Denon AVR-X2000 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 29 Old 02-08-2014, 10:24 AM - Thread Starter
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As a AV dealer/integrator I have a little experience however I seem to be having an issue getting a straight answer on this.

I have a customer that purchased a AVR-X2000. I originally installed his audio video throughout the house in 2008 and sold and installed Denon at that time so when he bought a new one he bought another Denon (poor guy).

So what will play in zone 2 and what will not? That is the question. I studied the manuals and I'm not claiming it's not in there however if it is I'm either not finding it or it's written in such a way that I don't understand it. Forget calling Denon and getting a straight answer, at least that's been my experience.

I stopped selling Denon products several years ago due to the poor customer service to the custom integrator world and the unreliable products. Sure everyone has their experiences and opinions, I'm only basing mine on thousands of dollars of lost time and revenue, Denon and Denon's rep for the Texas area's complete unwillingness to assist in a problem they created and acknowledged. Their response? "You can buy universal power supplies from Radio Shack that will repair those". (Related to their pos Denon IPod docks at the time)

Nevertheless, I'm stuck with this one Denon receiver in this customers house for another three to six months and I'm trying to understand what will work through zone 2.

In three to six months I'm going to replace the receiver so fortunately I don't have to deal with it very long. I've agreed to purchase the Denon receiver from him at that time so I can photograph it being trashed for an article on my blog (what's a few hundred more dollars after getting burned by their products so badly before right?).

Any assistance answering this question will be greatly appreciated!

Thank you!
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post #2 of 29 Old 02-08-2014, 12:16 PM
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Indeed, Denon's current support of the Zone 2 analog outputs is deficient.

Analog inputs can always be forwarded to Zone 2.

Digital inputs are forwarded to Zone 2 when "all zone stereo" is selected. See page 98 of the X2000's owner's manual where this is implied: "You can play back music in another room (ZONE2) simultaneously that is played back in MAIN ZONE."

Otherwise, they aren't. See page 180 of the owner's manual: "You cannot play back the audio for digital signals that are input from the HDMI connector or digital connectors (OPTICAL/COAXIAL). Make an analog connection instead."

Page 187 adds "In ZONE2, you can select iPod/USB, TUNER, NETWORK or an input source with an analog audio input connector."

The X3000 and X4000 models add another feature: they can forward PCM stereo signals to Zone 2's analog outputs. E.g. see page 173 of the X3000's owner's manual where it says "PCM : The HDMI audio signal is converted to PCM format so you can listen to HDMI sound from the ZONE2 pre out or ZONE2 assigned speakers."

On page 189, the X3000's manual adds
"• In ZONE2, the audio can be played back when signals input from digital terminals (OPTICAL/ COAXIAL) are in 2ch PCM format.
• In ZONE2, the audio can be played back when signals input from the HDMI terminal are in 2ch PCM format. To play back the audio in ZONE2 irrespective of the input signal format, set the “HDMI Audio” setting in the menu to “PCM”. Depending on the played back device, the audio may not be played back even with this setting. In that case, set the audio format to “PCM” on the played back device."

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post #3 of 29 Old 02-08-2014, 12:30 PM
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Why "poor guy" soley based on your own personal experience? The X2000 is an an excellent quality AVR and a simple DAC will allow your customer to pass external source digital audio to Zone 2. And case in point that well over 95% of all AVRs on the market past or present cannot pass digital audio to Zone 2 with D&M models making up the majority of the ones that can. smile.gif

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post #4 of 29 Old 02-08-2014, 07:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Selden, thank you so much for your assistance and taking your time with my question. All functionality and limitations of Zone 2 should be grouped together in a 225 page manual instead of bits and pieces here and there throughout the manual. Denon cost my company approx. $6K in return trips, replacement parts, and labor due to their poorly designed electronics and lack of honest customer support when the Denon ipod docks were introduced. They decided assisting my company with their issues was too costly for them so they don't have my support anymore. However I could have rectified the situation by purchasing universal power supplies from Radio Shack as per the Denon rep in my area. So you can see where my "personal experience" is derived from. I offered to resolve the matter by settling for $1200 (my wholesale cost of the equipment) but they adamantly refused.

 

The point is I preferred not to spend any more time than necessary to learn the 225 pages of a receiver that I'm only going to remove and throw in the trash in a few months or so anyway. I have successfully replaced ALL of  my other customer's receivers since then so this is the only one I have to deal with.

 

With that said I greatly appreciate your time in assisting me in understanding what this one will do and what it will not regarding zone 2. It's not that much different than other brands at this price point and actually there are a few things I've been impressed with while setting it up for these folks. Overall though its simply a Denon and I personally cannot commit the injustice of selling these to my customers.

 

As I stated in my original post there is no doubt there are plenty of integrators/installers that are satisfied with this brand and I probably would be too if I didn't know any better.

 

Thanks again very much, you've answered my questions with class!

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post #5 of 29 Old 02-10-2014, 01:56 PM
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You're very welcome.

Would you mind mentioning what equipment you recommend as an alternative?
(I'm at the point where I'm thinking about maybe upgrading my current A/V configuration later this year.)

The Denon and (Japanese) Marantz documentation has always been abysmal. Essentially, you have to know what they mean before you can understand what they've written frown.gif I've had Marantz equipment since 2000, though, so I've gotten used to it. One of the other regular posters on AVS, batpig, has made available his own Denon-to-English dictionary.

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post #6 of 29 Old 02-10-2014, 04:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Selden,

 

I changed everything over to Pioneer in 2010, replaced all customer receivers over to Pioneer and threw all of the Denon products in the trash, with the exception of a five gallon bucket full of Denon iPod docks.

 

I currently primarily use the Pioneer VSX-1123 or above. Pioneer has been flawlessly reliable, their iPad/iPhone app is awesome and free to download. Software/Firmware is fast and responsive and mostly bug free. The price points vs functionality are exceptional and less expensive than Denon. Far exceeds the menu system of Yamaha, don't have first hand experience with Marantz.

 

In my opinion dealers that are selling Denon to their customers are providing an inferior product with a higher cost. Perhaps some sell them for higher margins, I've not looked in a while, however, DOA's, software bugs, sub standard HDMI output capabilities, and lack of customer support to the integrator market far exceeds the small amount of potential extra margins.

 

Consider this a review...DENON S---S! (fill in the blanks but so do vacuum cleaners) I would consider not writing Denon reviews as soon as this major corporation returns the $1200 dollars they essentially stole from me for the five gallon bucket of pos Denon Docks. Speaks volumes to what a sorry group of business men. Wonder how may receivers I've sold since they ripped me off. $1200 would have been chicken feed.

 

Thanks again sir!

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post #7 of 29 Old 02-11-2014, 04:32 AM
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Do you provide room audio calibration services? (REW, OmniMic or a professional equivalent?)

My understanding is that Pioneer's MCACC doesn't EQ the subwoofer channel, except, perhaps, in their highest level models. Do you recommend any particular external subwoofer EQ, or is my understanding mistaken?

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post #8 of 29 Old 03-15-2014, 08:14 PM
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Need some advice on an avr. Denon x2000 or a pioneer 1223k? Can get both for about the same price.

Denon x2000
Emptek E55Ti
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post #9 of 29 Old 04-02-2014, 02:21 PM
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Is there an HDMI device that will allow for streaming local media?
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post #10 of 29 Old 04-02-2014, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leedar View Post

Is there an HDMI device that will allow for streaming local media?

You'll have to define what you mean by "streaming local media". Blu-ray players which support DLNA probably qualify. Another generic answer would be an HTPC (Home Theater Personal Computer) which has an HDMI output, e.g. a Raspberry Pi running XBMC. Or just about any modern laptop computer.

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post #11 of 29 Old 04-02-2014, 06:13 PM
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Understood. I would like the ability play music and movies from smartphone and/or other devices without the dependence of the Denon app. I own a ps3 that supports dnla and a ps4 that doesn't. I am depending on the ps4 for Netflix and blu-ray but it does not support dnla. My AV installer is strongly recommending the Denon. I just want to make a strong choice. Thx
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post #12 of 29 Old 04-02-2014, 06:18 PM
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There are plenty of DLNA android apps available that can stream to a networking AVR like the X2000 and an iphone can use Airplay.

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post #13 of 29 Old 04-07-2014, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

There are plenty of DLNA android apps available that can stream to a networking AVR like the X2000 and an iphone can use Airplay.

 

The problem Im having is that im unable to stream Video via DLNA on the X2000. Anyone know how?

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post #14 of 29 Old 04-07-2014, 05:58 PM
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^^
You can use a Chromecast or AppleTV.

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post #15 of 29 Old 04-07-2014, 06:10 PM
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Even for streaming local media? Stored video and audio files? Sweeet
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post #16 of 29 Old 04-23-2014, 07:46 AM
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Now that my small home theater is now complete, I need some assistance regarding the x2000. With the understanding that Bluetooth and wireless is not packaged in, are there any options that would add these features. I would really like to stream music via Bluetooth from an android device or movies via dnla.Chromecast has been mentioned but does it allow you to access local media (mp3s, digital video, etc.) through the x2000 rereceiver. Any and all help is appreciated.
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post #17 of 29 Old 04-23-2014, 04:36 PM
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^^
There are numerous 3rd party Bluetooth adapters as well as wireless routers that can be used in bridge mode. Also numerous DLNA apps to stream audio and video so likely no need for a Bluetooth adapter at all.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1465528/the-official-2013-denon-e-series-x-series-avr-model-owners-thread-faq/0_100#user_E5

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1465528/the-official-2013-denon-e-series-x-series-avr-model-owners-thread-faq/0_100#user_G2

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post #18 of 29 Old 04-23-2014, 04:42 PM
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Awesome. I will search the play store for apps. Thank you for your input JD!
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post #19 of 29 Old 04-24-2014, 11:55 AM
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Bubble upnp works like a dream with this receiver
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post #20 of 29 Old 04-26-2014, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
You can use a Chromecast or AppleTV.

 

I'd like to understand using Chromecast... I can connect it to one of the HDMI inputs of the AVR and the picture is displayed on the TV and sound i can output via the AVR? For example like connecting an Xbox to the AVR.

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post #21 of 29 Old 04-26-2014, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myles007 View Post

I'd like to understand using Chromecast... I can connect it to one of the HDMI inputs of the AVR and the picture is displayed on the TV and sound i can output via the AVR? For example like connecting an Xbox to the AVR.

Never used an Xbox, but I have a Chromecast plugged into my AVR. Works just the same as another HDMI device. Plug it in and select the input.
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post #22 of 29 Old 04-26-2014, 10:57 AM
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^^

Wow, i am impressed. Is Chromecast capable of outputting 7.1 DTS Master Audio?

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post #23 of 29 Old 04-26-2014, 06:39 PM
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No idea. I use it primarily to watch old (mostly mono) Criterion Collection films on Hulu Plus and my media library on Plex, which transcodes the source to whatever works.
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post #24 of 29 Old 05-05-2014, 08:31 PM
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Is it possible to listen to music from the iPod/USB input while watching video from the CBL/SAT input, both in the Main Zone?

When I switch to iPod/USB using the remote, the picture switches to a blank screen. Is there any way to keep the picture showing the cable signal while the audio plays from the iPod?
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post #25 of 29 Old 05-05-2014, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgonsalv View Post

Is it possible to listen to music from the iPod/USB input while watching video from the CBL/SAT input, both in the Main Zone?

When I switch to iPod/USB using the remote, the picture switches to a blank screen. Is there any way to keep the picture showing the cable signal while the audio plays from the iPod?

Hi rgonsalv, while listen to music (USB input) and with the cable box (CBL/SAT input) on, press the "Option" button, select "Video Select" to turn on Source CBL/SAT.
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post #26 of 29 Old 05-10-2014, 06:04 PM
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JChin,

Thanks for you answer. That worked perfectly!

And it was a "one time" setup. So now hitting USB/iPod always shows the video from CBL/SAT. Cool!

Thanks again,

- Rob
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post #27 of 29 Old 05-11-2014, 04:28 AM
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There is a dedicated thread just for the 2013 Denon "X" series models with helpful information provided in posts #3-6.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1465528/the-official-2013-denon-e-series-x-series-avr-model-owners-thread-faq/0_100#post_23134210

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post #28 of 29 Old 05-23-2014, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Indeed, Denon's current support of the Zone 2 analog outputs is deficient.

Analog inputs can always be forwarded to Zone 2.

Digital inputs are forwarded to Zone 2 when "all zone stereo" is selected. See page 98 of the X2000's owner's manual where this is implied: "You can play back music in another room (ZONE2) simultaneously that is played back in MAIN ZONE."

Otherwise, they aren't. See page 180 of the owner's manual: "You cannot play back the audio for digital signals that are input from the HDMI connector or digital connectors (OPTICAL/COAXIAL). Make an analog connection instead."

Page 187 adds "In ZONE2, you can select iPod/USB, TUNER, NETWORK or an input source with an analog audio input connector."

The X3000 and X4000 models add another feature: they can forward PCM stereo signals to Zone 2's analog outputs. E.g. see page 173 of the X3000's owner's manual where it says "PCM : The HDMI audio signal is converted to PCM format so you can listen to HDMI sound from the ZONE2 pre out or ZONE2 assigned speakers."

On page 189, the X3000's manual adds
"• In ZONE2, the audio can be played back when signals input from digital terminals (OPTICAL/ COAXIAL) are in 2ch PCM format.
• In ZONE2, the audio can be played back when signals input from the HDMI terminal are in 2ch PCM format. To play back the audio in ZONE2 irrespective of the input signal format, set the “HDMI Audio” setting in the menu to “PCM”. Depending on the played back device, the audio may not be played back even with this setting. In that case, set the audio format to “PCM” on the played back device."


Hi Selden,

 

Can you help me answer a few questions about the X2000. I'm interested in setting a 5.1 in my living room and using the remaining 2 channels for the in-ceiling speakers in my kitchen for music. Your explanation above is very intense for me to understand since I'm very new at this.

 

Using the X2000, can I watch a movie in my living room using the 5.1 and while my significant other use the remaining speakers in the kitchen to listen to her internet radio, FM/AM radio, Pandora and so on. We rarely use Airplay and most of the time, we listen to the internet radio for music. Occasionally, we listen to CD also.

 

Thank you

BTU37 

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post #29 of 29 Old 05-23-2014, 05:30 PM
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^^

The above and much more is discussed in the 2013 Denon E/X series thread to include the following info I posted on Zone 2 ...

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1465528/the-official-2013-denon-e-series-x-series-avr-model-owners-thread-faq/0_100#user_M

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