Yamaha recievers that shutdown during loud passages (Might be the entire product line) - Page 4 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Does your Yamaha reciever shutdown when play scenes with loud bass such as explosions when volumes a
Yes 3 10.71%
No 21 75.00%
I bough my reciever to listen to music and movies at low volumes and I'm not going to risk my hearing or equipment to give you an answer. 4 14.29%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

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post #91 of 119 Old 02-21-2014, 04:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kikkenit2 View Post

Exactly. I told him from day 1 (starting in the 773 thread) that he was doing it wrong and having to turn the yamaha way too far up.
And he claims to live in an apartment where he can't play it that loud. I bought a big house and I still worry about my neighbors
getting mad. Even without the external amps. My testing proved that this receiver likes all speakers small with a .1 attached compared
to a bunch of large speakers. 5.1 internal only is super loud. 5.1 all external is insanely loud. I could barely stay in the room to read
the sound meter with earplugs and my thumbs pushing them in deeper. If I had towers I would use the external amps, but I don't need it.

I'm not saying the 773 is perfect, but for what I paid it is the best all around value. I could use a denon 4311 with a 780 watt power supply
and 11.2 capabilities instead. It doesn't find my laptop mp3 folders or have hdmi standby passthrough. The 773 doesn't have audyssey xt32,
but it sounds just as good to me and is easier to use/operate to me. At least I have the external rca out if I need it (change speakers).
Tony did at least bail on the NAD receiver.

BTW, next time set the db meter on peak hold, and go outside the house and control the volume via wifi on your laptop. wink.gif I'm assuming you have wifi and laptop.
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post #92 of 119 Old 02-21-2014, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kikkenit2 View Post

I agree there is a slight design flaw here.

Not a design flaw..
The AVR is protecting itself which is exactly what the protection circuit is intended to do...
The CPU/protection circuit monitors multiple parameters including input driver gain to the amplifiers, heat sink temperature, power transformer temperature, load impedance, output voltage and current thresholds..
No difference than the CPU/rev limiter in a Corvette..
It make multiple adjustments given torque load, wheel spin, fuel octane, tweaks for altitude fuel mixture/timing advance, engine temperature of oil, coolant and transmission

Yes..
The Corvette can still do 165MPH but if reved beyond 6200 RPM the rev limiter kicks in...

Just my $0.05..
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post #93 of 119 Old 02-21-2014, 04:34 PM
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Hsu 15", Elemental Design 15" (A5) & two brand new (2012) SVS PB12+ (currently $1400 each shipped).
The 12"ers actually outperform the 15"s. More power and heavier magnets.
Never brave enough to connect more than 2 at once. That was my old apartment
by the beach. Probably would have blown the house fuses anyway. I was doing 11.2
with the denon with mostly 4 ohm mtm center speakers and a few bookshelfs. I had the 5 mains
on the emotive xpa-5 and the other 6 internal amps. All channel stereo was pretty loud.

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post #94 of 119 Old 02-21-2014, 04:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

Not a design flaw..
The AVR is protecting itself which is exactly what the protection circuit is intended to do...
The CPU/protection circuit monitors multiple parameters including input driver gain to the amplifiers, heat sink temperature, power transformer temperature, load impedance, output voltage and current thresholds..
No difference than the CPU/rev limiter in a Corvette..
It make multiple adjustments given torque load, wheel spin, fuel octane, tweaks for altitude fuel mixture/timing advance, engine temperature of oil, coolant and transmission

Yes..
The Corvette can still do 165MPH but if reved beyond 6200 RPM the rev limiter kicks in...

Just my $0.05..

However we've taken out the factory engine and put in a Callaway 700 HP engine that can redline at 6500 RPM, but we still got the factory rev limiter in it....
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post #95 of 119 Old 02-21-2014, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

Not a design flaw..
The Corvette can still do 165MPH but if reved beyond 6200 RPM the rev limiter kicks in...
Yea but my Genesis coupe 3.8l six cylinder will only do 155 @6500 rpm, so I keep my
suzuki 4 cylinder 1 liter mc that redlines @13,300 rpm and does 185 mph easy.
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post #96 of 119 Old 02-21-2014, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony.tam View Post

BTW, next time set the db meter on peak hold, and go outside the house and control the volume via wifi on your laptop. wink.gif I'm assuming you have wifi and laptop.
I didn't buy my receiver to melt my speakers down or play dj in a huge auditorium.
I do have wifi, laptop and galaxy s4 phone. Still use my yammy remote for audio.
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post #97 of 119 Old 02-21-2014, 04:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kikkenit2 View Post

Hsu 15", Elemental Design 15" (A5) & two brand new (2012) SVS PB12+ (currently $1400 each shipped).
The 12"ers actually outperform the 15"s. More power and heavier magnets.
Never brave enough to connect more than 2 at once. That was my old apartment
by the beach. Probably would have blown the house fuses anyway. I was doing 11.2
with the denon with mostly 4 ohm mtm center speakers and a few bookshelfs. I had the 5 mains
on the emotive xpa-5 and the other 6 internal amps. All channel stereo was pretty loud.


Were you running a 7.2 or 7.4 setup with that?
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post #98 of 119 Old 02-21-2014, 05:11 PM
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11.2 with a denon 4311. Using mostly center speakers with dual 6.5" mids and 1" tweeters or a few ribbon.
Most are sitting on shelves I mounted all around the room. The others are on pinpoint am40 heavy duty clamping
mounts. Mostly mail order direct brands including Salk, Chase, Aperion, Emotiva, Emptek, ED, Polk, Klipsch,
Infinity, HTD, Hsu, Dayton, BIC, SVS, ARX, Tekton, Axiom, Ascend, Behringer, NHT, Boston Acoustics, Audioengine
and Energy. Most are center speakers with some bookshelf and satellite (Bose killers) mixed in for variety.

I still have them all. I had to buy a 5 bedroom house with 3 car garage to fit it all. And no I'm not going to tell the world
where I live now. lol The only thing I don't have is tower speakers. Don't need them. I call my 30 centers mini towers.
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post #99 of 119 Old 02-21-2014, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony.tam View Post

However we've taken out the factory engine and put in a Callaway 700 HP engine that can redline at 6500 RPM, but we still got the factory rev limiter in it....

If you want horsepower out of a Corvette motor, the Callaway falls short....
Here is the dyno session from the TT Camaro SB chevy dual turbo1400HP @ 12PSI built by Nelson, if we increase the boost up to 18PSI the HP will top 2000.. 😳
The TT Camaro took Best of Sema 2013...

Here is a link..
http://www.purevisiondesign.com/rides/project-updates/tt-camaro-nre-engine-dyno.html

Just my $0.05.... 👍😉
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post #100 of 119 Old 02-21-2014, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kikkenit2 View Post

11.2 with a denon 4311. Using mostly center speakers with dual 6.5" mids and 1" tweeters or a few ribbon.
Most are sitting on shelves I mounted all around the room. The others are on pinpoint am40 heavy duty clamping
mounts. Mostly mail order direct brands including Salk, Chase, Aperion, Emotiva, Emptek, ED, Polk, Klipsch,
Infinity, HTD, Hsu, Dayton, BIC, SVS, ARX, Tekton, Axiom, Ascend, Behringer, NHT, Boston Acoustics, Audioengine
and Energy. Most are center speakers with some bookshelf and satellite (Bose killers) mixed in for variety.

I still have them all. I had to buy a 5 bedroom house with 3 car garage to fit it all. And no I'm not going to tell the world
where I live now. lol The only thing I don't have is tower speakers. Don't need them. I call my 30 centers mini towers.

When running the Emotiva XPA-5 power amplifier, I hope you running the later GEN2 version with balanced inputs as the original XPA-5 had a very high, audible noise floor...

Just my $0.05... 👍😉
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post #101 of 119 Old 02-21-2014, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

When running the Emotiva XPA-5 power amplifier, I hope you running the later GEN2 version with balanced inputs as the original XPA-5 had a very high, audible noise floor...

Just my $0.05... 👍😉
No. I have the lousy original purchased 9/2010 for about $800 shipped. It was bench tested at 180 watts full range all channels driven by audioholics or somebody. Lot more than the 773 at about 50 watts per channel 5 channels driven. I was so concerned about the noise floor that I cranked an input up all the way and paused it, then put my ear next to the tweeter. I could hear hiss from 1 or 2 inches away. None from the woofer. If I would have hit play, about 130 db would have burst my eardrum. I also have a emotive upa-7. It is not near as powerful, but is supposedly much cleaner. Never bothered to listen near field. Then I bought a QSC gx-5 for real power. About 600 watts (class h) x 2 dirty, noisy power. Just for the heck of it. I still have all 3 collecting dust in boxes just in case I need them.

Here are the 4 receivers I have to pick from every day. From the bottom. yamaha 773 (400 watt power supply and active use), denon 4311 (780 watt power supply, xt32), pionner 1121 (570 watt power supply), and yamaha a1000 (490 watt power supply). They all have full preamp out. All but the A1000 have airplay music streaming. Life is full of tough decisions. lol The crotch rocket under full throttle beats them all.



M code, by the way. You are my favorite poster so don't go away. I agree with your recent post. My 773 is not defective. It works quite well and sounds just fine.
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post #102 of 119 Old 02-22-2014, 01:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony.tam View Post

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. I don't think it was designed that way. That's one of the main reasons I made this thread. The worst part is that the part being over driven is not being used. And leaving the NAD full blast was not an option because I still used the AM/FM receiver with that and I do not want to listen to the radio at full blast.

And I will have to re-disagree with you on this, as well. Not sending a clipped waveform to the speaker is a GOOD decision, no matter how that decision was reached (i.e. agree with the design or not, the outcome was a good one).
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post #103 of 119 Old 02-22-2014, 06:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayGuy View Post

And I will have to re-disagree with you on this, as well. Not sending a clipped waveform to the speaker is a GOOD decision, no matter how that decision was reached (i.e. agree with the design or not, the outcome was a good one).

I agree with you 100% on the fate that sending a clipped waveform is not a good idea. However I don't believe all the other receivers send clipped waveforms out the pre-outs. I would find it hard to believe that Yamaha would be the only company that implemented a solution.
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post #104 of 119 Old 02-22-2014, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony.tam View Post

Did some testing today. same Iron Man3 clip. At 0 I was hitting peaks of about 110dB, went up to +10 and hit a peak of about 116dB and got a shutdown. Felt some really good shaking in my chair during the explosions. I think I should be fine now as I don't see myself needing to go above -10.

I did do some searching and found a few other people having problems with shutdowns at higher volume settings. I can feel the theater bug biting me again... May need to get a real subwoofer soon. Maybe I'll just have to have a open invitation for my neighbors to come over for movies so they don't have to notice in their home when I'm getting loud. And to think the developers told me these houses were very soundproof.....

I did change the settings a little hoping that I get a little more breathing room from the receiver. YPAO detected all speakers as large, I changed them all to small with exception to the front left and right. However for some reason the 773 thinks my woofers are out of phase when the 765 never thought that. I will have to look into that.

Testing was done with a old radio shack analog dB meter set at around listening position. Test tones produced about 80 dB from the center channel, and about 77 on all the rest..

Yamaha's protection system is not well documented. of the reports I saw Yamaha techs also suspected the unit was defective. I did see some techs request the users to disconnect the speakers, and test with shutdowns still happening and receiver declared defective by tech.

Are you bragging or complaining? ;-)

No subwoofer? That AVR ownes you nothing!

110 and 116 dB are deep into ear damage territory. Keep doing what you are doing if you wish, but next year you may find 116 dB "Not loud enough"! :-(
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post #105 of 119 Old 02-22-2014, 06:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

If you want horsepower out of a Corvette motor, the Callaway falls short....
Here is the dyno session from the TT Camaro SB chevy dual turbo1400HP @ 12PSI built by Nelson, if we increase the boost up to 18PSI the HP will top 2000.. 😳
The TT Camaro took Best of Sema 2013...

Here is a link..
http://www.purevisiondesign.com/rides/project-updates/tt-camaro-nre-engine-dyno.html

Just my $0.05.... 👍😉

Nice, I don't see any dyno charts for that motor, however looks like some of the other motors he built are hitting max hp under 6000 rpm. Maybe this one does also? So that's not really a fair comparison lol.
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post #106 of 119 Old 02-22-2014, 07:26 AM - Thread Starter
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When I first found this issue I was not able to find out details on what appears to be happening. I created this thread so I can better understand it.

With the help of kikkenit2 I'm starting to see that this is expect behavior rather than a defect as I was initially told by Yamaha techs.

With the help of other people in the thread I'm starting to understand the issue much better now.

Here's what I found to fact with a limited sample. It also appears to be reproducible. Hopefully more people can confirm.

1. Received shuts down when a high enough signal is being played through the receiver. Examples below
a. Test tone of 1Khz sinewave at -0 Dbfs played at around +2 or higher
b. Iron man 3 battle scene with 42 suits. played at +5 or higher
c. Pretty much any intense volume scene in movies.

2. Cause: DC output of the power amplifier is abnormal.
Supplementary information: The protection function worked due to a DC voltage appearing at the speaker terminal

3. This will occur regardless if there are speakers attached to the receiver or not.

4. The volume settings will be a little different depending on the settings of the EQ, speaker size selection, Channel gain adjustment, and subwoofer enablement.


I've found what appears to be several people in other forums describing what may be the same or similar condition. Once I get some more confirmations from people experiencing this I put the information at the beginning of the thread so it's easily seen and people can determine if they are running into this issue and not need to call Yamaha for service. This condition is pretty rare and most likely will not effect 99.9% of the people. But I feel that .1% might want to know exactly what is happening. If someone knows were to currently find this information please give it to me.
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post #107 of 119 Old 02-22-2014, 07:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Are you bragging or complaining? ;-)

No subwoofer? That AVR ownes you nothing!

110 and 116 dB are deep into ear damage territory. Keep doing what you are doing if you wish, but next year you may find 116 dB "Not loud enough"! :-(

I'm not bragging or complaining. I'm trying to establish a fact so I can understand the issue.

correct, no sub. I'm don't understand why you are stating the avr owes me anything. I'm just trying to fully understand why Yamaha avr recievers are the only ones that shutdown in this condition.

80-90 dB is plenty loud for me. I currently find 116 too loud.
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post #108 of 119 Old 02-22-2014, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony.tam View Post

I'm not bragging or complaining. I'm trying to establish a fact so I can understand the issue.

correct, no sub. I'm don't understand why you are stating the avr owes me anything. I'm just trying to fully understand why Yamaha avr recievers are the only ones that shutdown in this condition.

80-90 dB is plenty loud for me. I currently find 116 too loud.
I understand what he said. You are consistently driving the Yamaha higher than spec, and wondering why it shuts down. Adding a sub would relieve some of that high voltage you are demanding, easing the load on the Yamaha. "Owes you" is a reference to you abusing it, it has no fault in the issue.

Why do they shut down?:
Maybe they are the only ones designed properly, maybe they've set their clipping point a little lower than others. But I think it is much closer to the fact that you are using it incorrectly, and almost nobody does it that particular way. So, despite your call for other users to comment, I doubt you are getting very many useful comparisons on all these forums you mention. The number of people that purchase receivers with preouts and multichannel ins are tiny, and those that actually hook 2 receivers together has to be tiny subset of them, and the number of those people that use both receivers as preamp instead of dedicating one to "amp" has to be a tiny subset of that. Maybe you are unique.

What the techs told you over the phone is going to be colored by their assumption that you are using the device correctly. Because most of the people they talk to are using it on its own, and any clipping those people get is with very different settings.

Now that you have an actual amp, you can use it properly. But, keep in mind that playing peaks of 116db is not always possible, certainly not with receivers. So, if it clips at such a point, try to realize that is STILL proper design. Last time I played something that loud, I made all of my children cry. (I have very efficient speakers, easy to do even with a receiver) You guys are comparing the highest end car engines for the silly hp analogy, when you ought to be using a Camry analogy, since that is the comparable level of your receiver. The Corvette is more like the XPA-5 mentioned a couple times. You won't clip that before red comes out your ears.

BTW, playing those 0db sine waves is a great way to destroy every bit of your system, both electronics and speakers. The entire point of the volume labels (0 vs -5 vs +5) is based on "normal" sources. A CD is normal at -10, so a 0db track played at +2 is more like +12 in reality. You should be glad that protection circuit is still working.
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post #109 of 119 Old 02-22-2014, 09:55 AM
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Unless there is some sort of "soft clipping" circuit (i.e. current limiting) implemented within the pre-amp section of the receiver, it is entirely probable that clipping would occur. It is the same scenario as happens in the amplifier section, just at much lower levels of power. All that is required to reach clipping is for you to turn it up too much, thus removing the headroom that must be available to the receiver in order to properly process peaks in the dynamic range of the program.

Frankly, I do not see how you can continue to see this behavior as anything other than normal. In fact, it is a much better solution than one that allows a receiver to send a clipped waveform to the amplifier and pushing it out to the speakers, possibly causing damage. My guess is that most receivers would clip within the amplifier section far sooner than in the pre-amplifier section, which is why this behavior is not common.

Bottom line, stop turning it up to "11" biggrin.gif

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xgx4k83zzc
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post #110 of 119 Old 02-22-2014, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayGuy View Post

Unless there is some sort of "soft clipping" circuit (i.e. current limiting) implemented within the pre-amp section of the receiver, it is entirely probable that clipping would occur. It is the same scenario as happens in the amplifier section, just at much lower levels of power. All that is required to reach clipping is for you to turn it up too much, thus removing the headroom that must be available to the receiver in order to properly process peaks in the dynamic range of the program.

Frankly, I do not see how you can continue to see this behavior as anything other than normal. In fact, it is a much better solution than one that allows a receiver to send a clipped waveform to the amplifier and pushing it out to the speakers, possibly causing damage. My guess is that most receivers would clip within the amplifier section far sooner than in the pre-amplifier section, which is why this behavior is not common.

Bottom line, stop turning it up to "11" biggrin.gif

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xgx4k83zzc

 

He does not think of it as normal because he does not use his gear as a normal person would.  He improperly uses gear in a manner it was never designed to do (see this and this and this), and then wonders why it behaves in a manner he does not like.  The proper solution is to not misuse gear, but he is determined to misuse it anyway, and to complain that this results in an issue.  He may as well complain that he cannot properly drive speakers with the preamp outputs, or that it does not give him a massage.

mark62 likes this.

God willing, we will prevail in peace and freedom from fear and in true health through the purity and essence of our natural fluids. God bless you all.
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post #111 of 119 Old 02-22-2014, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony.tam View Post

Nice, I don't see any dyno charts for that motor, however looks like some of the other motors he built are hitting max hp under 6000 rpm. Maybe this one does also? So that's not really a fair comparison lol.

Keep in mind..
High performance engines with (2) turbos do not require high compression...
Their HP output is really a function of how much boost, racing fuel octane rating and amount of timing advance but requires precise tuning as to avoid detonation..
The Camaro was run @ the 1/4 mile track, and turned 209 MPH with an ET of 7.62, which is pretty dang fast for a car driven on the street. And is much qwiker than our our V10 dragpack Challenger which runs the 1/4 mile with an ET of 8.74 @ 157 MPH. Not bad considering from a standing start..

Just my $0.05... 👍😉
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post #112 of 119 Old 02-22-2014, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony.tam View Post

I was able to go to bestbuy today and discover this issue is likely reproducible across much of their product line. I reproduced the issue of making the receiver shutdown by putting in my U-571 DVD into their Blu-ray player (I don't think brand or model matters) not send the audio to any speakers (did not feel like blowing out my ear drums or other people in the store since they don't have a amp to run it through to turn down the gain) and letting the player run the menu of U-571. Whenever it got to the right spot ( I don't remember the exact, and I don't think it matters as the menu loop is not that long) the receiver shut off. This happened with the RX-A830 and RX-A2030. That's why I feel this will happen across much of their product line. I still don't know the reason it does this, but I'm guessing it's some sort of a clipping safety protection. Just for kicks we feed the signal to another brand receiver, I think it may have been an Denon, I was not really paying attention since I didn't think it would have the issue.

The receiver will stay on as long as you like with the volume set to MAX. However if you feed in an audio signal and to my guess with sufficient low frequency (bass) the receiver will shutoff. If someone hooked up an oscilloscope I think they would be able to find an exact signal that would shut it down. This issue has been around for a while since it also happened to my V765 however at that time I just thought I had a defective receiver. I lived with the issue since it only occasionally happened in movies during loud explosions. However after purchasing a V773 I found the issue still exist.

I would also appreciate if anyone with a Yamaha receiver can test this scenario. And report back your receiver model.

Source Component (Blu-ray or DVD player)
connected to Yamaha receiver (Preferably via HDMI, not sure if the problem exist from other connections)
Output HDMI (1 if you have more than one, or even 2 maybe this does not even matter)

Play a scene with a loud explosion, pretty much any action movie with the receiver turned up to +7 or higher.

I've found a very repeatable source, the menu screen of U-571, when one of the depth charge goes off. Not totally sure which one, but the menu loop is only a minute or two. Turn the volume on the receiver to MAX and shortly the receiver will shutoff when the depth charge blows. If you have separate power amps, you might want to disconnect them. If you don't have separate amps you might want to disconnect your speakers. WARNING, I'm not responsible if you blow your ear drums or speakers doing this.

I've witnessed this behavior in the following Yamaha receivers

RX-V765
RX-V773
RX-A830
RX-A2030

Now I'm going to try to draft up a email that will not get a caned response back with the tech closing the issue. If anyone knows an engineer in Yamaha I would appreciate if the direct them to this forum and contact me. I would like have my receiver not shutdown with the ability to adjust the volume to MAX, apart from this I've been very happy with my decision to use Yamaha.

I know I can most likely solve this issue by purchasing higher power amps to hook up to the receiver. However with the exception of my receiver shutting down my system produces more than acceptable SPL's The only reason I turn up the volume on my Yamaha is so I can have a lower volume from my NAD T 761. I'm attempting to use the Yamaha as a preamp and control the volume through the NAD as the noise level is a bit higher in the NAD. I probably could skip my NAD all together but I like the sound from the NAD, and it does provide more clean power, at least on paper.

"The receiver will stay on as long as you like with the volume set to MAX"

If you are doing this, I think that you are "electronically uneducated"

Espo77
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post #113 of 119 Old 02-22-2014, 01:59 PM
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I went ahead and added 5 center speakers to my 773 and it works fine in a 7.1 configuration.
The large/small switch and the 80hz crossover switch both make a huge difference.
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post #114 of 119 Old 02-22-2014, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by kikkenit2 View Post

I went ahead and added 5 center speakers to my 773 and it works fine in a 7.1 configuration.
The large/small switch and the 80hz crossover switch both make a huge difference.

^^^ this is a wonderful idea.

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post #115 of 119 Old 03-25-2014, 07:23 AM
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No. I have the lousy original purchased 9/2010 for about $800 shipped. It was bench tested at 180 watts full range all channels driven by audioholics or somebody. Lot more than the 773 at about 50 watts per channel 5 channels driven. I was so concerned about the noise floor that I cranked an input up all the way and paused it, then put my ear next to the tweeter. I could hear hiss from 1 or 2 inches away. None from the woofer. If I would have hit play, about 130 db would have burst my eardrum. I also have a emotive upa-7. It is not near as powerful, but is supposedly much cleaner. Never bothered to listen near field. Then I bought a QSC gx-5 for real power. About 600 watts (class h) x 2 dirty, noisy power. Just for the heck of it. I still have all 3 collecting dust in boxes just in case I need them.

Damn... So I must have the crappy version of the XPA-5! (ordered 9/30/2008). It does have balanced inputs though, but I don't use them.
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post #116 of 119 Old 03-25-2014, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony.tam View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdv5 View Post

As stated in Post #9, Yamaha RX-A1010 was measured to deliver 2.8 Vrms unclipped from pre-outs, and it should drive the overwhelming majority of external power amplifiers to rated power just fine. I suspect the other Yamaha AVRs would measure the same or very similar.

Here are some useful things to remember:

http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/amplifier-voltage-gain

Unfortunately it appears that its too easy for me to hit 2.8V output at levels I like to set my receiver at.

Turn up the gain on the power amps!
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post #117 of 119 Old 03-25-2014, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Emig5m View Post

Damn... So I must have the crappy version of the XPA-5! (ordered 9/30/2008). It does have balanced inputs though, but I don't use them.
Glad you brought this back from the dead. I love that xpa-5. Never selling it.

I recently did test #1 & 3 on a yamaha A1000 receiver. It barely played louder than the 773 before going into protection set as 5.0 all large. I believe the center speakers trying to play down to 20hz are clipping and the receiver is properly saving them from damage. When I switched to 5.1 all small the A1000 played clean to full volume with peak output of 113db. The bigger power supply does improve peak performance. Didn't bother using the emotiva amp.
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post #118 of 119 Old 03-25-2014, 02:40 PM
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Check your wires, somewhere you got something touching, even one little strand
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post #119 of 119 Old 03-25-2014, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Protan View Post

Check your wires, somewhere you got something touching, even one little strand
I made that mistake once. Now using banana plugs and double check each end of connection. Actually someone else was having problems with a 773 shutting off so I offered to simulate his situation. My results were the same. Even with no speakers connected to the receiver it will go into protection at a certain volume level during loud full range, deep bass heavy sound effects. Probably some kind of preamp clipping protection kicking in. Ultimately my conclusion is the midrange yamaha's prefer x.1 over x.0 when possible and play plenty loud under normal listening use. The 773 did go into protection using 5.1 below full volume and the A1000 did not.
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