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Emotiva XMC-1 Pre/Pro

85K views 1K replies 116 participants last post by  markrubin 
#1 ·
Well it's official, the first pre/pro or receiver announced with HDMI 2.0. Will this change anyone's mind about getting it?
 
#977 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701  /t/1515163/emotiva-xmc-1-pre-pro/960#post_24630637


Seems I never learn

If you ever want to get your panties in a wad, just go visit www.WhatsBestForum.com . You can read all about the voodoo, black magic and other anti-science products with imaginary benefits. Not recommended if you have any blood pressure issues
 
#978 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy  /t/1515163/emotiva-xmc-1-pre-pro/960#post_24631068


If you ever want to get your panties in a wad, just go visit www.WhatsBestForum.com . You can read all about the voodoo, black magic and other anti-science products with imaginary benefits. Not recommended if you have any blood pressure issues

Jeez, when you put it that way, now I HAVE to go check out this link.
 
#979 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy  /t/1515163/emotiva-xmc-1-pre-pro/960#post_24631068



If you ever want to get your panties in a wad, just go visit www.WhatsBestForum.com . You can read all about the voodoo, black magic and other anti-science products with imaginary benefits. Not recommended if you have any blood pressure issues
 

 

  that sounds awesome!!!!

 

  cheers
 
#980 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701  /t/1515163/emotiva-xmc-1-pre-pro/960#post_24629407


Can you point to some objective evidence of that claim?
Just look for papers that go over DAC designs. Even things like linear phase vs min-phase filtering for up-sampling influence the sound in audible ways. Sure, it's subtle, which is why may of those papers include blind testing, in addition to measurements.


I use an external DAC with my laptop, because the built-in headphone jack has a subtle but annoying whine that is audible with sensitive headphones. The built-in DAC and headphone jack suffer from compromises, either due to power, space, or cost constraints, or because it didn't receive the same level of care as the external DAC. I assume it's something due to lack of shielding or power isolation. There is no question that it's audible and objectively measurable.
 
#981 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen  /t/1515163/emotiva-xmc-1-pre-pro/960#post_24633148



Just look for papers that go over DAC designs. Even things like linear phase vs min-phase filtering for up-sampling influence the sound in audible ways. Sure, it's subtle, which is why may of those papers include blind testing, in addition to measurements.


I use an external DAC with my laptop, because the built-in headphone jack has a subtle but annoying whine that is audible with sensitive headphones. The built-in DAC and headphone jack suffer from compromises, either due to power, space, or cost constraints, or because it didn't receive the same level of care as the external DAC. I assume it's something due to lack of shielding or power isolation. There is no question that it's audible and objectively measurable.
 

 

   not many avrs can compete with external dacs...

 

    cheers
 
#982 ·
BTW, I spent the weekend playing with the Dirac for PC trial. It's good!


Compared to Audyssey XT32 Pro, you can take measurements, test out tweaks, and flip between curves/filters MUCH faster. That alone makes it much more practical to iterate and get better results.


The results measured well, too.
 
#984 ·
LOL, you've gotta be kidding me... this vaporware now has a June ETA!? My God. What's team blue saying over there on the lemming forum? Are they still giving responses such as...



"nobody is forcing you do buy it"


"sheesh, nobody's perfect. Do you see the president of Sony posting on their forums?"


"I'll get it when I get it and I'm happy with that"


"everybody makes mistakes, I'm sure Emotiva will address the hold up in a future podcast"


"I don't need 3D so I don't mind that they lied to my face about making my UMC-1 upgradable in the near future"


"grrrrrrr"



When does it all just get to be too much? When are they just going to lay their hand down and say "we're sorry, we've botched this entire thing and we're going to stick to amps and rebadging Chinese made garbage as our own".
 
#985 ·
While I share many of the sentiments in the post above about this XMC-1 mess; I would not go so far as to call their products "chinese made garbage". Please do not misunderstand me, Emo has royaly botched this whole mess. I can understand delays, but pick a date and stick to it OR don't pick a date at all and just keep consumers guessing.


The feature set is actually pretty amazing at the pricepoint. I will applaud Emo on their ambition and just shake my head at the whole customer relations portion of it. Granted if the XMC-1 actually does come out and has generally positive reviews then I will probably own one since I have dealt with Emo customer service and they are top notch.
 
#986 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by copene  /t/1515163/emotiva-xmc-1-pre-pro/960#post_24634961


LOL, you've gotta be kidding me... this vaporware now has a June ETA!? My God. What's team blue saying over there on the lemming forum? Are they still giving responses such as...



"nobody is forcing you do buy it"


"sheesh, nobody's perfect. Do you see the president of Sony posting on their forums?"


"I'll get it when I get it and I'm happy with that"


"everybody makes mistakes, I'm sure Emotiva will address the hold up in a future podcast"


"I don't need 3D so I don't mind that they lied to my face about making my UMC-1 upgradable in the near future"


"grrrrrrr"



When does it all just get to be too much? When are they just going to lay their hand down and say "we're sorry, we've botched this entire thing and we're going to stick to amps and rebadging Chinese made garbage as our own".





Yep, every one of them is still being used. Sigh!!
 
#988 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by copene  /t/1515163/emotiva-xmc-1-pre-pro/960#post_24634961


LOL, you've gotta be kidding me... this vaporware now has a June ETA!? My God. What's team blue saying over there on the lemming forum? Are they still giving responses such as...



"nobody is forcing you do buy it"


"sheesh, nobody's perfect. Do you see the president of Sony posting on their forums?"


"I'll get it when I get it and I'm happy with that"


"everybody makes mistakes, I'm sure Emotiva will address the hold up in a future podcast"


"I don't need 3D so I don't mind that they lied to my face about making my UMC-1 upgradable in the near future"


"grrrrrrr"



When does it all just get to be too much? When are they just going to lay their hand down and say "we're sorry, we've botched this entire thing and we're going to stick to amps and rebadging Chinese made garbage as our own".

Dan is like the pied piper of Pre/Pro's
I am glad it is delayed, somehow I got in my head I needed a new pre/pro and started looking at the CX-A5000 and then landed back at Emo back in early Feb and saw the XMC-1 announcement and figured I would go for that. Now with all this latest BS I have moved on to new summer related retail therapy. So thanks Dan , you saved me a few grand.
 
#989 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy  /t/1515163/emotiva-xmc-1-pre-pro/950_50#post_24631068


If you ever want to get your panties in a wad, just go visit www.WhatsBestForum.com . You can read all about the voodoo, black magic and other anti-science products with imaginary benefits. Not recommended if you have any blood pressure issues
OMFG. I had to stop after less than one minute when I found someone pushing their $1000 device that breaks in cables .


Fools and their money are soon parted...
 
#991 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by runninkyle17  /t/1515163/emotiva-xmc-1-pre-pro/960#post_24635151


While I share many of the sentiments in the post above about this XMC-1 mess; I would not go so far as to call their products "chinese made garbage". Please do not misunderstand me, Emo has royaly botched this whole mess. I can understand delays, but pick a date and stick to it OR don't pick a date at all and just keep consumers guessing.

The feature set is actually pretty amazing at the pricepoint. I will applaud Emo on their ambition and just shake my head at the whole customer relations portion of it. Granted if the XMC-1 actually does come out and has generally positive reviews then I will probably own one since I have dealt with Emo customer service and they are top notch.
 

It is?  Seems to me to have the feature set of a 3-4 year old mid-priced AVR. What is it that amazes you?  (Exclude Dirac, which is the one feature that might make the XMC-1 worthwhile, depending on the implementation, which is still -- even this close to launch -- apparently secret).
 
#992 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2  /t/1515163/emotiva-xmc-1-pre-pro/960#post_24638293


Cable break in devices have fallen to the $1,000 range? That's awesome!! I can remember when you couldn't reliably break in a cable for less than $3-4k.
 

Yes, but I've heard that these low-cost cable break-in devices can't handle directional cables at all, so their value is suspect.
 
#993 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701  /t/1515163/emotiva-xmc-1-pre-pro/950_50#post_24638466

Quote:
Originally Posted by runninkyle17  /t/1515163/emotiva-xmc-1-pre-pro/960#post_24635151


While I share many of the sentiments in the post above about this XMC-1 mess; I would not go so far as to call their products "chinese made garbage". Please do not misunderstand me, Emo has royaly botched this whole mess. I can understand delays, but pick a date and stick to it OR don't pick a date at all and just keep consumers guessing.

The feature set is actually pretty amazing at the pricepoint. I will applaud Emo on their ambition and just shake my head at the whole customer relations portion of it. Granted if the XMC-1 actually does come out and has generally positive reviews then I will probably own one since I have dealt with Emo customer service and they are top notch.

It is?  Seems to me to have the feature set of a 3-4 year old mid-priced AVR. What is it that amazes you?  (Exclude Dirac, which is the one feature that might make the XMC-1 worthwhile, depending on the implementation, which is still -- even this close to launch -- apparently secret).

Aside from Dirac, I find the 11-channel parametric EQ, stereo bass management, and independent crossover settings, multichannel DSD support (though I'll probably still let my Oppo do the DSD-PCM converting), and dual HDMI outputs all appealing.
 
#994 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcuslaw  /t/1515163/emotiva-xmc-1-pre-pro/990#post_24638545

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701  /t/1515163/emotiva-xmc-1-pre-pro/950_50#post_24638466

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by runninkyle17  /t/1515163/emotiva-xmc-1-pre-pro/960#post_24635151


While I share many of the sentiments in the post above about this XMC-1 mess; I would not go so far as to call their products "chinese made garbage". Please do not misunderstand me, Emo has royaly botched this whole mess. I can understand delays, but pick a date and stick to it OR don't pick a date at all and just keep consumers guessing.

The feature set is actually pretty amazing at the pricepoint. I will applaud Emo on their ambition and just shake my head at the whole customer relations portion of it. Granted if the XMC-1 actually does come out and has generally positive reviews then I will probably own one since I have dealt with Emo customer service and they are top notch.

It is?  Seems to me to have the feature set of a 3-4 year old mid-priced AVR. What is it that amazes you?  (Exclude Dirac, which is the one feature that might make the XMC-1 worthwhile, depending on the implementation, which is still -- even this close to launch -- apparently secret).

Aside from Dirac, I find the 11-channel parametric EQ, stereo bass management, and independent crossover settings, multichannel DSD support (though I'll probably still let my Oppo do the DSD-PCM converting), and dual HDMI outputs all appealing.
 

Nice to have I agree, but...

 

If Dirarc is as good as hoped, the PEQ should be redundant (unless it can be perhaps used 'on top' of Dirac?). Many low-cost AVRs have dual sub outputs but I agree that it's only those which feature something akin to Audyssey's SUB EQ HT that allows for dual subs to be independently managed. Dual HDMI outputs are commonplace elsewhere at much lower cost. I agree that these features are nice to have but I hardly class them as "amazing" for a 2 grand unit.

 

But what seems to me to be 'amazing' is what the XMC-1 doesn’t have, for a 2 grand unit. It doesn’t have 9.2/11.2 for example. Or DTS Neo:X/Dolby PLIIz. Or HDMI 2.0. Or networking capability. But the  biggest thing it doesn't have is object-based audio, which will be announced almost as soon as the first XMC-1 units reach customers.
 
#995 ·
All good points but notice how I said "appealing" not "amazing". Unfortunately, or fortunately, the window has shut for me to afford an XMC around the apparent June 2014 timeframe. So, I will watch things unfold from the sideline. If you're right about object based room correction, then I might pass on the XMC all together.
 
#996 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcuslaw  /t/1515163/emotiva-xmc-1-pre-pro/990#post_24638817


All good points but notice how I said "appealing" not "amazing". Unfortunately, or fortunately, the window has shut for me to afford an XMC around the apparent June 2014 timeframe. So, I will watch things unfold from the sideline. If you're right about object based room correction, then I might pass on the XMC all together.
 

Yes, fair comment, you did say "appealing" and I agree with you.  I think that most industry observers agree now that object-based audio will be launched in AVRs and processors at CEDIA in September, with customer roll-out either later this year or early next year. Seems to me that the prospect of Dolby Atmos is way more exciting/appealing/amazing than anything that the XMC-1 has to offer.

 

Does anyone else think it's odd that this close to launch of the XMC-1 we still have no real idea of what their implementation of Dirac will be like? This is the 'killer feature' but all we know about it is that it is a 'custom version', which could mean anything. I wonder why Emotiva is playing this so close to their chest?
 
#997 ·
I can't recall the source, but wasn't it mentioned in a podcast or in the Lounge that Lonnie and his team and the Dirac engineers were attempting to "work out differences" with the Dirac folks wanting to scale back Dirac features and Lonnie pushing for more?
 
#998 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcuslaw  /t/1515163/emotiva-xmc-1-pre-pro/990#post_24638895


I can't recall the source, but wasn't it mentioned in a podcast or in the Lounge that Lonnie and his team and the Dirac engineers were attempting to "work out differences" with the Dirac folks wanting to scale back Dirac features and Lonnie pushing for more?
 

Sure, but all that must have been sorted out some time back if product is now being assembled and is ready for launch imminently, as Emo have told us.
 
#999 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701  /t/1515163/emotiva-xmc-1-pre-pro/990#post_24638739


Nice to have I agree, but...


If Dirarc is as good as hoped, the PEQ should be redundant (unless it can be perhaps used 'on top' of Dirac?). Many low-cost AVRs have dual sub outputs but I agree that it's only those which feature something akin to Audyssey's SUB EQ HT that allows for dual subs to be independently managed. Dual HDMI outputs are commonplace elsewhere at much lower cost. I agree that these features are nice to have but I hardly class them as "amazing" for a 2 grand unit.


But what seems to me to be 'amazing' is what the XMC-1 doesn’t have, for a 2 grand unit. It doesn’t have 9.2/11.2 for example. Or DTS Neo:X/Dolby PLIIz. Or HDMI 2.0. Or networking capability. But the  biggest thing it doesn't have is object-based audio, which will be announced almost as soon as the first XMC-1 units reach customers.

Keith,

Whether or not one agrees that object-based audio is enough of a game changer to imminently make the XMC-1 "obsolete", is it confirmed that the XMC-1 has no networking capability?


Otherwise, I hope that the 4K pass-through and XLR pre-outs are worth the price tag, beyond the Emotiva-specific version of Dirac....or you're a big fan of stereo bass and parametric equalizers...because there's nothing else in this unit that's unique that, say, a Denon X4000 wouldn't have. Even if you don't like Audyssey, an Oppo with two HDMI inputs and a MiniDSP NanoAVR to an X4000 on HDMI input would be almost as useful IMO for most users...and if you insist, you could get your sources to a PC into, say, JRiver, and use the PC version of Dirac RCS and feed that into an AVR or pre-pro....
 
#1,000 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker  /t/1515163/emotiva-xmc-1-pre-pro/950_50#post_24638978

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701  /t/1515163/emotiva-xmc-1-pre-pro/990#post_24638739


Nice to have I agree, but...


If Dirarc is as good as hoped, the PEQ should be redundant (unless it can be perhaps used 'on top' of Dirac?). Many low-cost AVRs have dual sub outputs but I agree that it's only those which feature something akin to Audyssey's SUB EQ HT that allows for dual subs to be independently managed. Dual HDMI outputs are commonplace elsewhere at much lower cost. I agree that these features are nice to have but I hardly class them as "amazing" for a 2 grand unit.


But what seems to me to be 'amazing' is what the XMC-1 doesn’t have, for a 2 grand unit. It doesn’t have 9.2/11.2 for example. Or DTS Neo:X/Dolby PLIIz. Or HDMI 2.0. Or networking capability. But the  biggest thing it doesn't have is object-based audio, which will be announced almost as soon as the first XMC-1 units reach customers.

Keith,

Whether or not one agrees that object-based audio is enough of a game changer to imminently make the XMC-1 "obsolete", is it confirmed that the XMC-1 has no networking capability?


Otherwise, I hope that the 4K pass-through and XLR pre-outs are worth the price tag, beyond the Emotiva-specific version of Dirac....or you're a big fan of stereo bass and parametric equalizers...because there's nothing else in this unit that's unique that, say, a Denon X4000 wouldn't have. Even if you don't like Audyssey, an Oppo with two HDMI inputs and a MiniDSP NanoAVR to an X4000 on HDMI input would be almost as useful IMO for most users...and if you insist, you could get your sources to a PC into, say, JRiver, and use the PC version of Dirac RCS and feed that into an AVR or pre-pro....

The initial specs featured network capability but that was removed around the same time that the HDMI 2.0 hiccup occurred.
 
#1,001 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker  /t/1515163/emotiva-xmc-1-pre-pro/990#post_24638978

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701  /t/1515163/emotiva-xmc-1-pre-pro/990#post_24638739


Nice to have I agree, but...


If Dirarc is as good as hoped, the PEQ should be redundant (unless it can be perhaps used 'on top' of Dirac?). Many low-cost AVRs have dual sub outputs but I agree that it's only those which feature something akin to Audyssey's SUB EQ HT that allows for dual subs to be independently managed. Dual HDMI outputs are commonplace elsewhere at much lower cost. I agree that these features are nice to have but I hardly class them as "amazing" for a 2 grand unit.


But what seems to me to be 'amazing' is what the XMC-1 doesn’t have, for a 2 grand unit. It doesn’t have 9.2/11.2 for example. Or DTS Neo:X/Dolby PLIIz. Or HDMI 2.0. Or networking capability. But the  biggest thing it doesn't have is object-based audio, which will be announced almost as soon as the first XMC-1 units reach customers.

Keith,

Whether or not one agrees that object-based audio is enough of a game changer to imminently make the XMC-1 "obsolete", is it confirmed that the XMC-1 has no networking capability?

 
 

Networking isn’t in the feature list published on Emo's site, here .  It has an Ethernet port for FW updates, control and setup of Dirac etc, but no streaming capability, no Internet radio etc.

 
Quote:
 Otherwise, I hope that the 4K pass-through and XLR pre-outs are worth the price tag, beyond the Emotiva-specific version of Dirac....or you're a big fan of stereo bass and parametric equalizers...because there's nothing else in this unit that's unique that, say, a Denon X4000 wouldn't have. Even if you don't like Audyssey, an Oppo with two HDMI inputs and a MiniDSP NanoAVR to an X4000 on HDMI input would be almost as useful IMO for most users...and if you insist, you could get your sources to a PC into, say, JRiver, and use the PC version of Dirac RCS and feed that into an AVR or pre-pro....
 

And remind me, the Denon X4000 comes with 7 decent amplifiers, 11.2 preouts, two additional Zones, networking, Audyssey XT32, Audyssey Pro capability, Neo:X, PLIIz, and the reliability of the Denon name, and it costs... about $1,000. Hmmm....
 
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