Need a Processor or Receiver..which to pick under $2k - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 69 Old 02-26-2014, 12:00 PM - Thread Starter
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So my B&K Reference 70 finally died and so did the company. B&K reminds me of another company who stated they were in it for the long term, upgradeable boards, trade in programs, and yes, Made in the USA. well, I bought into it and regret it. I don't care if it is made in the US or not, I just want the best and thru a company that will stay in business. If its assembled or manufactured in the US, that's just a bonus.

So should I buy now or wait a little longer?

If I go now, Which would you suggest for under $2,000 msrp? As far as preamps/receivers, the differences between a preamp/processor and receiver seems to be scale of economies. Since they make so many receivers, their price point is about ½ of the preamp processor. Since I am using my own Sunfire Signature amps for running 7 channels, the internal amps don’t mean much if anything to me but the receivers come with them by default (obviously). 7.2 for my house is the most channels I need so the 9.1 and 11.1 channel receiver are a waste. Not to eliminate them in consideration just sort of a waste much like the built in amps on a Receiver. My wife would kill me if I added more speakers. I am using BG Radia speakers.. http://www.bgcorp.com/in-wall_table.html they made a custom sound bar using 3 SA-200's (LCR) sized to the Panasonic 65" VT60 and the side and rear channels are the BG Radia PD-8i http://www.bgcorp.com/in-wall_table.html Using a pair of in-wall Sonance Subs. Which are mounted in the front left corner of the room, side by side. http://www.sonance.com/files/downloads/file/CINEMA%20RETRO%20DATA%20SHEET.pdf. http://www.sonance.com/products/electronics/detail/623 I can only turn 1/2 way up..any louder and I will bring the roof down! Since I am no further than 4 feet from any amp to the receiver/preamp, I am not using XLR connections..should I be?



I am totally open to suggestions!!! One top consideration is the Denon x4000 ($1299 msrp). Maybe Marantz 7008 ($1999 msrp). Both have XT32 and I am running all digital inputs from Direct TV, PlayStation 3, Home Theater laptop. Thoughts on Anthem? What about Yamaha for a 7.2 or maybe 9.2 (even though I would not use the other 2 channels). Emotiva XMC-1 http://shop.emotiva.com/products/xmc-1 ?? Any others? XT32 is not the only game in town either.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated.

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post #2 of 69 Old 02-26-2014, 12:19 PM
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I stopped using my Ref20 about two years ago when my Harmony remote died and I found out my BK remote no longer worked so I couldn't program a new one. Decided it was time to move on to Blu-ray and HDMI.
Since I already had a good 5 ch amp, I bought the entry level Anthem receiver. It worked great until recently, one of the RCA jacks on the pre-outs broke, I was able to get it to work, but will have to send it in for repair. Just not built as well as BK stuff.
My amp died several months ago and I started using the amps in the Anthem, which work fine for the listening levels I use. I'm now using some Salk SCSTs and their CC, along with a Vandersteen sub and their surrounds.
The latest Anthems came out a few months ago, the entry level 310 now only does up to 5.1, for 7.1 you need the 510, which is about $1600 I believe.
I went with Anthem because i heard great things about their room correction software. Like the pro version of Audyssey, it uses a calibrated mic and laptop to do the calculations. Very easy to use. It also has a minimum level of bells and whistles that I neither needed or wanted in an AVR.
I found the value of getting into another pre/pro vs AVR wasn't there.
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post #3 of 69 Old 02-26-2014, 01:57 PM
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I also had a B&K Ref 50 S2, well actually still have it though on sale at the momen, but when my B&K Ref 2007 amp died and it was destroyed in shipping after being fixed by EEVA I gave up on B&K. Now I do still miss the sound of the Ref 50 but have since purchased a Yamaha CX-A5000 prepro and it is leaps and bounds ahead in terms of quality and features. If you do some searching you may be able to find one with a street price really close to your budget. i still may hook up my ref 50 again but use it only for stereo playback and use XLR A/B Switches to share my amps betwenn the two pre pros.

Yamaha CX-A5000, ATI AT 2007 Amp (7X200W), ATI AT 2004 Amp (4X200W)Klipsch RF 63's - Main, RB 61's - Front heights, RC-62 - Center, RS-62's - Surround, RS-52's - Rear Surround, 2 Rythmik DS-1510 DIY Subwoofers (With PEQ600XLR3 Amp) each connected with Antimode 8033S-II, Oppo BDP-95, MMF-7.1, Project Phono Box RS, XBox 360, XBox One
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post #4 of 69 Old 02-26-2014, 02:18 PM
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+1 on the Anthem 510.
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post #5 of 69 Old 02-26-2014, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
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What is the difference between Anthem 510 and 710? (Besides amps)? Different Codecs? Room Correction? ??? The Anthem Pre/Pro's are $6k and $9k..way too much for my blood!
How does Anthem 510/710 compare to Denon x4000 as a preamp? (Since I already have external amps)

The Yamaha looks interesting too..above my price range but possible.

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post #6 of 69 Old 02-26-2014, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael James View Post

What is the difference between Anthem 510 and 710? (Besides amps)? Different Codecs? Room Correction? ??? The Anthem Pre/Pro's are $6k and $9k..way too much for my blood!
How does Anthem 510/710 compare to Denon x4000 as a preamp? (Since I already have external amps)

The Yamaha looks interesting too..above my price range but possible.

http://www.anthemav.com/products-current/collection=performance/model=mrx-710/page=overview

This page will give you an idea about the difference of the three models. Have you considered other brands. NAD T758 goes for under 1K at Crutchfield. Also one I believe should be considered.

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_745T758/NAD-T-758.html

If you like to tweak then consider the Yamaha RX-A3030. I have a A3000 and you can tweak that thing till you're silly.
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post #7 of 69 Old 02-26-2014, 04:20 PM
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IMO Anthem makes some of the most overpriced mediocre crap available.

They will sell you a 2nd-rate $600 receiver for $2000; the biggest ripoff in the business IMO.

There is no question in my mind about the best receiver you can get for under $2000; the Cambridge Audio 651R.

It has amplifiers that SOUND GOOD when driving real speakers, because they are DESIGNED to drive real speakers; not just a resistor load, to generate a meaningless power spec with no consideration for distortion.

Furthermore, because the amplifiers and power supplies in the 651R are so well-designed and can do such a good job of driving real speakers with low distortion, you DO NOT need any external amplifiers to use with it.

Another company that makes very good-sounding AVRs is NAD.

POWER is not the answer. Power specs, as they are published, are essentially worthless, since they don't give you a clue how much distortion really occurs.

Any engineer or knowledgeable audio pro knows that there are lots of 50 watt integrated amplifiers that are well-designed and sound great driving almost any speaker.

On the other hand, most of the AVRS on the market are supposedly "rated" at 150 watts, more or less, and sound like crap driving the same speakers.

Get the picture? Power specs are useless and anyone who uses them as a guide is deluding himself.

50 watts is more than enough to drive 95% of the speakers on the market, but it has to be REAL usable power, with low distortion (less than 1%), not the garbage power that most AVRs are "specified" to give...with unknown amounts of distortion when actually driving SPEAKERS.
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post #8 of 69 Old 02-26-2014, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

IMO Anthem makes some of the most overpriced mediocre crap available.

They will sell you a 2nd-rate $600 receiver for $2000.

There is no question in my mind about the best receiver you can get for under $2000; the Cambridge Audio 651R.

It has amplifiers that SOUND GOOD when driving real speakers, because they are DESIGNED to drive real speakers; not just a resistor load, to generate a meaningless power spec with no consideration for distortion.

Furthermore, because the amplifiers and power supplies in the 751R are so well-designed and can do such a good job of driving real speakers with low distortion, you DO NOT need any external amplifiers to use with it.

Another company that makes very good-sounding AVRs is NAD.

POWER is not the answer. Power specs, as they are published, are essentially worthless, since they don't give you a clue how much distortion really occurs.

Any engineer or knowledgeable audio pro knows that there are lots of 50 watt integrated amplifiers that are well-designed and sound great driving almost any speaker.

On the other hand, most of the AVRS on the market are supposedly "rated" at 150 watts, more or less, and sound like crap driving the same speakers.

Get the picture? Power specs are useless and anyone who uses them as a guide is deluding himself.

What do you think about Pioneer SC-XXXX-K receivers?
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post #9 of 69 Old 02-26-2014, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Acousticality View Post

What do you think about Pioneer SC-XXXX-K receivers?

Very poor sound quality.

That also goes for almost anything made by Onkyo, Pioneer, Yamaha, Denon, Sony, etc.

The only ones I will recommend are NAD and Cambridge Audio.

Arcam also makes some great receivers, but the prices are really high.
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post #10 of 69 Old 02-26-2014, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

Very poor sound quality.

That also goes for almost anything made by Onkyo, Pioneer, Yamaha, Denon, Sony, etc.

The only ones I will recommend are NAD and Cambridge Audio.

Arcam also makes some great receivers, but the prices are really high.

The Cambridge AVR's do sound good. But, have you read any of the threads concerning their AVR's and their ongoing problem of cutting off the beginning of music from all sources connected to them? Would seem to be a easy fix that CA doesn't want to address. Not something that should be happening with any of their models, especially for the amount they cost. Doesn't seem to be happening to the Yamaha's,Pioneers.Denon's of any model. Anthems aren't doing it either. CA or Onkyo's are not brands that I would purchase. JMHO.
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post #11 of 69 Old 02-26-2014, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

Very poor sound quality.

That also goes for almost anything made by Onkyo, Pioneer, Yamaha, Denon, Sony, etc.

The only ones I will recommend are NAD and Cambridge Audio.

Arcam also makes some great receivers, but the prices are really high.

What would you recommend for a 9.2 channel AVR?smile.gif
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post #12 of 69 Old 02-26-2014, 05:12 PM
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What would you recommend for a 9.2 channel AVR?smile.gif

I'm not him but for 9.2 it won't be Cambridge or NAD. They don't make them.biggrin.gif
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post #13 of 69 Old 02-26-2014, 05:19 PM
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I'm not him but for 9.2 it won't be Cambridge or NAD. They don't make them.biggrin.gif

Well that narrows it down then.biggrin.gif Was thinking about a Denon 4520CI.
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post #14 of 69 Old 02-26-2014, 06:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Again, I have external amps..lots of them that are very good. All I care about is the prepro part of the receiver for under $2k.
I looked up the Anthem MRX 510 and 710 series, the only difference I saw was amplifier section.. Did I miss something?

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post #15 of 69 Old 02-26-2014, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
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Again, I have external amps..lots of them that are very good. All I care about is the prepro part of the receiver for under $2k.
I looked up the Anthem MRX 510 and 710 series, the only difference I saw was amplifier section.. Did I miss something?

No you did not miss anything. Give this a thought though. You want to use this as a pre-amp if I'm correct. Who makes better pre-amps that are as highly rated as Anthems? Should be an easy decision IMO. Read the reviews, go to a dealer and give a listen. Then make your decision.
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post #16 of 69 Old 02-26-2014, 06:29 PM
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Save a wad of money. This will do everything you need for $500 shipped. Yamaha 7065.
http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-HTR-7065-channel-receiver/dp/B00AZE78KQ
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post #17 of 69 Old 02-26-2014, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

Very poor sound quality.

That also goes for almost anything made by Onkyo, Pioneer, Yamaha, Denon, Sony, etc.

The only ones I will recommend are NAD and Cambridge Audio.

Arcam also makes some great receivers, but the prices are really high.
Look I've owned a lot of high end audio products from Audeze LCD-3 Headphones, HiFiMan headphones, countless high end amps and receivers and honestly while I do believe when moving from extremes of the spectrum to the opposite there are significant quality differences. I think for the most part as long as you are purchasing a relatively good unit with good build quality that you would have a difficult time picking up a serious difference in sound quality from the same speaker/headphone source. For instance, everyone here raves about Anthem MRX receivers on this site...now Im not saying they are bad receivers. But do I believe them to be worth 2 or 3 times as much as say a Denon X4000? I would have to say NO. Things such as gold plating the speaker posts I can understand. But for the majority of us who hardly use analog inputs anymore, gold plating those connectors just leads to unneeded additional manufacturing costs. This therefore drives the price up, and along with relatively low volumes of sales, which also inflates said price, we are now left with a comparable receiver, often times with less features, that costs astronomically more.
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post #18 of 69 Old 02-27-2014, 07:07 AM - Thread Starter
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What I am looking for:

-QUALITY OF SOUND for movies means more than anything else. I tend to like an aggressive soundtrack and aggressive surround sides and rear channels. I also like to feel immersed in a movie with a very wide soundstage.
-All digital inputs (All I need is 4-5 HDMI and 1 output... any more is just a bonus). I don't need or use analog inputs at all.
-HDMI 1.4 so I can pass thru 3D
-Headphone jack.. with surround processing thru the jack (thru my laptop I can use Razer Synapse and it sounds pretty good thru my Grado RS1 Headphones.. do receiver do the same?)
-Video processing or strong pass thru (I don't want to lose quality out to my Panasonic 65" plasma)
-Latest Codecs
-7.2 surround processing
-Room equalization Audyssey XT32 (minimum), YPAO, Anthem ARC, or similar http://hometheaterreview.com/automated-room-correction-explained/ I have dual subs although they are right next to each other in wall.I do like to tweak but it would be great to have a room correction system that does it right the first time and really expands the sound stage.
-I don't need internal amps at all. (but understand that by definition receivers have these)
-I also watch a good amount of VEVO music videos during parties. I have a 75 song playlist. So music does matter along with the 320 kbs MP3 music I have on my laptop.

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post #19 of 69 Old 02-27-2014, 07:17 AM
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A pre with the same features of a modern AV amp is going to cost. A lot.
A good 5 or 7 channel power amplifier will be around $2000.

You could get a basic AV receiver with pre-outs, then use a power amplifier.

I have a ATI amplifier myself. Can't afford a new processor with the same things a AV amp..

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

Bose Jewel speakers.

 

Jealous of my speakers?

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post #20 of 69 Old 02-27-2014, 07:25 AM
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The only affordable (as in not a £10,000) pre I can think of is Emotiva.

http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/processors

Audiolab 8200 is ok price but very light on features and connectivity.

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

Bose Jewel speakers.

 

Jealous of my speakers?

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post #21 of 69 Old 02-27-2014, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael James View Post

What I am looking for:

-QUALITY OF SOUND for movies means more than anything else. I tend to like an aggressive soundtrack and aggressive surround sides and rear channels. I also like to feel immersed in a movie with a very wide soundstage.
-All digital inputs (All I need is 4-5 HDMI and 1 output... any more is just a bonus). I don't need or use analog inputs at all.
-HDMI 1.4 so I can pass thru 3D
-Headphone jack.. with surround processing thru the jack (thru my laptop I can use Razer Synapse and it sounds pretty good thru my Grado RS1 Headphones.. do receiver do the same?)
-Video processing or strong pass thru (I don't want to lose quality out to my Panasonic 65" plasma)
-Latest Codecs
-7.2 surround processing
-Room equalization Audyssey XT32 (minimum), YPAO, Anthem ARC, or similar http://hometheaterreview.com/automated-room-correction-explained/ I have dual subs although they are right next to each other in wall.I do like to tweak but it would be great to have a room correction system that does it right the first time and really expands the sound stage.
-I don't need internal amps at all. (but understand that by definition receivers have these)
-I also watch a good amount of VEVO music videos during parties. I have a 75 song playlist. So music does matter along with the 320 kbs MP3 music I have on my laptop.

Yamaha A3030 has everything you want plus some. Anthem 510/710 also has everything you need plus some. Denon X4000/4520 same as others. Or you can be a guinea pig and wait for Emotiva's XMC1 it will also have everything you need minus the amps. It has been "coming out" for 3+ years. Pioneer Elite is also there. Marantz has three different models of pre-pros that will do what you need. Yamaha has it new version pre-pro that gets excellent reviews.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/ssps/ssps-reviews/yamaha-cx-a5000-11-1-ssp-surround-sound-processor.html
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post #22 of 69 Old 02-27-2014, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael James View Post

So my B&K Reference 70 finally died and so did the company. B&K reminds me of another company who stated they were in it for the long term, upgradeable boards, trade in programs, and yes, Made in the USA. well, I bought into it and regret it. I don't care if it is made in the US or not, I just want the best and thru a company that will stay in business. If its assembled or manufactured in the US, that's just a bonus.

So should I buy now or wait a little longer?

If I go now, Which would you suggest for under $2,000 msrp? As far as preamps/receivers, the differences between a preamp/processor and receiver seems to be scale of economies. Since they make so many receivers, their price point is about ½ of the preamp processor. Since I am using my own Sunfire Signature amps for running 7 channels, the internal amps don’t mean much if anything to me but the receivers come with them by default (obviously). 7.2 for my house is the most channels I need so the 9.1 and 11.1 channel receiver are a waste. Not to eliminate them in consideration just sort of a waste much like the built in amps on a Receiver. My wife would kill me if I added more speakers. I am using BG Radia speakers.. http://www.bgcorp.com/in-wall_table.html they made a custom sound bar using 3 SA-200's (LCR) sized to the Panasonic 65" VT60 and the side and rear channels are the BG Radia PD-8i http://www.bgcorp.com/in-wall_table.html Using a pair of in-wall Sonance Subs. Which are mounted in the front left corner of the room, side by side. http://www.sonance.com/files/downloads/file/CINEMA%20RETRO%20DATA%20SHEET.pdf. http://www.sonance.com/products/electronics/detail/623 I can only turn 1/2 way up..any louder and I will bring the roof down! Since I am no further than 4 feet from any amp to the receiver/preamp, I am not using XLR connections..should I be?



I am totally open to suggestions!!! One top consideration is the Denon x4000 ($1299 msrp). Maybe Marantz 7008 ($1999 msrp). Both have XT32 and I am running all digital inputs from Direct TV, PlayStation 3, Home Theater laptop. Thoughts on Anthem? What about Yamaha for a 7.2 or maybe 9.2 (even though I would not use the other 2 channels). Emotiva XMC-1 http://shop.emotiva.com/products/xmc-1 ?? Any others? XT32 is not the only game in town either.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated.

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When you say it's dead meaning how dead ? I've never had the cover off anything frm B&K. I like a challenge so if you're going to throw it away I'll take it and pay for the shipping.

Current owner of the last/best AmPro on the planet. The mighty 4600HD, and it's still running...better than Barco's, especially southern ones.
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post #23 of 69 Old 02-27-2014, 08:37 AM
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When you say it's dead meaning how dead ? I've never had the cover off anything frm B&K. I like a challenge so if you're going to throw it away I'll take it and pay for the shipping.
You can have my Ref20 if you want to pay for shipping. I think I may even have the original box.
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post #24 of 69 Old 02-27-2014, 09:01 AM - Thread Starter
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I just read the review on the Yamaha CX-A5000 and I am now wondering if the ESS SABRE DAC is a game changer?
Who else incorporates this DAC? Thoughts on the Marantz 7008 vs. Yamaha CX-A5000?

I am looking for a game changer of a preamp. I need something that is going to give me a wow over the B&K Reference 70.
If I have to go up to $3k msrp, I may want to do that if it is significantly better sounding/.

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post #25 of 69 Old 02-27-2014, 09:48 AM
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There's the Lexicon MC-14 and Anthem Statement processor but those are way over your budget.

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post #26 of 69 Old 02-27-2014, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael James View Post

I just read the review on the Yamaha CX-A5000 and I am now wondering if the ESS SABRE DAC is a game changer?
Who else incorporates this DAC? Thoughts on the Marantz 7008 vs. Yamaha CX-A5000?

I am looking for a game changer of a preamp. I need something that is going to give me a wow over the B&K Reference 70.
If I have to go up to $3k msrp, I may want to do that if it is significantly better sounding/.

I have not used one. However it gets great reviews. Order one from someone with a good return policy and try it out in your home to see if you get that wow feeling. As a matter of fact you can order any number of pre-pros from Crutchfield. Go to their site and do a compare on the ones they sell to try a specific model. They are an excellent online vendor with very helpful CS reps. Compare the pre-pros and then compare AVR's that they sell that you may be interested in also. They don't sell Anthems though. Those are dealer only AVR's and pre-pros. Same with Pioneer Elites.
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post #27 of 69 Old 02-27-2014, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael James View Post

I just read the review on the Yamaha CX-A5000 and I am now wondering if the ESS SABRE DAC is a game changer?
Who else incorporates this DAC? Thoughts on the Marantz 7008 vs. Yamaha CX-A5000?

I am looking for a game changer of a preamp. I need something that is going to give me a wow over the B&K Reference 70.
If I have to go up to $3k msrp, I may want to do that if it is significantly better sounding/.

Coming from a B&K Ref 50 S2 to the Yamaha CX-A5000 to me was beyond a WOW factor, the difference was extremly dramatic. No transient power "pops", no digital input changing "Pops" and the noise floor was non existant after switching to the Yamaha. I agree that buying a CX-A5000 from a dealer who will allow you to try it in home is the best route to take.

Yamaha CX-A5000, ATI AT 2007 Amp (7X200W), ATI AT 2004 Amp (4X200W)Klipsch RF 63's - Main, RB 61's - Front heights, RC-62 - Center, RS-62's - Surround, RS-52's - Rear Surround, 2 Rythmik DS-1510 DIY Subwoofers (With PEQ600XLR3 Amp) each connected with Antimode 8033S-II, Oppo BDP-95, MMF-7.1, Project Phono Box RS, XBox 360, XBox One
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post #28 of 69 Old 02-27-2014, 10:30 AM
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You know, AV Science sells Denon and Yamaha, probably others as well but those are the two I've been looking to buy. I talked to JD about receivers and he was very helpful and their prices were better than I expected.
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post #29 of 69 Old 02-27-2014, 10:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Geocab..which 2 are you referring to? Are you referring to the Denon x4000 and Yamaha CX-A5000? Do you have your own amps?

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post #30 of 69 Old 02-27-2014, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geocab View Post

You know, AV Science sells Denon and Yamaha, probably others as well but those are the two I've been looking to buy. I talked to JD about receivers and he was very helpful and their prices were better than I expected.

Yup… the quotes I've gotten have been the lowest I could find on new gear from an authorized dealer (cheaper in fact than a refurb unit with a square-trade warranty to fill the coverage gap in most cases).

"A wide screen just makes a bad film twice as bad. "
-Samuel Goldwyn

I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

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Marantz Sr7008 , Denon Avr X4000 7 2 Channel Home Theater Receiver , Emotiva Xmc 1 , Yamaha Cx A5000bl Aventage 11 2 Channel Av Pre Amplifier , Anthem Mrx510 , Anthem Mrx710
Gear in this thread - X4000 by PriceGrabber.com



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