Would I benefit from a new receiver for my setup? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 02-20-2014, 04:58 PM - Thread Starter
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I currently have a YAMAHA RX-V665. My speaker setup is Polkaudio satellites, I can't find the model currently, but it appears they all use the same satellites in the Polkaudio kits. And I have a Klipsch 400w sub, that's way overkill.

I only need HDMI, 5.1. I have an Xbox One console plugged in, that's it. I always just use "pure mode" and have all the speakers dialed in with a db meter. Anyways, just curious to see if I can improve the sound quality or experience with a new receiver.

Thanks!
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post #2 of 16 Old 02-20-2014, 05:16 PM
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Have you actually tried YPAO?

Speakers and room acoustics have the most effect on the quality of the sound you hear, but room EQ like YPAO can often help compensate for infelicities in both. If you use "pure" you're bypassing whatever help the EQ software can provide. When you do that, most modern receivers sound the same unless you're driving them near their maximum output capacity.

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post #3 of 16 Old 02-20-2014, 06:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Have you actually tried YPAO?

Speakers and room acoustics have the most effect on the quality of the sound you hear, but room EQ like YPAO can often help compensate for infelicities in both. If you use "pure" you're bypassing whatever help the EQ software can provide. When you do that, most modern receivers sound the same unless you're driving them near their maximum output capacity.

Yeah I have awhile ago, but it always have me weird results and errors about being out of phrase, when speakers clearly weren't. That's why I purchased a DB meter and never looked back. If I remember correctly, it only had 3 EQ settings, natural, flat and front, Nome of which seemed beneficial to me.

I don't even hear a difference between "straight" and pure mode. Maybe its just me
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post #4 of 16 Old 02-21-2014, 05:31 AM
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"Out of phase" warnings from automated room EQ software often seems to be caused by reflections from nearby barriers -- walls or cabinetry, for example -- causing the software to be confused. Eliminating those reflections often can improve the sound you hear, whether or not EQ is used.

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post #5 of 16 Old 02-21-2014, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

"Out of phase" warnings from automated room EQ software often seems to be caused by reflections from nearby barriers -- walls or cabinetry, for example -- causing the software to be confused. Eliminating those reflections often can improve the sound you hear, whether or not EQ is used.

It can also happen if one speaker is at a different distance than the other. For example if your left front is 10 feet away from the mic and your right is 8 feet away, it sometimes confuses the room correction software. You would think it could compensate since it measures distance, but I've had this happen to me multiple times. It marks a speaker out of phase, but if I move the speaker closer or further, it doesn't.

Either way, you can tell YPAO to ignore the warning and proceed.
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post #6 of 16 Old 02-21-2014, 09:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

"Out of phase" warnings from automated room EQ software often seems to be caused by reflections from nearby barriers -- walls or cabinetry, for example -- causing the software to be confused. Eliminating those reflections often can improve the sound you hear, whether or not EQ is used.

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Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

It can also happen if one speaker is at a different distance than the other. For example if your left front is 10 feet away from the mic and your right is 8 feet away, it sometimes confuses the room correction software. You would think it could compensate since it measures distance, but I've had this happen to me multiple times. It marks a speaker out of phase, but if I move the speaker closer or further, it doesn't.

Either way, you can tell YPAO to ignore the warning and proceed.

I have both those situations, the speakers are at different distances, and one speaker has a cabinet under it. I'm a bit confused about a couple things. What would be the best EQ setup, natural or flat? I don't think front applies because I believe those are for heavier setups. And second, I thought using a DB meter was the way to go for the most accurate solution? I just entered in all the measured distances myself, and calibrated per DB meter. Although it doesn't sound 100% accurate (from left to right in the rear) the db meter says it is. It could be just my hearing, or the video game I'm playing.
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post #7 of 16 Old 02-21-2014, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james9120 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

"Out of phase" warnings from automated room EQ software often seems to be caused by reflections from nearby barriers -- walls or cabinetry, for example -- causing the software to be confused. Eliminating those reflections often can improve the sound you hear, whether or not EQ is used.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

It can also happen if one speaker is at a different distance than the other. For example if your left front is 10 feet away from the mic and your right is 8 feet away, it sometimes confuses the room correction software. You would think it could compensate since it measures distance, but I've had this happen to me multiple times. It marks a speaker out of phase, but if I move the speaker closer or further, it doesn't.

Either way, you can tell YPAO to ignore the warning and proceed.

I have both those situations, the speakers are at different distances, and one speaker has a cabinet under it. I'm a bit confused about a couple things. What would be the best EQ setup, natural or flat?
It depends on what you're listening to and your personal preferences. Movies tend to sound better with "natural", music with "flat".
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I don't think front applies because I believe those are for heavier setups. And second, I thought using a DB meter was the way to go for the most accurate solution? I just entered in all the measured distances myself, and calibrated per DB meter. Although it doesn't sound 100% accurate (from left to right in the rear) the db meter says it is. It could be just my hearing, or the video game I'm playing.
YPAO does more than just determine distance and and speaker sound levels. It uses a high-performance digital signal processor to apply a large number of filters to try to improve the frequency responses of the speakers as heard by its microphone at your listening position in your room.

My understanding is that actually having both of the main speakers at precisely the same distance from your primary listening position can improve the quality of what you hear, as can having a listening environment that's symmetric. Unfortunately, those options are not always possible. (I can't do both with mine.) Depending on the speaker design, "toeing them in", so the tweeters point more directly toward the listening position, can help, too.
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post #8 of 16 Old 02-21-2014, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

It depends on what you're listening to and your personal preferences. Movies tend to sound better with "natural", music with "flat".
YPAO does more than just determine distance and and speaker sound levels. It uses a high-performance digital signal processor to apply a large number of filters to try to improve the frequency responses of the speakers as heard by its microphone at your listening position in your room.

My understanding is that actually having both of the main speakers at precisely the same distance from your primary listening position can improve the quality of what you hear, as can having a listening environment that's symmetric. Unfortunately, those options are not always possible. (I can't do both with mine.) Depending on the speaker design, "toeing them in", so the tweeters point more directly toward the listening position, can help, too.

Thanks, I didn't know YPAO had those features! I will give it another go. Unfortunetly I can't adjust my rear speakers so they're an even distance, but I do have them pointed directly at my seating position, along with the fronts as well.
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post #9 of 16 Old 02-22-2014, 06:34 AM - Thread Starter
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So I went through with the YPAO process last night, and used "Natural" as the EQ settings. I figured natural would be the best because all I do is watch movies and play video games. It said one speaker was out of phrase, I double checked the wiring and it was not. No big deal. I immediately noticed a difference in sound, the quality didn't seem as clear as with direct input, but no big deal. The surround affect in video games was a lot better, I was impressed. And it seemed like it nailed the rear speaker levels perfectly, despite the unequal difference. The distances seemed correct, except for the sub woofer of course. Easy fix though.

All in all, impressed with the feature, I'm glad it was recommended to me! I'll save the DB meter for another day.
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post #10 of 16 Old 02-22-2014, 06:52 AM
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Why did you change the sub distance setting? Was it set to a shorter or longer distance? Did the sound improve after you changed it?

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post #11 of 16 Old 02-22-2014, 07:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Why did you change the sub distance setting? Was it set to a shorter or longer distance? Did the sound improve after you changed it?
It was set to a longer distance. My seating setup is horrible for bass, I often experience dead spots and lack of bass, but there's nothing I can do about it.

Sound quality is hard to determine, I haven't clocked much time with it yet. It seemed like voices and clarity has changed a little bit, it sounds a bit more muffled compared to the EQ settings at off, or pure direct mode. But the "surround" effect has increased a bit, puts you more into the action it seems.
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post #12 of 16 Old 02-22-2014, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by james9120 View Post

So I went through with the YPAO process last night, and used "Natural" as the EQ settings. I figured natural would be the best because all I do is watch movies and play video games. It said one speaker was out of phrase, I double checked the wiring and it was not. No big deal. I immediately noticed a difference in sound, the quality didn't seem as clear as with direct input, but no big deal. The surround affect in video games was a lot better, I was impressed. And it seemed like it nailed the rear speaker levels perfectly, despite the unequal difference. The distances seemed correct, except for the sub woofer of course. Easy fix though.

All in all, impressed with the feature, I'm glad it was recommended to me! I'll save the DB meter for another day.

The sub "distance" is longer to account for the delay caused by the filters in the sub. The distance should not be adjusted.
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post #13 of 16 Old 02-22-2014, 03:22 PM - Thread Starter
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The sub "distance" is longer to account for the delay caused by the filters in the sub. The distance should not be adjusted.
Thank you! I did not know that. Will revert back to the set distance.
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post #14 of 16 Old 02-23-2014, 07:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Can someone explain what "Dynamic Range" does under setup - Sound Setup, and what j should set it to? This is another feature I don't understand and the manual doesn't elaborate very well on.
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post #15 of 16 Old 02-23-2014, 07:59 AM
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Basically the difference between loudest and quietest bits in a movie. Useful if late night watching, you have it so you hear people talking then BOOOM explosion wakes your kids up. With Dynamic range enabled the boom volume is dropped down to similar level to talking.

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post #16 of 16 Old 02-23-2014, 08:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Basically the difference between loudest and quietest bits in a movie. Useful if late night watching, you have it so you hear people talking then BOOOM explosion wakes your kids up. With Dynamic range enabled the boom volume is dropped down to similar level to talking.
Thanks, that makes sense. But isn't it similar to Adaptive DRC? Or does DRC do the opposite, raise lower volumes only?
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