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post #91 of 1235 Old 02-16-2014, 01:20 PM
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I have been on the fence lately about possibly upgrading my Integra 80.3 to something else already knowing that I would have to spend significantly more to hear any dramatic improvements until hearing of the XMC. The XMC-1 peaked my curiosity for the Dirac offering (smaller datasat unit) but given the different delays I will wait for the unbiased early adopters to review holding on to my Integra for awhile longer or just buck up and spend more on something else that's more established.

If the product comes out the box right it will shake things up a little.
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post #92 of 1235 Old 02-16-2014, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wkingincharge View Post

I have been on the fence lately about possibly upgrading my Integra 80.3 to something else already knowing that I would have to spend significantly more to hear any dramatic improvements until hearing of the XMC. The XMC-1 peaked my curiosity for the Dirac offering (smaller datasat unit) but given the different delays I will wait for the unbiased early adopters to review holding on to my Integra for awhile longer or just buck up and spend more on something else that's more established.

If the product comes out the box right it will shake things up a little.

You are smart to hold on to the 80.3 and wait for reviews from those that are unbiased. I bought the UMC-1 when it first came out to replace an Onkyo 886. With the UMC-1 in my system I heard no significant SQ improvements with movies and multichannel music over the 886. I did feel that the UMC-1 handled two channel music better but it wasn't a huge difference. What I got with the UMC-1 was operational issues that forced me to put the 886 back in my system and return the UMC-1.

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, watch it grow and my wallet shrink ;-).

 

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post #93 of 1235 Old 02-17-2014, 03:44 PM
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Hi Folks. It has been a while since I last posted here. I did a lengthy review on the first ERC-1 player a few years back in 2009 which I still have. I have been on the original early registration for the XMC and have been completely patient to let the team build the product they want us to have and you know they want it for themselves too.

Here is a new sub-site dedicated to the new XMC Gen 2. It looks like the HDMI 2.0 spec is still dynamic and they are releasing the XMC as HDMI 1.4b. Here is a link and you can see the new facility for assembly and such. I will be happy to share my experiences one I receive it. I have had great experiences with all products except the UMC-1. I currently have the UMC 200 and very happy with it. smile.gif

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post #94 of 1235 Old 02-17-2014, 04:08 PM
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I see that Emotiva is getting knocked around a bit here. Maybe deservedly so, I don't know. My experience with them is very limited. I've talked to them on the phone and I've purchased one of their inexpensive products to get an idea of what the product quality was like. I don't own and have never listened to any of their pre-pro or amplifier products.

 

I will say that the phono preamp that I purchased from them has been very satisfactory.  Even though my Marantz 8801 has a phono input, the sound quality I get going through the Emotiva phono preamp instead is far superior. The difference in detail and musicality is not subtle.    Will this translate to their XMC-1?  Only our ears will tell, when it becomes available.

 

For those who feel "led by a carrot", I can understand the frustration of delays and postponements. For me, this is not unexpected for a small company intending to put out a new and fairly unique product designed from the ground up. I for one, don't really give a hoot about what the latest and supposedly greatest chip is. I only care about how the thing looks, how the image running through it looks on my screen, and how it sounds through my now vintage speakers (and ears!). I don't change my equipment often. I'd still be using my Lexicon pre pro if weren't for the connectivity issues that newer sources and displays force us to contend with. I've always been a fan of the small company, responsive to it's customers, than the mass-market companies who can put out a "new" product (containing an upgrade or two) every couple of years, and do it on time.

 

The Emotiva people are making big promises. They strike me as a company who are interested in their customers' being satisfied, or they'll do everything they can to make it right, including taking it back and /or offering unheard of discounts.

 

Will I buy their XMC-1. Yeah, I will. I expect that either it will sound as good or better than the Lexicon Pre-Pro that has spoiled me for the past decade, or that they will refund my money. Marantz, Denon, Onkyo, Integra...are good names and represent the high end of the mass market, but they are much more similar to each other than different, and I am not impressed with what I have, Audyssey 32XT not withstanding.  No doubt, they'll have an "upgraded" model in a year or two.  So...here's hoping that Emotiva delivers and "knocks it out of the park" with little or no glitches.

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post #95 of 1235 Old 02-17-2014, 04:21 PM
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I see that Emotiva is getting knocked around a bit here. Maybe deservedly so, I don't know. My experience with them is very limited. I've talked to them on the phone and I've purchased one of their inexpensive products to get an idea of what the product quality was like. I don't own and have never listened to any of their pre-pro or amplifier products.

I will say that the phono preamp that I purchased from them has been very satisfactory.  Even though my Marantz 8801 has a phono input, the sound quality I get going through the Emotiva phono preamp instead is far superior. The difference in detail and musicality is not subtle.    Will this translate to their XMC-1?  Only our ears will tell, when it becomes available.

For those who feel "led by a carrot", I can understand the frustration of delays and postponements. For me, this is not unexpected for a small company intending to put out a new and fairly unique product designed from the ground up. I for one, don't really give a hoot about what the latest and supposedly greatest chip is. I only care about how the thing looks, how the image running through it looks on my screen, and how it sounds through my now vintage speakers (and ears!). I don't change my equipment often. I'd still be using my Lexicon pre pro if weren't for the connectivity issues that newer sources and displays force us to contend with. I've always been a fan of the small company, responsive to it's customers, than the mass-market companies who can put out a "new" product (containing an upgrade or two) every couple of years, and do it on time.

The Emotiva people are making big promises. They strike me as a company who are interested in their customers' being satisfied, or they'll do everything they can to make it right, including taking it back and /or offering unheard of discounts.

Will I buy their XMC-1. Yeah, I will. I expect that either it will sound as good or better than the Lexicon Pre-Pro that has spoiled me for the past decade, or that they will refund my money. Marantz, Denon, Onkyo, Integra...are good names and represent the high end of the mass market, but they are much more similar to each other than different, and I am not impressed with what I have, Audyssey 32XT not withstanding.  No doubt, they'll have an "upgraded" model in a year or two.  So...here's hoping that Emotiva delivers and "knocks it out of the park" with little or no glitches.

Emotiva's track record speaks for itself IMO, but they're not the first small company or developer to run into vaporware issues or problematic production scale-up issues. The only other proposed Dirac solution in a box that's cheaper than a $20K Datasat is a standalone run-time option that Carl Huff's been working on since at least 2011. It's been 45 to 60 days away for almost three years, and if the product makes its way into production, it may well become obsolete if the XMC-1 actually delivers on both a "lite", minimally buggy pre/pro implementation of Dirac with multichannel processing, and the ability to upgrade to a more fully featured Dirac RCS.

Stuart

 

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post #96 of 1235 Old 02-17-2014, 06:19 PM
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Outlaw had an epic fail as well, at least Emo keeps trying. The suspense is killing me, I wish I hadn't looked at the forum and seen the FEb 14 announcement biggrin.gif
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post #97 of 1235 Old 02-20-2014, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

I don't expect Laufman to know every detail about every product. But I do expect that he has sufficiently competent people he can call upon who are eminently knowledgeable. Do either...

He wrote that completely on his own and was mistaken about the details.
He wrote that after consulting with someone who misinformed him.
It was written for him just like people in politics have speech writers and he just issued it as his own after some editing.

Either way, it makes him look like a clueless fool.

True but no worse than those who defend him no matter what. They love to chase the carrot.
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post #98 of 1235 Old 02-20-2014, 11:22 PM
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Having followed the Outlaw debacle before, I'm not sure why some of us still chase that carrot eek.gif

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post #99 of 1235 Old 02-21-2014, 12:06 AM
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Having followed the Outlaw debacle before, I'm not sure why some of us still chase that carrot eek.gif

Because denon onkyo et all never have a carrot to chase ;just something that regularly turns up out of the blue with no hint of its capabilities beforehand eek.gifbiggrin.gif
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post #100 of 1235 Old 02-21-2014, 03:41 AM
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There seems to be an unending new (and gullible) supply of fish in the Emo lake. I do hope that the new pre-pro appears and is absent of major defects but I've been around long enough to be highly doubtful.
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post #101 of 1235 Old 02-21-2014, 04:10 AM
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There seems to be an unending new (and gullible) supply of fish in the Emo lake. I do hope that the new pre-pro appears and is absent of major defects but I've been around long enough to be highly doubtful.

 

Well, they say March for first shipping... that's a week away.  Mind you, they said April on the dedicated XMC website. Who knows!

 

Like you, I hope it is all it promises to be. But also like you, I am sceptical...  I'll be delighted to be proved wrong.



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post #102 of 1235 Old 02-21-2014, 05:43 AM
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True but no worse than those who defend him no matter what. They love to chase the carrot.

I couldn't agree more, the fanboys are ready to jump all over anyone who questions the information coming from he Emotiva camp.
Check out this thread from the "new price is still a bargain" thread over At the Emo lounge....this guy thinks he is the captain of the Emo police


"I think the XMC will be a great product. I look forward to it...whenever it is ready. Some people insist on giving Big Dan advice on how to run his business and what to say and not say. Frankly, that is not their call. And if they really do not like what he does, then move on. Really...that is not a fanboy comment..it is a reality check for some to consider. Right?

You know who you are, so I will not call you out. But, if you ask in public you will force me to not deny you. So, be careful! If you ask in public...
Mark"
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post #103 of 1235 Old 02-21-2014, 06:51 AM
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I couldn't agree more, the fanboys are ready to jump all over anyone who questions the information coming from he Emotiva camp.
Check out this thread from the "new price is still a bargain" thread over At the Emo lounge....this guy thinks he is the captain of the Emo police


"I think the XMC will be a great product. I look forward to it...whenever it is ready. Some people insist on giving Big Dan advice on how to run his business and what to say and not say. Frankly, that is not their call. And if they really do not like what he does, then move on. Really...that is not a fanboy comment..it is a reality check for some to consider. Right?

You know who you are, so I will not call you out. But, if you ask in public you will force me to not deny you. So, be careful! If you ask in public...
Mark"

He sounds like the #1 fanboy, which is fine, except admit the truth. It is more sad than laughable. It is like when someone says, "This is not a pyramid scheme.........", you know it is a pyramid scheme.
It is like the old adage, "The crime was bad enough, but the coverup is far worse."

They just don't get it - that the long time pattern of misstatements and false promises really hurt the brand they blindly defend.
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post #104 of 1235 Old 02-21-2014, 10:14 AM
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AFAIK The "brand" is great when it comes to amps, its pre-pros that they never seem to get right, even in their promotion. The statement that it would be HDMI 2 is either an out right lie or a monstrous mistake. Which I don't know. Lets see them deliver a real pre-pro on time and without major faults, it'll do wonders for their reputation.
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post #105 of 1235 Old 02-21-2014, 11:10 AM
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I was surprised to see the HDMI 2.0 announcement: this is new territory and most certainly will be problematic for any OEM to be the first to ship such a product:

even though HDMI 2.0 is supposed to be backward compatible, I suspect there will be a myriad of issues: it is just in the track record of HDMI compatibility: undoubtedly the worst, most problematic interface ever in the industry

I would hope for the latest HDMI 1.4b spec and perhaps an upgrade path to 2.0: it really is too early for 2.0 and the problems it will bring: just my opinion...
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post #106 of 1235 Old 02-21-2014, 11:34 AM
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I wish Emo was more clear about made in the USA. There is a fine line between "made in " and " assembled in " . They may well be waiting for parts to come across the pond and then across America . Once they have the parts I see no reason why they cant crank out a couple hundred of these things and get the ball rolling. Hell I can change an engine in a new chev truck in one day. They need to step up their game.
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post #107 of 1235 Old 02-21-2014, 12:24 PM
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I wish Emo was more clear about made in the USA. There is a fine line between "made in " and " assembled in " . They may well be waiting for parts to come across the pond and then across America . Once they have the parts I see no reason why they cant crank out a couple hundred of these things and get the ball rolling. Hell I can change an engine in a new chev truck in one day. They need to step up their game.

For FTZ tax purposes some years ago, it was possible for "assembled in the USA" to mean as little as combining a VCR completely built in Asia with an American made retail box and instruction manual.
_

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post #108 of 1235 Old 02-21-2014, 12:28 PM
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My guess is they are assembling parts made elsewhere and according to the video, performing some sort of basic tests to establish proof of life.

Questions that interest me though are things like...

Are they full time jobs with benefits or part time ones under the 30 hour threshold to avoid medical benefits. OTOH, are they contract jobs where the employee s responsible for all taxes and such?

What sort of wages?

Did Jade receive any tax incentives to create these jobs?

Are these jobs located in facilities already owned by Jade but are presently underutilized?

The XMC wontlastforever despite spins to the contrary. Hence, are there plans for other products to be assembled there so that the workers can continue to be employed?

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post #109 of 1235 Old 02-21-2014, 05:00 PM
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Well, they say March for first shipping... that's a week away.  Mind you, they said April on the dedicated XMC website. Who knows!
Quote:
Originally Posted by XMC website 
Look for the Emotiva XMC-1 in April 2014.

It doesn't say whether or not you'll find it though! biggrin.gif
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post #110 of 1235 Old 02-22-2014, 03:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Well, they say March for first shipping... that's a week away.  Mind you, they said April on the dedicated XMC website. Who knows!
Quote:
Originally Posted by XMC website 
Look for the Emotiva XMC-1 in April 2014.

It doesn't say whether or not you'll find it though! biggrin.gif

 

Haha. Good distinction.



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post #111 of 1235 Old 02-22-2014, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by xcapri79 View Post

He sounds like the #1 fanboy, which is fine, except admit the truth. It is more sad than laughable. It is like when someone says, "This is not a pyramid scheme.........", you know it is a pyramid scheme.
It is like the old adage, "The crime was bad enough, but the coverup is far worse."

They just don't get it - that the long time pattern of misstatements and false promises really hurt the brand they blindly defend.

If you want to see posts from Emotiva's real #1 fan over at the Lounge just look for posts from that old Saturday morning cartoon character, beep beep biggrin.gif.

Bill


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, watch it grow and my wallet shrink ;-).

 

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post #112 of 1235 Old 02-22-2014, 07:01 AM
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Hey I remember him! I don't go there anymore. Veiled threats are not my idea of a good time.
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post #113 of 1235 Old 02-22-2014, 09:08 AM
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I have the 40% off card so if it does prove itself to be a good product I may get one. I've always been waiting to see a pig fly!
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post #114 of 1235 Old 02-22-2014, 09:15 AM
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I couldn't agree more, the fanboys are ready to jump all over anyone who questions the information coming from he Emotiva camp.
Check out this thread from the "new price is still a bargain" thread over At the Emo lounge....this guy thinks he is the captain of the Emo police


"I think the XMC will be a great product. I look forward to it...whenever it is ready. Some people insist on giving Big Dan advice on how to run his business and what to say and not say. Frankly, that is not their call. And if they really do not like what he does, then move on. Really...that is not a fanboy comment..it is a reality check for some to consider. Right?

You know who you are, so I will not call you out. But, if you ask in public you will force me to not deny you. So, be careful! If you ask in public...
Mark"

Wow, that strikes me as an arrogant thing to say.  When klinemj and posters like him feel the need to make veiled threats, then you know things are not going well in Emoland. 

 

Personally I don't see why some are interested in the XMC-1.  It's outdated, has half the features of say a Marantz AV 7701 and will cost at least 300 more.  Those who got stuck with a UMC-1 at least have the 40% off card going for them, but someone looking for good bang for buck won't find it here.

 

Edit: I wasn't referring to you directly Theresa, I didn't see your post when I started mine!

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post #115 of 1235 Old 02-22-2014, 09:36 AM
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You may be right. I haven't examined what features it has except very shallowly. I'm very satisfied with my Denon anyway. I have it on right now and am very pleased with it. Unlike some others I don't go for a minimalist approach having a UMC-1 sitting in the old gear pile. I find many features useful. The only feature the 4520ci lacks that I would like to see is multichannel flac support.
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post #116 of 1235 Old 02-22-2014, 09:36 AM
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undoubtedly the worst, most problematic interface ever in the industry

+1
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post #117 of 1235 Old 02-22-2014, 09:59 AM
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Yeah, I wish they'd move to Display Port. But that would render obsolete all but my computer graphics card.
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post #118 of 1235 Old 02-22-2014, 10:33 AM
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Personally I don't see why some are interested in the XMC-1.
Dirac room correction. Hopefully, user-customizable Dirac room correction.
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post #119 of 1235 Old 02-22-2014, 10:46 AM
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Wow, that strikes me as an arrogant thing to say.  When klinemj and posters like him feel the need to make veiled threats, then you know things are not going well in Emoland. 

Personally I don't see why some are interested in the XMC-1.  It's outdated, has half the features of say a Marantz AV 7701 and will cost at least 300 more.  Those who got stuck with a UMC-1 at least have the 40% off card going for them, but someone looking for good bang for buck won't find it here.

Edit: I wasn't referring to you directly Theresa, I didn't see your post when I started mine!

Just curious, how is the XMC-1 outdated compared to the AV7701? The Marantz uses an older room correction version, does not have a fully balanced analog path...or are you referring to features like Airplay and iPad control?

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post #120 of 1235 Old 02-22-2014, 11:07 AM
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Just curious, how is the XMC-1 outdated compared to the AV7701? The Marantz uses an older room correction version, does not have a fully balanced analog path...or are you referring to features like Airplay and iPad control?

Yep, that and more zones, more HDMI inputs, flac file processing, more networking options, etc.  WRT the room correction, I'm not sure how the second from top of the line Audyssey correction, and is still current, can be labeled old, but how long has Dirac been around?  They seem fairly new and untested compared with Audyssey and the in house correction components from Pioneer or Yamaha.

 

Not you specifically, but in the UMC-200 threads, many emotiva fans claim they don't use room correction at all, now they are thrilled with the Dirac room correction.  

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