Denon X4000 or Pioneer Elite SC-75, any suggestion will help - Page 2 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 40 Old 03-24-2014, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brutal0101 View Post

How much of an improvement is the SC-77 or SC-79 over the SC-75 because they are both AIR Studios and THX Ultra2 certified?

 

Well, I'll speak just to the SC-77. It's 5w stronger at 8 ohms, weights more and consumes a bit more energy, but this is understandable. THX Ultra2 is basically referring to the viewing size of the room it's in. Other than that, Idk as I'm not a THX expert.

 

The AIR studios looks really cool and I would of liked to have it. I just didn't want to spend an additional $300. However, the SC-77 has better zoning compared to the SC-75. Glad to hear that in your prior comment that the SC-75 sounds really good. 

 

I can't reiterate enough that it's replacing a Marantz 4002..so the difference should be shocking!

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post #32 of 40 Old 03-24-2014, 11:39 PM
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By the way, one thing I hate about Pioneers is MCACC. I have owned 2 other pioneers in the past and it is absolutely useless. It makes the speakers sound hollow and weak. On the other hand, YPAO was fantastic. I always kept it on while I always kept MCACC off. The receiver sounded much better with it off. Right now I am considering the A3030, SC-77, S7008, or the Denon 4520 if I can get a really good deal on them. Really confused though because HDMI 2.0 is about to come out.

If anyone knows which of the receivers I am considering sounds best I would really appreciate it. The only thing I care about is sound quality and being able to scroll through songs through the android app which no receiver brand seems to support except Onkyo but their receivers are unreliable (HDMI Board failures in 2 years) and don't sound all that great to me.
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post #33 of 40 Old 03-25-2014, 12:05 AM
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I'll take your word on the MCACC not being great, but I got it for many other reasons. A lot of the sound quality is probably due to the Ultra Sabre DACs and THX cert. Keep in mind, it's also capable of 4 ohms which is an advantage and can bring out a lot of power..with the right speakers (such is my case). I imagine if one of the other ones you mentioned above does sound "better" (let's use this subjectively) .. it would be marginal at best.

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post #34 of 40 Old 03-25-2014, 03:20 AM
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Just tossing this out there, but I've asked several people about THX certification and I've been told it means nothing. It's basically a company saying they want to pay for the certification so people will think that product is better when in reality it's just something to be able to charge more for.

Supposedly, a lot of products that aren't THX certified could be; however, those companies don't want to pay extra for the certification.
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post #35 of 40 Old 03-25-2014, 03:45 AM
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I hear ya. I just like everything about the Pioneer Elite design especially the aesthetics. Also, my tv is THX, and my TiVo is THX so, for what its worth, I wanted to have it.

 

Though, if it apparently sounds better than a highly regarded Yamaha, then I'm sure the receiver speaks for itself.

 

...

 

Are you any closer to a decision as of now?

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post #36 of 40 Old 04-03-2014, 09:34 PM
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I thought I would upgrade this therad upon receiving my receiver the other day (SC-75).

 

Thoughts..

 

I love it. The remote is a little cryptic and I understand users wanting something simpler, but with a little time, patience, and understanding, it's fine and I actually enjoy using it.

 

It sounds great. I love the network functions, Pandora, Airplay, Spotify Connect, DLNA media server and I like that the information is pushed to the unit itself (typically the song that is playing.

 

I am really upsetting myself up (more than anyone else probably) about the following:

Power Output: Watts per Channel (8 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.08 %, 2 ch Driven FTC) 135 Watts x 9
Power Output: Watts per Channel (4 ohms, 1 kHz, 1 %, 2 ch Driven) 220 Watts x 9

 

I'm running ML ESL mains (L/R) and they are rated at 6 ohms. Despite this, I have done a lot of research/reading and I'm understanding that I should leave the setting at 8 ohms and not lower it to 4 or 6.  I just wish I understood more, because it just sounds like less ohms = more wattage/power, but I guess maybe I'm wrong. It almost feels as if I'm missing out on power/potential. Furthermore, I don't know how to determine what the current setting is.. Maybe it's all automatic?

 

Anyways, I have a TiVo XL 4 and when plugged in via HDMI, the audio output is weak. Also, when set to Dolby Digital, there is no dialogue, this is because there is no center, but I guess I'm surprised it's not "downmixed" per say. As far as the audio output, I think this may be more of an issue with the TiVo itself. I might try optical or adjust the dB per the individual HDMI source (input volume absorber)

 

Also, the MCACC seems cool, but I don't have any of the configurations ranging from 5.1 to 9.1/2. All I have currently is 2.1.

 

Anyway, I think it's awesome and thought I would share where I'm at with everything so far.

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post #37 of 40 Old 04-03-2014, 10:34 PM
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You can get better Sub EQ with a separate unit like a minidsp. So if you are willing to spend the money on the SC-75 or X4000 I think you should really consider doing the minidsp or other unit.

If you are absolutely unwilling to get a separate unit then you need to x-nay the Pioneer but I really like that Pioneer units are phase accurate which I think people under value.

But if EQ accross the board is most important to you then I think the X4000 or an Anthem unit would probably be some of your best choices.

Trying to enjoy the simple things in life.

 

Steam: madbrayniak

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post #38 of 40 Old 04-03-2014, 11:17 PM
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So I found this little bit in regards to my ohm dilemma...

 

"The impedances indicated are actual values that speakers can present to an amplifier while
playing back music. They do not refer to the nominal rated impedances of speakers you use."

 

 

And of course the speakers are referring to nominal impedance. So I think I feel better now, that, and I don't think there is an option to change this unlike past receivers. So I'm guessing the setting would be "4Ω-16Ω"?...

 

EDIT:

Or maybe just "4Ω'8Ω" .. That might be more sensible.

 

Still, wouldn't lower impedance speakers generally mean more power as more wattage is provided by the receiver? I still can't seem to wrap my head around this one..

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post #39 of 40 Old 04-04-2014, 11:40 AM
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I did not think Pioneer AVR's had an "ohms" switch? There is nothing to change, at least IIRC.

In the very few schematics I have seen the ohms setting reduces the voltage when switched to the lower setting in most AVRs. One AVR changed the current limiting (no,I do not recall which one). Since everyone seems to like car analogies, either way is like putting a governor on the throttle to limit max power. Probably for thermal management (keep the heat down) though they may be worried about current margin as well.

Most folk suggest leaving it set to 8 ohms (or the higher setting) at first. If there are no shutdowns and the amp does not run excessively hot probably not a problem.

ML and other ESLs tend to dip to very low impedance at high frequency, often below 2 ohms. That is a difficult load for many amps, but since HF power is lower I have not heard it being a problem in the real world.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #40 of 40 Old 04-04-2014, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

I did not think Pioneer AVR's had an "ohms" switch? There is nothing to change, at least IIRC.

In the very few schematics I have seen the ohms setting reduces the voltage when switched to the lower setting in most AVRs. One AVR changed the current limiting (no,I do not recall which one). Since everyone seems to like car analogies, either way is like putting a governor on the throttle to limit max power. Probably for thermal management (keep the heat down) though they may be worried about current margin as well.

Most folk suggest leaving it set to 8 ohms (or the higher setting) at first. If there are no shutdowns and the amp does not run excessively hot probably not a problem.

ML and other ESLs tend to dip to very low impedance at high frequency, often below 2 ohms. That is a difficult load for many amps, but since HF power is lower I have not heard it being a problem in the real world.

I'm very aware at the load ML ESLs can present to receivers/amplifiers and this is one of the reasons I really wanted to go with the Pioneer Elite as it can at least handle 4 ohms confidently. YOu are correct and everything I can find or not find, suggest there is no way to change the setting. The manual simply states that the receiver can take anything from a 4 ohm speaker to a 16 ohm speaker.

 

Thanks for the response and the input. 

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