2014 Pioneer and Elite lineup: HDMI 2.0 confirmed! - Page 2 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 4Likes
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-25-2014, 07:15 AM
Member
 
bamagrad03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Here's the official page/update: http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home
bamagrad03 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 07-09-2014, 09:21 AM
wse
AVS Special Member
 
wse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 7,045
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 578 Post(s)
Liked: 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
These are A/B amps. The yet to be announced SC-81, SC-85, SC-87, SC-89 will have the class-D amps.
Are the Class D3 amps any good? Also when will it be released?
wse is offline  
Old 07-09-2014, 09:54 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Ron Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Florida and West Virginia, USA
Posts: 5,964
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 208 Post(s)
Liked: 212
One limitation of this generation of Pioneer AVRs appears to be the version of HDCP they are using with their HDMI 2.0 inputs. I have not found where Pioneer specifies the version of HDCP they have implemented, but it has been reported that it is not the latest/current version, which is ver. 2.2 (released in 2012). I appears likely that when the Blu-ray UHD (4K) is released next year that HDCP 2.2 will be a requirement for supporting UHD/4K video. Thus this generation of Pioneer AVRs may not be compatible with future UHD/4K video sources and HDCP is normally implemented in hardware and not upgradable via firmware. As a side note the current generation of Sony UHD TVs and Sony's UHD/4K player all support HDCP 2.2.
carageuw likes this.

Ron Jones
Blog + Reviews + Articles: projectorreviews.com
Ron Jones is offline  
Old 07-09-2014, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
David Susilo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Markham, Canada
Posts: 9,663
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 332 Post(s)
Liked: 429
Class D3 will be harsh for the first 48 hours or so. After that period (yoou don't need to play anything, just turn it on for 48 hours or so) the harshness dissipates. You then can "calm" the remaining sibilance by setting the digital filter to "slow"

follow my A/V tweets @davidsusilo

ISF, THX, CEDIA, Control4 & HAA certified
Reviewer for TED, QAV, AUVI & DownUnder Audio Magazine

my (yet to be completed) BD list
my home theatre

David Susilo is offline  
Old 07-09-2014, 12:18 PM
wse
AVS Special Member
 
wse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 7,045
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 578 Post(s)
Liked: 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
Class D3 will be harsh for the first 48 hours or so. After that period (yoou don't need to play anything, just turn it on for 48 hours or so) the harshness dissipates. You then can "calm" the remaining sibilance by setting the digital filter to "slow"
Why is that? How does it compare to an amp like Parasound?
wse is offline  
Old 07-09-2014, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
David Susilo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Markham, Canada
Posts: 9,663
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 332 Post(s)
Liked: 429
All class D amps are llike that. Versus Parasound is better. I preffer the sound of MOSFET over Class D amps.

follow my A/V tweets @davidsusilo

ISF, THX, CEDIA, Control4 & HAA certified
Reviewer for TED, QAV, AUVI & DownUnder Audio Magazine

my (yet to be completed) BD list
my home theatre

David Susilo is offline  
Old 07-09-2014, 06:12 PM
wse
AVS Special Member
 
wse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 7,045
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 578 Post(s)
Liked: 376
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
All class D amps are llike that. Versus Parasound is better. I preffer the sound of MOSFET over Class D amps.
My problem is the heat generated with Class A/B in a small room 12 x13 x 9!

Plus to do thirteen speakers I would need the following

- (1) Parasound A31 = $3,300
- (4) Parasound A23 = $5,000
wse is offline  
Old 07-09-2014, 07:38 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
David Susilo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Markham, Canada
Posts: 9,663
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 332 Post(s)
Liked: 429
I'd go Parasound for the front L/R or L/C/R only. Then on the SC receiver, switch off the L/C/R power amp section so the power supply will have more power to power the rest of the speakers.

follow my A/V tweets @davidsusilo

ISF, THX, CEDIA, Control4 & HAA certified
Reviewer for TED, QAV, AUVI & DownUnder Audio Magazine

my (yet to be completed) BD list
my home theatre

David Susilo is offline  
Old 07-10-2014, 07:27 AM
AVS Special Member
 
oztech's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 7,662
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 93
I would try the amps in the AVR before buying external amps like most you may find them completely adequate .
oztech is online now  
Old 07-10-2014, 07:59 AM
Advanced Member
 
rprice54's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 517
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post
I would try the amps in the AVR before buying external amps like most you may find them completely adequate .
Ditto. I'm no audiophile, but I've got a nice system, $5k 7.1 surround sound speakers, and I couldn't tell a difference with the class D amps. I'm quite happy with the sound of the SC-75. I also had a Marantz 7008 to compare to, I returned that because I got the Pio on sale for $1200. I actually like the sound of the Pio better than the Marantz.
rprice54 is offline  
Old 07-10-2014, 09:00 AM
AVS Special Member
 
oztech's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 7,662
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by rprice54 View Post
Ditto. I'm no audiophile, but I've got a nice system, $5k 7.1 surround sound speakers, and I couldn't tell a difference with the class D amps. I'm quite happy with the sound of the SC-75. I also had a Marantz 7008 to compare to, I returned that because I got the Pio on sale for $1200. I actually like the sound of the Pio better than the Marantz.
I use to be old school nothing but Class A then Class A/B now Class D and if the source is good and everything is matched in reality I can't tell the difference except Class D seems to handle low impedance and dynamic loads better while using less power and producing less heat.
oztech is online now  
Old 07-15-2014, 09:54 AM
Senior Member
 
Chucka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Southern Connecticut
Posts: 319
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 21
If I were using full range L-C-R and Surround Speakers and choose to run these full range with NO SUB, will the LFE signal be routed to all of the full range speakers or only to the L-R output on these new Pioneer receivers?
Chucka is offline  
Old 07-20-2014, 05:20 AM
Advanced Member
 
rprice54's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 517
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Liked: 26
I'm seeing the 81/82 listed on the BestBuy website. Are these out already?
rprice54 is offline  
Old 07-21-2014, 08:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
smurraybhm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Down South
Posts: 2,009
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 424 Post(s)
Liked: 558
Pioneer Elite 85, 87 and 89 are up on Amazon with a 9/15 delivery date. Bigger news is you can now buy these from Amazon. Pioneer seems to finally authorized internet sellers like Amazon to sell the high-end Elites.
smurraybhm is offline  
Old 07-22-2014, 05:33 AM
Advanced Member
 
rprice54's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 517
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post
Pioneer Elite 85, 87 and 89 are up on Amazon with a 9/15 delivery date. Bigger news is you can now buy these from Amazon. Pioneer seems to finally authorized internet sellers like Amazon to sell the high-end Elites.
That is good news. Saves me a 2hr round trip and I don't have to deal with best buy knuckleheads.
rprice54 is offline  
Old 07-22-2014, 11:30 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Two thoughts

(1) I am wondering why the Pioneer SC-87-89 are not THX certified, and if the THX certification is important. Maybe that comes later in the release process?
(2) Pioneer has announced it is getting out of the home theater business. They say they will privatized that division and retain partial ownership. How will this move effect the consumer?

Last edited by Alanlee; 07-22-2014 at 11:31 AM. Reason: mispelling
Alanlee is offline  
Old 07-22-2014, 11:43 AM
AVS Special Member
 
smurraybhm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Down South
Posts: 2,009
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 424 Post(s)
Liked: 558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alanlee View Post
(1) I am wondering why the Pioneer SC-87-89 are not THX certified, and if the THX certification is important. Maybe that comes later in the release process?
(2) Pioneer has announced it is getting out of the home theater business. They say they will privatized that division and retain partial ownership. How will this move effect the consumer?
Answers - THX was dropped due to cost (explained in another thread by Chris Walker - Pioneer USA) benefit issue - in other words they had a budget and chose to spend it on other things like Atmos THX cert in my humble opinion is extremely overrated though people like the soundfields offered on receivers. As long as a receiver bench tests well I'm not worried about THX - see Denon as one of a number of examples.

Onkyo is the new owner of Pioneer. From everything I have read its business as usual.

This year's Elites look very strong and allowing Amazon to sell them is huge for those of us without a dealer or Magnolia near by. The last time I bought an Elite receiver it was under the table from a very reputable a/v seller - stupid to have to do business this way when the closest authorized dealer for me was 150 miles away. I am deciding between Denon and Pioneer regarding a new Atmos (ready) receiver with Pioneer looking to be the winner as of today. SC-87 looks like the sweet spot for me in regards to price/feature/performance. Look forward to reviews of both units coming later this fall.
smurraybhm is offline  
Old 07-22-2014, 08:37 PM
Newbie
 
gowingsgo1974's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by rprice54 View Post
I'm seeing the 81/82 listed on the BestBuy website. Are these out already?
Hi I just bought the sc81 tonight at a bb in michigan. I'd love to tell you how it is but I won't be using it for awhile till the basement is done.
gowingsgo1974 is offline  
Old 07-22-2014, 09:42 PM
Member
 
Slackjaw747's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Renton, WA
Posts: 55
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post
Pioneer Elite 85, 87 and 89 are up on Amazon.
Funny... they carried over a typo from the Pioneer website. The SC-89 is listed as having 7.2 channels...
Slackjaw747 is offline  
Old 07-23-2014, 11:13 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 0
I agree with your call on the SC-87

It appears the difference between the SC-87 and SC-89 is some power, a USB DAC, distance metering, and the ability to plug Cat-6 or 5e in the back of the SC-89 amp ( HDBaseT ). There is $1000 difference in the two amps; I think an HDBaseT system can be purchased for less than that. My computer has HDMI. Am I correct in assuming that I would be getting the same DAC by using HDMI to hook up my computer?
Alanlee is offline  
Old 07-24-2014, 03:06 AM
AVS Special Member
 
markus767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,473
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 923 Post(s)
Liked: 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
Class D3 will be harsh for the first 48 hours or so. After that period (yoou don't need to play anything, just turn it on for 48 hours or so) the harshness dissipates. You then can "calm" the remaining sibilance by setting the digital filter to "slow"
What changes in those 48 hours? The amp or your hearing? Most likely your hearing gets used to it. Amp performance changes could be measured.

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole
markus767 is offline  
Old 07-24-2014, 04:34 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
David Susilo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Markham, Canada
Posts: 9,663
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 332 Post(s)
Liked: 429
Read my post: just turn it on, you don't need to play anything. Getting used to what if you're not playing anything?

follow my A/V tweets @davidsusilo

ISF, THX, CEDIA, Control4 & HAA certified
Reviewer for TED, QAV, AUVI & DownUnder Audio Magazine

my (yet to be completed) BD list
my home theatre

David Susilo is offline  
Old 07-24-2014, 04:37 AM
AVS Special Member
 
markus767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,473
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 923 Post(s)
Liked: 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
Read my post: just turn it on, you don't need to play anything. Getting used to what if you're not playing anything?
Then the effect should be measurable. What changes in the first 48h?

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole
markus767 is offline  
Old 07-24-2014, 04:53 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
David Susilo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Markham, Canada
Posts: 9,663
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 332 Post(s)
Liked: 429
Once again you didn't read my post. How can you quote someone, critique it, but don't know what's written? As I posted "the harshness dissipates".

yes it's measurable, and no I'm not measuring it for you. Buy your own brand new (any brand) class D amp, measure it out of the box, run it for a couple of days straight, remeasure it. You'll literally see the high frequency response differs. Even product specialist of MBL (and I learned about MBL's recommendation long after my own finding in class D amps) suggest the buyer to run it, with or without music, for a couple of days straight to get rid of the edginess of the class D amps. Anthem suggests the same thing too (continuous run for a couple of days without music).

My advice? Read people's post carefully, and then comment on it. You clearly don't read the post and jump to conclusion. This is my last post responding to you as this is a common trait of your posts in various thread.

follow my A/V tweets @davidsusilo

ISF, THX, CEDIA, Control4 & HAA certified
Reviewer for TED, QAV, AUVI & DownUnder Audio Magazine

my (yet to be completed) BD list
my home theatre

David Susilo is offline  
Old 07-24-2014, 05:39 AM
AVS Special Member
 
markus767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,473
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 923 Post(s)
Liked: 362
I've asked a technical question. Not sure why you're acting like I've questioned your whole existence There's a difference between talking about an idea and talking about a person...

The reason why I've asked is this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
Buy your own brand new (any brand) class D amp, measure it out of the box, run it for a couple of days straight, remeasure it. You'll literally see the high frequency response differs.
I've never measured significant changes in frequency response of an amp in the first 48h. But then I didn't look for it specifically. This is the first time I've read someone claiming that frequency response of a class D amp changes within the first 48h.

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole
markus767 is offline  
Old 07-24-2014, 06:53 AM
Advanced Member
 
rprice54's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 517
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Liked: 26
[QUOTE=smurraybhm;25950954]

Onkyo is the new owner of Pioneer. From everything I have read its business as usual.
/QUOTE]

Is this for real?! If that's the case then I'll keep looking for my next AVR somewhere else. I'm one of the many who had multiple HDMI board failures on multiple replacement AVRs. I switched to Pio Elite hoping to get better reliability. Just sold my AVR getting ready to rebuild the theater room, and I had planned on getting the SC-85, but not if it's an Onkyo. No thanks.

I'm one of those folks who liked the THX sound modes. When I had a Marantz 7008 and SC-75 to compare side by side I felt like the THX cinema mode provided a more seamless front soundstage. That was one of my reasons for going with the Pio.

Oh well. Back to Marantz I guess.
rprice54 is offline  
Old 07-24-2014, 07:03 AM
AVS Special Member
 
smurraybhm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Down South
Posts: 2,009
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 424 Post(s)
Liked: 558
[quote=rprice54;26000682]
Quote:
Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post

Onkyo is the new owner of Pioneer. From everything I have read its business as usual.
/QUOTE]

Is this for real?! If that's the case then I'll keep looking for my next AVR somewhere else. I'm one of the many who had multiple HDMI board failures on multiple replacement AVRs. I switched to Pio Elite hoping to get better reliability. Just sold my AVR getting ready to rebuild the theater room, and I had planned on getting the SC-85, but not if it's an Onkyo. No thanks.

I'm one of those folks who liked the THX sound modes. When I had a Marantz 7008 and SC-75 to compare side by side I felt like the THX cinema mode provided a more seamless front soundstage. That was one of my reasons for going with the Pio.

Oh well. Back to Marantz I guess.
You are over reacting - they just closed the deal about 4 weeks ago and Onkyo has not had any impact on the build or design of this year's receivers. From what I read they will not going forward, maybe Chris Walker can give us more operational details once he knows more. I too suffered an Onkyo board failure, but the Elite SC-87 or Denon (5100?) will be in my HT later this year. With Atmos, those THX modes will not be relevant based on the comments from those who have heard it as well as its upmixing for none Atmos disks.
David Susilo likes this.

Last edited by smurraybhm; 07-25-2014 at 07:19 AM.
smurraybhm is offline  
Old 07-24-2014, 07:15 PM
Advanced Member
 
rprice54's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 517
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Maybe so. But Onkyo is the Walmart of the AV world. Cheap disposable junk. What Pioneer has to gain from them is beyond me- unless it's how to make an AVR as cheap as possible but still charge the same prices.

You're right, these latest receivers are probably fine, but I've been through Onkyo's tech and warranty 'support' and I'd just rather not go there again if I were to develop problems down the road.
rprice54 is offline  
Old 07-24-2014, 07:21 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
David Susilo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Markham, Canada
Posts: 9,663
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 332 Post(s)
Liked: 429
Just because PART of Pioneer have been bought by Onkyo doesn't mean Pioneer will go down in quality.

Onkyo also purchased Gibson severall years ago, I don't notice in quality change in Gibson products.

follow my A/V tweets @davidsusilo

ISF, THX, CEDIA, Control4 & HAA certified
Reviewer for TED, QAV, AUVI & DownUnder Audio Magazine

my (yet to be completed) BD list
my home theatre

David Susilo is offline  
Old 07-25-2014, 06:47 AM
Senior Member
 
Chucka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Southern Connecticut
Posts: 319
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
Just because PART of Pioneer have been bought by Onkyo doesn't mean Pioneer will go down in quality.

Onkyo also purchased Gibson severall years ago, I don't notice in quality change in Gibson products.
I believe it was Gibson who purchased 51% of Onkyo in 2012.
David Susilo likes this.
Chucka is offline  
 

Tags
Pioneer Elite Sc 75 Receiver
Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off