DC residual may be generated, for example. This may be miinimized if the amps are driving load resistors of a suitable resistance and wattage. Or not.

My best advice is: "Don't do that!" ;-)

I never implied that disconnecting the speakers turn off the internal amp. From what I was told there is no way to turn off the internal amp. However I do think it's running as the receiver feels too warm to be without a amp running by my guess.
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post #41 of 119 Old 01-31-2014, 10:18 PM
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Tony did you connect directly to the Yamaha or are you still using that old nad receiver as a stereo amplifier?
I bought the 773 from newegg last year mainly because it was the cheapest full featured receiver with full
preamp out. It only has a 400 watt power supply. I have an emotiva xpa-5 available if needed. It has a fixed
gain. Basically the same as turning that nad up to full volume and leaving it there. The xpa5 has tweeter hiss
barely audible from 1" away at full volume. Modern receivers should not be played at full volume. Just curious
how you have everything connected now that it is working properly.
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post #42 of 119 Old 02-01-2014, 10:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kikkenit2 View Post

Tony did you connect directly to the Yamaha or are you still using that old nad receiver as a stereo amplifier?
I bought the 773 from newegg last year mainly because it was the cheapest full featured receiver with full
preamp out. It only has a 400 watt power supply. I have an emotiva xpa-5 available if needed. It has a fixed
gain. Basically the same as turning that nad up to full volume and leaving it there. The xpa5 has tweeter hiss
barely audible from 1" away at full volume. Modern receivers should not be played at full volume. Just curious
how you have everything connected now that it is working properly.

The NAD is still powering the speakers. The power supply is also what worries me. The nad is rated at 4.2 A which should give it about a 500W power supply so even though the NAD is only rated for 80X5 RMS at .08 THD vs. Yamaha's 95x2 RMS at .09 THD.

Originally when I received the receiver my test was to see if the amp still shut down when it was maxed and I played the U-571 which I knew shutdown my old 765. I was initially told my 765 was somewhat defective when the tech I spoke to at that time also assured me that it should not shutdown. At that time I never even though of going and testing other receivers. I just adjusted my volume to a point where it did not shutoff too much. Then I saw the sale on the 773, and I really wanted simplfy things by being able to push 3d through the receiver and being able to get the HD audio from my blu-rays. With the 765 I ran the hdmi to my tv to get the 3d, and ran a optical to the 765 for the audio, however only the SD versions of audio is passed through unencrypted connections.

Shortly after getting it I was trying to tune the 773 to the right level for me and got locked out of the receiver because rather than starting from low to high I chose high to low to see where I could find that the receiver not shutting off. Currently my setting is 0 for the 773 which supplies enough signal for the NAD to drive the SPL to sufficient levels. I generally listen with the NAD at -20 to -10 so that still give me up to -5 where I start hearing some noise. which I think might be a slight ground loop?

Now that some of the older 5 channel amps have really come down in price I'm thinking about getting one so I can do all the control from the 773, as it really nice to be able to change the volume the device while using airplay.

You have the XPA5 connected full time? I know going to a real AMP pretty much all my problems will be solved. Maybe I should think that Yamaha is the only one that offers pre-amp clipping protection, however it would be nice if the protection just dialed back the output rather than shutting down making me loose picture for a second.
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post #43 of 119 Old 02-01-2014, 11:33 AM
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I originally bought the emotiva amp about 5 years ago when I bought a new Onkyo 1007.
That thing ran so hot, but the amp didn't help much. The hdmi board on onkyo's put out
so much heat 24/7. Then I bought a Denon 4311 new and gave the 1007 to my best friend.

I used the xpa-5 for a while on the 4311 to do a 11.2 setup. Then I just used the receiver
with a 9.2 setup. That thing is a beast. 1000 watt power supply! I still have it in a box.

After that I started buying cheaper receivers with full preamp out a must. Next I got the
Pioneer 1121 on a closeout sale. I hooked the emotiva up to that for a year. Then last
summer newegg had the Yamaha 773 on closeout for $480 so I bought one. I knew it
had a weak power supply, but I didn't care with 5x200 watts ready to go.

I retired young (53) and paid cash for a new sportscar, 2 new motorcycles, 4 huge subwoofers
and about 50 bookshelf, center and satellite speakers. Finally ran low on money and had to
move away from the beach. So 10 months ago I bought a 10 year old 5 bedroom house with
a 3 car garage to store all my toys.

The living room is an open design with the kitchen and dining room all in one huge room with
16' high ceiling. Like living in a barn. Not very easy to mount speakers all around me. So currently
I am only using 2 4 ohm bookshelf with a svs pb12+ subwoofer connected to the 773. Music in
2.1 goes 110db at mlp easy. I watch mostly sports, but do have hbo/showtime with directv.

I have a mp3 favorites folder of 7600 songs so I stream music from my laptop using airplay.
My galaxy s4 will stream music several ways to the 773, but it can't hold all my songs. I am
able to stream video from the phone to the receiver with a microusb to mhl/hdmi cable. Don't
really need to with the dvr's. I have 8 of those connected to the receiver.

I don't have any tower speakers and I have never owned a receiver that can be used as a
standalone amp. I've seen plenty of pictures of them though. I'm pretty sure that nad will
only put out full power when the volume is turned all the way up. So you are probably not
sending near the power you think to the towers.

It still takes some load off the Yamaha though. Even powering a 8 ohm center with two 4 ohm
surrounds may be upsetting the 773. I can guarantee that a 5 channel amp will drive your 5.0
setup super loud without cranking the volume knob way up on the 773. Amps are not cheap,
but pretty much last forever.

I don't really need another receiver, but if this thing drops to $400 I may buy a spare. I like
Yamaha because they have more input buttons than any other mainstream brand. I use up
all the hdmi ports just with my dvr's. Every brand I have used sounds fine to me with decent
speakers and proper setup. Operating these receivers can be complicated for sure. The 2013
models didn't really offer much that the 2012 models don't have.

The 1030 and above does add 2 different simultaneous hdmi video outs which would be nice.
And the 2030/3030 offer subwoofer eq (even dual) for way more money. I'm basically watching
for a good closeout deal on a 2013 model after the 14's come out. I may have to sell some of
those speakers first. But i'll never sell the xpa-5. Piece of mind in case I go into protect like you did.
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post #44 of 119 Old 02-01-2014, 01:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Yea hang onto that xpa-5. I'm sure all my problems will be solved with a quality amp. Im pretty sure I've never driven full output on the nad. And the soft clip protection gives me piece of mind.

Even back when the nad was new I never cranked up the volume full so I knew it had plenty of power for me. Ive even had soft clip off for a while back then and never ran into clipping.

Newegg has the 773 down to 430 now so you might be getting a spare soon. smile.gif at some the prices im seeing old 5 channels at I'll probably pick up something soon.

Congrats and enjoy retirement.
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post #45 of 119 Old 02-01-2014, 02:03 PM
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Thanks. Retired in may 2010 and moved to 1/8 mile above the San Clemente pier.
I have a daughter that lives in Laguna Niguel. I miss south orange county.
I don't miss getting up early and going to work every day.
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post #46 of 119 Old 02-01-2014, 02:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Kikkenit2 do you mind shareing whay you'll test was that didnt shutdown? I'd like to try.
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post #47 of 119 Old 02-01-2014, 04:46 PM
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I have 2 bookshelf speakers rated 150 watts rms 4 ohm set to small and a subwoofer
on the preout in a 2.1 configuration. I disconnected all 3 speakers and played a hd movie
from channel hbo/showtime with audio output set to dolby digital.

Then I cranked the receiver volume all the way up to +16.5 or max. It didn't shut down.
With the speakers connected that probably would have been 120db c weighted 10' from
speakers. I have a radiio shack digital sound level meter. Approx. $50 new.

I could try connecting five or seven 4 ohm speakers, but I prefer not to. I don't remember
what movie was playing during the test. A few years ago I did play 7 channel music at full
volume with no distortion or shutdown. I can't remember if I had the 5 channel amp connected
at the time. I did report that here in a thread. Maybe advance search my posts from a few years
ago for better details.

I could hook up the emotiva, but I know what that thing will do. Super loud all day long. My lot
is only 1/5 acre so neighbors are close on both sides. And my ears have enough damage already.
I was a survey party chief around heavy construction for 35 years. Lots of sound exposure.

I do own a ps3 bluray player, but never use it. I don't own any disks of any kind. I am thinking
about buying an audio/video setup disk. And I am considering getting a usb mic for room eq
wizard (rew) to better test/setup my systems. I just bought a second tv so I am going to use
that room to test/demo my other equipment so I can sell some.

Forgot to mention I also still own an emotive upa-7 amp and a QSC pro style stereo amp (about
600 watts per channel) and a Dayton Audio 1000 watt class d plate amp almost new in reserve.

I have been installing amps in my cars for 30 years and have tons of all that stuff too. I love clean
sound, amps and subwoofers. When I got bored with that I did spirited rides through Ortega highway,
Palomar mountain and Glendora mtn. road on my 1 liter crotch rocket.

Busy watching supercross and ufc mma tonite. Coax me with something specific and I will try it sunday.
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post #48 of 119 Old 02-01-2014, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony.tam View Post

Thanks the self-diagnostic mode was successful in turning my 773 back on, and I was able to see in the history that the shutdown reason was DC, values 30, 31, 29, and 31.

Cause: DC output of the power amplifier is abnormal.
Supplementary information: The protection function worked due to a DC voltage appearing at the speaker terminal. A
cause could be a defect in the amplifier.
Turning on the power without correcting the abnormality will cause the protection function to work in 3 seconds and the
power supply will be shut off.

Oh, wow. Thanks, Tony, for digging into the diagnostics to uncover the error message. So, your initial guess was spot on, and I stand corrected together with Audioholics review. Even with external power amp connected to pre-out jacks, Yamaha receiver will shut down because its internal power amp is producing high DC voltage at the speaker terminals that have no load. Well, that is just crazy. A receiver driving an external amp should not shut down for this reason. But, it appears that Yamaha does. They should really fix this glitch or give user the option of disconnecting built-in power amp if another external amp is connected to pre-outs. Thanks again for getting to the bottom of this issue.
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post #49 of 119 Old 02-01-2014, 06:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kikkenit2 View Post

I have 2 bookshelf speakers rated 150 watts rms 4 ohm set to small and a subwoofer
on the preout in a 2.1 configuration. I disconnected all 3 speakers and played a hd movie
from channel hbo/showtime with audio output set to dolby digital.

Then I cranked the receiver volume all the way up to +16.5 or max. It didn't shut down.
With the speakers connected that probably would have been 120db c weighted 10' from
speakers. I have a radiio shack digital sound level meter. Approx. $50 new.

I could try connecting five or seven 4 ohm speakers, but I prefer not to. I don't remember
what movie was playing during the test. A few years ago I did play 7 channel music at full
volume with no distortion or shutdown. I can't remember if I had the 5 channel amp connected
at the time. I did report that here in a thread. Maybe advance search my posts from a few years
ago for better details.

I could hook up the emotiva, but I know what that thing will do. Super loud all day long. My lot
is only 1/5 acre so neighbors are close on both sides. And my ears have enough damage already.
I was a survey party chief around heavy construction for 35 years. Lots of sound exposure.
then
I do own a ps3 bluray player, but never use it. I don't own any disks of any kind. I am thinking
about buying an audio/video setup disk. And I am considering getting a usb mic for room eq
wizard (rew) to better test/setup my systems. I just bought a second tv so I am going to use
that room to test/demo my other equipment so I can sell some.

Forgot to mention I also still own an emotive upa-7 amp and a QSC pro style stereo amp (about
600 watts per channel) and a Dayton Audio 1000 watt class d plate amp almost new in reserve.

I have been installing amps in my cars for 30 years and have tons of all that stuff too. I love clean
sound, amps and subwoofers. When I got bored with that I did spirited rides through Ortega highway,
Palomar mountain and Glendora mtn. road on my 1 liter crotch rocket.

Busy watching supercross and ufc mma tonite. Coax me with something specific and I will try it sunday.

Okay, there are specific conditions to cause the shutdown, simply playing audio at max does not cause it to shutdown. Since you have HBO and Showtime and DVR I'll see if I can find any movies that will cause it. Then maybe you can record it and play that position if you are up for it. I don't think I can find it in time for sunday, but if I can find a scene I'll let you know and if you have room on your DVR you can record it and try it later.

I'm not sure if Iron Man 3 is still playing but the scene at the end with all the Iron Men has many explosions that cause the shutdown at high volumes.
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post #50 of 119 Old 02-01-2014, 06:40 PM
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Yea I was thinking the same thing. I have every movie channel. I'll record iron man and any other movie u want in the near future.
I'll move that receiver upstairs and connect 7 speakers without a subwoofer. Don't mind pinning down the problem scenarios.
Even though both outputs stay hot manual says don't use both so I won't try that. I have pretty much any kind of source except lossless.
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post #51 of 119 Old 02-01-2014, 06:44 PM
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Iron man 3 is on tonite. Found iron man 2 also. I heard those were good movies.
About time I watched it. I'm gonna want to hook up my subwoofer at some point. lol
I didn't buy a $1400 subwoofer to play it quiet. Let it rumble!
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post #52 of 119 Old 02-01-2014, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by sdv5 View Post

Oh, wow. Thanks, Tony, for digging into the diagnostics to uncover the error message. So, your initial guess was spot on, and I stand corrected together with Audioholics review. Even with external power amp connected to pre-out jacks, Yamaha receiver will shut down because its internal power amp is producing high DC voltage at the speaker terminals that have no load. Well, that is just crazy. A receiver driving an external amp should not shut down for this reason. But, it appears that Yamaha does. They should really fix this glitch or give user the option of disconnecting built-in power amp if another external amp is connected to pre-outs. Thanks again for getting to the bottom of this issue.

Except shutting down for DC is completely reasonable - a DC voltage on the speaker terminals means it heats up the speaker unnecessarily (AC is what causes the speaker cone to vibrate - DC just moves it. Too much DC and you'll blow the speaker. Hence shutting down.

Of course, is the pre outs are line level, they're supposed to only a +/- 1V signal into 1kOhm, not +/- 3V...
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post #53 of 119 Old 02-01-2014, 08:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sdv5 View Post

Oh, wow. Thanks, Tony, for digging into the diagnostics to uncover the error message. So, your initial guess was spot on, and I stand corrected together with Audioholics review. Even with external power amp connected to pre-out jacks, Yamaha receiver will shut down because its internal power amp is producing high DC voltage at the speaker terminals that have no load. Well, that is just crazy. A receiver driving an external amp should not shut down for this reason. But, it appears that Yamaha does. They should really fix this glitch or give user the option of disconnecting built-in power amp if another external amp is connected to pre-outs. Thanks again for getting to the bottom of this issue.

Actually it was the tech I talked to that told me the amp was clipping even though there's no speaker connected. I did not believe him however the service menu and error codes appear to confirm he was right.

I also believe that even this is behavior as design that it's not acceptable. Maybe Yamaha will be willing to listen if more people speak out. As far as I know Yamaha receivers are the only one that does this. Let me know if you have trouble replicating this behavior, but as 1 my voice will be silenced, but if more owners speak out maybe we can have this working in a way we expect it to.
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Originally Posted by Worf View Post

Except shutting down for DC is completely reasonable - a DC voltage on the speaker terminals means it heats up the speaker unnecessarily (AC is what causes the speaker cone to vibrate - DC just moves it. Too much DC and you'll blow the speaker. Hence shutting down.

Of course, is the pre outs are line level, they're supposed to only a +/- 1V signal into 1kOhm, not +/- 3V...

The 3 in the error does not necessarily equal to 3V, I have not found out what the value actually is in V yet. However it's believed to be 2.8 per reference to the A1010
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Originally Posted by Worf View Post

Except shutting down for DC is completely reasonable - a DC voltage on the speaker terminals means it heats up the speaker unnecessarily (AC is what causes the speaker cone to vibrate - DC just moves it. Too much DC and you'll blow the speaker. Hence shutting down.

Of course, is the pre outs are line level, they're supposed to only a +/- 1V signal into 1kOhm, not +/- 3V...

Why should the built-in power amp shut down the receiver if it's used only as a pre-processor to drive an external power amp? There are no speakers connected to the receiver at all as Tony explained earlier in the thread.
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post #56 of 119 Old 02-01-2014, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by tony.tam View Post

... The only reason I turn up the volume on my Yamaha is so I can have a lower volume from my NAD T 761 [emphasis added]. I'm attempting to use the Yamaha as a preamp and control the volume through the NAD as the noise level is a bit higher in the NAD. I probably could skip my NAD all together but I like the sound from the NAD, and it does provide more clean power, at least on paper.
 

 

That is the source of your problem.  You are effectively lowering the level from the Yamaha to feed your NAD by using the volume control of the NAD to turn it down.  Thus, you end up overdriving the preamp outputs of your Yamaha trying to compensate.  So you need to stop doing that.

 

 

You should probably simply forget about the NAD entirely, and just use the Yamaha.  But if you are going to use the NAD, you should turn up its volume control, and then the "problem" with the Yamaha will disappear, because you will not need to turn the Yamaha up so high.  And by the way, your terminology is a bit off, as the volume control is a preamp function, yet you say you want to control the volume from the NAD while using the Yamaha as a preamp.  If you were really properly using the Yamaha as a preamp, you would control the volume from the Yamaha.  If you are going to use the NAD with it as if the NAD were a power amp, you should set the volume of the NAD such that the Yamaha's volume control never has to be turned up as high as you presently wish to turn it.

 

 

You write as though the Yamaha is defective.  The reality is, you are misusing it.


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Originally Posted by Worf View Post

Except shutting down for DC is completely reasonable - a DC voltage on the speaker terminals means it heats up the speaker unnecessarily (AC is what causes the speaker cone to vibrate - DC just moves it. Too much DC and you'll blow the speaker. Hence shutting down.

Of course, is the pre outs are line level, they're supposed to only a +/- 1V signal into 1kOhm, not +/- 3V...

The 3 in the error does not necessarily equal to 3V, I have not found out what the value actually is in V yet. However it's believed to be 2.8 per reference to the A1010
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Originally Posted by Jack D Ripper View Post

That is the source of your problem.  You are effectively lowering the level from the Yamaha to feed your NAD by using the volume control of the NAD to turn it down.  Thus, you end up overdriving the preamp outputs of your Yamaha trying to compensate.  So you need to stop doing that.


You should probably simply forget about the NAD entirely, and just use the Yamaha.  But if you are going to use the NAD, you should turn up its volume control, and then the "problem" with the Yamaha will disappear, because you will not need to turn the Yamaha up so high.  And by the way, your terminology is a bit off, as the volume control is a preamp function, yet you say you want to control the volume from the NAD while using the Yamaha as a preamp.  If you were really properly using the Yamaha as a preamp, you would control the volume from the Yamaha.  If you are going to use the NAD with it as if the NAD were a power amp, you should set the volume of the NAD such that the Yamaha's volume control never has to be turned up as high as you presently wish to turn it.


You write as though the Yamaha is defective.  The reality is, you are misusing it.

I understand you point. However I've noticed while listening to Pandora or watching youtube even at volumes of 0 I can have shutoffs. And on my old 765 I even had problems at -7. I'm not totally sure this is accurate however the Yamahas have a lower limit of -80 and a upper limit of +16 I'll say the range is 96. at -7 I was 23 away from the max, which means I was using the preamp at about 74%. You are free to believe that using it to 74% is misusing it. However I'm stating that anyone using external amps and playing material at anything above -7 will shutdown the receiver when the condition is right. The problem will not disappear. Playing the same scene without a amp or speakers connected will still shut it down. I will not matter if the amp is a 20W amp or 1000W amp. Even if someone has a 1000W amp they can still play the receiver up to levels of 0 or above.

However you are right, with a proper amp I may be less likely to run into the condition. However I often encounter quite passages in movies so I have to have the receiver at a "Loud" volume to hear clearly. I don't feel that constantly adjusting the volume during a movie to be acceptable. Ideally I like to hit play and just be able to enjoy the movie to the end.

I don't believe the Yamaha is defective, I believe it's working as designed. I'm just wondering why they are the only company in the industry that exhibits this behavior.
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MMm... then you would think this forum would be littered with complaints? I could run my 663 at 0 volume all day with the Emotiva and never experience a shutdown. And isn't it true that unless you're calibrated to have 0Db as reference volume that the number of the volume level becomes meaningless and that you could be hitting max volume output at whatever random volume setting? +16 on the volume, yea ok.... eek.gif Catastrophic failure of something I'm sure, regardless if calibrated or not, lol.... eek.gif
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Originally Posted by Emig5m View Post

MMm... then you would think this forum would be littered with complaints? I could run my 663 at 0 volume all day with the Emotiva and never experience a shutdown. And isn't it true that unless you're calibrated to have 0Db as reference volume that the number of the volume level becomes meaningless and that you could be hitting max volume output at whatever random volume setting? +16 on the volume, yea ok.... eek.gif Catastrophic failure of something I'm sure, regardless if calibrated or not, lol.... eek.gif

I am surprised that I have not seen more complaints. I believe your 663 was the 1 generation before my 765. Running at -7 the frequency of shutdown was low. I still did had shutdowns once in a while. 0Db by itself is a meaningless number. However when combined with additional details such a specific source such as a Blu-ray, specific time, and scene that causes a shutdown then I feel it is pretty useful. Especially if another person can recreate the issue playing the same material.

I've included details so others can attempt to recreate it if they wish.

I just find it very odd that the Yamaha receivers shutdown when playing specific material at max volume. As I've stated before I tried this with at least 2 different Blu-ray players on 4 different receivers. The condition is extreme however while in the showroom I confirmed with at least 2 other brands that they did not shutdown playing the same loop using the same Blu-ray player so it appears that I'm only overdriving Yamaha receivers and all other receivers do not shutdown. However the other receivers may be clipping and causing damage to equipment. Since a Yamaha level 2 tech has told me that it is the internal amp that has reached an extreme condition causing the shutdown even though it is not driving anything. Are all the other manufactures willing to take the risk the equipment will damage and are willing to warranty their product in the event that happens? I doubt that would be the case.
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