Pioneer SC-57: Main Digital Assy replacement or "How to lose a customer forever" - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 02-11-2014, 08:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi guys,

I am owner of a SC-57 since November 2011. I bought the unit brand new on ebay in California since the SC57 was not available in Canada.

The waranty was valid only in the US. I was aware of that.
The unit has been working perfectly until last week.
Now the unit is in an authorized and acknowledged Pioneer repair shop (here in Canada) because no sound is coming out of it.
They say it is the DIGITAL MAIN ASSY that needs to be replaced. It would cost me 750$ (500$ for the board plus labor).
I think it is just unacceptable that I should pay this amount of money to repair for a 2 and a half year old unit.
It's almost half the price I've paid for it. It's like I'm buying a car 25 000 $ and spend 10 000 $ to replace the engine after warranty.
It's insane.



Is there anything I can do (aside from saying to everybody on this thread that I truly regret this purchase) ?


PS I had a power surge protection and unit was in a well ventilated set up..
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post #2 of 20 Old 02-11-2014, 08:40 PM
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mmm... take it (send it) to an authorized pioneer repair shop IN THE STATES where YOU KNEW the warranty applies. Probably too obvious. And yes I have had pioneer equipment fail and had the repairs done in the states because it was .... you guess it... under warranty.
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post #3 of 20 Old 02-11-2014, 08:45 PM
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1. Warranty is over.
2. Warranty was only valid in the USA

I don't see any issue.

Ignorance is a choice
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post #4 of 20 Old 02-11-2014, 08:53 PM
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oops... I knew it should have been obvious... :-)
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post #5 of 20 Old 02-12-2014, 04:09 AM
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yes, the obvious smile.gif

complaining about a repair 6 months after the warranty expires rolleyes.gif

"It's like I'm buying a car 25 000 $ and spend 10 000 $ to replace the engine after warranty. It's insane."

tell that to the car mfg & dealer. I'm sure they'll be glad to do out-of-warranty repairs for free.

electronic components do sometimes fail, doesn't take a surge or overheating. parts like capacitors degrade over time and all it takes is one little component on the board and no sound...shops know that it's hugely labor, time & money intensive to do board-level diagnostics so board swaps are the norm.

Steve
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post #6 of 20 Old 02-12-2014, 06:01 AM
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Your warranty is probably never valid even in US. Elite receivers must be purchased from authorized dealers in order to get warranty service from Pioneer. And authorized dealers are forbidden to sell the Elite receivers online.
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post #7 of 20 Old 02-12-2014, 07:02 AM - Thread Starter
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ss9001 wrote

"parts like capacitors degrade over time"

If it had been 10 years I would understand.
But 2 years and a half is not very long.


ss9001 also wrote
"tell that to the car mfg & dealer. I'm sure they'll be glad to do out-of-warranty repairs for free."

I'm not saying that I don't want to pay for repair.
Don't get me wrong. I would pay 3000 $ for the engine out of warranty not 10000$.
I'm saying that it is way too expensive and that Pioneer should stand behind their products and admit that certain components are weak and eventually do a recall like the car manufacturer do.

Denis
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post #8 of 20 Old 02-12-2014, 07:43 AM
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good luck with that.

you have absolutely no proof of any form why something failed on the board.

if there were a mass issue with defective boards, there would be numerous postings in this forum from people experiencing this failure. and as far as I can remember, you are the 1st person in the SC-57, 55 threads to post this.

as far as Pioneer standing behind their product...let me tell you a story. the subject is Pioneer's x30 models of CRT based RPTV's, one of which I own & went through all this. in that model, there was some defect that showed up for most within the 1st yr and sometimes < 6 months. after a period of time, green lines would appear across the screen and gradually get worse. Pioneer could not determine what the root cause was. but they did provide a "fix" kit to dealers & shops which they felt would take care of the problem. it turned out to be temporary. but Pioneer promised owners that they would be taken care past warranty when they figured out why the problem occurred, why the 1st fix didn't work and what component was the culprit. it was a big thing, since these were $5000-7000 TV sets. from the time I bought the set and by the time it got a permanent fix, about 2.5 yrs went by. not only did Pioneer honor the warranty but the dealer came out again & did the permanent repair no charge to me. as it turned out, the problem was a run of defective color decoder chips from the chip mfg, not the board design. so all owners with open warranty repair cases with Pioneer and dealers got 3 new color boards. the reason it took so long was Pioneer couldn't consistently duplicate the problem and that was because it only effected the sets that had the "bad" chips. once they were able to duplicate & confirm, they came out with a warranty repair kit which solved the problem.

was the experience fun? no, but I knew Pioneer was standing behind it.

in your case, unlike Onkyo which had numerous HDMI board failures, there is no internet evidence of mass digital board failures. otherwise, the Pioneer threads would be full of them wink.gif just check Onkyo threads and you'll see what I mean.

to me it seems that you just got unlucky.

just because you had surge protection doesn't ensure anything. nor does "well ventilated". your definition of ventilation may be different than others. I've seen posts from owners who want to allow only an inch or so distance from the top to the next shelf or box it in. did you know yours has a fan on the left side, taking air from the left side and exhausting the top and right side? if the left side was pulling in hot air from other devices or very short distance from a cabinet side + closed doors, then maybe it wasn't as well ventilated as you might think.

my point is not to challenge your setup or understandably being unhappy. my point is that Pioneer is no worse than others and a heck of a lot better than some, i'e. Onkyo on repair track record, reliability and support. just ask Onkyo owners in their threads how they feel about Onkyo support with failed HDMI boards.

over many years, Pioneer AVR's have an excellent track record on reliability & stability. throughout their various designs. I've owned Pioneer receivrs since the mid-80's and never had one problem with them, other than one time lightning surge damage which is obviously not Pioneer's fault.

and it was also on surge protection - a $600 Monster Cable power center.

if you want to "never buy a Pioneer again", that's your choice but based on your evidence, I can see no reason why you think Pioneer should be on the hook for it.

to use your car analogy, I wouldn't expect my dealer to pay for an $800 repair once the car is out of warranty and neither should you. unless it's a proved recall situation, which in this case, there's no evidence to support that.

be disgruntled but reasonable Pioneer owners on this forum are not going to take your side smile.gif

Steve
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post #9 of 20 Old 02-12-2014, 08:38 AM
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I don't see an issue with Pioneer's position. Just another thought, I'm not sure what that board is responsible for, but if it's the actual class D amps, it might be worth buying an external amp and using the preouts.
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post #10 of 20 Old 02-12-2014, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't want people on my side.
I wanted advice or ideas from people who might have been in this situation before.
I'm not trying to prove anything here.
Just telling the facts and giving my opinion.
Again, I said that I want to pay. That's ok. But not this price. It's not about the money. It is about principle.
Talking about story, here we make kitchen and we garanty our product 10 years. On everything. 15 millions business per year.
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post #11 of 20 Old 02-12-2014, 09:07 AM
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If you want advice: buy something else and move on. I would not spend that much $$$ repairing it. You have a bad luck with the purchase. That's about it.
You already took a gamble when you made a purchase that was never warrantable in the first place. You lost and time to move on.
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post #12 of 20 Old 02-12-2014, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boone225 View Post

Talking about story, here we make kitchen and we garanty our
product 10 years. On everything. 15 millions business per year.
That's because you made enough profit margin to pay for that 10-year warranty. With the slim margin these electronics are, everyone is doing short warranties.

For a business, they have to calculate/estimate failure rate and set aside funds to cover the cost of warranty. The longer the warranty, the higher the failure rate and more funds have to be set aside as cost. Obvious, it is easier to offer longer warranty period when you have 50% profit margin than 5% profit margin.
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post #13 of 20 Old 02-12-2014, 09:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you all for answering this post.

Denis
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post #14 of 20 Old 02-12-2014, 09:56 AM
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if you're still reading, Foxbat is telling it like it is. and here's another inconvenient truth for you to consider.

in 2008, and previous model years, the 3 top flagship receivers from Pioneer, Denon, Yamaha cost $5500-7000.

now, a so-called flagship receiver is considered to be one that costs $2000-3000 and often discounted to ~$1500.

a huge difference. the build of the older VSX-59txi, Denon 5805/5308 and SC-09 can't be done in a $500-$2000 world.

people buying receivers increasingly wanted them to be a swiss-army knife of features but with cheap prices at the same time.
all the CE companies have to build what sells & justify in a near-meltdown economy.
the average, typical US shopper buys CE gear with price the main factor not the highest build quality or even if something has better performance.

Pioneer and others have packed a whole lot of AV goodness in their receivers for less money than they used to cost 5 yrs ago.

Steve
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post #15 of 20 Old 02-13-2014, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siouxgee View Post

Is there any way to salvage this receiver? Pioneer Recever VSX-1122 -  A couple of weeks ago we began receiving the UE22 error message.  All sound ceased on our tv, and now we can even get sound to come thru the tv diverting from the receiver.  We have tried the Frimware update with the USB, we have tried factory reset numerous times and still no sound.  We have tried attaching an iPod, no sound and even movies will not play sound. From the various blogs on the internet, it sounds like the unit is trash.  Anyone have any fixes that work?

Seems to me I'm not alone anymore. That is exactly how it happened for me.
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post #16 of 20 Old 02-13-2014, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
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[/quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by dchin View Post

I was away from home for three weeks and unplugged the power cord as a safety precaution. When it was reconnected and switched on, the code UE22 kept flashing in the display panel. I tried switching off and on again and the problem did not go away. Page 82 of the manual says this is a firmware upgrade error. This is strange indeed as the receiver was working properly before I left and I did not upgrade the firmware at all. Nevertheless, to resolve the problem, the manual says I should upgrade the firmware again. I downloaded the firmware onto a USB drive, followed the procedure and successfully upgraded the firmware. Well, at least that was what was displayed in the display panel. Thereafter, the receiver shut down as as what the manual has said. However, when I switched on the receiver again, the same old problem was there.


I have emailed Pioneer and asked them about the problem but they have yet to reply me. Has anyone entered the same problem that I have described. If so, I shall be grateful if you could share with me what you know about UE22 and how to go about resolving it instead of waiting for Pioneer to respond.


And here is another one...
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post #17 of 20 Old 02-13-2014, 02:52 PM
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Hey Boone, we just threw in the towel and bought a new receiver.  We have 2 tv's each hooked up to the VSX-1122.  One committed UE-22 and the other is still working fine.  We went to Best Buy to purchase another 1122 and they aren't selling them anymore.  They said they can't get them anymore from Pioneer.  So, we bought the 1123 instead, wired it up and poof!  Sound!  An electronics whiz asked if he could have ours to see if he could get it to work so that's what we're doing. 

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post #18 of 20 Old 02-13-2014, 07:43 PM
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I see from searching on the net that "banging" the unit might get you somewhere "temporary" for the "ue error". IF it does, then you can potentially get "lucky" by doing a more "directed bang" with the cover off on specific boards / areas.... or you can give in and buy something else... :-(
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post #19 of 20 Old 02-13-2014, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

That's because you made enough profit margin to pay for that 10-year warranty. With the slim margin these electronics are, everyone is doing short warranties.

For a business, they have to calculate/estimate failure rate and set aside funds to cover the cost of warranty. The longer the warranty, the higher the failure rate and more funds have to be set aside as cost. Obvious, it is easier to offer longer warranty period when you have 50% profit margin than 5% profit margin.

And even if there were laws specifying minimum warranties (e.g., in the E.U. where it might be expected to have a 2 year warranty), what happens is the price goes up because the "extended warranty" is no longer optional, but built into the price. Just think of it when the cashier at Best Buy asks if you want the extended warranty and being forced to say yes.

And yes, it's one of the reasons why stuff in the EU costs more.
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post #20 of 20 Old 04-01-2014, 04:08 AM
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I understand where your coming from

 

I don't think 800 dollar AMP's should be failing after 2 years.   Here is my story

 

I have a Pioneer VSX-1326-K ( as the Title says it's really a Elite VSX-53)

 

Purchased receiver Boxing Day little over 2 years ago. 

Worked Great till about 4 months ago then I started receiving UE22 Error.  I didn't bother taking it in for warranty as the error would go away.

 

Then about one week ago I lost all audio output,  even on AMP or Through everything else is working perfect. 

I have tried the following

 

-  I disconnected all components and hook up just 2 working speakers and a small HDMI TV,  still no sound on AMP or Through

- I did a factor reset ,  still no sound on AMP or Through

- I tried a firemware update (hangs at 20% then finally gives Error1)  I'm left with a software version of # 1-204-087-***-094

- called pioneer support and they told me unit only has 2 year warranty even tho the website says 3 year warranty

http://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/POCEN/Home/AV-Receivers/FutureShop/VSX-1326-K.  Pioneer wants me to ship them the receiver and they will tell me how much it will cost to repair.

 

Does anybody have a service manual or schematics.   or has anybody heard of this problem before.

 

Does anybody know where I can get an Elite VSX-53 in the United States for a good price and my father could pick it up for me,, then I will have one for parts

 

 
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