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Old 03-25-2014, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

And best to wait until after CEDIA this September where "hyperchange" is promised. The XMC-1 could well be a dead duck by the time it is launched, being hugely behind the curve.

I'm very behind when it comes to receivers/preamps. What is "hyperchange"? I know Atmos and HDMI 2.0 are supposed to come out, but I'm not sure what else. I have the 40% off card and I'm still considering the XMC-1 (doubtful, but considering) so I'd like to be a bit better informed. Thanks!

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Old 03-25-2014, 03:14 PM
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I pre-ordered my XMC-1 today and I got an email back from Emotiva that simply stated "LOL".

I Guess I'll be accepting my unit any day now, I'll be bent over receiving it once it arrives (picking it up off the ground of course).
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Old 03-25-2014, 05:32 PM
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If you look at the image from xmc-1.com it looks like it supports Dolby Pro Logic IIz so they might have created the ability to use one of the zones to the height channels to get 9.1 and if it also supports DTS NEO:X might be possible to use the second zone to 11.1.

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Old 03-25-2014, 05:45 PM
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If you look at the image from xmc-1.com it looks like it supports Dolby Pro Logic IIz so they might have created the ability to use one of the zones to the height channels to get 9.1 and if it also supports DTS NEO:X might be possible to use the second zone to 11.1.


Screen shot says PLIIx, not z. If the manual/features says it supports "z", then it could be heights instead of surround back like the other 7.1 receivers that support "z." The zones would have to be " hard-wired " in order to have that kind of choice. I doubt Emotiva would do something like that when they already have a "reference" version in the works that addresses the additional amp outputs.

I suppose anything is possible though since that is exactly what Denon did with their 5308ci, which I own. They " turned " the " Surround B " outputs into Height/Wide outputs through a combo hardware/software upgrade. The actual output connections were already in place but just needed additional processing power and updated firmware.

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Old 03-25-2014, 05:53 PM
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Screen shot says PLIIx, not z. If the manual/features says it supports "z", then it could be heights instead of surround back like the other 7.1 receivers that support "z." The zones would have to be " hard-wired " in order to have that kind of choice. I doubt Emotiva would do something like that when they already have a "reference" version in the works that addresses the additional amp outputs.

I suppose anything is possible though since that is exactly what Denon did with their 5308ci, which I own. They " turned " the " Surround B " outputs into Height/Wide outputs through a combo hardware/software upgrade. The actual output connections were already in place but just needed additional processing power and updated firmware.

Where have anybody got the idea that there are an RMC-1 is on the way. I asked Emotiva about this an got this answer.
The RMC-1 is something that is only on paper at this point. We do not even have a prototype of this unit. It may be something that we build in the future, but at this time we have not decided if it will be created. Right now our focus is the XMC-1 and the release of the XMC-1. If you have any further questions please let us know. Thank you for your kind consideration.
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Old 03-25-2014, 06:27 PM
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They got that idea from Emotiva...

 

This is from some of the notes taken at Emofest September 2013;

 

"First, as soon as Ray is fully done with the XMC-1 work in earnest on 2 other processor products will begin. Regarding the RMC-1, they have a basic analog design done including fully differential on all channels, added display features, top tier DAC’s, etc. It will have more inputs/outputs and generally higher level components throughout – esp. to hot rod the analog section."
 

Surprise, surprise the miscommunication continues!

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Old 03-25-2014, 06:37 PM
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While I think Emotiva management communication skills need some serious work, apparently implementing Dirac onto a piece of hardware is fairly complicated. Just ask the Theta fans how long it has taken Theta to release their CB IV with Dirac. It is STILL not available.

The Datasat RS20i is the only Dirac game in town so if you happen to have $20,000 burning a hole in your pocket, you can blow off Emotiva and get the Datasat piece.
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Old 03-25-2014, 06:48 PM
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Not quite: there's a two channel version of Dirac coming out later this year that works on a MiniDSP box, but that's not a multichannel answer. You can do multichannel Dirac with HDMI out right now for LT $1K if you don't mind being limited to PC-based sources, and use something like JRiver for bass management.

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Old 03-25-2014, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

Not quite: there's a two channel version of Dirac coming out later this year that works on a MiniDSP box,

I already have a two channel version on my server and doing a two channel version (MiniDSP) is clearly NOT the same order of magnitude as 5 or 7 or more channels and considering the various codecs and logic steering and ......

Quote:
but that's not a multichannel answer. You can do multichannel Dirac with HDMI out right now for LT $1K if you don't mind being limited to PC-based sources, and use something like JRiver for bass management.

That might be something worth considering, if either Emotiva can't figure out how to deliver this product before I die OR it doesn't sound any better than what I already have. The beauty of your idea is that, among other things, I get to select my own DACS.
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Old 03-25-2014, 10:27 PM
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What is "hyperchange"?
That's the tag-line for this year's CEDIA Expo in September. Seems there is a perfect storm of change coming.
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I know Atmos and HDMI 2.0 are supposed to come out, but I'm not sure what else.
On the video side, there is extended dynamic range (Dolby Vision) and UHD/4K.

By comparison, the last 8 years have been relatively stable: 1080p 8-bit video and 8 channels of lossless audio. The only significant change was HDMI versions.

Suddenly we're getting new audio technology, new video technologies and new connectivity; all happening simultaneously. Hyperchange. Not a good time to invest big in new gear, especially with CEDIA just a few months away.
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Old 03-26-2014, 04:47 AM
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Yep. They’re in too deep though now. Their whole experience with processors has been unfortunate and must have taken their eye off the ball to some extent. It's ironic that they eventually manage to get the XMC-1 launched (one hopes) just as the biggest revolution in AV for a decade comes along, and they aren't on the bus.

+1

the "hyperchanges" coming will render this obsolete (at least well behind what will be available) by the time it's really available. Dirac may still save it's behind, but personally, I would wait for the inevitable 3D positional audio developments.

what with HDMI 2.0 & choice of features, 4K & possible enhancements like rec 2020 color gamut, 444 colorspace, 12 bit depth, Atmos & DTS's version of 3D audio, 4K Blu-ray with 3D audio support - all make for tough choices in 2014-early 2015. I wanted to get a PJ or larger TV by end of 2014 but I'd be a fool to pay that kind of money now for a 4K PJ when the video side is in such state of flux. And the audio side is going to get exciting with 3D audio on the horizon.

too bad, Emotiva, you just waited too long.

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Old 03-26-2014, 04:53 AM
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And best to wait until after CEDIA this September where "hyperchange" is promised. The XMC-1 could well be a dead duck by the time it is launched, being hugely behind the curve.

I'm very behind when it comes to receivers/preamps. What is "hyperchange"? I know Atmos and HDMI 2.0 are supposed to come out, but I'm not sure what else. I have the 40% off card and I'm still considering the XMC-1 (doubtful, but considering) so I'd like to be a bit better informed. Thanks!

 

Hyperchange is the theme of CEDIA this year. Nobody knows exactly what will be launched there of course, but the fact that they have chosen 'hyperchange' as their theme is revealing. It is widely expected that there will be a flurry of AVRs launched there which will be 'object-ready' - that is they will be able to take advantage of Dolby Atmos and/or Auro 3D in the home environment. This new format for surround sound is the only really major change to have come along in 10 years wrt to surround sound in the home and, as it is designed to work with an existing speaker layout as well as with a much more sophisticated layout, it is expected that this will be a very serious development. As a result, people may want to delay purchasing an AVR or processor until September when the new models will launch. Why buy a processor with an obsolete feature set just before a major new advance is launched?  On top of that we have HDMI 2.0, which will be included in many (most?) units at CEDIA and also the ongoing development of 4K. 

 

IMO all of these things, all coming together in just a few months, make it unwise to spend significant coin on something like the XMC-1 (or any other expensive unit for that matter) just ahead of such a significant development. The longer Emotiva delay the launch of the XMC-1, and the closer it gets to September, the less sense it makes to buy it in my view.  This is on top of any concerns one might have over the reliability and functionality of the XMC-1 given Emo's track record with processors.  And for those who decided to 'wait and see' how the XMC-1 fares after launch before buying it perhaps in several months time, the decision will be made for them if the unit is basically outdated before they even get their hands on it.  Whichever way one cuts it, Emo has a textbook disaster of a product launch on its hands.

 

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Old 03-26-2014, 04:56 AM
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While I think Emotiva management communication skills need some serious work, apparently implementing Dirac onto a piece of hardware is fairly complicated. Just ask the Theta fans how long it has taken Theta to release their CB IV with Dirac. It is STILL not available.
 

 

Even more reason for them to keep their mouths shut about a launch date until they actually had an idea when it might launch.

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Old 03-26-2014, 05:07 AM
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Hyperchange is the theme of CEDIA this year. Nobody knows exactly what will be launched there of course, but the fact that they have chosen 'hyperchange' as their theme is revealing. It is widely expected that there will be a flurry of AVRs launched there which will be 'object-ready'...

+1 to everything you said. a great explanation of potential new developments. I didn't know Hyperchange was CEDIA's official theme for 2014 but it sure makes sense.

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Old 03-26-2014, 05:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Hyperchange is the theme of CEDIA this year. Nobody knows exactly what will be launched there of course, but the fact that they have chosen 'hyperchange' as their theme is revealing. It is widely expected that there will be a flurry of AVRs launched there which will be 'object-ready'...

+1 to everything you said. a great explanation of potential new developments. I didn't know Hyperchange was CEDIA's official theme for 2014 but it sure makes sense.

 

Thanks. Sanjay also mentioned something I'd overlooked - the coming changes on the video front too. This fall promises to be very exciting for AV enthusiasts.

 

It's also perhaps worth mentioning that these object-based AVRs are expected to start from around $1,000 or so and almost certainly less than the price of the XMC-1, giving even more reason to wait and see...

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Old 03-26-2014, 05:42 AM
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please limit posts to technical issues

thanks

please take the high road in every post
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Old 03-26-2014, 06:29 AM
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please limit posts to technical issues

thanks

+1 billion. The anti-Dan, attack-anyone-who-says-anything-good-about-Emotiva-as-a-"fanboy", and it's "vaporware" posts are really getting old. Otherwise, there has been some good technical talk on the XMC-1 in this thread.
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Old 03-26-2014, 08:14 AM
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A.K.A Mo Money Mo Money Money biggrin.gif

An audiophile likes to talk about how much they spent and how good it sounds.

A DIY'er likes to talk about how little they spent and how good it sounds.

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Old 03-26-2014, 08:29 AM
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I don't think this is about attacking the man (Dan). There is certainly a history of people complaining about companies constantly missing dates. Just go look at the Theta thread. And if you want o read posts from Fan Boys, again go check out the Theta thread.

Assuming the XMC were to start being shipped next month, I think it will do quite well. They have a huge fan customer base and not all of them are necessarily informed about nor may not care about something as exotic as Atmos or other newer technologies. And if they have restrictions on the number of speakers they can deploy in their listening room, they may not see any advantage to the newer capabilities.

If, on the other hand, the XMC is still months away, and I were Emotiva, I'd be working on Plan B C D E.

On the surface, it could have been a great product but may turn on to be too little to late!!
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Old 03-26-2014, 08:32 AM
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A.K.A Mo Money Mo Money Money biggrin.gif

 

Well yeah, it's a business after all and the aim of a business is to make money :)  Last time I looked, the XMC-1 wasn't free either...

 

No need to upgrade if someone doesn’t want to. It's not compulsory. But it's good to have the opportunity, and unless the processor is object-capable, HDMI 2.0 equipped, Dolby Vision ready etc, then people won't even have the opportunity if they wanted it. As Audioguy says of the XMC-1, too little way too late.

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Old 03-26-2014, 08:37 AM
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I don't think this is about attacking the man (Dan). There is certainly a history of people complaining about companies constantly missing dates. Just go look at the Theta thread. And if you want o read posts from Fan Boys, again go check out the Theta thread.

Assuming the XMC were to start being shipped next month, I think it will do quite well. They have a huge fan customer base and not all of them are necessarily informed about nor may not care about something as exotic as Atmos or other newer technologies. 
 

 

The sooner they get it out the better for sure. The window is closing all the time though - soon we'll be seeing the early PR for the upcoming products at CEDIA and that will give people pause for thought.

 

Quote:

 And if they have restrictions on the number of speakers they can deploy in their listening room, they may not see any advantage to the newer capabilities.

 

Object-based audio will scale to the system you already have while still a promising better surround sound experience - but yeah, the more speakers the better. I currently have a 7.x system and will probably expand it to 9.x with two more height speakers and then leave it at that (due to space limitations).

 

Quote:

 If, on the other hand, the XMC is still months away, and I were Emotiva, I'd be working on Plan B C D E.

On the surface, it could have been a great product but may turn on to be too little to late!!

 

Yep. That sums it up I think. Launched successfully a year ago, and assuming a good implementation of Dirac, a possibly great product, Launched just before hyperchange becomes a reality, not so much.

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Old 03-26-2014, 08:46 AM
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I currently have a 7.x system and will probably expand it to 9.x with two more height speakers and then leave it at that (due to space limitations).

So do you have sides and heights now and are going to put in more heights? Where do you place them?
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Old 03-26-2014, 09:04 AM
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OTOH Keith, if the XMC's stated modularity enables the addition of a board that permits the use of these advancements, that would be quite a coup especially if we see lower to mid priced AVR,s eschew or implement token low frequency room correction.

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Old 03-26-2014, 09:38 AM
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OTOH Keith, if the XMC's stated modularity enables the addition of a board that permits the use of these advancements, that would be quite a coup especially if we see lower to mid priced AVR,s eschew or implement token low frequency room correction.
And not just in the low frequencies, Chu. If Emo & Dirac get this right, I think a lot of folks who get their first taste of real state-of-the-art room correction, especially if it includes custom target curves, may value it as highly as, if not more highly than, some other features. Sure, it would be nice if the Emo had it all, but..............
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Old 03-26-2014, 10:20 AM
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I currently have a 7.x system and will probably expand it to 9.x with two more height speakers and then leave it at that (due to space limitations).

So do you have sides and heights now and are going to put in more heights? Where do you place them?

 

No  - currently I have 5.1 with the addition of 2 height speakers (using PLIIz or Neo:X). When the time comes, I will add an additional 2 height speakers towards the back of the room to give me 5.1 +4 if you will. I believe this will give me a good result from Atmos.

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Old 03-26-2014, 10:22 AM
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If I were Emotiva, I'd indefinitely postpone the XMC-1 until...
With all the changes coming, that does make sense. But so does the opposite: get the XMC-1 out as soon as possible to begin some return on investment. You can then use that money to hammer at lingering bugs and plan software & hardware upgrades (assuming it is really as modular as they claim).

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Old 03-26-2014, 10:23 AM
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OTOH Keith, if the XMC's stated modularity enables the addition of a board that permits the use of these advancements, that would be quite a coup especially if we see lower to mid priced AVR,s eschew or implement token low frequency room correction.

 

Yeah, and what do you think are the chances of a) Emo offering this and b) getting it to work properly?  ;)  They are not even offering basic Height channels via PLIIz or Neo:X, which speaks to their willingness to pay royalties.

 

IDK but I'd have thought the whole architecture would be different for object-audio.

 

Seems to the the XMC-1 is a one-trick pony and that one trick is Dirac. It will live or die on how well they implement that. Other than Dirac it is nothing special IMO, and in fact, un-special in that it will lack these new features (probably).

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Old 03-26-2014, 10:25 AM
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OTOH Keith, if the XMC's stated modularity enables the addition of a board that permits the use of these advancements, that would be quite a coup especially if we see lower to mid priced AVR,s eschew or implement token low frequency room correction.
And not just in the low frequencies, Chu. If Emo & Dirac get this right, I think a lot of folks who get their first taste of real state-of-the-art room correction, especially if it includes custom target curves, may value it as highly as, if not more highly than, some other features. Sure, it would be nice if the Emo had it all, but..............

 

That is true for sure, but Dirac would have to be significantly better than XT32, especially as the mainstream players will be offering XT32 AND object audio, HDMI 2.0, UKD4K, Dolby Vision and so on...

 

And most important of all, the XMC-1 would also have to be reliable and to work properly in all other areas, something which has so far eluded Emo wrt to processors.

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Old 03-26-2014, 10:27 AM
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That is true for sure, but Dirac would have to be significantly better than XT32,
Yup. The potential is there. The execution.......we'll have to wait and see!
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Old 03-26-2014, 10:31 AM
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If I were Emotiva, I'd indefinitely postpone the XMC-1 until...
With all the changes coming, that does make sense. But so does the opposite: get the XMC-1 out as soon as possible to begin some return on investment. You can then use that money to hammer at lingering bugs and plan software & hardware upgrades (assuming it is really as modular as they claim).

 

They have managed, from a marketing perspective, to put themselves in the worst possible position. It makes sense to delay the unit so they can incorporate true cutting edge features, but that is no longer a credible position for them giving the unit has suffered delay after delay. And it makes sense to rush it to market before the hyperchanges become reality. Rock, hard place.  As each day of delay passes, their window gets smaller and smaller. IMO they have missed the boat. Every day of additional delay now must be driving them nuts. They know what is coming, and they know the potential it has to kill the XMC-1 in the womb, but they don't dare release another lemon. I’d love to sit in on their daily production meetings.

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