Emotiva XMC-1 Pre/Pro - Page 41 - AVS Forum
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Old 05-05-2014, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

Didn't say they didn't have a problem..

Just took issue with your post that said they were shipping "total bricks.."

You and I have a different definition of what that is.. that's all..

That user even says: "But now that it is happening on a second unit -- and not with all displays -- I am thinking the problem is mostly on my end."

HDMI Handshake Issues with the Fusion 8100

I owned an Anthem D2v that went through plenty of issues with HDMI connections, and they worked very had to solve them with their owners..

You are right.. it should be plug and play... but that also means that a cable run that works with one product doesn't work as well with another AVR/SSP.. I've experienced the same issues over the years (probably had close to 20 different AVR's and processors in the last 5 years...)

Past precedence would leave me to believe that Emo doesn't have the engineering chops to address such issues in house, nor the ability to get it out of the company contracted to build the units for them, in any kind of a timely manner...

Again, my issues is with the hyperbole of your original statement... "where the first ones off the line out in the wild are total bricks? These guys have no shame in spewing out half baked garbage. "

One user and his issue doesn't make a failed product launch...

Ok, what about the UMC-1 and UMC-200 then? Can you co-sign them?
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Old 05-05-2014, 02:53 PM
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Ok, what about the UMC-1 and UMC-200 then? Can you co-sign them?

Tell us about your experience with either of these units.
Otherwise, it seems that you are only a troll who jumps only on the weak and have no knowledge of audio.
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Old 05-05-2014, 02:58 PM
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Well, only two Fusion owners reported and one of them had a defective unit which wouldn't pass video. That seems to be a pretty damning indictment of an AVR. Fortunately, Emotiva replaced it promptly. Unfortunately the replacement was defective too. So, of three units reviewed, two were defective.  It's a very small sample of course, but nonetheless, based on actual user reports, it seems to have gotten off to a poor start. Hopefully, more owners will report with better experiences.

The guy who had two units commented that the display was different on both units - on one of them the lettering is cut off at the bottom when viewed square on, but not on the other. That would kinda worry me...



Not nearly as damning as those against Onkyo.
Since you failed miserably at finding the Audyssey bug it seems like you spend a lot of time trying to post useless info in trying to keep from looking so bad. Redundancy in your criticism of Emo really makes you look more foolish than their fanboys.
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Old 05-05-2014, 03:29 PM
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[...] Onkyo [...] criticism [...] makes you look more foolish than their fanboys.

Guess it works both ways smile.gif
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Old 05-05-2014, 03:34 PM
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Guess it works both ways smile.gif

Guess you don't understand either. Not surprising.
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Old 05-05-2014, 03:42 PM
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time to move on please

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Old 05-05-2014, 05:19 PM
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Have you had the chance to skim over the Emotiva Fusion 8100 thread where the first ones off the line out in the wild are total bricks? These guys have no shame in spewing out half baked garbage. The XMC, if it ever comes out, is going to be the death of Emo selling processors.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1517916/emotiva-fusion-8100-receiver-has-been-released

I have been critical of Emotiva in the past on certain aspects of their processors. Yes they have had issues but so hasn't just about every other processor manufacturer especially when HDMI comes into play. But to say that the XMC-1 will "be the death of Emo selling processors" is a bit much IMO. I'm hoping the XMC-1 is as trouble free as possible and a big hit for Emotiva. Will you post back in this thread with hat in hand and a little crow au jus on your chin if the XMC-1 is a big hit wink.gif?

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Old 05-05-2014, 07:08 PM
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time to move on please

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Wouldn't it be best just to lock this thread until such a time as the unit is released? This is supposed to be more of technical forum, and i see nothing technical in the never ending bitchfest this thread has become.
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Old 05-05-2014, 08:22 PM
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Gotcha. Honestly, if this was a product I was interested in I wouldn't be too upset by offering a regular version of Dirac with the option to invest more for the higher end. Audyssey does this with consumer vs pro, albeit at a much lower cost (even if you factor in the cost of the pro kit). The question would be whether you could take full advantage of their $900 premium version with the XMC. This would bring the price to $2900 which is still on the lower end of the price spectrum for a processor. And you aren't even coming close to touching the price of any other processor on the market that features Dirac. Guess we'll see how it all pans out.

Potentially $2900 for the full deal now? (Though I guess it depends on exactly how the standard version is decontented.)

IMO, high end audio/HT kit is like luxury cars. They haven't changed much in the last several years, but there's a bit of depreciation. So people interested in spending $3k on a pre-pro may cross-shop used Anthem AVM/D's with new XMC-1's. There, the room correction is known excellent, they've ironed out many HDMI bugs, and the audio signal path is known excellent. The XMC-1 doesn't seem to offer features (beyond the different RCS) that the older ones don't also offer.

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Old 05-05-2014, 08:33 PM
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Potentially $2900 for the full deal now? (Though I guess it depends on exactly how the standard version is decontented.)

IMO, high end audio/HT kit is like luxury cars. They haven't changed much in the last several years, but there's a bit of depreciation. So people interested in spending $3k on a pre-pro may cross-shop used Anthem AVM/D's with new XMC-1's. There, the room correction is known excellent, they've ironed out many HDMI bugs, and the audio signal path is known excellent. The XMC-1 doesn't seem to offer features (beyond the different RCS) that the older ones don't also offer.

I'm not sure that owners of Datasat RS20i or pro Trinnov units would agree smile.gif....those units have upgradable firmware and at least the Trinnov branded units can scale up the number of channels, with an incremental investment.

I think it depends on how you define "hi end". If you're talking about one of those behemoth Denon AVRs like the 5803, which don't have HDMI, REQ, or video processing, and only go to 7.1, that's not a particularly good value. Nor would a Denon DVD-5910 be (former flagship DVD/SACD/etc. player, which is obsolete with the Oppo 95/105 and the introduction of BluRays IMO). There's one guy here (ss9001) that has clung onto his elderly Pioneer Susano as special purpose amp, due to the specific kind of speakers he's got, but that's a special case.

Also, while I agree that pre/pros are fungible today, a monoblock or specialized amp won't necessarily lose value among a certain niche, and speakers lose value, but you can keep the same speaker set for years, maybe even a decade, with little loss in generality (although you may need more speakers if you're in the HT world and looking to scale up to more channels). The same with modern subs. I personally have two HSU ULS-15, and I don't see swapping them out anytime soon. I may add to them, but a wholesale switch to something else is unlikely - unless we move into a big house with a dedicated room, in which case I'd join the Seaton club... tongue.gif

As to the $2900 "full deal", I think that's just speculation by Kris D. about what an upgrade to "premium Dirac RCS" might run. Certainly Emotiva hasn't announced anything...

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Old 05-06-2014, 05:09 AM
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Not nearly as damning as those against Onkyo.
Since you failed miserably at finding the Audyssey bug it seems like you spend a lot of time trying to post useless info in trying to keep from looking so bad. Redundancy in your criticism of Emo really makes you look more foolish than their fanboys.

 

I sure am loving my 5509. It has been 100% faultless now for well over two years. And everything on it works 100% as it is meant to. It is truly a fabulous processor. I’d never even consider swapping it for the XMC-1, which seems so retrograde, even compared with my 2 year + Onk.

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Old 05-06-2014, 05:46 AM
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time to move on please

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Wouldn't it be best just to lock this thread until such a time as the unit is released? This is supposed to be more of technical forum, and i see nothing technical in the never ending bitchfest this thread has become.

not sure we need to do that yet...but members should keep in mind they could be asked to leave the thread (thread ban) if this continues....

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Old 05-06-2014, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

Potentially $2900 for the full deal now? (Though I guess it depends on exactly how the standard version is decontented.)

IMO, high end audio/HT kit is like luxury cars. They haven't changed much in the last several years, but there's a bit of depreciation. So people interested in spending $3k on a pre-pro may cross-shop used Anthem AVM/D's with new XMC-1's. There, the room correction is known excellent, they've ironed out many HDMI bugs, and the audio signal path is known excellent. The XMC-1 doesn't seem to offer features (beyond the different RCS) that the older ones don't also offer.

And like many high end cars they are usually geared for high end performance and not bells and whistles. If you look at most of the highly regarded SSPs on the market today (especially the expensive ones) most of them lack most of the bells and whistles found on the lower priced ones. The XMC is what I would call a low priced SSP and its feature set is fine for those that don't necessarily need a lot of bells and whistles and stickers on the front. But as I've mentioned before the only real intriguing feature is Dirac. Since we don't know how it will be implemented and what it can or can't do, it is hard to say if it will be a big deal. The $900 upgrade to full Dirac was only based on the quote someone did from Emotiva, I have absolutely no idea what the XMC will or won't allow you to do with Dirac. At this point it would take a lot for me to want to move away from my D2V. I absolutely love the sound it provides for both music and movies. If Atmos proves to be worthy I may look into that but my theatrical experiences with it have left me skeptical so far. I'm sure I'll hear a lot of Atmos demos at CEDIA though so maybe that will change my outlook on it. But complex room EQ is extremely hard to do and there is definitely room for improvement in the solutions today. I love ARC but it doesn't do a lot of things (time domain correction) that I know are very important. The room and your speakers interaction with it plays the largest role in what you hear by far. Adding more speakers to a bad room with poor acoustical performance doesn't make it better.
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Old 05-06-2014, 10:07 AM
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Complex room equalization is hard to do because maybe it hasn't drawn sufficiently bright talent. The really bright and skilled talent is gobbled up by folks like google, Microsoft, apple, and the like. Maybe one day, someone or some group from one of those companies is going to come up with something that addresses this area. Maybe.

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Old 05-06-2014, 10:22 AM
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Complex room equalization is hard to do because maybe it hasn't drawn sufficiently bright talent. The really bright and skilled talent is gobbled up by folks like google, Microsoft, apple, and the like. Maybe one day, someone or some group from one of those companies is going to come up with something that addresses this area. Maybe.

I think there is incredible talent involved in digital room correction. Ron Genereux who I had the pleasure of working with (Cambridge Signal Technology - the SigTech room correction product which was the first commercially available time domain based room correction system) was incredibly bright. The folks behind Audyssey are as well and I would suggest those behind Dirac follow suit. But DRC will never generate the kind of potential net worth one might achieve from the Apples/Googles . So the masses of really bright talent follow the $$$$. Most audio technicians follow their passion.
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Old 05-06-2014, 10:25 AM
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The room and your speakers interaction with it plays the largest role in what you hear by far. Adding more speakers to a bad room with poor acoustical performance doesn't make it better.

Amen! Amen! Amen!
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Old 05-06-2014, 10:33 AM
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There's one guy here (ss9001) that has clung onto his elderly Pioneer Susano as special purpose amp, due to the specific kind of speakers he's got, but that's a special case.

my ears are burning wink.gif

yes, as many of you know, I still have & use the SC-09TX with last year's Pio SC-68 as a front end to the more powerful amps in the SC-09. I also use the preamp side of the 09 for some legacy gear, like an ILink'd Pioneer player. maybe I'm unique but I know of one guy in Canada who bought an SC-79 this year but couldn't bring himself to sell his SC-09! he's keeping it for a 2nd system. I'm not alone smile.gif

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Old 05-06-2014, 10:36 AM
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Amen! Amen! Amen!

+1
I've been saying that since I joined AVS, because it's true smile.gif Thanks, Kris for posting that reminder.

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Old 05-06-2014, 10:42 AM
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I have been critical of Emotiva in the past on certain aspects of their processors. Yes they have had issues but so hasn't just about every other processor manufacturer especially when HDMI comes into play. But to say that the XMC-1 will "be the death of Emo selling processors" is a bit much IMO. I'm hoping the XMC-1 is as trouble free as possible and a big hit for Emotiva. Will you post back in this thread with hat in hand and a little crow au jus on your chin if the XMC-1 is a big hit wink.gif?

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LOL, yes I'll eat crow. I'll also set up a nice big net so that the flying pig doesn't splatter against any condominiums.
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Old 05-06-2014, 10:44 AM
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The $900 upgrade to full Dirac was only based on the quote someone did from Emotiva, I have absolutely no idea what the XMC will or won't allow you to do with Dirac.

I'm glad you clarified that because I was beginning to think Emotiva had decided to offer the option to do a full version upgrade which might change my mind on this prepro (not). but as long as it's just speculating on possibilities, I'm not going to get excited wink.gif

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Old 05-06-2014, 02:18 PM
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I realize it is just speculation until a unit is actually released, but what are the thoughts on how this version of Dirac might compare to what's available in say a Denton X4000 or another AVR or prepro with XT32, Sub EQ, etc?
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Old 05-06-2014, 02:34 PM
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The expectation is that "this version" would apply the same wizardry that any version of Dirac would, except that you would get less capability to adjust and manipulate it for your own target curves, or number of target curves, etc. So you would have to sift through all the other threads on Dirac in general to get a consensus of how it differs. Or read some of their papers about what makes Dirac special.
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Old 05-06-2014, 02:36 PM
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No one can honestly answer that or speculate (okay the Emotiva brass could) - Dirac is the only feature that keeps me reading this thread. Okay, that and the possibility this product's "implementation" could be a possible case study for a number of different business courses.

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Old 05-06-2014, 04:55 PM
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Not a big contributor on this site, because I just don't have the time. That said, I am amazed at the polarization that gets created by companies like Emotiva. I have one of their amps, the XPA-5 that is freakin great for the money. And I also use the UMC-200 and it sounds awesome for $500. I've considered the XMC, but you guys give me pause, though it is simple to just wait and see how it goes. But the emotion around it--wow. It is just gear.
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Old 05-07-2014, 02:31 AM
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I realize it is just speculation until a unit is actually released, but what are the thoughts on how this version of Dirac might compare to what's available in say a Denton X4000 or another AVR or prepro with XT32, Sub EQ, etc?

 

Basically nobody knows. Emo have, strangely IMO at this late stage, not released any details of the version of Dirac that they will be using. All you can do at this stage is to google Dirac and get a feel for how Dirac differs from XT32 in broad terms and then, frankly, guess which features Emo will have included. Dirac is usually found in processors costing many thousands of dollars, so one thing that we can be sure of is that the version in the $2,000 XMC-1 will be some form of 'Dirac Lite'. but which features will have been left out is anyone's guess right now. I would say with some confidence that the 'full' version of Dirac is going to be better than any version of Audyssey - but the question, at this price point, is how Emo-Dirac will compare with Audyssey XT32. IMO, for the XMC-1 to be a success, it will have to beat Audyssey for REQ (Dirac is really the only feature that the XMC-1 has that makes it a contender). If it doesn't, there isn’t really any point to it.

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Old 05-07-2014, 06:15 PM
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Basically nobody knows. Emo have, strangely IMO at this late stage, not released any details of the version of Dirac that they will be using. All you can do at this stage is to google Dirac and get a feel for how Dirac differs from XT32 in broad terms and then, frankly, guess which features Emo will have included. Dirac is usually found in processors costing many thousands of dollars, so one thing that we can be sure of is that the version in the $2,000 XMC-1 will be some form of 'Dirac Lite'. but which features will have been left out is anyone's guess right now. I would say with some confidence that the 'full' version of Dirac is going to be better than any version of Audyssey - but the question, at this price point, is how Emo-Dirac will compare with Audyssey XT32. IMO, for the XMC-1 to be a success, it will have to beat Audyssey for REQ (Dirac is really the only feature that the XMC-1 has that makes it a contender). If it doesn't, there isn’t really any point to it.

I think the Emo faithfuls will buy it and be happy with it if it works and is moderately better than the UMC family of processors. For it to have any significance outside of the already loyal fanbase, the Dirac implementation will have to surpass Audyssey (at least in perception - surpass can be a highly subjective word).
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Old 05-07-2014, 06:22 PM
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Basically nobody knows. Emo have, strangely IMO at this late stage, not released any details of the version of Dirac that they will be using. All you can do at this stage is to google Dirac and get a feel for how Dirac differs from XT32 in broad terms and then, frankly, guess which features Emo will have included. Dirac is usually found in processors costing many thousands of dollars, so one thing that we can be sure of is that the version in the $2,000 XMC-1 will be some form of 'Dirac Lite'. but which features will have been left out is anyone's guess right now. I would say with some confidence that the 'full' version of Dirac is going to be better than any version of Audyssey - but the question, at this price point, is how Emo-Dirac will compare with Audyssey XT32. IMO, for the XMC-1 to be a success, it will have to beat Audyssey for REQ (Dirac is really the only feature that the XMC-1 has that makes it a contender). If it doesn't, there isn’t really any point to it.

I think the Emo faithfuls will buy it and be happy with it if it works and is moderately better than the UMC family of processors. For it to have any significance outside of the already loyal fanbase, the Dirac implementation will have to surpass Audyssey (at least in perception - surpass can be a highly subjective word).

 

Agreed. Emovites will like the blue lights and the fact it visually matches all their other Emo gear. The rest of us will want to see some real benefits before going with a brand that hasn't exactly developed a stellar reputation with processors, so, as you suggest, it will likely come down to a straight contest between Emo-Dirac and XT32.  If Emo-Dirac can be reliably demonstrated (with measurements to back up any claims) that it is superior to XT32, then the XMC-1 will be worth consideration, so long as the buyer is not interested in leading edge tech or new developments in HT audio.  And, of course, it will need to be clear that it is working as described and expected and is of reasonable quality and reliability.

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Old 05-07-2014, 06:29 PM
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^^^ On that note, maybe we could put this thread into cold storage unless/until actual products are on users' hands. It's not like there's anything new to say that hasn't been said in 1200+ posts....

Stuart

 

Denon 4311 with XT32 and Audyssey Pro

Oppo 93 and 103

Panasonic VT50

Sherwood R-972 with its version of the Trinnov Optimizer

MiniDSP 10x10 HD

PSB Imagine T2, Center, and Surrounds (as of 5/2014); HSU ULS-15 subs (2)

 

The Audyssey FAQ Guide can be found here:

http://www.avsforum.com/...

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Old 05-07-2014, 07:20 PM
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When the first XMC-1 hits the street this thread should be locked. this thread is kind of entertaining in a slow motion car wreck kind of way.
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Old 05-08-2014, 02:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

^^^ On that note, maybe we could put this thread into cold storage unless/until actual products are on users' hands. It's not like there's anything new to say that hasn't been said in 1200+ posts....

 

IKWYM, but it's interesting chat (sometimes). The odd thing about the thread is that if you venture off topic, the self-appointed thread monitors get their panties in a bunch over it, but if you stay on topic, then of course there's not very much to say :)

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