Receiver with pre outs for an amp - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 44 Old 02-17-2014, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a denon e400 right now but it's not giving me the power I'm looking for for my cerwin vega ve15s so I need a receiver that has pre outs for an amp and is around the 1000 dollar range..any ideas on top receiver in this range..needs to have 7.1 also
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post #2 of 44 Old 02-17-2014, 07:23 PM
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There are quite a few options in the $1000 range. I've listed some options below.

Yamaha RX-775WA
Yamaha RX-1030
Denon 3313CI
Marantz SR5008
Pioneer SC-71 (pre-outs for FR/FL only)

Also, I would consider refurbished units from accessories4less.com.

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post #3 of 44 Old 02-17-2014, 09:02 PM
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Are you looking for preouts for 7 or just the L/R?

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post #4 of 44 Old 02-17-2014, 09:45 PM
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You also need to beware of the "supplemental" amp(s) that you plan on using along with the sound levels that you are trying to achieve... cause you may fall into the same problem others on the forum have with "AVR shutdown" as you may try to overdrive the pre-amp output stage for amps that are not that sensitive and the pre-amp don't have enough "poop".
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post #5 of 44 Old 02-17-2014, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by budwich View Post

You also need to beware of the "supplemental" amp(s) that you plan on using along with the sound levels that you are trying to achieve... cause you may fall into the same problem others on the forum have with "AVR shutdown" as you may try to overdrive the pre-amp output stage for amps that are not that sensitive and the pre-amp don't have enough "poop".
Can you point me where to read on that, Bud? I don't mind doing the research, I'm just not sure where to look.

I have an Onkyo NR 717 125wpc, and a 5.1 speaker setup. My L/R SEOS Fusion 10 Pures are set for 10-300 wpc. I run a different center.

The Onk has pre-outs for amps, and I was wondering what the benefit would be of providing the L/R's with more power such as the Behringer A500 with 300 wpc, or something with more power (ie more headroom) such as the Behringer EP4000 at 550 wpc.

I currently get plenty of SPL. I was wondering if more power would = more punch or head room.

Symmetry pleases the eye, but it usually offends the ears where low frequencies are concerned. -Yoda Fitzmaurice
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post #6 of 44 Old 02-18-2014, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by wvu80 View Post


The Onk has pre-outs for amps, and I was wondering what the benefit would be of providing the L/R's with more power such as the Behringer A500 with 300 wpc, or something with more power (ie more headroom) such as the Behringer EP4000 at 550 wpc.

It might make your system more complicated and sexier. It would certainly improve your bragging rights.
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post #7 of 44 Old 02-18-2014, 06:13 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm actually just looking to get an amp for my L/R fronts
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post #8 of 44 Old 02-18-2014, 06:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Burn out the pre amp out put?im confused on what I should do then? Get a stronger receiver and amp?
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post #9 of 44 Old 02-18-2014, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wvu80 View Post

I have an Onkyo NR 717 125wpc, and a 5.1 speaker setup.

Actually the Onkyo TX-NR717 is 110wpc. It's rated at 125 W (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.7%, 2 channels driven), 110 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz, 0.08%, 2 channels driven, FTC).
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post #10 of 44 Old 02-18-2014, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by cinaibur View Post

Actually the Onkyo TX-NR717 is 110wpc. It's rated at 125 W (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.7%, 2 channels driven), 110 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz, 0.08%, 2 channels driven, FTC).

LOL! I know you're right! When you search for the specs, there is an entire paragraph about how much power into how many ohms into so many speakers, with every little variable. I can't keep it straight.

It drives me nuts! tongue.gif

Symmetry pleases the eye, but it usually offends the ears where low frequencies are concerned. -Yoda Fitzmaurice
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post #11 of 44 Old 02-18-2014, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxryan View Post

I'm actually just looking to get an amp for my L/R fronts

Ok, if you are only wanting to use an amp for your L/R. You can save quite a bit of money.

edit: Just looked up the receiver I had in mind and it's only 5.1
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post #12 of 44 Old 02-18-2014, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by wvu80 View Post

LOL! I know you're right! When you search for the specs, there is an entire paragraph about how much power into how many ohms into so many speakers, with every little variable. I can't keep it straight.

It drives me nuts! tongue.gif

Sorry, not being a jerk. I just happened to be looking at that receiver today.
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post #13 of 44 Old 02-18-2014, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by cinaibur View Post

Sorry, not being a jerk. I just happened to be looking at that receiver today.

Never apologize for what you are.






+++
Do I really need to put a smiley face on the above statement? Surely you know I took your comment in the fine, fine manner in which it was intended. biggrin.gif

Symmetry pleases the eye, but it usually offends the ears where low frequencies are concerned. -Yoda Fitzmaurice
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post #14 of 44 Old 02-18-2014, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by xxryan View Post

Burn out the pre amp out put?im confused on what I should do then? Get a stronger receiver and amp?

I don't think I said you were going to burn out your receiver... I said it could "shutdown"... as most have protections in them to prevent overdriving stages.

AVR's are designed as a "complete system"... yes there are "hooks" to increase their flexibility but if you drive them towards "limits", then things like "shutdowns" happen. I suggested that you look at the specs of the amp you plan on using along with the SPLs you expect to achieve. IF you are pushing any of these, you will likely not be happy.

IF you want "seperates" AND "extremes", people then go the PRE-PRO route which does not contain any amps and are designed specifically to drive seperate amp stages.
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post #15 of 44 Old 02-19-2014, 04:57 AM
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Does your system have a subwoofer?
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post #16 of 44 Old 02-19-2014, 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

Does your system have a subwoofer?

+1


From a sound quality standpoint adding a good subwoofer to a system that lacks one gives clearly audible benefits in terms of both bass extension (AKA ooompf) and dynamic range. This is generally a surer play than just an outboard amplifier.
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post #17 of 44 Old 02-19-2014, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
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No I don't have a subwoofer..I know that would add a lot more extension to my system but it would also take up more room...but my options are somewhat open on that so I'll look into what would look good.
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post #18 of 44 Old 02-19-2014, 07:41 AM - Thread Starter
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And if I add a subwoofer wouldn't that change my fronts settings to "small"and take away a lot of bass up front?because then most low levels would be routed to the sub right?i don't know much on this it's just my guess.
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post #19 of 44 Old 02-19-2014, 07:45 AM
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Yes. But generally that's a good thing. Your speakers probably equal a good sub, although your CV have a 15" 26 Hz - 20 kHz, but at what -/+ figure? found -/+ 10dB. Pretty poor!

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

Bose Jewel speakers.

 

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post #20 of 44 Old 02-19-2014, 09:28 AM
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Yes. But generally that's a good thing. Your speakers probably equal a good sub, although your CV have a 15" 26 Hz - 20 kHz, but at what -/+ figure? found -/+ 10dB. Pretty poor!

The Marantz 5007 is actually sold out. I ended up buying a Denon X2000 from them last night. It's going to stay in my living room setup, and I will upgrade everything when we buy a house and build a HT.
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post #21 of 44 Old 02-19-2014, 10:26 AM - Thread Starter
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So you think I should look into buying a sub also? Or better front L/R speakers?
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post #22 of 44 Old 02-19-2014, 10:29 AM
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Both I'd start with a SVS SB1000 or PB1000 depending on room size

Cerwin Vega- eesh. I'd buy some new speakers too.

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

Bose Jewel speakers.

 

Jealous of my speakers?

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post #23 of 44 Old 02-19-2014, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by xxryan View Post

So you think I should look into buying a sub also? Or better front L/R speakers?

At a minimum, you need to add a sub, so start with that and see how it works out. if the sub is crossed over at say 80 Hz (A typical crossover value), it will take a lot of load off the receiver and give it more power to supply to the other speakers. Woofers require a lot more electricity than other drivers.

The 15" drivers in the fronts will handle everything from 80 Hz up in the sub area and should still get plenty of use.
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post #24 of 44 Old 02-19-2014, 12:11 PM
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Both I'd start with a SVS SB1000 or PB1000 depending on room size

Cerwin Vega- eesh. I'd buy some new speakers too.

The SVS subs are a good choice for around $500. I would get the ported one over the sealed.
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post #25 of 44 Old 02-19-2014, 12:40 PM
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The SVS subs are a good choice for around $500. I would get the ported one over the sealed.

Why is that?

I've gone from Ported to Sealed.

Just depends on room size, and preference.

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

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post #26 of 44 Old 02-19-2014, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxryan View Post

So you think I should look into buying a sub also? Or better front L/R speakers?

At a minimum, you need to add a sub, so start with that and see how it works out. if the sub is crossed over at say 80 Hz (A typical crossover value), it will take a lot of load off the receiver and give it more power to supply to the other speakers. Woofers require a lot more electricity than other drivers.

The 15" drivers in the fronts will handle everything from 80 Hz up in the sub area and should still get plenty of use.

A sub was my suggestion in his other thread http://www.avsforum.com/t/1518081/bass-problem-with-cerwin-vega-ve15f-and-denon-e400

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post #27 of 44 Old 02-19-2014, 01:42 PM
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Both I'd start with a SVS SB1000 or PB1000 depending on room size

Cerwin Vega- eesh. I'd buy some new speakers too.

I like Cerwin Vega. To each his own.
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post #28 of 44 Old 02-19-2014, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by xxryan View Post

And if I add a subwoofer wouldn't that change my fronts settings to "small"and take away a lot of bass up front?because then most low levels would be routed to the sub right?i don't know much on this it's just my guess.

set them to "small", even though they are actually huge, and set the crossover low, like 50hz. Or your receiver might have a setting like "plus" for the sub which would let the bass go through both your fronts and the sub.
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post #29 of 44 Old 02-19-2014, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxryan View Post

And if I add a subwoofer wouldn't that change my fronts settings to "small"and take away a lot of bass up front?because then most low levels would be routed to the sub right?i don't know much on this it's just my guess.

Bass is notoriously non-directional below the usual 80 Hz crossover so the actual location of the subwoofer(s) does not seriously detract from the bass at the front of the room.

In that range good subwoofers dramatically outperform even the largest allegedly full-range speakers in the area of bass extension, dynamic range and low distortion. Basic bass power is based on the product of cone area and linear cone displacement. 12-13" subwoofer drivers can have up to 25 mm linear travel, whereas even the larger and more robust woofers have less than-9 mm linear travel, while few have 12" cones with 6.5 inch being pretty common. An 18" subwoofer has about twice the cone area as a 12 incher and many people have more than one subwoofer.
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post #30 of 44 Old 02-19-2014, 02:09 PM
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I like Cerwin Vega. To each his own.

PA gear go loud...that's about it.

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

Bose Jewel speakers.

 

Jealous of my speakers?

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