MIT Z Duplex Receptacle - Pretty Amazing! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 02-09-2014, 11:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Had a chance to try out the 15A less expensive MIT Z Duplex receptacle ($150) and I'm pretty amazed. The receptacle is Hubbell medical grade, but with an attached parallel filter. Three separate filters to be precise, each tuned to a different frequency and all potted in a tiny plastic box which is attached to the back of the Hubbell.

As a Goldmund fan, I've been using MIT products for nearly 15 years now. Parallel filtering does not current limit, so I plug my amps in as well.

My observations:

- Noise floor dropped significantly.
- Bass became more controlled.
- Soundstage gained a bit of width, depth, and holography.

Consider me very impressed.
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post #2 of 20 Old 02-10-2014, 11:08 AM
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could you explain to me how a power outlet can cause the sound stage to gain holography?

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post #3 of 20 Old 02-10-2014, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

could you explain to me how a power outlet can cause the sound stage to gain holography?

The MIT filters work at different frequencies. I believe one of them even as low as 1kHz. Filtering out line pollution drops the noise floor a bit. The actual sound is now cleaner and has the same effect as being more focused. This is what a holographic effect is all about. You can better pick out the individual instruments and where they were positioned during the recording session. It's very audible in high quality acoustic recordings.

You can actually buy a speaker which connects directly to your power line and you can hear how noisy it is. Audio Prism makes one. I believe Belkin has a cheap one as well. This is a good video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FRDw1XWNcU
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post #4 of 20 Old 02-10-2014, 12:02 PM
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Lol....i love this guy.....makes me lough with every post of his i come across.

Good luck peddling that nonsense.

I don't need snobs to tell me how to think, thank you!
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post #5 of 20 Old 02-10-2014, 12:56 PM
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I actually had a chance to plug this unit into itself and caused the "holographic" image from Star Wars to appear on my screen. I BELIEVE!!!!!
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post #6 of 20 Old 02-10-2014, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by NagysAudio View Post

The MIT filters work at different frequencies. I believe one of them even as low as 1kHz. Filtering out line pollution drops the noise floor a bit. The actual sound is now cleaner and has the same effect as being more focused. This is what a holographic effect is all about. You can better pick out the individual instruments and where they were positioned during the recording session. It's very audible in high quality acoustic recordings.

You can actually buy a speaker which connects directly to your power line and you can hear how noisy it is. Audio Prism makes one. I believe Belkin has a cheap one as well. This is a good video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FRDw1XWNcU

I thought that's what bypass and decoupling capacitors did? Shouldn't the noise be measured from the power supply and not the AC outlet? Giving you the benefit of the doubt that these filters do what they claim, do you have any objective evidence whatsoever that said approach outperforms a properly designed low-noise power supply? And more importantly, does so at equal or lower cost? When respected reviewers with very expensive equipment and well trained ears fail to hear the difference between El and torroidal power supplies in well-engineered units (e.g. Anthem MRX-5x0 vs MRX-7x0), I struggle to imagine there is that much more noise there to mitigate beyond a well-designed amp or receiver. While you are at it, please unambiguously define the following terms and how to quantify them: line pollution, cleaner, more focused, and holographic effect. Thanks!

"A wide screen just makes a bad film twice as bad. "
-Samuel Goldwyn

I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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post #7 of 20 Old 02-10-2014, 01:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dougri View Post

I thought that's what bypass and decoupling capacitors did? Shouldn't the noise be measured from the power supply and not the AC outlet? Giving you the benefit of the doubt that these filters do what they claim, do you have any objective evidence whatsoever that said approach outperforms a properly designed low-noise power supply? And more importantly, does so at equal or lower cost? When respected reviewers with very expensive equipment and well trained ears fail to hear the difference between El and torroidal power supplies in well-engineered units (e.g. Anthem MRX-5x0 vs MRX-7x0), I struggle to imagine there is that much more noise there to mitigate beyond a well-designed amp or receiver. While you are at it, please unambiguously define the following terms and how to quantify them: line pollution, cleaner, more focused, and holographic effect. Thanks!

Bypass/decoupling capacitors are very ineffective filters. Now yes, transformer does filter out a lot of noise, but definitely not everything.
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post #8 of 20 Old 02-10-2014, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NagysAudio View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dougri View Post

I thought that's what bypass and decoupling capacitors did? Shouldn't the noise be measured from the power supply and not the AC outlet? Giving you the benefit of the doubt that these filters do what they claim, do you have any objective evidence whatsoever that said approach outperforms a properly designed low-noise power supply? And more importantly, does so at equal or lower cost? When respected reviewers with very expensive equipment and well trained ears fail to hear the difference between El and torroidal power supplies in well-engineered units (e.g. Anthem MRX-5x0 vs MRX-7x0), I struggle to imagine there is that much more noise there to mitigate beyond a well-designed amp or receiver. While you are at it, please unambiguously define the following terms and how to quantify them: line pollution, cleaner, more focused, and holographic effect. Thanks!

Bypass/decoupling capacitors are very ineffective filters. Now yes, transformer does filter out a lot of noise, but definitely not everything.
Evidence please.

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post #9 of 20 Old 02-10-2014, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougri View Post


I thought that's what bypass and decoupling capacitors did? Shouldn't the noise be measured from the power supply and not the AC outlet? Giving you the benefit of the doubt that these filters do what they claim, do you have any objective evidence whatsoever that said approach outperforms a properly designed low-noise power supply? And more importantly, does so at equal or lower cost? When respected reviewers with very expensive equipment and well trained ears fail to hear the difference between El and torroidal power supplies in well-engineered units (e.g. Anthem MRX-5x0 vs MRX-7x0), I struggle to imagine there is that much more noise there to mitigate beyond a well-designed amp or receiver. While you are at it, please unambiguously define the following terms and how to quantify them: line pollution, cleaner, more focused, and holographic effect. Thanks!

to the OP with all due respect:

this explanation (above) is one I am more familiar with: it corresponds with what I was taught.

I am still struggling with how this makes something sound more holographic: being we have Science in the name of this forum, I do think we are entitled to a more scientific explanation

to me this is like a poster saying: this new amp blows me away: it means nothing

to other posters: please do not pile on: lets try to work this out in a rational way

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post #10 of 20 Old 02-10-2014, 02:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Evidence please.

Sorry, I don't do requests. When you ask for evidence on why a parallel capacitor makes for an ineffective filter, it leads me to believe that you are not familiar with what, or how resistors, capacitors, and inductors work in simple parallel and series networks. A school library would be a great place to start. There are many excellent books which cover the foundation in detail.
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post #11 of 20 Old 02-10-2014, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by NagysAudio View Post

Bypass/decoupling capacitors are very ineffective filters. Now yes, transformer does filter out a lot of noise, but definitely not everything.

Please also add to the list of needed unambiguous definitions: effective filter (in the context of AV applications).

I read some of the tech literature on the MIT website, but fail to find any measurements indicating the improvements are audible. Yes, the filtering occurs at audible frequencies, but does it make a difference? I can convince myself all day that my system sounds better when the wifi is off, but unless I define 'sounds better' and demonstrate that shielding a system's components from 2.4GHz interference results in an audible improvement by objective means, people would be justified in calling me a snake-oil salesman… the burden of proof here is not on those questioning the efficacy of such products, but rather on those selling them.

"A wide screen just makes a bad film twice as bad. "
-Samuel Goldwyn

I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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post #12 of 20 Old 02-10-2014, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dougri View Post

Please also add to the list of needed unambiguous definitions: effective filter (in the context of AV applications).

I read some of the tech literature on the MIT website, but fail to find any measurements indicating the improvements are audible. Yes, the filtering occurs at audible frequencies, but does it make a difference? I can convince myself all day that my system sounds better when the wifi is off, but unless I define 'sounds better' and demonstrate that shielding a system's components from 2.4GHz interference results in an audible improvement by objective means, people would be justified in calling me a snake-oil salesman… the burden of proof here is not on those questioning the efficacy of such products, but rather on those selling them.

The final proof should be your ears. If you don't like it, you don't buy it. It really is that simple.
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post #13 of 20 Old 02-10-2014, 02:36 PM
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The final proof should be your ears. If you don't like it, you don't buy it. It really is that simple.

As soon as you show me a way to eliminate confirmation bias wink.gif

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post #14 of 20 Old 02-10-2014, 02:46 PM
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to the OP with all due respect:

this explanation (above) is one I am more familiar with: it corresponds with what I was taught.

I am still struggling with how this makes something sound more holographic: being we have Science in the name of this forum, I do think we are entitled to a more scientific explanation

to me this is like a poster saying: this new amp blows me away: it means nothing

to other posters: please do not pile on: lets try to work this out in a rational way

There is lots of literature on the MIT site explaining how they employ parallel LCR filters in these products (including the patents). Myself, I am not questioning they do what they intend to do: reduce the power line noise. However, I would like to see what additional benefit (above and beyond a properly designed power supply) the product offers to the consumer of the AV… via objective measurements. This should be easy enough. I'm sure there is data on the magnitude and character of noise on typical AC circuits, as well as those that are dedicated to AV purposes. From there, I think it would be fairly straight forward to evaluate the effectiveness of the electronics in attenuating the noise across the audible frequencies, and finally the additional attenuation gained by the offered product. Why would MIT cables not produce such information if it is results in such drastic (audible) improvement?

"A wide screen just makes a bad film twice as bad. "
-Samuel Goldwyn

I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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post #15 of 20 Old 02-10-2014, 02:49 PM - Thread Starter
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As soon as you show me a way to eliminate confirmation bias wink.gif

Can't. It's your ears. Your bias. But you also have the power of the wallet. You try something, it makes no difference, or maybe makes things worse, you simply don't buy it. You shouldn't need someone to post some test (which probably is also biased) to prove something to you. Prove it to yourself and then you'll know.

I try a lot of components. When I find something I like. I'm inspired to share. Even if it happens to be my competitors. If there's something I don't like, I just move on. Isn't this the beauty of this hobby?
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post #16 of 20 Old 02-10-2014, 03:18 PM
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there is no place for insults here: if this continues you will be banned from the thread

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post #17 of 20 Old 02-10-2014, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by NagysAudio View Post

Can't. It's your ears. Your bias. But you also have the power of the wallet. You try something, it makes no difference, or maybe makes things worse, you simply don't buy it. You shouldn't need someone to post some test (which probably is also biased) to prove something to you. Prove it to yourself and then you'll know.

I try a lot of components. When I find something I like. I'm inspired to share. Even if it happens to be my competitors. If there's something I don't like, I just move on. Isn't this the beauty of this hobby?

I agree with you to some extent... trying out new stuff is a part of the fun of this hobby, and my ears have the final say. Having said that, time is precious and I prefer to try new things that will sound different... whether different is subjectively better or worse is where my ears come into play. While I admit I am susceptible to confirmation bias, I do not claim to have extraordinary hearing... I expect my ability to detect slight changes to loudness, pitch, phase, etc. is no better than a well-trained listener. If there is no objective evidence or plausible reasoning that a product produces a perceptible difference to a well trained listener, I have little interest trying it... too many other new things to try.

"A wide screen just makes a bad film twice as bad. "
-Samuel Goldwyn

I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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post #18 of 20 Old 02-10-2014, 04:16 PM
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I think that is why so many of us come to AVS: we seek to separate out the claims for products before we try them

When I post about a product, I always try to add..in my opinion only

but that is just my opinion smile.gif

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post #19 of 20 Old 02-10-2014, 08:11 PM
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Are the outlets UL listed?

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post #20 of 20 Old 02-10-2014, 09:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Are the outlets UL listed?

It's a stock Hubbell hospital grade receptacle. Pretty sure it's UL listed.
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