Should I get an Elite sc-75 or add an XPA-5 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 02-26-2014, 08:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey everyone, im new here and have a question. I currently have an Onkyo tx-nr808 and I am wanting to spend some money. I can get a good deal on a Pioneer Elite sc-75 and sell my Onkyo or I can buy a new Emotiva XPA-5 or XPA-3 to use with my Onkyo. Im no pro at this stuff but I have been enjoying my setup for a few years now.

I currently have the Polk Audio RTi10s in the front, a CSi4 Center, and a pair of FXi6s for surrounds along with a DSW pro 500 polk sub.

I know the XPA-5 will be awesome, but I have been reading about the class D3 amps in the ELITE receivers and seems as though there output doesn't diminish near as much as my current setup. I guess im only getting around 50-60 watts per channel currently.

Your advice would be greatly appreciated and thanks everyone, ive spent the last 3 days reading about the Emotiva amps on this forum and other places and everyone here has very valuable information without bashing or flaming the new guys. very nice! biggrin.gif
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post #2 of 25 Old 02-26-2014, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Just to throw this into the mix, Ive been reading about the Denon X4000 and that looks like a very nice option over the sc-75
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post #3 of 25 Old 02-26-2014, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by dandiele View Post

... I am wanting to spend some money. ...

 

What are you dissatisfied with in your current setup?  If you want an actual improvement in the sound, look to room placement and room acoustics, and look to better speakers (including subwoofers).

 

Of course, if you want to just spend your money, anything will work for that.

 

 

By the way, this advice is coming to you from someone who would not buy an Onkyo receiver.  But if I had one, I would not replace it without some reason to do so.  My advice is to put your money where it will make a real difference.  If you want more or deeper bass, buy an SVS Ultra subwoofer (I would go with the cylinder version).  If you want the upper frequencies to be better, replace your main speakers.


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post #4 of 25 Old 02-26-2014, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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I suppose saying I just simply wanna spend money isnt the right way of saying it, I should have said I have some money to spend....

I guess I can say I think everything sounds good, we can watch movies at ref level with no distortion or anything how ever we just moved everything from a smaller room in our basement to our frontroom which is about 2x the size and opens into the eat in kitchen, things still sound good but I feel like it lost some punch. the subwoofer seems more noticeable but im not getting the same volume levels from my seating distance which is about 12-13 feet away compared to about 5-6 feet away like it was downstairs. I notice I need to go above 0db on the dial to get what sounds to me like the same volume and level of excitement. I am thinking of maybe just going with the x4000 for the audyssey xt32 room correction since I think having the room open into the kitchen isnt helping anything. I know my sub isnt top of the line at all but for my little house it rattles the windows. granted there old windows haha.
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post #5 of 25 Old 02-26-2014, 10:27 AM
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In that case, get an SVS Ultra subwoofer.  I would go with the cylinder version, as it is the best value, and because it is lighter and an easier shape to grab onto, much easier to move than the approximately equivalent box version.  It also takes up less floor space.


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post #6 of 25 Old 02-26-2014, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Yea I dont think I need or want to switch out my speakers or anything, they have sounded great in the past and still sound good to me. Was just thinking of upgrading my reciever with either more power from an amp from emotiva or a new receiver with better room correction.
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post #7 of 25 Old 02-26-2014, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dandiele View Post

Yea I dont think I need or want to switch out my speakers or anything, they have sounded great in the past and still sound good to me. Was just thinking of upgrading my reciever with either more power from an amp from emotiva or a new receiver with better room correction.

Since you moved the system to a larger room adding another sub will help also. Like another member suggested the SVS sub would be a very good upgrade. For a room that size you would actually be better off with two of them. You could try another sub like the one you have and try it out.
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post #8 of 25 Old 02-26-2014, 12:42 PM
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A larger room makes greater demands on speakers.  Especially bass.  You need a better subwoofer for a larger room than you need for a small one.


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post #9 of 25 Old 02-26-2014, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
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my sub seems to be fine, leaving it set at what the setup provided its fine -7 but I mean I can crank it up higher and it gets much louder. just seems my overall volume is less. there is not really a lack of bass, either from the rti10s if i set them to full range or from the sub. just not as powerful sounding and feeling as it was in the smaller room as a whole. maybe ill try running the audyssey setup again. I used 5 positions, ear level at my seats with a tripod 1 in the center of the 2 seats at ear level and 2 a few feet in front of the seats at ear level
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post #10 of 25 Old 02-26-2014, 01:10 PM - Thread Starter
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keep in mind my whole main level of my house is just over 700 sq ft.
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post #11 of 25 Old 02-26-2014, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by dandiele View Post

my sub seems to be fine, leaving it set at what the setup provided its fine -7 but I mean I can crank it up higher and it gets much louder. just seems my overall volume is less. there is not really a lack of bass, either from the rti10s if i set them to full range or from the sub. just not as powerful sounding and feeling as it was in the smaller room as a whole. maybe ill try running the audyssey setup again. I used 5 positions, ear level at my seats with a tripod 1 in the center of the 2 seats at ear level and 2 a few feet in front of the seats at ear level
If you're missing the punch you had, change the eq settings, bump up the sub - you don't have to blindly (deaf-ly?) accept what audyssey gave you! TBH, I think you already have easily enough amp power for a 700 sq ft room, let alone a room in a 700 sq ft entire fllor!
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post #12 of 25 Old 02-26-2014, 02:09 PM
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Are your Polks set to small? If not then change them to small after re-running Audyssey. Use all mic positions for that flavor of Audyssey. There should be a graph in the owners manual to show the different positions for positioning the mic.
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post #13 of 25 Old 02-26-2014, 02:35 PM
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Buy the Emotiva, your receiver obviously doesn't have the muscle to power your system the same in the bigger room. Obviously at the end of the day acoustic differences between rooms make a difference but nothing changes things like power. I did some work on a system recently involving an onkyo receiver, emotiva xp3, Klipsch rf82 towers with matching center. The rf82's keep up with a pair of Klipsch 15" subs. Subs maybe play 5hz lower but are absolutely not needed at loud volumes lol
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post #14 of 25 Old 02-26-2014, 02:48 PM - Thread Starter
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crap I dont remember what the fronts got set at, center and surrounds was 50hz, I dont have the option for large or small just full band or a cross over setting. I am wondering if a bigger problem may be that my setup is on the wall facing me, and my seats have there back facing the wide opening into the kitchen, not sure how much that will affect things. like I said im going to run the setup again and see what happens. its so tempting to grab this denon x4000 on the way home though haha. ive been happy with my setup for years now so im not going to let it defeat me.

One thing I did notice in the process of moving everything upstairs I was playing some music while sitting on the floor against the wall and I could really feel the bass in my chest from the fronts on full range. sub was unplugged already so I set it to fullrange and stereo. The other thing is I had them biamped downstairs and I chose not to Biamp them upstairs, not sure if that is making much of a difference or not.
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post #15 of 25 Old 02-26-2014, 02:52 PM - Thread Starter
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I do know the fronts were not set at 80hz and were not at 50hz, im pretty sure it was 60hz front and 50hz C and surrounds. if this matters.
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post #16 of 25 Old 02-26-2014, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knowinnothin View Post

Buy the Emotiva, your receiver obviously doesn't have the muscle to power your system the same in the bigger room. ...

 

His Onkyo can put out 135 watts into 8 ohms, and the Emotiva puts out 200 watts into 8 ohms.  That is about a 1.7dB difference.  Most likely, it will be completely trivial, and make no practical difference for him at all.  Except to his bank account.


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post #17 of 25 Old 02-26-2014, 02:58 PM - Thread Starter
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The main reason I was considering the amp is that with all channels driven I know I'm not getting near 135wpc and the amp would get me 200wpc with the 3 and let the onkyo do the surrounds. However I don't know what the real world difference would be in my case.
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post #18 of 25 Old 02-26-2014, 03:01 PM - Thread Starter
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But I appreciate you looking out for me jack d ripper. Although I have some money to spend I don't want to essentially waste it on something that will make no difference. Just hard for me to know what will and what will not make a difference. I went from a Yamaha rxv1800 to this onkyo and thought it sounded better slightly but nothing drastic so I don't wanna jump on a new receiver. I wanted Dolby true HD and master audio was a big push for the switch and 3d ability which is no use now... Hate 3d.
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post #19 of 25 Old 02-26-2014, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by dandiele View Post

I do know the fronts were not set at 80hz and were not at 50hz, im pretty sure it was 60hz front and 50hz C and surrounds. if this matters.

 

Given your speakers, those are not good settings:

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dandiele View Post

...

I currently have the Polk Audio RTi10s in the front, a CSi4 Center, and a pair of FXi6s for surrounds along with a DSW pro 500 polk sub.

...

 

Your crossover settings should be above the -3dB point of the bass response of the relevant speaker.  For the RTi10 speakers, this should be above 35 Hz (so 50 Hz or higher would probably be good for the crossover setting for them).  If you mean a CSiA4 center, it should be above 65 Hz (so 80 Hz or higher would probably be good for the crossover setting for it).  If you mean F/XiA6 for the surround, it should be above 55 Hz (so 80 Hz would probably be good for the crossover setting for them).

 

The reason you want the crossover above the -3dB point is that the bass is already 3dB down at that point, already on its downward drop to nothingness.  You don't want a dip in the frequency response between the main speakers and the subwoofer, so the crossover should be above that point.


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post #20 of 25 Old 02-26-2014, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by dandiele View Post

The main reason I was considering the amp is that with all channels driven I know I'm not getting near 135wpc and the amp would get me 200wpc with the 3 and let the onkyo do the surrounds. However I don't know what the real world difference would be in my case.

 

The all channels driven test is not representative of actual use in the real world.  Surround sound does not require full power into all channels simultaneously.  For more on this, see the article at:

 

http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/the-all-channels-driven-acd-amplifier-test

 

You will need to click through to each additional page.  It is long, but worth reading.


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post #21 of 25 Old 02-26-2014, 03:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Given your speakers, those are not good settings:


Your crossover settings should be above the -3dB point of the bass response of the relevant speaker.  For the RTi10 speakers, this should be above 35 Hz (so 50 Hz or higher would probably be good for the crossover setting for them).  If you mean a CSiA4 center, it should be above 65 Hz (so 80 Hz or higher would probably be good for the crossover setting for it).  If you mean F/XiA6 for the surround, it should be above 55 Hz (so 80 Hz would probably be good for the crossover setting for them).

The reason you want the crossover above the -3dB point is that the bass is already 3dB down at that point, already on its downward drop to nothingness.  You don't want a dip in the frequency response between the main speakers and the subwoofer, so the crossover should be above that point.
That is very good to know, I'm gonna run audyssey again and see were it puts them a second time. I'm not sure why it out then so low this time but I'll manually adjust them if it's that way a second time.
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post #22 of 25 Old 02-26-2014, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack D Ripper View Post

Given your speakers, those are not good settings:


Your crossover settings should be above the -3dB point of the bass response of the relevant speaker.  For the RTi10 speakers, this should be above 35 Hz (so 50 Hz or higher would probably be good for the crossover setting for them).  If you mean a CSiA4 center, it should be above 65 Hz (so 80 Hz or higher would probably be good for the crossover setting for it).  If you mean F/XiA6 for the surround, it should be above 55 Hz (so 80 Hz would probably be good for the crossover setting for them).

The reason you want the crossover above the -3dB point is that the bass is already 3dB down at that point, already on its downward drop to nothingness.  You don't want a dip in the frequency response between the main speakers and the subwoofer, so the crossover should be above that point.
That is very good to know, I'm gonna run audyssey again and see were it puts them a second time. I'm not sure why it out then so low this time but I'll manually adjust them if it's that way a second time.

 

A lot of automatic setup systems get the crossover settings wrong.  I don't know why.  (They can usually be trusted for delays and levels.)  I have speakers with a -3dB of 50 Hz that everything seems to want to set to "large" or full range.  I manually set the crossover to 80 Hz.


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post #23 of 25 Old 02-26-2014, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack D Ripper View Post

His Onkyo can put out 135 watts into 8 ohms, and the Emotiva puts out 200 watts into 8 ohms.  That is about a 1.7dB difference.  Most likely, it will be completely trivial, and make no practical difference for him at all.  Except to his bank account.


His Onkyo certainly could output 135 watts into 8ohms, if it does with how many channels driven? Couldn't find a review on the amp to see what tested power was at 5 channels, I've got a Pioneer SC-68 rated a lot more than the onkyo and power wise it struggles to keep up with a 125 watt X 2 parasound amp.

Onkyo's own website indicates the amp doesn't have a toroidal power supply so I'm more inclined to think its power isnt anywhere close to what the specs say.
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post #24 of 25 Old 02-26-2014, 03:30 PM
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Everything I've read is good information, having said that power is the upgrade your looking for. I've got nothing against onkyo, I've got something against all receivers made these days. There power ratings are pure garbage, receivers with decent power left with the toroid power supplies years ago. Thinking that 125 watts real power is enough for tower speakers is wrong, put some power on them and see. Emotiva has a great return policy.

I have a hard time thinking you would be upset if you took my advice and tried an xp3/5 on your speakers. Personally I would just get the xp3 for your front channels.
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post #25 of 25 Old 08-17-2014, 08:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Alright guys, I want to thank you for the input on this decision months ago. I know this is an old thread but I wanted to update.

In 2 weeks I will be picking up an SVS PB-2000 for my setup. I feel that I will notice a huge improvement. Thanks Jack D Ripper for providing some sound advice on which way I should go. Eventually I would like to add an emotiva XPA 5 to the setup as a whole, but until then I think the PB-2000 will be a huge upgrade over my current polk audio dsw pro 500!
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