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post #271 of 1235 Old 03-06-2014, 06:15 AM
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I'm referring to the possibility that some in this thread are posting spiteful things that they know would likely get deleted in the Emo Lounge.
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post #272 of 1235 Old 03-06-2014, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by marcuslaw View Post

I'm referring to the possibility that some in this thread are posting spiteful things that they know would likely get deleted in the Emo Lounge.

What is worse..posting spiteful things or censorship. People should be able to speak their mind. You might not agree with their viewpoint but that doesn't mean their opinion isn't valid or real to them.
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post #273 of 1235 Old 03-06-2014, 06:30 AM
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What is worse..posting spiteful things or censorship. People should be able to speak their mind. You might not agree with their viewpoint but that doesn't mean their opinion isn't valid or real to them.

Exactly!
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post #274 of 1235 Old 03-06-2014, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by marcuslaw View Post

I'm referring to the possibility that some in this thread are posting spiteful things that they know would likely get deleted in the Emo Lounge.

Ah, I see. By "this forum", I thought you meant AVS. But you meant the other one.
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What is worse..posting spiteful things or censorship. People should be able to speak their mind. You might not agree with their viewpoint but that doesn't mean their opinion isn't valid or real to them.

Like it is said of culture in a repressive political state; the more repressive the environment, the more vibrant and extreme their cities underground scenes tend to be.

By stomping out too much open discussion in their Emo Lounge forum, it will only be given expression elsewhere. And perhaps more extreme.

Which reminds me of a certain part-time EQ consultant masquerading as a mastering engineer who has his own forum and controls discussion about himself there with an iron fist (though using the mod team as scapegoats). And so up cropped an anti-forum. Which is about as vitriolic of a forum as I've ever encountered.

Mourning the disappearance of the -ly suffix. Words being cut-off before they've had a chance to fully form, left incomplete, with their shoelaces untied and their zippers undone. If I quote your post (or post in your thread) without comment, please check your zipper.
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post #275 of 1235 Old 03-06-2014, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by marcuslaw View Post

Production delays happen for all sorts of reasons.

3 yrs of "Coming Soon"? I remember the ever-changing specs going all the way back that far rolleyes.gif

Emotiva deserves all the criticism they're getting.

if it wasn't for Dirac, this prepro wouldn't be worth the hype & forum time it's getting. it would be no different than existing prepros/AVR alternatives in this price range that are proven, stable performers with proven room EQ systems.

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post #276 of 1235 Old 03-06-2014, 07:17 AM
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Production delays happen for all sorts of reasons. Sometimes, they're unforeseeable. I just don't understand why this thread has filled up with all sorts of speculation that has served only to fuel accusations that IMO serve only to discredit and damage the company's reputation. 

 

But they didn't give "all sorts of delay reasons" - they said it was specifically so they could include HDMI 2.0. Which they are not doing. But they still have the delay even so. Don't you think that is at least a little bit implausible?

 

They don't need anyone to dsicredit them or damage their reputation - they're doing a swell job all by themselves.

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post #277 of 1235 Old 03-06-2014, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by marcuslaw View Post

I'm referring to the possibility that some in this thread are posting spiteful things that they know would likely get deleted in the Emo Lounge.

 

Spiteful to question what seem to be highly implausible explanations for yet another delay?  I don't think so. Yes, all of this would be deleted in the Lounge - they don't like any criticism over there. That's why it's become a place for fanboys only.

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post #278 of 1235 Old 03-06-2014, 07:21 AM
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if it wasn't for Dirac, this prepro wouldn't be worth the hype & forum time it's getting. it would be no different than existing prepros/AVR alternatives in this price range that are proven, stable performers with proven room EQ systems.

 

Good point. Other than Dirac it has nothing special. And lacks many of the things Onkyo and Denon users, for example, take for granted.

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post #279 of 1235 Old 03-06-2014, 07:25 AM
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and I also saw a large physical cased, HDMI-only prepro at their CEDIA booth in Atlanta in either 2009-2010. I can't be sure of which year since I went to both.

they were very proud of it and promoting it to everyone coming through the booth. the box I saw was much taller & going to be quite a bit more expensive than the UMC-200. and IIRC, this box pre-dated the version that was supposed to have Tact.

I was told by one of the higher-ups at Emotiva who was in the booth that it was in the final stages & would be released in a few months - that box was never released, just like the 7 ch amp they also displayed that year in their booth which also never made it to production.

all vaporware

they either do not know how to tell potential customers the truth, don't know what the truth is, or don't know how to launch processors.
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post #280 of 1235 Old 03-06-2014, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

They don't need anyone to dsicredit them or damage their reputation - they're doing a swell job all by themselves.

have to agree. for the record, I do not own Emotiva products but I have seriously considered their XPR amps & their amps are definitely on my list when the time ever comes for me to go separates. and their stereo preamp. but I do not trust this company for a complex HT processor.

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post #281 of 1235 Old 03-06-2014, 07:53 AM
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They don't need anyone to dsicredit them or damage their reputation - they're doing a swell job all by themselves.

have to agree. for the record, I do not own Emotiva products but I have seriously considered their XPR amps & their amps are definitely on my list when the time ever comes for me to go separates. and their stereo preamp. but I do not trust this company for a complex HT processor.

 

I can endorse their amps. I have four of them and they have been solid, reliable performers for me for a number of years now. I am very pleased with them - especially at the price I paid. I have also had Emo's 6.3 speakers and their ERD-1 surround speakers and can endorse those too. Processors are a different ball game - and as I live in the UK, returning something to the States is not a thing to undertake lightly, so before I buy from the US I have to be sure that I am getting a rock-solid product. So far, I have my Emo amps and my Seaton Submersive subs and have not been disappointed. The rest of my gear has been bought here in the UK or in Germany.

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post #282 of 1235 Old 03-06-2014, 08:25 AM
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But they didn't give "all sorts of delay reasons" - they said it was specifically so they could include HDMI 2.0. Which they are not doing. But they still have the delay even so. Don't you think that is at least a little bit implausible?

They don't need anyone to dsicredit them or damage their reputation - they're doing a swell job all by themselves.

I think the delay stems from adding this HDMI chip to it at the last minute. This also expanded the output to two HDMI outs if I recall correctly. I think they were excited by the prospect of it being HDMI 2.0 (for whatever reason they came to that conclusion) but that didn't pan out. But that still doesn't mean that they didn't decide to go with a higher end HDMI chip.

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post #283 of 1235 Old 03-06-2014, 08:42 AM
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Do you think that maybe since there was now (2) HDMI outputs that's what Dan thought was HDMI 2.0?

If they had a HDMI 1.4b model ready to go for Feb 14th then please tell me why the new ETA is April when there is IN FACT no change to the HDMI chips they already had. Are you one of their many many trained professionals on staff?
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post #284 of 1235 Old 03-06-2014, 08:56 AM
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Do you think that maybe since there was now (2) HDMI outputs that's what Dan thought was HDMI 2.0?

If they had a HDMI 1.4b model ready to go for Feb 14th then please tell me why the new ETA is April when there is IN FACT no change to the HDMI chips they already had. Are you one of their many many trained professionals on staff?

Was that "trained professional" directed at Kris. If it was I believe what he does is in his sig. He test a lot of different equipment and is well known for his reviews and test reports. I feel he is defending a pre-pro that may end up possibly being one that a lot of people will be proud to own some day. If it turns out to be an expensive paper weight it will not be his fault. But I can tell you if he does indeed test and review the XMC 1 it would be a truthful one. It won't be a full praise with a lot of unanswered questions like you will read from that "professional" fanboy over there employed on that Emotiva site.
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post #285 of 1235 Old 03-06-2014, 09:14 AM
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Kris, all jokes aside, your theater room is stunning and I tip my hat to you sir. I think you may be better off with Dirac and not the "Dirac Light, now with 50% more real cheese" version that Emo is getting though.

And no, the "trained professional" comment were for the grade A staff over at the Emo community college.
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post #286 of 1235 Old 03-06-2014, 09:43 AM
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But they didn't give "all sorts of delay reasons" - they said it was specifically so they could include HDMI 2.0. Which they are not doing. But they still have the delay even so. Don't you think that is at least a little bit implausible?

They don't need anyone to dsicredit them or damage their reputation - they're doing a swell job all by themselves.

I think the delay stems from adding this HDMI chip to it at the last minute. This also expanded the output to two HDMI outs if I recall correctly. I think they were excited by the prospect of it being HDMI 2.0 (for whatever reason they came to that conclusion) but that didn't pan out. But that still doesn't mean that they didn't decide to go with a higher end HDMI chip.

 

Do you really believe that two weeks before product launch date they decided to add an additional HDMI port and change the HDMI specification from 1.4b to 2.0?  Not to mention having a physically different rear panel to source and implement, to take care of the extra HDMI port?

 

And if you do believe that, what could be the explanation for the delay when they then decided to leave everything "as is" (HDMI 1.4b) anyway?  If they were ready to launch on Feb 14th, with 1.4b, and then they decided to, er, launch with 1.4b, what was the cause of the delay?  It could NOT have been anything to do with HDMI 2.0 could it, since they have decided not to bother with HDMI 2.0?  They haven't spoken since the abortive HDMI 2.0 announcement but the delay still stands, presumably without explanation.

 

If they were ready to launch in two weeks, they would have had final product packed or ready for packaging. Manuals would have been printed. Final QC checks carried out. Etc. But then they decide to unbox all the units ready for delivery, print new manuals or addenda to existing manuals, take the units to pieces, install new components, add a new backplate, run new QC etc so they can include a 'new' chip which has suddenly come to their attention? Then, they decide not to include the new chip because someone has read the spec sheet Sanjay mentioned and realised that it isn't a HDMI 2.0 chip after all. So there's no need to unbox all the processors ready for delivery, no need to take them to pieces etc - so they can just deliver them, yes?  Well, no, it seems. Why not?

 

The issue isn't the delay. People have been waiting years for Emo to launch this processor. A few more weeks is irrelevant. The issue is that by producing what appears to be a BS reason for the new delay, the company reduces its credibility still further. And leaves people wondering what they can believe when it is told to them. It is a PR disaster if nothing else.

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post #287 of 1235 Old 03-06-2014, 09:53 AM
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Do you think that maybe since there was now (2) HDMI outputs that's what Dan thought was HDMI 2.0?
 

 

LMAO. :)

 

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 If they had a HDMI 1.4b model ready to go for Feb 14th then please tell me why the new ETA is April when there is IN FACT no change to the HDMI chips they already had. 

 

Exactly. All was ready for Feb 14th according to Laufman. Then, "oh look - we can install HDMI 2.0 - the first in the market to do it!" Then, it was "Oh no we can't - it isn't HDMI 2.0 at all, so we don't have to change anything - let's just roll out the 1.4b units on February 14th as planned." Then it was "No - let's not do that - lets delay the launch again and just sit here looking at all the XMC-1s in their boxes..."  Implausible?

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post #288 of 1235 Old 03-06-2014, 09:55 AM
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Hard to say. Could have been a parts issue with whatever they were going to use for an HDMI chip before. I have no idea. The fact that they are now offering dual HDMI outputs means they did in fact change the design. Whether this was for the new chip board or not, only they know. I think most people would be happy that they did this update though as a common complaint that I did see was the lack of dual HDMI outputs. Whether it is a deal breaker for anyone is really up to them. Again, I'll hold out judgement on whether this is worth checking out after people start using them and reporting back or some reviews come in from people I trust. I could care less about the timeline, I've seen too many companies take years to deliver new processors. Emotiva shot themselves in the foot by announcing it so long ago and constantly delaying it, of that there is no doubt. I recall AV123 making that mistake a lot back in the day, it has even bitten Outlaw Audio before too (for a pre-pro no less). These are extremely complicated products though. Even Theta has fallen into this trap with endless delays. But take a look at the lack of new offerings in this segment from Integra, Onkyo, Denon, and Anthem. I think it tells you a lot.

I'm very interested in seeing how well the XMC does. It offers some pretty compelling features for its price. Hopefully its worth the long painful wait.

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post #289 of 1235 Old 03-06-2014, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

Hard to say. Could have been a parts issue with whatever they were going to use for an HDMI chip before. I have no idea. The fact that they are now offering dual HDMI outputs means they did in fact change the design. Whether this was for the new chip board or not, only they know. I think most people would be happy that they did this update though as a common complaint that I did see was the lack of dual HDMI outputs. Whether it is a deal breaker for anyone is really up to them. Again, I'll hold out judgement on whether this is worth checking out after people start using them and reporting back or some reviews come in from people I trust. I could care less about the timeline, I've seen too many companies take years to deliver new processors. Emotiva shot themselves in the foot by announcing it so long ago and constantly delaying it, of that there is no doubt. I recall AV123 making that mistake a lot back in the day, it has even bitten Outlaw Audio before too (for a pre-pro no less). These are extremely complicated products though. Even Theta has fallen into this trap with endless delays. But take a look at the lack of new offerings in this segment from Integra, Onkyo, Denon, and Anthem. I think it tells you a lot.

I'm very interested in seeing how well the XMC does. It offers some pretty compelling features for its price. Hopefully its worth the long painful wait.

 

We definitely agree on that! :)

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post #290 of 1235 Old 03-06-2014, 09:59 AM
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FWIW, I'm on the preorder list from last summer, but I'm not wasting $2K to beta test a product that's still in flux "so close" to an alleged shipdate. If the XMC-1 ever moves beyond vaperware, and someone reading this absolutely wants to test drive Dirac Emotiva-style, they've got a lot more time and patience than I have to play with this.

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post #291 of 1235 Old 03-06-2014, 10:05 AM
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Do you think that maybe since there was now (2) HDMI outputs that's what Dan thought was HDMI 2.0?

If they had a HDMI 1.4b model ready to go for Feb 14th then please tell me why the new ETA is April when there is IN FACT no change to the HDMI chips they already had. Are you one of their many many trained professionals on staff?

Again, I try to refrain from making personal comments about people that work for a company. It is childish to say the least. I'm sure Dan more than anyone else is well aware of the endless trash talk that goes on with regard to the XMC and its delays. But if making personal jokes about someone that you don't know is how you feel better about yourself, you go right ahead. I try and treat people the same way I would if they were right in front of me on these boards. But I think most like to puff their chests behind the anonymity that forums offer.

I don't know what HDMI chipset they were using specifically before the delay. Could be the same, could be different. And no I don't work at Emotiva or have anything to do with the company at all. But I seriously doubt that Dan lied about a chipset just to give himself a few weeks of delay for the product. For all we know (considering how long this product has been in development) the HDMI chip they were planning on using isn't available or available in the volume they need and they had to change to this new one. Maybe they thought the new one was indeed 2.0, which would have been an exciting development for them. I honestly don't care about the whys and whats because all we can do is speculate and there are those that will continually speculate on the negative side pointing their fingers at Emotiva and saying this is all a snub to their customers. Oh well, then don't buy the damn product! I think in this case Dan thought he had one thing and it turned out to be another. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt.
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post #292 of 1235 Old 03-06-2014, 10:51 AM
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Hard to say. Could have been a parts issue with whatever they were going to use for an HDMI chip before. I have no idea. The fact that they are now offering dual HDMI outputs means they did in fact change the design. Whether this was for the new chip board or not, only they know. I think most people would be happy that they did this update though as a common complaint that I did see was the lack of dual HDMI outputs. Whether it is a deal breaker for anyone is really up to them. Again, I'll hold out judgement on whether this is worth checking out after people start using them and reporting back or some reviews come in from people I trust. I could care less about the timeline, I've seen too many companies take years to deliver new processors. Emotiva shot themselves in the foot by announcing it so long ago and constantly delaying it, of that there is no doubt. I recall AV123 making that mistake a lot back in the day, it has even bitten Outlaw Audio before too (for a pre-pro no less). These are extremely complicated products though. Even Theta has fallen into this trap with endless delays. But take a look at the lack of new offerings in this segment from Integra, Onkyo, Denon, and Anthem. I think it tells you a lot.

I'm very interested in seeing how well the XMC does. It offers some pretty compelling features for its price. Hopefully its worth the long painful wait.

Kris, Onkyo/Integra probably blew the budget for any upgrades because of all the incompetent AVR's the have had to replace or repair.
There is at least one and probably more Onkyo fan boys who always takes a jab at Onkyo. His/their time could be better spent by soothing all the Onkyo owners who have dead units. At least the bugs in the UMC units did not render them useless. The flames are forthcoming about EMO-Q. However, the most likely flamer made the statement that all but XT32 are embarrassing to Audyssey. Of course he now defends that statement by saying that those older versions are good. He just can't recommend them. WTF.
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post #293 of 1235 Old 03-06-2014, 10:55 AM
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I haven't been keeping up with the Onkyo/Integra issues but I have owned and used several Onkyo Pro and Integra processors over the years with no issues. They've had some flakey firmware that usually gets fixed with updates but I've never experienced any hardware related issues. Sorry to hear others are.

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post #294 of 1235 Old 03-06-2014, 02:43 PM
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Someone should ask a moderator/gort to change the thread title. It's not true. wink.gif
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post #295 of 1235 Old 03-07-2014, 01:48 AM
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The spec for the XMC- before the 2.0 debacle was HDMI 1.4a. The chipset they finally settled on (ADV7625 HDMI) wasn't even announced until January of this year. When Emo announced that they were switching chipsets, that wasn't a lie.
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post #296 of 1235 Old 03-07-2014, 03:57 AM
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What chip did they say they were using before?

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post #297 of 1235 Old 03-07-2014, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

What chip did they say they were using before?

No specific brand Chu ; was just listed as 1.4a as Bluescale says. Personally Ime a bit dismayed about the vitriol directed at a hdmi chipset that Kris has said is in a state of flux . Doesnt stop other manufacturers marketing departments from claiming their pre pro's are 4k ready ..

I would have thought that hdmi.org would give some pause considering how they phrase it ; but this threads modus operandi would discourage this for sure cool.gif I remember how people couldnt understand how the ps3 [1.3] could manage 3d - a 1.4 capability . Also recall hdmi saying they would prefer people to concentrate on features needed rather than the hdmi version . Its a shame this request hasnt taken root both with manufacturers as well as consumers smile.gif
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Can my existing HDMI 1.x devices be upgraded with HDMI 2.0 features?
Currently, there are no provisions for doing such an upgrade. Because of the new enhanced feature set, any such conversion would require hardware and/or firmware upgrades. If there are such conversions, it would come from the manufacturer. Please check with them directly.

Scratch my head about the 2 week extra hdmi 2/1.4 delay as well . Ide believe it too if not for the timeline . The feb 21 date was announced back last October . The relocation of manufacturing to Tennessee announcement was subsequent to that with all the organisation/logistics and hiring . Now whats the odds of that being the longer delay vs the swapping of hdmi1.4a boards to hdmi 1.4b . And why has no one considered this a factor at all ?

And since integra has been mentioned let me put the boot in as a former ''upgradeable'' dtr10.5 owner ; Nostradamus didnt deserve the bad press biggrin.gif
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post #298 of 1235 Old 03-07-2014, 10:28 AM
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Emo is less accurate in their forecasts than Nostradamus. As a former UMC-1 user I recall one failed pronouncement after another. Excellent amps but so far total failure when it comes to pre-pros.
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post #299 of 1235 Old 03-07-2014, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwt View Post
 
Personally Ime a bit dismayed about the vitriol directed at a hdmi chipset that Kris has said is in a state of flux . Doesnt stop other manufacturers marketing departments from claiming their pre pro's are 4k ready ..

 

The 'vitriol' is directed at the excuse for the delay not the chipset. It is not a plausible reason as various members have tried to explain.

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post #300 of 1235 Old 03-07-2014, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

Emo is less accurate in their forecasts than Nostradamus. As a former UMC-1 user I recall one failed pronouncement after another. Excellent amps but so far total failure when it comes to pre-pros.

Accuracy in their forecasts? Is Emo, or was Nostradamus for that matter, into meteorology? Whatever. As a current owner, I'm quite content with my UMC-1 but am looking forward to upgrading to the XMC-1. Given your scholarly assessment, I presume you are not.

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