Banana plugs touched, screwed up receiver - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 12 Old 03-16-2014, 04:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Banana plugs on my right front speaker touched and apparently have done some damage to my Pioneer vsx-70 receiver. The receiver is about 10 weeks old, and has barely been used.

 

I just bought Energy CF-70's, popped in the plugs and it sounded great.  But then I accidentally jarred the speakers and the plugs touched.  Now any speaker I try on that channel crackles badly.  Since I screwed up, not sure if this will be covered under warranty. And even if it is, according to Best Buy, it should take about 3 weeks to get the receiver back.

 

I'm new to home theater, and have limited audio skill set.  I've posted this on couple of forums without much luck.  I'm hoping some experts here can advise me how to resolve this.

 

 - Is this fixable? Or, have I completely torched the receiver, and need to replace it with a new one?
 - Is this typically covered under warranty? Or should I just look for a service center nearby that can get it done more quickly, though I'll have to pay?
 - Is this something easy to fix - maybe something I can do myself?

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks in advance.

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post #2 of 12 Old 03-16-2014, 06:13 PM
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For an avr like this why didn't BB just take it back and exchange it? I also wonder why its protection didn't kick to protect it from something like this. Take it back and tell them its faulty and you want an exchange. What you did should not have junked that AVR.
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post #3 of 12 Old 03-16-2014, 07:16 PM
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I don't really have an answer to your questions. But when wiring anything, always leave some slack on one side.

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post #4 of 12 Old 03-16-2014, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Brent View Post

Banana plugs on my right front speaker touched and apparently have done some damage to my Pioneer vsx-70 receiver. The receiver is about 10 weeks old, and has barely been used.

I just bought Energy CF-70's, popped in the plugs and it sounded great.  But then I accidentally jarred the speakers and the plugs touched.  Now any speaker I try on that channel crackles badly.  Since I screwed up, not sure if this will be covered under warranty. And even if it is, according to Best Buy, it should take about 3 weeks to get the receiver back.

I'm new to home theater, and have limited audio skill set.  I've posted this on couple of forums without much luck.  I'm hoping some experts here can advise me how to resolve this.

 - Is this fixable? Or, have I completely torched the receiver, and need to replace it with a new one?

 - Is this typically covered under warranty? Or should I just look for a service center nearby that can get it done more quickly, though I'll have to pay?

 - Is this something easy to fix - maybe something I can do myself?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks in advance.

I did *exactly* the same to a surround channel on my VSX-1122-K. $100 to replace an output transistor at a [relatively] nearby Pioneer repair location. Of course, I spent several days believing it was the speaker, ordering a replacement driver... never thinking to swap speakers to see if the issue followed the channel or the speaker. So you're already ahead of the game!

I wasn't under warranty, otherwise it would have been free. I think it will be faster for you to avoid going through Best Buy. Any authorized Pioneer repair center should honor the warranty.

Chill... look up the nearest repair center on their website.....
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post #5 of 12 Old 03-17-2014, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Brent View Post

Banana plugs on my right front speaker touched and apparently have done some damage to my Pioneer vsx-70 receiver. The receiver is about 10 weeks old, and has barely been used.

I just bought Energy CF-70's, popped in the plugs and it sounded great.  But then I accidentally jarred the speakers and the plugs touched.  Now any speaker I try on that channel crackles badly.  Since I screwed up, not sure if this will be covered under warranty. And even if it is, according to Best Buy, it should take about 3 weeks to get the receiver back.

It is my opinion based on decades of experience with audio gear that any amplifier that is damaged by a casual short circuit is by definition defective either by design or by random failure of parts.

Any well designed modern amplifier should have ample reserves to its circuit design and built in protection circuits to survive a simple fault such as a temporary short of speaker leads.

The Service manual for the VSX-70 lists its various forms of protection of its output circuits:

(1) "To detect high DC output from amplifier damage (defect status)."

(2) "A process to protect speakers (for protection of connected external devices)."

(3) "To detect overloading (abnormal status) with low-load driving or a short circuit of the speaker terminals (for protection of the amplifier)."

(4) "To detect overheat of inner temperature"

The above are direct quotes. What you did seems to be covered in (3).

This is not unsual. The above are the usual kinds of protections that one finds in modern power amps of all kinds and in all price ranges.
Quote:
I'm new to home theater, and have limited audio skill set.  I've posted this on couple of forums without much luck.  I'm hoping some experts here can advise me how to resolve this.

I'm not an expert but I can obtain and correctly analyze relevant manufacturer documentation at times. This question seem to have a clear answer, direct from Pioneer's engineering staff!
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 - Is this fixable? Or, have I completely torched the receiver, and need to replace it with a new one?

Just about anything that goes wrong with a receiver can be repaired. It is just a matter of costs and benefits.
Quote:
 - Is this typically covered under warranty? Or should I just look for a service center nearby that can get it done more quickly, though I'll have to pay?

I don't know why you would need to pay anything if the receiver is under the manufacturer's warranty.
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 - Is this something easy to fix - maybe something I can do myself?

Nope. I've done it many times and an effective safe repair takes experience, tools and parts that are not readily available to ordinary people. Also, its not your fault - the AVR is supposed to handle this sort of thing by at worst shutting itself down temporarily until the short is removed. To be at fault by permanently damaging this AVR you would have to do something crazy like plugging it into a speaker output into an AC wall socket.
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post #6 of 12 Old 03-17-2014, 10:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom52 View Post

For an avr like this why didn't BB just take it back and exchange it? I also wonder why its protection didn't kick to protect it from something like this. Take it back and tell them its faulty and you want an exchange. What you did should not have junked that AVR.

Past return date, so the best they could do was send it out to be serviced.  They couldn't even tell me if it would be covered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WMConey View Post


I did *exactly* the same to a surround channel on my VSX-1122-K. $100 to replace an output transistor at a [relatively] nearby Pioneer repair location. Of course, I spent several days believing it was the speaker, ordering a replacement driver... never thinking to swap speakers to see if the issue followed the channel or the speaker. So you're already ahead of the game!

I wasn't under warranty, otherwise it would have been free. I think it will be faster for you to avoid going through Best Buy. Any authorized Pioneer repair center should honor the warranty.

Chill... look up the nearest repair center on their website.....

Thanks WMConey.  That's why I didn't want to go through Best Buy - I figured if I brought it to a local service center it would be much quicker.

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post #7 of 12 Old 03-17-2014, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Arny - thank you for that really insightful answer; especially the service manual quotes.  This gives me ammunition, just in case.

I'll bring it in tomorrow and post back in case anyone is interested.

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post #8 of 12 Old 03-18-2014, 07:38 AM
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I purchased several Monoprice speaker wall plates. On the front side you can connect bare wire and screw down the binding post, or use banana plugs. I notice that the two binding posts are dangerously too close, when using banana plugs, (that is if the gold plated exterior posts are in fact "hot"). If this is the case, why do they make them this way?? I folded a piece of paper and slid it in between the posts. Of course one could slip a rubber sleve around the post as well.

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post #9 of 12 Old 03-18-2014, 05:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Tangent issue - I'm now looking for banana plugs with insulated jackets, so I don't have to worry about this happening again in future.  I found some Monster plugs but they are ridiculously expensive ($20 per plug).

Can anyone recommend inexpensive plug with non-conductive body (to prevent shorts)?

Thanks.

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post #10 of 12 Old 03-18-2014, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Brent View Post

Tangent issue - I'm now looking for banana plugs with insulated jackets, so I don't have to worry about this happening again in future.  I found some Monster plugs but they are ridiculously expensive ($20 per plug).
Can anyone recommend inexpensive plug with non-conductive body (to prevent shorts)?
Thanks.

http://sewelldirect.com/Sewell-Deadbolt-Banana-Plugs-1-Pair.asp

http://sewelldirect.com/Sewell-Deadbolt-Banana-Plugs-12-Pair.asp
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post #11 of 12 Old 03-18-2014, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Brent View Post

Tangent issue - I'm now looking for banana plugs with insulated jackets, so I don't have to worry about this happening again in future.  I found some Monster plugs but they are ridiculously expensive ($20 per plug).
Can anyone recommend inexpensive plug with non-conductive body (to prevent shorts)?
Thanks.

Well, I don't have a banana plug recommendation for you, but instead, would suggest to simply terminate bare wire.

In 20 years I have yet to hear a convincing argument as to why it's beneficial to add another point of potential failure to an avr/amplifer loudspeaker connection in a typical home scenario. If I had a dollar for everytime I heard of banana plugs popping out and shorting though I'm certain I could end up with a nice steak dinner.

To a guy swapping out gear weekly I guess they might make some sense, to the rest of us going months or YEARS with the connections, where's the upside? Looks prettier?

If that's the case whatever helps you sleep at night I guess.

Sorry and good luck with the repair.

James
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post #12 of 12 Old 03-18-2014, 11:06 PM - Thread Starter
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