Emotiva XMC-1 Pre/Pro - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 1235 Old 03-01-2014, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Bluescale View Post

I don't get why people think the HDMI 2.0 announcement was a delay tactics. Companies don't generally make up lies that they have to publicly admit to to weeks later. It's not logical. It's easy to hang out on this forum and tell ourselves stories about the motives of the people working at Emotiva. Take a moment and ask yourself: "Why would a reasonable, rational, decent person act this way?" The answer is probably much less malicious than making up lies that buy you very little time, and soil your already sullied reputation.

eeeww, errrr ,umm well hmmm , maybe cause this has been going on for 5yrs rolleyes.gif
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post #182 of 1235 Old 03-01-2014, 12:20 PM
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That may well be but the (UN)intended consequence was that not only did it buy time, but it once again got people talking about it as the announcement travelled through the Interlink.

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post #183 of 1235 Old 03-01-2014, 12:24 PM
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Hence the moniker that all press is good press biggrin.gif I am sure I am not alone when I say , it would be nice to just get a straight answer even its an IDK. Of course I am guilty also of having the I WANT IT NOW syndrome tongue.gif I think most of us are just venting our frustration and where better than the interweb.
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post #184 of 1235 Old 03-01-2014, 12:27 PM
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eeeww, errrr ,umm well hmmm , maybe cause this has been going on for 5yrs rolleyes.gif

I agree they've been blundering over this for the past 5 years, and before that they blundered over the UMC-1 and the LMC-1, and to a lesser degree even the UMC-200. It's looks more like incompetence than malice.
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post #185 of 1235 Old 03-01-2014, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Bluescale View Post


I don't get why people think the HDMI 2.0 announcement was a delay tactics. Companies don't generally make up lies that they have to publicly admit to to weeks later. It's not logical. It's easy to hang out on this forum and tell ourselves stories about the motives of the people working at Emotiva. Take a moment and ask yourself: "Why would a reasonable, rational, decent person act this way?" The answer is probably much less malicious than making up lies that buy you very little time, and soil your already sullied reputation.


Ask yourself one question...do you really think the XMC-1 would have been ready to ship on the Feb 14th date if they had not made any last minute changes and stayed with the planned HDMI boards?

Of course not! 

Bottom line is, this thing was not going to ready to ship by the date that Dan had proclaimed for the past six months so they needed some way of being able to delay if further.  I, like a lot of people, really like their amps but this steady stream of misinformation on this unit is beginning to sound like it is coming from a politician.  I think the press they are getting over this is doing Emotiva more harm than good.

I for one was prepared to buy this unit the day it was available but given the circus that this has become, I will be waiting for at least a few months until this is a proven unit as I do not want to be a Beta tester.

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post #186 of 1235 Old 03-01-2014, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Bluescale View Post

I don't get why people think the HDMI 2.0 announcement was a delay tactics.
Because each announcement is an excuse for a delay. Changing to HDMI 2.0, so it's delayed from February till March. Going to be HDMI 1.4 after all, so it's delayed from March to April. Cancelling the excuse for the delay (HDMI 2.0) should have likewise meant a cancellation of the delay, not an excuse for a further delay.
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Take a moment and ask yourself: "Why would a reasonable, rational, decent person act this way?"
I'll admit I didn't start from that premise (let alone those adjectives).
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post #187 of 1235 Old 03-01-2014, 04:53 PM
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I think the press they are getting over this is doing Emotiva more harm than good.

That's my point. Emotiva's continuous fumbling isn't some deliberate master plan. They're making mistakes. I don't know if believing these missteps are intentional is giving them too much credit or too little. Either way, it doesn't seem likely to me.
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post #188 of 1235 Old 03-01-2014, 05:11 PM
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Because each announcement is an excuse for a delay. Changing to HDMI 2.0, so it's delayed from February till March. Going to be HDMI 1.4 after all, so it's delayed from March to April. Cancelling the excuse for the delay (HDMI 2.0) should have likewise meant a cancellation of the delay, not an excuse for a further delay.

They're still shipping with a new HDMI board than previously planned (it's a 1.4b that was released in January, as opposed to the originally spec'd 1.4 board). Once the decision was made to change boards, the delay was going to happen, regardless of what version HDMI board they drop in.

I'll just point out that no reason's been given for the April date listed on the micro site. There hasn't even been a confirmation that the March date listen in the email has slipped. Frankly, until Emotiva starts shipping these units, anyone who takes anything they say about dates at face value is batty.
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I'll admit I didn't start from that premise (let alone those adjectives).

Personally, I always try to start from that premise. Most people are reasonable, rational and decent, regardless of how confusing their actions might seem on the surface.
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post #189 of 1235 Old 03-01-2014, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Bluescale View Post

Once the decision was made to change boards, the delay was going to happen, regardless of what version HDMI board they drop in.
The decision to change boards was announced on January 30th, just 2 weeks before ship date, indicating they were never going to ship by that date. Not like they had the unit ready, were doing final QC in the last couple weeks, but decided last minute to rip out the old boards and replace them with new ones. What allowed changing the boards was that the unit hadn't been manufactured yet. It was never going to ship by February 14th, even with the old board.

Since they knew which new HDMI board they were going to use, there is no reason for them to have announced that it was HDMI 2.0. The manufacturer of that board never ever mentioned HDMI 2.0 (or any of its attributes) anywhere in their literature. It was a complete fabrication by Emotiva.
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Personally, I always try to start from that premise.
I do too, unless there is prior reason for my skepticism (see above).
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post #190 of 1235 Old 03-01-2014, 07:12 PM
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I still think my theory that Laughman saw his shadow as the most reasonable explanation for the delay.

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post #191 of 1235 Old 03-01-2014, 07:36 PM
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Andrew Robinson has closed down a thread over there , I guess the water is getting too hot LOL. Seriously , it seems they cant handle criticism no matter how minute. Way to go Andrew.
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post #192 of 1235 Old 03-03-2014, 12:00 PM
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Anyone one on here ordering the XMC-1? I am so tempted to get the XMC-1. I am weighing my options. I currently have a Denon 4520, if I can find a new owner for my Denon, I may just order it.
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post #193 of 1235 Old 03-03-2014, 12:57 PM
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I sure there are a bunch of folks waiting to order the XMC-1. Problem with the XMC-1 is you cannot order it.
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post #194 of 1235 Old 03-03-2014, 05:33 PM
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I sure there are a bunch of folks waiting to order the XMC-1. Problem with the XMC-1 is you cannot order it.

Nope.  There is a waiting list from 2011 or so that will be filled first, when the thing is finally released(April).  That may well exhaust the first shipment of units from China.  I'm not sure if there is still a pre-order list, or some other thing, but either way, I doubt there will be any left over, you'll have to wait for the second shipment which could take you into May/June.  By then, a track record of sorts of the XMC will exist.

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post #195 of 1235 Old 03-03-2014, 05:51 PM
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Anyone one on here ordering the XMC-1? I am so tempted to get the XMC-1. I am weighing my options. I currently have a Denon 4520, if I can find a new owner for my Denon, I may just order it.

I would seriously consider waiting till the XMC-1 has been out for a few months before considering selling your 4520. I have the 4311 and I'm waiting to see how well the XMC-1 does in the wild before I consider buying one. Then if I order one I won't be selling my 4311 until I have a chance to see and hear the XMC-1 in my system.

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post #196 of 1235 Old 03-03-2014, 05:52 PM
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Nope.  There is a waiting list from 2011 or so that will be filled first, when the thing is finally released(April).  That may well exhaust the first shipment of units from China.  I'm not sure if there is still a pre-order list, or some other thing, but either way, I doubt there will be any left over, you'll have to wait for the second shipment which could take you into May/June.  By then, a track record of sorts of the XMC will exist.

It is being assembled in Franklin TN USA, unless you mean the bits and pieces that will most likely be sourced from Asia.
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post #197 of 1235 Old 03-03-2014, 05:59 PM
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I would seriously consider waiting till the XMC-1 has been out for a few months before considering selling your 4520. I have the 4311 and I'm waiting to see how well the XMC-1 does in the wild before I consider buying one. Then if I order one I won't be selling my 4311 until I have a chance to see and hear the XMC-1 in my system.

Bill

If it ever gets here I think it will be great. They have had plenty of test runs now and they must have gained some experience from acquiring sherbourn plus working with the pro's at dirac I would hope something will rub off on them biggrin.gif
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post #198 of 1235 Old 03-03-2014, 06:04 PM
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If it ever gets here I think it will be great. They have had plenty of test runs now and they must have gained some experience from acquiring sherbourn plus working with the pro's at dirac I would hope something will rub off on them biggrin.gif

I think the XMC-1 has the potential to be great. But I don't think Emotiva's acquisition of Sherbourn will help as the XMC-1 is a totally different processor than any Sherbourn processor.

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post #199 of 1235 Old 03-03-2014, 06:10 PM
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I was just thinking that maybe they acquired some personal in the acquisition .
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post #200 of 1235 Old 03-03-2014, 06:37 PM
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It is being assembled in Franklin TN USA, unless you mean the bits and pieces that will most likely be sourced from Asia.

True, I posted without thinking, the various parts will be coming from China among other places and take time to build and ship.  On the thought that Emotiva may have gotten some of Sherbourn's talent, I suspect the truly talented would have seen the handwriting on the wall long before Sherbourn was floundering.  Nobody wants to go down with a sinking ship and hope that a buyer will come along to buy Sherbourn and then pick and choose among the survivors for employees as it would be a pretty low percentage opportunity.  Hard to say, though, with Sherbourn, TacT, and Carver's relationships with Emotiva all ending badly, there may have been a survivor or two.

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post #201 of 1235 Old 03-04-2014, 01:08 AM
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I was just thinking that maybe they acquired some personal in the acquisition .

I highly doubt anyone came over from Sherbourn to work for Emotiva. If they did and if they were highly skilled I would think Emotiva would have announced that as they did with their relationships with Dr. Boz (TacT) and Bob Carver. But unfortunately those two relationships didn't work out very well.

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True, I posted without thinking, the various parts will be coming from China among other places and take time to build and ship. On the thought that Emotiva may have gotten some of Sherbourn's talent, I suspect the truly talented would have seen the handwriting on the wall long before Sherbourn was floundering. Nobody wants to go down with a sinking ship and hope that a buyer will come along to buy Sherbourn and then pick and choose among the survivors for employees as it would be a pretty low percentage opportunity. Hard to say, though, with Sherbourn, TacT, and Carver's relationships with Emotiva all ending badly, there may have been a survivor or two.

My question is how many companies can Emotiva buy and how many failed relationships can take place before it starts to seriously effect their financial situation.

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post #202 of 1235 Old 03-04-2014, 04:38 AM
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Anyone one on here ordering the XMC-1? I am so tempted to get the XMC-1. I am weighing my options. I currently have a Denon 4520, if I can find a new owner for my Denon, I may just order it.

I would seriously consider waiting till the XMC-1 has been out for a few months before considering selling your 4520. I have the 4311 and I'm waiting to see how well the XMC-1 does in the wild before I consider buying one. Then if I order one I won't be selling my 4311 until I have a chance to see and hear the XMC-1 in my system.

Bill

 

Wise move, Bill.

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post #203 of 1235 Old 03-04-2014, 04:50 AM
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I would seriously consider waiting till the XMC-1 has been out for a few months before considering selling your 4520. I have the 4311 and I'm waiting to see how well the XMC-1 does in the wild before I consider buying one. Then if I order one I won't be selling my 4311 until I have a chance to see and hear the XMC-1 in my system.

Bill

If it ever gets here I think it will be great. They have had plenty of test runs now and they must have gained some experience from acquiring sherbourn plus working with the pro's at dirac I would hope something will rub off on them biggrin.gif

 

Yes, I would hope so too. The problem is Emotiva have massively damaged their credibility in processors when they released the much-delayed UMC-1, which was still fraught with problems (some of them unfixable) months after the (delayed) launch. By all accounts the UMC-200 is much better, but was still released with significant problems which had to be left to customers to discover. During that process, Emo seemed to show that they did not really, fully understand the product they had "designed". 

 

Now, people are very, very cautious about a) taking anything Emo says about processors at face value and b) whether the XMC-1 will in reality be a fully working processor from Day One.  Laufman isn't helping the situation by releasing half-baked information saying, very close to launch, that they are delaying the February 14th launch so they can "incorporate HDMI 2.0" and then announcing that this isn’t actually the case and the unit will be released as a HDMI 1.4b unit, but the launch date is still delayed anyway. To many this makes no sense on various levels and further adds to the feeling that either Emo don't really know what they are doing (did they really think they could incorporate HDMI 2.0 at this stage of development?) or, worse maybe, that they do know what they are doing and what they are doing is, well, not to put too fine a point on it, being economical with the truth and seeking a handy excuse for yet another delay.

 

The end result is that anyone who is not a dyed-in-the-wool Emo fanboy is taking the sensible decision to wait until the XMC-1 is 'in the wild' and has been examined fully by credible end-users (such as markus767 here on AVS). Speaking from a professional marketing POV, this is a good example of an almost perfect textbook way NOT to launch a new product. It will take Emo some time to get over their credibility problems wrt to processors, if ever.

 

So like many others, my own position is 'wait and see'. I am very interested in Dirac as implemented in the XMC-1 and I do hope they have got it right this time. But there is no way, no way at all, that I would want to buy this unit until I had seen it credibly reviewed and until it had been in the hands of experienced end-users for some considerable time.

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post #204 of 1235 Old 03-04-2014, 05:54 AM
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^^^^^ Very well said Keith, I agree with your thoughts 100%.

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post #205 of 1235 Old 03-04-2014, 06:03 AM
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^^^^^ Very well said Keith, I agree with your thoughts 100%.

Bill

 

Thanks Bill. I think you and I are on the same page here - we both want the XMC-1 to be a success, but we both have our reasonable doubts.

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post #206 of 1235 Old 03-04-2014, 07:01 AM
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Just for old times sake, here are a couple of articles about the Sherbourn/Emotiva acquisition.

http://www.technologyintegrator.net/article/sherbourn-technologies-acquired-jade-design-25012899/1

http://www.residentialsystems.com/news/0022/catching-up-with-sherbourns-reinvention/80814

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post #207 of 1235 Old 03-04-2014, 07:13 AM
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Keith pretty much nailed it on the head. This thing could be a huge success, but a crappy launch will have the product sputtering at the gates.

If a delayed, sputtering launch will then be fraught with problems, the product is in real danger of failing.
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post #208 of 1235 Old 03-04-2014, 07:13 AM
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Just for old times sake, here are a couple of articles about the Sherbourn/Emotiva acquisition.

http://www.technologyintegrator.net/article/sherbourn-technologies-acquired-jade-design-25012899/1

http://www.residentialsystems.com/news/0022/catching-up-with-sherbourns-reinvention/80814

 

I had to smile at this quote from one of the articles:

 

"Laufman has a sort of tortoise and the hare business approach. “We’re not in a hurry...""

 

They certainly aren't in a hurry to get their processors to market ;)

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post #209 of 1235 Old 03-04-2014, 08:40 AM
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I still think my theory that Laughman saw his shadow as the most reasonable explanation for the delay.

Fits in well with the "Groundhog Day" theme of repeated delay announcements. smile.gif
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post #210 of 1235 Old 03-04-2014, 11:10 AM
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Fits in well with the "Groundhog Day" theme of repeated delay announcements. smile.gif

There's one other factor that nobody's talked about: Dirac may just be very hard to implement in a stable, downloadable to DSP AVR form, for a multichannel setup, and that may be contributing to the delays. I wonder if it's not so coincidental that Carl Huff's DL2/3 have also run into serious delays as a dedicated Dirac run-time box. That's aside from the usual Emotiva issues with delivery.

All I know is that it's weird that there's almost no real information on the XMC-1 site, beyond an outline of the units capabilities, the pretty blue OLED and silver/black images, and the born-in-the USA marketing.

Speculation aside, unfortunately the sane position is to think of the XMC-1 as vaporware until it hits the wild, and non-true believers get to test it out.

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Oppo 93 and 103

Panasonic VT50

Sherwood R-972 with its version of the Trinnov Optimizer

MiniDSP 10x10 HD

PSB Imagine T2, Center, and Surrounds (as of 5/2014); HSU ULS-15 subs (2)

 

The Audyssey FAQ Guide can be found here:

http://www.avsforum.com/...

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