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post #451 of 1235 Old 03-10-2014, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

Often what people find the most pleasing is what they are the most used to.  For instance, I have seen occasions where people ran their system without Audysey, and the LOVED the way it sounded.  After switching on Audyssey, they did not like the way it sounded.  However, after listening to Audysey for a while, it then sounded better to them than without Audysey smile.gif   After all, perception is reality.  There are many blissfully happy Bose owners, for example.

Quite often people are obsessed with something new then when the new wears off they wonder why it fascinated them to begin with.
The perception can work in both directions.
If one has to acquire a taste for something what is the purpose?
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post #452 of 1235 Old 03-10-2014, 07:58 PM
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Well, it is human nature to want what we don't have.  I doubt many people have the same AVR/amp/pre-pro/speakers/subs etc that they had 5/10/15 years ago.


AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

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post #453 of 1235 Old 03-10-2014, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

Do the studios use RC to eq? If so why did they intend for Audyssey to make my system sound lifeless, sterile, thin, etc.

I have never claimed to be a purist. Maybe that is why I like RC turned off.

No need to argue. Measurements can prove that Audyssey is or isn't more accurate. They can't tell my preference.

My room is probably as good or better than most but certainly no where close to the upper end. It could also be that I am not fascinated by every feature available.

Dubbing stages use EQ and delay to compensate the response to whatever standard they are striving to meet.

If you felt your system was lifeless and sterile, maybe your room is ultra live with reflections and toning it down was a big difference.

I don't know. And don't care.

I'm not passing any judgement on your desire for preference.

I find it hard to relate as I'm a huge lover of film and have dedicated almost a quarter century trying to help tell stories through sound..

When I meet those who are wholly uninterested in properly reproducing what was intended I always have a disconnect.

Your earlier comments about concert and studio sound vs home setups demonstrates your lack of knowledge about content production and what the environments are like.

And to say you know what real life sounds like and then using that as a barometer to gauge your system is a little misguided IMHO.

This dialog need not be contentious. You are happy with what you have and it's not my intention to change that.... Not my business, not my mission.

I'm just trying to fill in some of your knowledge gaps.

You don't really have a product that has good room correction to try, and I hope somewhere down the line you are able to improve your setup even more than it works for you now.

Best of luck. smile.gif
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post #454 of 1235 Old 03-10-2014, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

I can do without anything that degrades the sound.
EVERY room is an equalizer. The point of using room correction is to minimize unwanted contributions of the listening environment, so you hear less of the room and more of the source material (IF you're into that sort of thing). It's the opposite of degrading the sound.
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post #455 of 1235 Old 03-11-2014, 03:17 AM
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Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post
 
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Originally Posted by Bluescale View Post

He said if his processor dissolved. Earlier, he said he would *only* buy a processor right now if his current processor died. Sounds fairly consistent to me.
 
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Yes, but that is because you are actually reading the posts before replying to them wink.gif

You could wait a few days as ATMOS is right around the corner.
 

 

Really, Mud, I am beginning to think you just reply rather than reading any of the posts.  ATMOS for home is due to be announced this Fall. I must have said that at least 5 times recently.  All will be revealed at CEDIA.  CEDIA this year is Sept 10-13. Not too long to wait.  On their website, they describe this year's new launches as: "Hyper-change is here". Sounds exciting huh?  And worth waiting for IMO instead of throwing 2 grand at something that, well, isn't hyper-change.

 

 

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 BTW, who has announced it in their next unit?

 

Nobody, AFAIK, has announced it officially yet. There are people 'in the industry' who know more about it, obviously, but I assume they have all been signed up on NDAs. 

 

It's only Emotiva who announce stuff early and then fail to deliver it. Properly managed companies wait until they know they can deliver.



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post #456 of 1235 Old 03-11-2014, 03:24 AM
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Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post
 
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

So, how can you do without RC was the question..... ?  And the answer is.... tada.....

I can do without anything that degrades the sound.

 

Priceless.

 

I guess the multi-million dollar mixing rooms that FilmMixer works in must all have 'degraded sound'. Thanks for pointing this out.



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post #457 of 1235 Old 03-11-2014, 04:00 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Priceless.

I guess the multi-million dollar mixing rooms that FilmMixer works in must all have 'degraded sound'. Thanks for pointing this out.

Yours is also Priceless.

Mine is not a million dollar room. Also, I am not mixing/editing as the studio does. If FilmMixer does his job properly I should not have to reinvent all over.
Before you go off the deep end with a lengthy explanation I do know and understand what all of you are saying about eq. I also know that the wrong application is as bad as none. I also would not compare the RC in an AVR with what is used in a million dollar room. I have room for improvement as do most. I would start with room treatments.
I suppose we should agree to disagree and get back to bashing Emo.
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post #458 of 1235 Old 03-11-2014, 04:21 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Priceless.

I guess the multi-million dollar mixing rooms that FilmMixer works in must all have 'degraded sound'. Thanks for pointing this out.

Yours is also Priceless.

Mine is not a million dollar room. Also, I am not mixing/editing as the studio does. If FilmMixer does his job properly I should not have to reinvent all over.
Before you go off the deep end with a lengthy explanation I do know and understand what all of you are saying about eq. I also know that the wrong application is as bad as none. I also would not compare the RC in an AVR with what is used in a million dollar room. I have room for improvement as do most. I would start with room treatments.
I suppose we should agree to disagree and get back to bashing Emo.

 

You made a blanket statement that room EQ degrades the sound. You said in response to the question 'how can you do without REQ?', "I can do without anything that degrades the sound"

 

The clear inference to be drawn from your reply is that you believe that REQ systems degrade the sound. FM then pointed out to you that all professional facilities, even those that have cost millions of dollars to design the room, use REQ. That comment makes nonsense of your comment. I was just pointing that out. ;)



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post #459 of 1235 Old 03-11-2014, 04:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

You made a blanket statement that room EQ degrades the sound. You said in response to the question 'how can you do without REQ?', "I can do without anything that degrades the sound"

The clear inference to be drawn from your reply is that you believe that REQ systems degrade the sound. FM then pointed out to you that all professional facilities, even those that have cost millions of dollars to design the room, use REQ. That comment makes nonsense of your comment. I was just pointing that out. wink.gif

We were discussing my application. Not the world's. Of course you always want to twist things to get more words on the screen.
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post #460 of 1235 Old 03-11-2014, 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

You made a blanket statement that room EQ degrades the sound. You said in response to the question 'how can you do without REQ?', I can do without anything that degrades the sound."I can do without anything that degrades the sound"

The clear inference to be drawn from your reply is that you believe that REQ systems degrade the sound. FM then pointed out to you that all professional facilities, even those that have cost millions of dollars to design the room, use REQ. That comment makes nonsense of your comment. I was just pointing that out. wink.gif

We were discussing my application. Not the world's. 

 

No use wriggling now, Mud. Your comments are there for everyone to see. "I can do without anything that degrades the sound."

 

Quote:
 Of course you always want to twist things to get more words on the screen.

 

Yeah, I've spotted that on a forum the only way to reply is to get words on the screen, but thanks for pointing it out.



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post #461 of 1235 Old 03-11-2014, 06:23 AM
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This sterility thing you experienced after employing room correction, Mudcat45, is interesting. What did the measurements look like before and after?

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post #462 of 1235 Old 03-11-2014, 06:52 AM
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Room Correction... let me settle this for you guys.

Run your room correction software with you mic setup in the King's chair. Change the speakers to small if you have a sub and set the XO to 80Hz and then swap your processor's mic with you Antimode 8033's mic and run it's sweeps. Grab your SPL meter and tune your speakers to 75bd and your sub(s) to 80db. Make sure all the "extra" garbage is turned off, shut the f*ck up, enjoy.

*please note that EMO-Q does not qualify as real room correction as their "technical staff" has no clue of what they're doing.
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post #463 of 1235 Old 03-11-2014, 07:47 AM
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just as a counter point: the Bryston SP3 does not employ room correction and is a highly regarded processor

http://www.innerearmag.com/reviews/accessories/Bryston_SP3.shtml (read down to:No Room Correction You Say?)
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post #464 of 1235 Old 03-11-2014, 07:58 AM
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just as a counter point: the Bryston SP3 does not employ room correction and is a highly regarded processor

http://www.innerearmag.com/reviews/accessories/Bryston_SP3.shtml (read down to:No Room Correction You Say?)

Front the review... And the reviewer is mixer/engineer.
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Now I would certainly understand if someone completely disagreed with Bryston’s decision. I would also understand if that same person disagreed with my support of their decision. In all three of the sound mixing rooms at my studio, we use modest room correction in conjunction with very elaborate, very expensive acoustic room design. However, in my own environment at home – which is not an acoustically transparent space – I use a Pioneer SC37 Receiver as my main home theater unit. The SC37 has excellent EQ and bass management features. However I run the system with both room correction features completely disengaged. Why? Because I want a clean and pure signal. I have set the system up with EQ many times, and for me it sounds better with it disengaged.

I would never disagree with his preference.

IMO, however, his reasoning seems flawed....

And no bass management? Hmmmmmm...

Quote:
I also think the inclusion of room correction at the performance level that Bryston strives for would likely be cost-prohibitive for many of their customers...

I understand the Bryston design philosophy....

But it doesn't change the fact that even the most pure electronic path and well designed speakers can't over come the shortcomings of the environment they are placed in.... Which as others have pointed out is the most degrading processing that happens to audio in most situations.
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post #465 of 1235 Old 03-11-2014, 08:10 AM
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^^^

and no analog bypass if I recall correctly..

I prefer having the RC feature: It can always be turned off....
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post #466 of 1235 Old 03-11-2014, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

Mine is not a million dollar room. Also, I am not mixing/editing as the studio does. If FilmMixer does his job properly I should not have to reinvent all over.
Before you go off the deep end with a lengthy explanation I do know and understand what all of you are saying about eq..

Right on both accounts.. you don't have a million dollar room and you aren't doing production... so why wouldn't you want to emulate the environment the content was created in as closely as possible?

It doesn't take millions of dollars....
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I also know that the wrong application is as bad as none.

I don't disagree...

And up to this point, Emotiva hasn't really proven it knows how to do it right, hence my skepticism about the new processor and it's implementation of a fairly sophisticated solution.
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I also would not compare the RC in an AVR with what is used in a million dollar room.


The home solutions are actually much more sophisticated....

Quote:
I have room for improvement as do most. I would start with room treatments.[

That says a lot to me about your comments about the "sterility" and lifeless character you heard when using RC.. as I said earlier, I suspect you are used to a sound with a lot of uncontrolled reflections and untamed bass response..... most people, as others have pointed out, need to live with a corrected sound for at least a week and then see what their feeling are...
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post #467 of 1235 Old 03-11-2014, 08:42 AM
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This sterility thing you experienced after employing room correction, Mudcat45, is interesting. What did the measurements look like before and after?

wink.gif

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post #468 of 1235 Old 03-11-2014, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

just as a counter point: the Bryston SP3 does not employ room correction and is a highly regarded processor

http://www.innerearmag.com/reviews/accessories/Bryston_SP3.shtml (read down to:No Room Correction You Say?)

 

Maybe they assume everyone who buys their processor has a well-treated room?  HST, even if they do, REQ is still needed IMO (a position backed by FM in his recent posts). Maybe the Bryston set use outboard room EQ?



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post #469 of 1235 Old 03-11-2014, 08:54 AM
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This sterility thing you experienced after employing room correction, Mudcat45, is interesting. What did the measurements look like before and after?

wink.gif

 

;)



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post #470 of 1235 Old 03-11-2014, 09:22 AM
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Maybe they assume everyone who buys their processor has a well-treated room?
Keith, a more plausible explanation is that they simply can't compete @ the price point and so decided to market their lack of RC as "sonic purity". Perfect catch phrase for a certain market.wink.gif
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post #471 of 1235 Old 03-11-2014, 09:44 AM
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It's a line that's been used by more than one company, RUR.

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post #472 of 1235 Old 03-11-2014, 10:58 AM
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Maybe they assume everyone who buys their processor has a well-treated room?
Keith, a more plausible explanation is that they simply can't compete @ the price point and so decided to market their lack of RC as "sonic purity". Perfect catch phrase for a certain market.wink.gif

 

Good point. They excluded it so as not to 'degrade the sound'. :eek:



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post #473 of 1235 Old 03-11-2014, 01:15 PM
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This post stats that he have have received a mail about purchase of the XMC-1 and that it will be shiped April 16th.

http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/621764/thread
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post #474 of 1235 Old 03-11-2014, 01:32 PM
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Read the whole thing, it said Phsyc as in JK , its not real .
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post #475 of 1235 Old 03-11-2014, 01:37 PM
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Read the whole thing, it said Phsyc as in JK , its not real .

Ahh missed the last line. :-) Guess i am reading what i wanna read wink.gif
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post #476 of 1235 Old 03-11-2014, 02:11 PM
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Man this thread has really gotten interesting wink.gif. Just imagine if and when the XMC-1 is actually released. I'm guessing the early adopters will be the beta testers if history repeats itself. Either way I'm going to stock up on popcorn biggrin.gif.

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, watch it grow and my wallet shrink ;-).

 

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post #477 of 1235 Old 03-11-2014, 02:19 PM
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Good point. They excluded it so as not to 'degrade the sound'. eek.gif

They are apparantly taking it one step further....not only will they remove RC for sonic purity...at this pace they might remove the whole XMC-1 unit from the signal path ....voila, audio bliss!!!!
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post #478 of 1235 Old 03-11-2014, 02:52 PM
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Here is a review of the Datasat RS20i and a pretty detailed description of the dirac. It says it prepares the loudspeaker for the sound that is coming cool.gif
Goddamn i wish i had the money for a Datasat RS20i mad.gif

http://www.avforums.com/review/datasat-rs20i-surround-sound-processor-review.565
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post #479 of 1235 Old 03-11-2014, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by andersmik View Post

Here is a review of the Datasat RS20i and a pretty detailed description of the dirac. It says it prepares the loudspeaker for the sound that is coming cool.gif
So does every room correction system. That's how equalization works.

Sanjay
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post #480 of 1235 Old 03-11-2014, 05:59 PM
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Some like me want a processor that just works. I want to run dirac, let it do its thing and then im done. Set it and forget it. I worked on carburetors for 25 of years and I am thankful for fuel injection,i don't want to fiddle around. Unfortunately I am not in the Krell income bracket let alone the Datasat so I will sit back and wait with my fingers crossed (and bated breath)in hopes that we will get the XMC-1 in the near future and it will be the giant killer that Big D says it will be. I also look forward to a review by someone who has heard a Krell or Datasat so they can make some comparisons that I myself can not make.
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